ie8 fix
News.com special coverage:

Real ID vs. the states

Tell us what you think about this storyTalkBack    E-mail this story to a friendE-mail    Add to your del.icio.usdel.icio.us    Digg this storyDigg this

Real ID could mean real travel headaches

By Anne Broache and Declan McCullagh
Staff Writers, CNET News.com
February 4, 2008 4:00 AM PST


Editor's note: A May deadline looms as just one flash point in a political showdown between Homeland Security and states that oppose Real ID demands. This is the first in a four-part series examining the confrontation.

Shipyard Brewing Company's Maine ales, handcrafted in a former foundry on Portland's waterfront from malted barley, buckets of hop leaves, and Sebago Lake water, have risen to regional prominence. In 2007, the 14-year-old company shipped just more than 1 million cases.

Expanding sales of Shipyard Export Ale, Old Thumper Extra Special, and Bluefin Stout beyond New England has meant trips out of Portland's airport every other week for Fred Forsley, the company's co-founder and president. Forsley, 47, says his most frequent sales calls are to customers in Florida, New York, California, and Arizona.

But starting on May 11, Forsley may no longer be permitted to use his Maine driver's license to fly out of the Portland International Jetport. Under the federal Real ID Act, which the Bush administration has touted as an antiterrorist measure, federal screeners could be required to reject it as invalid identification.

"I have been assuming the issue would get addressed and streamlined," Forsley said. "But now I can see I have to really pay attention."

Forsley is hardly alone. In just more than three months, millions of law-abiding Americans might face new hassles when traveling on commercial flights if they hold driver's licenses or identification cards issued by Maine, South Carolina, Montana, Oklahoma, New Hampshire, and up to 15 other states plus the District of Columbia that have rejected the Real ID regulations on privacy and cost grounds or have not agreed to comply. (See the accompanying map.)

Will I be able to fly after May 11?

Starting May 11, unless your home state agrees to comply with the federal Real ID Act or unless it asks for an extension, you should expect problems going through security at airports. Click a state below to see what that state has told us about whether or not its ID cards will meet Real ID requirements.

Real ID by state DC DC ME NH VT MA RI CT NY NJ DE MD PA WV VA NC SC FL GA OH IN KY TN AL MS LA AR MI IL WI MO IA MN OK KS NE SD ND CO WY MT ID WA OR UT NV CA AZ NM TX AK HI
Click a state above to see what that state has told us about whether or not it's going along with the federal Real ID Act.
Alabama

Alabama plans to ask for an extension. "At this point, one option that's being considered is a 'hybrid' approach to Real ID in Alabama, by which the state would offer compliant and noncompliant driver licenses and ID cards. We do plan to ask for an extension."
--Dorris Teague, Public Information/Education Unit, Alabama Department of Public Safety

Alaska

"Alaska does indeed intend to request an extension to meet the requirements of Real ID. We haven't submitted our extension request yet, but we fully intend to do so in the very near future."
--Whitney Brewster, spokeswoman, Alaska Division of Motor Vehicles

Arizona

Arizona says that Homeland Security has said the state will "automatically get an extension" because of an existing plan to revamp its licenses, according to Jeanine L'Ecuyer, spokeswoman for Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano. That means its driver's licenses and state ID cards will be treated as Real ID-compliant until December 31, 2009.

But L'Ecuyer added that final compliance is still an open question: "Will Arizona do Real ID? Maybe is the honest answer to that question."

Arkansas

"We have asked for the first extension, but in the extension letter, we say we are not committed to implementing Real ID. We just need time to look at it and evaluate it."
--Mike Munns, assistant revenue commissioner for Arkansas

California

California reiterated in January 2008 that it has no problems complying with Real ID. Its statement did, however, mention "privacy and funding issues, which continue to be a concern for California."

Colorado

"We requested and received the extension until 2009, and we expect to be fully on the road to implementing Real ID satisfactorily by that point to get another extension in the future if we need to."
--Mark Couch, spokesman for the Colorado Department of Revenue

Connecticut

Connecticut has not decided whether to comply with Real ID, reject it completely, or request an extension to keep its options open. "We are still studying the issue. (Department of Motor Vehicles Commissioner Robert Ward) remains supportive of the concept, but no firm decisions have been made."
--Bill Seymour, spokesman for the motor vehicle commissioner.

