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Johnny can so program
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Can Johnny still program?
April 19, 2005
Saratov State University placed first, with four other Russian schools in the top 10 in the 2006 Association for Computer Machinery's International Collegiate Programming Contest (ACM-ICPC).
Seven of the top 10 teams were from Europe, and just one from the United States: MIT placed 8th, managing to solve 5 of the 10 problems in less than 14 hours.
The poor U.S. showing could provide new fuel for the debate over whether U.S. computer programmers lag behind the rest of the world when it comes to talent.
World finals for the 30th annual AMC-ICPC were held in San Antonio, Texas. Competitors were given 10 complex problems to solve within an allotted time by using computer programming.
The 10 problems (click here for PDF) challenged programmers to create software for everything from data decompression to origami. One problem asked programmers to design a structurally sound sculpture, restricted by the physics of a specific set of materials and specifications. Another challenged them to write a program that could instruct on how to assemble a clock with minute and hour hands, given a specific shaft speed and collection of gears.
Winners were determined first by the number of problems solved within the allotted time, then by the time it took them to do it. The Saratov State University team completed six of the 10 problems in a little over 15 hours.
Each of the Saratov State University team members won $10,000 in scholarship, computer equipment from IBM, an event sponsor and the prestigious world title to put on their resume.
Other than six total slots taken by Russia and the U.S., three other countries made it to the top 10. Poland's Jagiellonian University placed second, and Warsaw University took seventh. A team from the Netherlands took fourth place and one from China took fifth.
Another American university, California Institute of Technology, shared 15th place with 39 other schools, solving only two problems. Other U.S. universities that participated have received honorable mentions for making it to the finals.
See more CNET content tagged:
Russia, U.S., programming
But the notion that this competition somehow means US programmers 'lag behind' other nations is simply rediculous - and demonstrates either a lack of critical thinking on the part of the article's author or intended dishonesty. This competition was between college kids currently in school, NOT among professionals, NOR among all programmers in general. Implying it was relevant to ANYTHING ELSE is dishonest - a typical media distortion to try to drum up some 'crisis' that needs attention.
Bravo! I am much more blunt and and brutal in my opinions of media journalists: they are stupid. Period.
This drumming up a non-existent "crisis" is pervasive among media journalists in every human endeavor:
physical or mental. Dear heavens! The US hockey team only won silver this year at the Olympics, not gold. The US is "seriously behind" in hockey. Well, guess what? The US is almost certainly behind in several hundred Olympic venues, sports that NEVER get reported.
99.9% of journalists never did a hard day of work in their lives. If they want to measure a real crisis,
they should start with these famous words (slightly modified by me):
The greatness of a nation can be measured by the way it treats its animals and human prisoners.
They should start by ranking nations according to THAT criterion.
On a second theme: are there any paid jobs (not for me, but a relative of mine who is an ace Java computer programmer, who has written his own music-related software, which tackles some massively complex problems) in these computer programming competitions for a coach or a competition judge?
My relative (and I) live in the United States.
But the notion that this competition somehow means US programmers 'lag behind' other nations is simply rediculous - and demonstrates either a lack of critical thinking on the part of the article's author or intended dishonesty. This competition was between college kids currently in school, NOT among professionals, NOR among all programmers in general. Implying it was relevant to ANYTHING ELSE is dishonest - a typical media distortion to try to drum up some 'crisis' that needs attention.
But as several other people have already stated, above, this contest is not a pronouncement on the programming aptitude of one nation over another? it is however, an indicator of the calibre of programming candidates that are being attracted into the computer science faculties in the respective countries.
But as several other people have already stated, above, this contest is not a pronouncement on the programming aptitude of one nation over another? it is however, an indicator of the calibre of programming candidates that are being attracted into the computer science faculties in the respective countries.
run through the submissions, but for development the
participants normally just make the files up themselves using
the sample data supplied.
Look over the problem set - it supplies the test data to use. Just
suck that into a file and name it appropriately, then have some
fun! Realize that half the trick is to identify the problems you (or
your team:) can solve quickly and plow through those first. If
you picked the wrong problem, it can hang up your whole day.
