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Putting PCs on hold over piracy

By CNET News.com Staff
Oct. 6, 2006 11:40 AM PST

In the past few years, Microsoft has stepped up its efforts to make sure that the people who use Windows have actually paid for it. Now, with Vista, the company plans to take more drastic antipiracy measures.

People who install Vista on a PC themselves will have 30 days to complete the process of assuring Microsoft that they have a legitimate license to use the product. If they ignore warning messages during that period, then they will be prompted to activate the operating system online or by phone or to enter a product key. If they don't choose to do these, then Vista will run in "reduced functionality" mode. This lets people use a Web browser for an hour, after which time the system logs them out.

The new technology is part of Microsoft's "Software Protection Platform," which will be included in all future products. It's a notch higher than the Windows Genuine Advantage antipiracy tool introduced in XP in July 2005, which required users to validate the operating system before they could download add-on applications.

To find out what people on the street make of it, we asked our Vista Views panel, made up of ordinary readers, this question: Is Microsoft going too far in locking people out of their PCs to counter use of pirated software?


Simon Felix

Simon Felix

No, that's their right. If you want to use commercial software, you have to pay for it. But it won't make a big difference--I don't know of a single unactivated Windows XP installation.

A bigger issue is the decision that even volume licenses require activation. I bet that means headaches for Vista-deploying administrators. Especially when the activation/WGA servers fail again.
Simon Felix works in theoretical computer science, application programming and low-level hardware coding for a small engineering office in Switzerland, where he is writing his diploma thesis. He was a bronze medal winner at the International Olympiad in Informatics 2003 and has developed his own operating system.



Barb Bowman

Barb Bowman

Ultimately, we all pay the price for piracy in the cost of software we buy. The number of innocent victims who buy white box machines from the small number of unscrupulous small system builders is tiny. The typical end-user will get a legit system. The remedy for a pirated copy is to buy a legit copy or obtain one from the vendor that sold the system. The lockout CAN be fixed.

Barb Bowman is a product development manager for Comcast high-speed Internet who also writes about technology for the Microsoft Windows XP Expert Zone and the Microsoft Vista community.


Mark Casazza

Mark Casazza

Microsoft is going way too far with all of their "antipiracy" efforts. They currently have a larger than 40 percent error rate with their WGA (Windows Genuine (dis)Advantage) program, and I seriously doubt this program will work any better. No DRM system works for very long (something Microsoft should have already learned playing "hit the mole" with the FairUse4WM hacks of their Windows Media DRM). The true "pirates" will be able to crack any DRM system Microsoft could put in place, so all this technology will do is make the entire operating system less useful (and hence less valuable) for "legitimate" users.

At the same time, and what I think is even more important, Microsoft is forgetting that they don't own the computer their operating system resides on. The new "antipiracy" technology in Vista, as well as the WGA "patch" they're trying to foist off on customers, is nothing more or less than spyware! I bought my computer; it belongs to me, not to Microsoft. There is no way I'm going to have MY computer reporting back to Microsoft on a regular basis as if I were a criminal reporting to my parole officer! What honest person wants to be insulted that way? And how long will honest people put up with a company that does treat them that way?

Microsoft is continuing to make Vista less and less attractive as an upgrade option, and they certainly aren't providing any reason to stop using XP.

Mark Casazza is the director of academic information for the City University of New York.



Robert McLaws

Robert McLaws

Wait a second. This feature is already in Windows XP. At least Vista will let you browse for an hour...XP locks you out entirely. Seems like the only people this would affect are...pirates. As long as Microsoft improves the accuracy of the checking (I haven't seen any issues on the prerelease builds), I don't have a problem with it.

Once again, the media is making a far bigger deal of this than necessary. I wish people would focus on the thousands of other things that have been changed/improved in Vista, versus trying to make up things that might be controversial.
Robert McLaws is an IT consultant, community leader and Vista enthusiast. He has been running Vista enthusiast site Longhornblogs.com since 2002.



Wallace Wang

Wallace Wang

Microsoft's antipiracy tactics may seem a bit too far, but they have the right to do whatever they want with their software, and if people keep buying it knowing these conditions are attached to it, then nobody should be complaining. Most people will need to buy a new PC to run Vista anyway, and that will come preactivated, so buyers of new PCs won't notice this antipiracy technique one bit.

While stopping piracy may help Microsoft financially in the short term, is it really helping them in the long term? First of all, the cost of product activation and antipiracy measures needs to be weighed against the potential financial loss due to piracy. Second, and more importantly, Microsoft has to consider what indirect value piracy might actually have in spreading Windows to more people.

Start cutting off software piracy, and most people in Third World countries will either find a way to pirate copies of Vista anyway, or just switch to free alternatives like Linux. So Microsoft's antipiracy tactics could have an indirect effect in driving more people to Linux and in the long run, hurt Windows' future, especially overseas.