They usually have at least one "easy" problem and one "really
hard" one, the rest being somewhere inbetween in terms of
complexity.
Yes, I have done this once or twice before a half dozen years or
so ago. Not only was it a great experience, but a ton of fun as
well!
run through the submissions, but for development the
participants normally just make the files up themselves using
the sample data supplied.
Look over the problem set - it supplies the test data to use. Just
suck that into a file and name it appropriately, then have some
fun! Realize that half the trick is to identify the problems you (or
your team:) can solve quickly and plow through those first. If
you picked the wrong problem, it can hang up your whole day.
They usually have at least one "easy" problem and one "really
hard" one, the rest being somewhere inbetween in terms of
complexity.
Yes, I have done this once or twice before a half dozen years or
so ago. Not only was it a great experience, but a ton of fun as
well!
http://www.topcoder.com/stat?c=country_avg_rating
http://www.topcoder.com/stat?c=country_avg_rating
The site seems to rate Indian programmers rather poorly.
I have heard that the Indian Institute of Technology puts MIT to shame.
I guess not.
Indian "IT" skills are already too hyped up and our - misplaced - arrogance is blind-siding us to the REAL advances others are making. The same arrogance that places an IIT over an MIT because some IIT-ans did better that some MIT-ans in some programming exercise.
Do not confuse coding skills with developing skills. See any serious product come out of India recently? Or any serious IP for that matter out of "Indian" IT shops?
All the people who put up such drivel - as well as those who believe and propogate it - should have their heads examined! India is far away from world-dominance in IT and is probably getting further over time.
Indian "IT" skills are already too hyped up and our - misplaced - arrogance is blind-siding us to the REAL advances others are making. The same arrogance that places an IIT over an MIT because some IIT-ans did better that some MIT-ans in some programming exercise.
Do not confuse coding skills with developing skills. See any serious product come out of India recently? Or any serious IP for that matter out of "Indian" IT shops?
All the people who put up such drivel - as well as those who believe and propogate it - should have their heads examined! India is far away from world-dominance in IT and is probably getting further over time.
The site seems to rate Indian programmers rather poorly.
I have heard that the Indian Institute of Technology puts MIT to shame.
I guess not.
Indian "IT" skills are already too hyped up and our - misplaced - arrogance is blind-siding us to the REAL advances others are making. The same arrogance that places an IIT over an MIT because some IIT-ans did better that some MIT-ans in some programming exercise.
Do not confuse coding skills with developing skills. See any serious product come out of India recently? Or any serious IP for that matter out of "Indian" IT shops?
All the people who put up such drivel - as well as those who believe and propogate it - should have their heads examined! India is far away from world-dominance in IT and is probably getting further over time.
Indian "IT" skills are already too hyped up and our - misplaced - arrogance is blind-siding us to the REAL advances others are making. The same arrogance that places an IIT over an MIT because some IIT-ans did better that some MIT-ans in some programming exercise.
Do not confuse coding skills with developing skills. See any serious product come out of India recently? Or any serious IP for that matter out of "Indian" IT shops?
All the people who put up such drivel - as well as those who believe and propogate it - should have their heads examined! India is far away from world-dominance in IT and is probably getting further over time.
1) Google
2) Apple
3) Yahoo
What have they invented over there?
1) Tetris
2) Microsoft Beer
3) $.01 unlimited mp3 downloads
4) Warez Crackz
1) Google
2) Apple
3) Yahoo
What have they invented over there?
1) Tetris
2) Microsoft Beer
3) $.01 unlimited mp3 downloads
4) Warez Crackz
To answer sceptics, lets mention some facts:
- Google founder Sergei Brin was born in Russia and brought by his parents to the US when he was six.
- 5% (~1000) of Microsoft developers in Redmond are native Russian speakers.