Wallace Wang is a freelance computer journalist and author whose books include "Microsoft Office for Dummies" and "Steal This Computer Book."



Jason Cornell

Absolutely not. Microsoft spends billions of dollars in R&D each year and has thousands of employees all around the world making, supporting and selling these products. Just because software is not something you can see and touch doesn't mean you shouldn't have to pay for it. They are actually being nice by allowing you to run in reduced mode for 30 days, as they could lock you out immediately for running stolen software.
Jason Cornell has more than seven years of consulting experience, primarily in Microsoft software. He has worked on design and integration of Windows-based set-ups for health care, higher education and media customers.



Perry Reed

Perry Reed

I'd love to say that Microsoft has every right to stop people from pirating their software and that removing functionality from pirated copies of Vista is a good idea. I'd love to say that, but in the real world things are never quite that simple.

My guess is that more than likely some problem will crop up, like valid versions of Vista disabling themselves in certain situations, or some very simple workaround being discovered to circumvent the antipiracy features, or just a lot of fear and complaining about what could go wrong, and Microsoft will quietly drop the whole idea.
Perry Reed works by day in software QA, and in his spare time, he hosts The Tablet PC Show podcast.


Brian Clarke

Brian Clarke

If you don't like what Microsoft does to your illegal version of Windows, then use Linux.
Brian Clarke, a student at Shippensburg University, says he has reinstalled Windows more times than he cares to remember.



Bill Johnson

Software is one of the most valuable technologies of the Information Age, running everything from PCs to the Internet. Yet, because software has become such an important productivity tool, the illegal copying and distribution of it persists globally. In fact, in the United States, one in four software programs is unlicensed. I think this is a "step-forward" for Microsoft in its efforts to take on piracy.

Although some would probably think that Microsoft is going overboard with this one, I honestly believe that this will only help further prevention of piracy in the technology world. Considering Microsoft and some "higher-priced" software are globally pirated, it is only right that Microsoft takes on a new plan for preventing piracy.

If Microsoft wants to protect its investment with Windows Vista, then truthfully, this is the only way, and in my mind, it's a good way to start.
Bill Johnson is a Minnesota-based computer technician and journalist who also runs a Microsoft Windows-related community called AplusDownloads.



John Kneeland

John Kneeland

As much as I'd like to think that pretty much everything Microsoft has done as of late is a colossal screw-up (and between Origami, SoapBox, Zune, and Vista in general, there is certainly no shortage of MS screwing up to reinforce my sentiment), I'm afraid I'm in complete agreement with them on doing whatever is necessary to prevent people from stealing the products they spent billions to make. No postindustrial economy is going to work, if we fail to see that digital theft is just as unacceptable for society as its analog counterpart.

John Kneeland is an undergraduate at the University of Pennsylvania, where he is majoring in international relations and East Asian studies.



Kevin Faaborg

Kevin Faaborg

While I think this may be within reason for Microsoft to do, I don't agree with it. Just like the WGA that is in XP now, "normal" customers will be the ones affected and the "pirates" will find their own workarounds to it.

I have known several people that had been locked out of computer updates due to getting their copy of Windows XP from a site that was giving out copied XP Keys but original CDs so the customers didn't know it was pirated. They are innocent bystanders that are having enough issues with Windows not working correctly, and now they have to deal with this as well?

I think while Microsoft COULD do it, and if this was a perfect world, it would work with no flaws, this isn't a perfect world and this is going to cause more problems than it solves.

Kevin Faaborg works in basic hardware and software guidance for a large financial corporation, but he has experience in more computer sales-based jobs.



Josh Phillips

Josh Phillips

It is a tough problem, no doubt. Microsoft had to do something about the piracy. Unfortunately, the best that they could come up with burdens the very companies that were legitimate to begin with.

Josh Phillips is an IT professional based in California.



Keith D. Vogt

Microsoft should have done this years ago. If I develop a product and someone steals it from me, why wouldn't I want to figure out a way to keep a thief from stealing it from me?

More software developers should do the same.
Keith D. Vogt has been using computers since the late '80s and lives in California.



Wayne Sharpe

Wayne Sharpe

I think its just fine that they are doing this. This hopefully will curb pirated copies, although I would imagine someone will find a way to get around it.
Wayne Sharpe is based in Ontario, Canada.



David Price

David Price

I'm not sure this is legal.

Unless MS sells the operating system with a prominent notice on the outside of the box and in every ad that says "Fully Functional For 30 Days" they may run afoul of warranty laws.

I believe I would have the right to return the product (OS and/or computer) as not fulfilling its advertised functions and demand a full refund. I could do this every 30 days.

Also, MS may run afoul of other laws (product tampering, etc.) if they disable a third-party Web browser.

I think the group-think at MS has lost touch with customer-expectation reality on this one.
David Price is a senior accident analyst at one of the U.S.'s top research and development national laboratories and an award-winning nature photographer.



Joe Rud

I believe Microsoft is a business just like any other, albeit larger and more successful, and is entitled to the rights and privacy of their products and services. I don't like the fact the Microsoft has decided to make things potentially more difficult for the end-user, but that is their choice. I also feel that if they made their products more affordable for individual consumers that there would be less software piracy.
Joe Rud is a computer industry professional from from St. Louis Park, Minn.



Barty Lambert

This move could be a great move, if implemented properly--meaning that genuine customers get advantages, whilst pirates suffer. If, however, the general user finds that for some odd reason their PC won't activate and they get locked out, causing them to have to phone Microsoft, it's only going to make it worse. There needs to be an easy channel for purchasing a legal activation key, if yours is found to be invalid.
Barty Lambert is a high-school student who lives in London.



David Dawson

David Dawson

No, Microsoft isn't going too far. They're well within their rights to do it, and I strongly feel that they are doing it in a way that is fair and is well-implemented. I only wish other features of their OS would be so predictable.

Seriously though, I haven't yet heard a credible story about how this has locked out a person who has purchased their own copy of Windows.

David Dawson is the team leader for research and development at Community IT Innovators (CITI), an organization providing technology support to socially responsible organizations in the Washington, DC area.



Shauna Gordon

Shauna Gordon

Considering the issues Microsoft has had with XP's WGA software deeming legitimate copies as pirated, I think locking users out is going a little too far, especially for the ones that are buying computers now with the intention of upgrading to Vista when it comes out. This issue will show itself as a threat mostly to businesses.

"It has nothing to do with license counting right now, but companies will need to expend time and effort and some money to administer this, in the name of helping Microsoft recoup revenue lost to piracy," says Michael Silver. I read this and my first thought was 'so, Microsoft expects its business consumers to spend more of their money so Microsoft doesn't have to lose as much money to piracy.' Where's the logic in this? Have Microsoft's execs lost all their business sense? Or have they just become so money-hungry that they're willing to destroy their own business and consumer base to make a couple extra bucks?

Shauna Gordon is pursuing university studies in computer information systems in Columbus, Ohio.

The Vista Views panel is being brought together by CNET News.com to discover what people on the street think about Microsoft's new operating system.

We're looking for a range of perspectives--from beta testers to business buyers to home PC owners.

Interested in joining the panel pool? Here's how it works:

Whenever key Vista news breaks, we'll e-mail a question to contributors. Sometimes, we'll ask a yes/no question and use the answers for a simple poll. Other times, we'll look for more in-depth feedback on Vista events. It doesn't matter whether you send us two pages or two sentences--we value your comments. And if you don't have an opinion on a particular story, or you don't have time to respond, that's fine too.

The feedback will often reach our readers. Our writers may quote panel remarks in stories. Or we may pull together comments--your two cents--in an article of their own. Occasionally, we'll ask contributors to take part in a weekly podcast to discuss their views with News.com editors and industry experts.

We want to know what our readers think, as Microsoft gets ready for one of its most important launches in years. If you haven't signed up yet, send an e-mail to us at vista-views@cnet.com.


More panel feedback
Story: Will Vista stall Net traffic?

Reader comment from Brian Scates:

"Should Vista include IPv6 support, but not enable it, the driving force in desktop computing in the world would be hampering the worldwide adoption of a needed Internet infrastructure upgrade."

Read more Vista panel comments on this topic here.


Story: Leopard nipping at Vista's heels

Reader comment from Callum Jones:

"I think nothing should be copied--it just gives Apple fans another thing to point and laugh about. With MS doing that, we would be flooded with too many forum threads about Leopard vs. Vista. MS should sit down and focus on what they need to create, not re-create."

Read more Vista panel comments on this topic here.


Story: Bloggers to Microsoft: Take your time with Vista

Reader comment from Wallace Wang:

"We've been waiting over five years already for the successor to Windows XP, so we might as well wait a few more months for Microsoft to ship a secure, reliable operating system."

Read more Vista panel comments on this topic here.


Story: Symantec sees an Achilles' heel in Vista

Reader comment from Brian Clarke:

"Symantec needs to find a better business model than fear-mongering and profiting off of insecure operating systems from Microsoft."

Read more Vista panel comments on this topic here.


Story: Gates: 20 percent chance of Vista delay

Reader comment from Robert McLaws:

"Everyone has complained for years that Microsoft doesn?t listen to its customers. So why now is everyone complaining when they finally DO start listening?"

Read more Vista panel comments on this topic here.


Story: Gates to bow out at Microsoft

Reader comment from John Kneeland:

"Ideally, it would mean that Microsoft will focus less on adding new junk and instead focus on making the existing junk work well."

Read more Vista panel comments on this topic here.

Related News
Special coverage
Piecing together Vista
All the latest on the Windows update.