- Hundreds of thousands of software developers in Silicon Valley are native Russian speakers.
yes, Russia does not have companies like Microsoft, Yahoo or Google. In fact the other countries have only a few of such companies. The main problem of Russia is lack of business managers and poor understanding of the high tech economy trends. This is mainly because of years of communist isolation.
Why the US students do not perform well in such contests? this is not because the US has less talents. Americans talents simply go to business, not to IT, earn lots of $$, and then buy the best software developers from Russia, which make excellent software for their US bosses, which earn big $$, etc...
Should the America be concerned with poor performance in the programming contest? Not really, when many software talents from all countries dream to work here.
========
check web site accessibility, privacy, quality: http://checkwebsite.erigami.com/accessibility.html
I have no problem with the comments about "Cheap Indian Programmers" because there is a simple kernel of truth. We are a low cost provider of Programming Skills. We are not necessarily a large supplier of High Quality skills at low cost.
If you want to understand the IP issues associated with Indian Engineers (Software or Otherwise)- then differentiate between those who work in the Out Sourcing scene in India - FROM - those who work in the USA (or other advanced countries). Particularly if they have been groomed in the Advanced Environment.
I have worked with Russians. Their scientific establishment has very strong mathematical and theoretical foundations. I have seen excellent software from Russia. In fact - I would say that outside the Wild West creative style of the USA, Russia probably produces the most aggressively creative, yet disciplined, supply of programmers.
We in India are good government servants. Don't shoot good obedient servants - BECAUSE - very often that is a cheaper way to solve a problem that does not need rocket science.
If you have any spare asbestos suits, please let me know. I am sure that I will need them.
Hakuna Matata
Sughyosha
To answer sceptics, lets mention some facts:
- Google founder Sergei Brin was born in Russia and brought by his parents to the US when he was six.
- 5% (~1000) of Microsoft developers in Redmond are native Russian speakers.
- Hundreds of thousands of software developers in Silicon Valley are native Russian speakers.
yes, Russia does not have companies like Microsoft, Yahoo or Google. In fact the other countries have only a few of such companies. The main problem of Russia is lack of business managers and poor understanding of the high tech economy trends. This is mainly because of years of communist isolation.
Why the US students do not perform well in such contests? this is not because the US has less talents. Americans talents simply go to business, not to IT, earn lots of $$, and then buy the best software developers from Russia, which make excellent software for their US bosses, which earn big $$, etc...
Should the America be concerned with poor performance in the programming contest? Not really, when many software talents from all countries dream to work here.
========
check web site accessibility, privacy, quality: http://checkwebsite.erigami.com/accessibility.html
I have no problem with the comments about "Cheap Indian Programmers" because there is a simple kernel of truth. We are a low cost provider of Programming Skills. We are not necessarily a large supplier of High Quality skills at low cost.
If you want to understand the IP issues associated with Indian Engineers (Software or Otherwise)- then differentiate between those who work in the Out Sourcing scene in India - FROM - those who work in the USA (or other advanced countries). Particularly if they have been groomed in the Advanced Environment.
I have worked with Russians. Their scientific establishment has very strong mathematical and theoretical foundations. I have seen excellent software from Russia. In fact - I would say that outside the Wild West creative style of the USA, Russia probably produces the most aggressively creative, yet disciplined, supply of programmers.
We in India are good government servants. Don't shoot good obedient servants - BECAUSE - very often that is a cheaper way to solve a problem that does not need rocket science.
If you have any spare asbestos suits, please let me know. I am sure that I will need them.
Hakuna Matata
Sughyosha
- "It's The Economy Stupid!"
- by Captain_Spock April 17, 2006 2:16 PM PDT
- ... just to use the Bill Clinton's Campaign Theme... so what if "Russia dominates computer-programming contest" in addition to the statement by the late Marx - that, it is "around" the "E_c_o_n_o_m_i_c - S_u_p_e_r_s_t_r_u_c_t_u_r_e" that the Educational, Social, Scientific and others revolves! Lets see how the (smart) Russians use their talents and "computing skills" to address the world's social and economic woes!
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