Videos
Peek at Vista
CNET Reviews:
Peek at Vista

New features are designed to appeal to nonbusiness users. February 22, 2006


A view of Vista
A view of Vista
Windows' chief answers questions from News.com readers. January 27, 2006



Blog
The latest Windows blog postings on News.com.
Credits

Design: Gautama Swamy
Production: Kristina Wood


Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (40 Comments)
Copy protection software is futile...mostly.
by Methuss October 6, 2006 1:10 PM PDT
Having written copy protection software myself in the 1990s I can tell you that just about every corporate software creator has simply lost their way when it comes to copy protection measures.

Back then the objective was to make it difficult to pirate the software but it was a foregone conclusion that eventually the protections would be circumvented. Profit models were built on the assumption the software would eventually be copied and profits were estimated based on that. The protections were made to prevent the layman from pirating the software thereby protecting the majority of the profits.

Nowadays corporate pin-heads think they can come up with something that will stop all copying. They are smokin weed if they think this is even remotely possible. Creating ever more complex copy mechanisms to try and keep out the professional pirates is not only futile, but destined to eventually backlash against the company when normal consumers get overly fed-up with it.

Learn a lesson from the past corporates.
Reply to this comment
When I buy Software it should work. Period.
by Renegade Knight October 6, 2006 2:35 PM PDT
Most of the commentators are right and wrong. Yes Microsoft can do what it wants. But that doesn't stop what it wants to do from being a huge PITA. When MS stops supporting Vista and Vista is a legacy application all the computers out there become landfill fodder. If you happen to have a legacy application that works on Vista and not on what comes next. You are just stuck. The software doesn't work, Vista doesn't work, the computer doesn't work and the entire investment is wasted. Yeah that makes me a fan.

Right now I have Win 95 Legacy applications and Dos Legacy applications that work. I can re-install those programs on computers and they work. Just like they should. If I can't connect to the MS server though on XP...the software is worthless. Symantec recently drove this point home. I crashed my computer and re-formated it. When I intalled their software it connected online then told me I had a problem. Problem? I paid for it! I called and they asked me to send in my Disks, Reciepts, and everything. Fine, but they didn't pony up any software to leave my internet security gap covered in the mean time. So I switched products.

If Vista is too much of a PITA, maybe I will look at Linux.
Reply to this comment
My opinion is this... (please read it's a good one, promis!)
by Heebee Jeebies October 6, 2006 3:33 PM PDT
If Microsoft has not used it powers as monopoly to kill any other viable OS so that if I wished I could choose a non-Microsoft OS to use and still have access to Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc. Then use Microsoft has the right to protect its property from theft.

However, Microsoft did use its 100% monopoly on PCs to kill all other operating systems. So our only choice is Windows. Being that they stripped our rights from us I feel it is only fair that the governments of the world strip Microsoft's rights to protect against piracy from them.

As it stands Microsoft is getting its cake and eating it too. But, then our own US government proved themselves impedent when dealing with Microsoft's monopoly the first time so I don't see anything changing. Maybe we need a nice large expensive class action law suite. One that would strip Microsoft of the billions they use to fend of other legal challenges.

If I had a viable choice I would dump Microsoft in a heart beat.

Robert
Reply to this comment
Microsoft has the right - but it is all wrong
by davidwb October 6, 2006 4:00 PM PDT
Microsoft provides a product and those who find it valuable
should pay for it. It really is as simple as that - there are lots of
justifications for pirating software but none are valid. The
software is over priced? There are alternatives? It is buggy?
There are alternatives. You'd never buy it anyway so Microsoft
loses nothing - disingenuous. If it is on your computer pay for
it. Having said that, Microsoft is foolish to implement this
system. It is a waste of their resources, a drain on everyone who
is forced to use it, and ultimately futile.

The simple fact is that any kind of anti-piracy system can be
broken. Anyone who looks hard enough (and how hard is it to
boot up your browser and search in Google?) can find a crack or
serial number or work around for virtually any anti-piracy
system. Resources a company should be spending on improving
its product simply gets thrown away on trying to keep up with
the crackers and sharers.

But what's worse, as the anti-piracy systems become more
draconian they inconvenience legitimate users. This isn't a good
thing. It pushes users to look for alternatives and the company
loses more income.

Here's my story: My PC became unstable so I did what most
experienced Windows users would do - wiped and reinstalled
WinXP which forced a new activation. The instability continued
so I swapped out memory and then later I removed my video
card. That changed my computer enough that I had to activate
again. The instability remained and since I'd been thinking about
upgrading anyway I bought a new motherboard. Activation
number three was refused so I called Microsoft....where the
customer service representative delivered a lecture about
software piracy. I repeated my story pointing out that my copy of
WinXP didn't come bundled with a computer, it was legal, and
installed on only one computer. It had been activated several
times over a period of 5 days because I was experiencing
problems. The service rep (begin thinking of a bull servicing a
cow) baldly stated that activation existed to stop piracy and I
should own up and buy a new copy and he denied my request to
speak to a superior.

In frustration I hung up and called again hoping to get someone
else. I did and this person was equally rude but at least she 'gave
me the benefit of the doubt' but told me I shouldn't expect
another. I activated and I'm still using the computer. But
Microsoft won't get an upgrade to Vista from me. No way in
hades.
Reply to this comment
Rights? Power? Max Profit?
by imhodudes October 6, 2006 8:53 PM PDT
Microsoft cares zero about rights, fairness, etc. They have and will wreck any company that stands in the way of their owning as much of the chokepoints of human knowledge and commerce as they possibly can, employing some amount of innovation and a huge amount of monopolistic manipulation to this end.

Microsoft's claim that they are concerned about piracy is only partially true. They would give away Vista and Office if they had to - yes, for free - to maintain a monopoly on the desktops of as much of humanity as they can. Watch - if Linux ever becomes a serious competitor, they will under price Linux, even if it is free, for the opportunity to place links on a billion+ desktops to their marketing partners. Same as they did with Internet Explorer when Netscape became free. Same as they give away free anti-virus, free anti-spyware, whatever it takes to break the backs of competitors.

It is limited "piracy" that has allowed Office and Windows to keep out low-priced competitors. As long as people who can't afford MS can sneak a few copies onto their machines, they'll continue to keep the high-priced packages instead of investing in Microsoft's low-priced or free competitors. If folks can't sneak a few copies at all because MS really decides (as they could have at least a decade ago) to make copy protection iron-clad, masses of folks would drop MS, Adobe, etc. very quickly, and those monopolists would suddenly be faced with real competition.

It has always been the small competitors of MS, not MS itself, who have suffered (lost money, lost their companies) due to piracy of MS's software, not Microsoft. Microsoft knows this very well, of course. Every pirated copy of Office is a copy of Open Office that doesn't get established in some corporation; every pirated copy of Windows is one less Linux installation that might serve as the seed for en masse replacement of Windows in some company or municipality.

It will be really interesting to see if and for how long Microsoft could really stick to an enforced near-zero-piracy policy. My guess is that if they do, they will have to lower their prices even below the near give-away prices they charge Dell et al, in order to compete with increasingly sophisticated free and functional O/S's and office applications. They can't afford many repeats of Munich - a whole major municipal government that has tired of tithing Microsoft for the right to do public business and has switched to Linux.

Microsoft is first and foremost a monopolist, and will do whatever it takes to stay on the majority of desktops, if they have to lay off half their people and give away their software to do it - which they may have to do if they get serious about preventing piracy. It's an "open" market - for a monopolist like MS big enough to give away anything for free that a competitor might have the audacity to sell to try to make a living.

So in reality, GWA and the spyware built into Vista are aimed not at obtaining a return on investment for Windows, but to maintain control of what does and does not appear on a billion desktops. That's the prize, not software licensing fees.

RW
Reply to this comment
PC privacy VS. Microsoft
by phyxer944 October 7, 2006 4:36 AM PDT
I read all the blogs about this privacy issue, and quite frankly am amazed at the sheer stupidity and lack of guts most of you people show!
MICROSOFT is a company--with no rights to install or limit use of any software in a private computer, period!
For the most part, when a person buys any off brand computer, he risks getting pirated software without knowing it, and then HE gets punished by a private company for doing so!!! NOT GOOD!!!
Time for a reality check people---This is a violation of personal freedom, and not for your own good, it's for the good of MICROSOFT ONLY.
It will not be used outside of the USA, and will not be persued beyond possibly a few test cases, for the purposes of creating media hype and a fear factor in the public.
I for one, would fight it in court at every possible level, but sadly, my pockets are not as deep as MICROSOFT pockets, so I would lose, but in the long run so would MICROSOFT from the bad publicity it will create.
All of you that think it's ok are fools, yes, fools--you follow like sheep, allowing one bit of freedom after another slowly get taken away, without a protest, not even a wimper.
MICROSOFT IS NOT A GOD, NOR IS IT A GOVERNMENT--IT'S A BUSINESS, AND GOOD AT IT'S PURPOSE IN LIFE--AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DICTATE THE RULES, BUT BE FORCED TO FOLLOW THE RULES DICTATED BY THE PEOPLE--AS 99% OF ALL OTHER BUSINESSES HAVE TO DO.
I like MICROSOFT, but sure as day becomes night will scrap every piece of their software I use and switch to Linux or a MAC system before I ever allow them to dictate to me how I can use or when I can use MY PERSONAL PROPERTY, PAID FOR WITH MY HARD EARNED MONEY.
Get real people, allow this, and it's just the tip of the iceberg.
OFF MY SOAPBOX----Phyxer944
Reply to this comment
The right? Sure. Good idea? Heck no.
by Hardrada October 7, 2006 5:53 AM PDT
Does Microsoft have the right to put such a complicated anti-piracy scheme in place in their operating system? Of course they do. They have the "right" to program in any number of idiotic, user-unfriendly, antagonistic features they feel like programming in.

I bought a legal copy of XP, SP2 to run on my Mac. The first time it was easy enough, it authenticated and was ready to go. Then I got to my first reinstall, and the wonderful anti-piracy scheme informed me that I needed to contact the company because I'm only allowed to authenticate once.

What?

Now any time I need to reinstall their operating system - on the same machine, mind you - I have to call Microsoft to plead with them to let me do it. I have to beg the company to allow me to use software I paid for?

The funny thing is, if I wanted to circumvent the authentication crap I could. Easily. A quick search on the web shows dozens of cracks and hacks that cripple the authentication and let people use illegal copies.

But WHY should I have to resort to using those on a piece of software I actually paid for? And now the news is that Vista is going to be even more complex?

To hell with that. I'm hardly computer illiterate, but there are millions of people out there who are lucky to know which end of the mouse faces up. How the hell are they supposed to be able to navigate this complex, anti-consumer approach that treats everyone like pirates instead of customers?

I'm sorry that I even bought XP. They make it so hard to deal with that it's just not worth trying. Let them continue to sabotage their software. Let them continue to promote vaporware operating systems for years on end and then finally release software with this kind of unintuitive, paranoid attack on their customers. I'm sure the proponents of alternate operating systems are loving it.
Reply to this comment
More lip service and more PR damage to Microsoft
by Bush.Sux October 7, 2006 10:54 AM PDT
Microsoft has the right to do what they feel to protect their investment and consumers will just have to suck it up or not use it.

Reality is that their methods only hurt paying customers. Windows XP activation was cracked before the OS hit the shelves in 2001. The same has already happened with the first Alpha release of Vista to testers.

MS, Adobe, Symantec, and cohorts have released false data on piracy costs to the US gov't. They bloat their numbers with mark-to-market accounting and push the lost theoretical sales off on the American Taxpayers. Why should we just assume what they say is correct? It's in their best interest to falsify numbers to reduce their already heavily reduced taxes.

If MS is worried about piracy they need to start thinking outside of the box. With billions in their coffers, wasting millions upon million on unworthy anti-piracy measures only demonstrates that MS is no longer innovative and that Vista itself won't be that much better than Windows XP.
Reply to this comment
AWESOME virus exploit!
by W2Kuser October 7, 2006 6:46 PM PDT
I can't wait to read about the first virus that exploits this "functionality" to disable millions of machines overnight...
Reply to this comment
Vista
by ltcolc2000 October 8, 2006 3:33 PM PDT
A software development company is entitled to whatever profits their product will generate, and to take whatever action they deem appropriate to ensure said profits. At the same time, purchasers of their products are entitled to use of a product that performs up to both explicit and clearly implied standadards.
I used to be a very "legal" software user, and still am overall. But until Microsoft provide appropriate compensation to me, and to tens of millions like me, who trusted them enough to purchase ME, I will consider Microsoft products "fair game" for pirateing.

I am fairly confident that I am not alone in this.

It is amazing that Microsoft would rather spend money and customer satisfaction on making new products difficult to break than to make amends to those previously loyal customers they ripped of in the past.
Reply to this comment
Redmond has something even better than WGA!
by Jim Hubbard October 9, 2006 2:32 AM PDT
If all of the reports are correct about the upcoming Vista OS (like the one at http://west-wind.com/WebLog/posts/4983.aspx), Microsoft won't have to worry about pirates at all.

Who wants to steal a system that thier current software can't run on?

First, MS told users they'd need bigger, badder PCs to get all the features of Vista. Now, it seems they may need a whole new software library too.

While MS certainly has the right (and even obligation to its shareholders) to stop piracy any way that it can, I'd say that issue will run a distant second to all of the complaints that you will see when users "upgrade" thier systems and can't run the software that they used every business day in XP.

Microsoft lose more money by blocking valid software uses with the new Vista "security model" than anything they could have lost to pirates.

At some point, Microsoft (and everyone else) will just have to realize and admit that you can't substitute code for intelligent PC use.

Enough with trying to save PC users from themselves. Let them lose enough time, money and data and they'll learn.

Hey Microsoft, there's no patch for stupidity! For God's (and our) sake, please stop trying!
Reply to this comment
ARRRGH!
by Llib Setag October 9, 2006 1:04 PM PDT
Microsoft to stop piracy?

HEY! That's our job to be the bloody pirates matey!

Captain Blackheart Ballmer doesn't like competition from theives out there...!

Walk the plank!

Pot calling the kettle black when MS complains about piracy in software...
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Whats the Advantage?
by smSpillaz October 10, 2006 11:36 PM PDT
I dont even know why they called it windows genuine ADVANTAGE, whats the advantage? Is microsoft telling me that I am paying almost $500 for a "full" version of windows for 30 days and then it becomes a thing that nags me to pay more money? Some people might not understand what product activation is or how to do it AND microsoft hasnt accounted for those without an internet connection or telephone line. I think that its unfair for microsoft to tell me that the "Advantage" being able to use what I paid for. This is the EXACT reason why I moved to SLED before vista came out. Run all windows apps with WINE, Better windows effects than Aero (XGL + Beryl), NO Viruses security threats etc, runs so much fater becaue I dont have to run and antivirus or antispyware and MUCH MUCH better online support! AND ITS FREE! And its legal for me to do whatever I want with it!
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Microsoft is Hurting the Buisness Consumer
by netlord80 October 12, 2006 8:38 AM PDT
I certainly understand the right and desire to protect Microsoft's Intellectual Property. The issue here is primarily for businesses. In larger environments such as the one I am in, the new license model will put a massive burden on the company. This is all assuming that these License servers actually work. They don't have the greatest track record for this.

In order for us to move to Vista "reliably" we would need to deploy 65 License servers and manage them. This has actually led to the evaluation of Linux as a desktop replacement. Many companies talk about that, but in our case it is an actual project that is ongoing. The loss of our business alone would cost them about $6-8 million per year. Those types of numbers add up quickly.

Microsoft seems to believe that they own the market and that no one could live without them. If this trend continues they will find themselves losing market share quickly.
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Piracy - vs - logic (if there is such a thing...)
by laughtatlife October 12, 2006 12:53 PM PDT
I would be more worried about a hacker figuring out how to create a virus that would turn the option on. All of a sudden you are working on the pc and an hour later it shuts down and won't allow you to work on it. Millions of users calling into Microsoft to re-validate....

I can almost see the headlines in the paper now
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Stupid Anti Piracy
by ron_r_08 October 12, 2006 12:55 PM PDT
Only suckers pay for $300 for a dvd with a bunch of pits and bumps. I think all software should be free. Its bad enough that you have to pay for the hardware. You sholdnt have to pay to use it. I would use linux but I need the features that windows offers.
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Shocked at the comments here
by DavesTechShop October 13, 2006 12:55 PM PDT
I am just shocked that so few people are offended by Microsoft's anti-piracy steps with Vista. I will absolutely not be migrating to Vista any time soon and the reason is the anti-piracy features they have put in the software. I have an MSDN subscription, and Vista has been and will be available for me to evaluate or develop with, but I continue to choose not to touch it. If it turns out that these new features go no further than those in XP, then I will move to Vista. However, all the information I have read so far indicates that these features extend far beyond those in XP. If they do turn out to be as intrusive as they seem to be, I will be moving my personal computers to Linux and I will probably move from career to other technologies as well.
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the bottom line is as split as it is mute
by bigAJbc October 14, 2006 12:41 AM PDT
The Pro's and Con's for the Anti-Piracy with Microsoft will debate for eternity with both side's really being most passionate about their points of view. The issue is split on two parts;

1st - the part that you can dole out hundred's of hard earned dollars for software your just technically borrowing as you never own programs you spend a bundle on (read your end users licensing agreements people) so there are some issues with the spent on rent for software you need, and need you do. And the split point is the fact you do own your computer hardware outright (well most of us do) and nobody whatsoever has the right to tell anybody what they can and cannot do with that hardware, unless permission has been given to (whomever) by the pc owner to have carte-blanche control over such devices.

The solution to anti piracy would be to suggest alternative measures to prevent the operating system from deteriorating, without the o/s wrecking the hardware or rendering it useless. There are hardworking citizens that are not aware of what they are purchasing when it comes to computers ( I still have clients that cant grasp RAM over Hard Drive Space - and never will) so EULA's abound and dollars flying about, you cannot punish the hardware purchaser for something they may very well may not be aware of, and rendering their newly purchased pride and joy absolutely useless will just veer them away from the entire experience altogether.

We all know (techies and newbie's) that this train has now left the station and to accomplish anything these days you have to have access and user skills with a computer and the train is going forward never retracting it's path back. Not going to happen; - so scaring potential newbie?s is not the Anti Piracy solution.

All I can say is I spend countless hours of finding new techniques to get new users on board and as any facilitator knows the questions can be daunting and time consuming. We best not be addressing these other smaller portion issues with more media gobble-dee-**** so the general population has to spend another $400 they don?t have just to educate themselves on this issue, which is a battle between the big guys and a rogue group of hacker wanna-be's.

In closing, I have read pages and pages on this issue and one point does shine through. The issue of Pirated copies of any MS operating system being distributed around has been a benefit to Microsoft. I know this from my own early days when I first installed my Windows 95 cd on many newbie computers and with my own valid serial number (cd-key).

I was contacted by Microsoft about my cd-key appearing on a multitude of systems and my reply was quite simply put back to them as such: " considering I am trying to sell this new pc user a new environment in which they can upgrade and make additions to the O/S on their own or try to sell them the alternative to Microsoft (being Macintosh for the most part) and I did not once sell anybody my Windows O/S. I just installed a copy so they could become more affluent with the processes and make Microsoft Upgrades and Office (etc) purchases on their own, which option does Microsoft prefer me to facilitate?"
Albeit I was left alone and watched my P?s and Q?s when daring to tread along this iffy behavior (which I have now stopped) but all of those pc newbie?s have made Microsoft purchases on many different programs as a result, including the newer Operating Systems as XP Pro or XP Home.

So, I ask ? did Microsoft loose in any of those transactions? No, they gained more customers in the long run.

Now years later, you want to disable a computer and render it unusable after the 30 days has passed, where these people have spend hundred?s and thousands of hard earned dollars in upgrade after upgrade ? never to own the darned program whatsoever?.. There must be an alternative. If someone breeched my home security and rendered it unusable, they would face criminal charges, or if somebody disallowed me the legal and proper use of anything I own, they could very well be facing charges of many kinds?. Microsoft crosses that line by rendering anybody?s hardware unusable, PERIOD.

Thanks for reading
AJ
Reply to this comment
the bottom line is as split as it is mute
by bigAJbc October 14, 2006 12:42 AM PDT
The Pro's and Con's for the Anti-Piracy with Microsoft will debate for eternity with both side's really being most passionate about their points of view. The issue is split on two parts;

1st - the part that you can dole out hundred's of hard earned dollars for software your just technically borrowing as you never own programs you spend a bundle on (read your end users licensing agreements people) so there are some issues with the spent on rent for software you need, and need you do. And the split point is the fact you do own your computer hardware outright (well most of us do) and nobody whatsoever has the right to tell anybody what they can and cannot do with that hardware, unless permission has been given to (whomever) by the pc owner to have carte-blanche control over such devices.

The solution to anti piracy would be to suggest alternative measures to prevent the operating system from deteriorating, without the o/s wrecking the hardware or rendering it useless. There are hardworking citizens that are not aware of what they are purchasing when it comes to computers ( I still have clients that cant grasp RAM over Hard Drive Space - and never will) so EULA's abound and dollars flying about, you cannot punish the hardware purchaser for something they may very well may not be aware of, and rendering their newly purchased pride and joy absolutely useless will just veer them away from the entire experience altogether.

We all know (techies and newbie's) that this train has now left the station and to accomplish anything these days you have to have access and user skills with a computer and the train is going forward never retracting it's path back. Not going to happen; - so scaring potential newbie?s is not the Anti Piracy solution.

All I can say is I spend countless hours of finding new techniques to get new users on board and as any facilitator knows the questions can be daunting and time consuming. We best not be addressing these other smaller portion issues with more media gobble-dee-**** so the general population has to spend another $400 they don?t have just to educate themselves on this issue, which is a battle between the big guys and a rogue group of hacker wanna-be's.

In closing, I have read pages and pages on this issue and one point does shine through. The issue of Pirated copies of any MS operating system being distributed around has been a benefit to Microsoft. I know this from my own early days when I first installed my Windows 95 cd on many newbie computers and with my own valid serial number (cd-key).

I was contacted by Microsoft about my cd-key appearing on a multitude of systems and my reply was quite simply put back to them as such: " considering I am trying to sell this new pc user a new environment in which they can upgrade and make additions to the O/S on their own or try to sell them the alternative to Microsoft (being Macintosh for the most part) and I did not once sell anybody my Windows O/S. I just installed a copy so they could become more affluent with the processes and make Microsoft Upgrades and Office (etc) purchases on their own, which option does Microsoft prefer me to facilitate?"
Albeit I was left alone and watched my P?s and Q?s when daring to tread along this iffy behavior (which I have now stopped) but all of those pc newbie?s have made Microsoft purchases on many different programs as a result, including the newer Operating Systems as XP Pro or XP Home.

So, I ask ? did Microsoft loose in any of those transactions? No, they gained more customers in the long run.

Now years later, you want to disable a computer and render it unusable after the 30 days has passed, where these people have spend hundred?s and thousands of hard earned dollars in upgrade after upgrade ? never to own the darned program whatsoever?.. There must be an alternative. If someone breeched my home security and rendered it unusable, they would face criminal charges, or if somebody disallowed me the legal and proper use of anything I own, they could very well be facing charges of many kinds?. Microsoft crosses that line by rendering anybody?s hardware unusable, PERIOD.

Thanks for reading
AJ
Reply to this comment
Piracy vs faulty licensing
by chasrobin October 15, 2006 6:59 AM PDT
I am an IT person who does desktop managment daily.
I can tell you from experience we almost never have WGA issue's.
What does worry me about Vista is the limited number of re-installs and being able to transfer keys to new hardware.
When a users box dies we generally have a machine standing by with a baseline install.
Pop the license on it restore the users data if not already available from redirected network folders and bingo up and running in less than an hour.
Vista sounds like it will fail to fit this kind of quick turn around users have come to expect in the corporate world.
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