Delaware

Delaware has not decided whether to comply with Real ID, reject it completely, or request an extension to keep its options open. "The DMV director and secretary are going to give a briefing to the governor next month, February. Because we've got until the end of March to decide...After they have this meeting with the governor is when we're going to make our official choice."
--Mike Williams, spokesman, Delaware Department of Transportation

Florida

Florida has not announced whether it will or will not request an extension. "Thanks to the leadership of our governor, cabinet, and legislature, Florida already provides our citizens a secure and safe driver license and identification card, and we are well postured to incorporate any changes that may be required. We applaud the federal government on their efforts to protect all of our citizens with the implementation of this act."
--Ann Nucatola, public information director, Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles

Georgia

Georgia has not decided whether to comply with Real ID, reject it completely, or request an extension to keep its options open. The legislature has approved legislation authorizing the governor to reject Real ID if federal regulations do not "adequately safeguard and restrict use of the information in order to protect the privacy rights" of Georgia residents. "Our legislature has to make that determination within the next few months."
--Susan Sports, public information officer, Georgia Department of Driver Services

Hawaii

Hawaii has filed for and received an extension. "We are moving forward on reviewing the rules and coordinating with the county DMVs to see how the rules can be implemented and coordinated."
--Russell Pang, chief of Media Relations for Hawaii Gov. Linda Lingle

Idaho

"We've asked for an extension, but we still have serious concerns and reservations about it and its future here is to be determined."
--Jon Hanian, spokesman for Idaho Gov. C.L. "Butch" Otter

Illinois

"We have every intention to file for an extension."
--Henry Haupt, spokesman for Illinois Secretary of State Jesse White

Indiana

"We do intend to comply, and we have filed for and received an extension. Over the past couple of years, we've done some security enhancements to our own system that we were going to do regardless of how Real ID rolled out."
--Dennis Rosebrough, spokesman, Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicles

Iowa
"Yes, Iowa will be implementing Real ID and we will be requesting the first extension."
--Dena Gray-Fisher, spokeswoman, Iowa Department of Transportation
Kansas

"Kansas has obtained authorization for the extension, which gets us out to the end of 2009 and affords us the opportunity to see where we are, negotiate a few different things with our vendor and others. It gives us a little breathing room."
--Carmen Alldritt, director of the division of vehicles, Kansas Department of Revenue

Kentucky

"A Real ID would be an entirely new document. The current KY license would not meet the new standard...Kentucky has asked for the extension."
--Mark Brown, spokesman, Kentucky Transportation Cabinet

Louisiana

State officials have not responded to repeated requests for information about Real ID compliance. One bill in the state legislature asks Congress to repeal Real ID, while a response to a DMV survey says that "We believe that Louisiana will meet standards."

Maine

Will not comply. "There is currently no effort being undertaken within the state to roll back the public law preventing the secretary from moving in the direction of Real ID. It is a situation where Mainers may face some inconvenience at airports come May 11."
--Don Cookson, spokesman for Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap

Maryland

Maryland requested a deadline extension. "We're still going through 300 pages of federal guidelines. We're currently evaluating those guidelines and then we'll develop a program that is Real ID-compliant."
--Jack Cahalan, spokesman, Maryland Department of Transportation

Massachusetts

"Massachusetts did apply for the waiver and received it. We are basically telling (drivers who call us) that we've gotten the exemption, which means that you are going to show your valid driver's license to get on an airplane just as you have in the past until December 2009."
--Ann Dufresne, spokeswoman, Massachusetts Department of Motor Vehicles.

After December 2009, states can apply for a second extension, but will receive it only if they're taking affirmative steps to comply.

Michigan

Michigan has not decided whether to comply with Real ID, reject it completely, or request an extension to keep its options open. "At this point, we have not requested a waiver. We're still trying to work out some of the details."
--Kelly Chesney, spokeswoman for Michigan Secretary of State Terri Lyn Land. The state's Web site says: "There are still many unknowns...Michigan law changes will be necessary."

Minnesota

"We did receive a letter from Homeland Security and it said that our extension had been granted, so that would mean that our documents, our driver's licenses, and ID cards, are compliant until December 31, 2009."
--Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokeswoman

Mississippi

No response to repeated inquiries.

Missouri

No response to repeated inquiries. The state Web site says: "January 11, 2008 the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) released the final rule establishing minimum security standards for state-issued driver licenses and identification cards. The rule is 284 pages in length. The Missouri Department of Revenue is in the process of reviewing the rules to determine the impact to Missouri."

Montana

Montana's legislature has flatly rejected Real ID in a bill that the governor has signed into law. Gov. Brian Schwitzer has called on his colleagues in other states this month to join Montana in opposition to this "major threat to the privacy, constitutional rights, and pocketbooks of ordinary Montanans." Lynn Solomon, a spokeswoman for the Montana attorney general's office, told us: "Right now we're not even sure that the existing Montana law allows us to ask for the extension. We're just sort of sitting tight."

Nebraska

"Nebraska has requested and has been granted an initial extension. That extension does not require you to technically commit to Real ID compliance--it says we need some time, and that's what we said, we need some time. Whether or not Nebraska is ultimately going to be compliant is really for the most part right now in the hands of the legislature."
--Beverly Neth, director, Nebraska Department of Motor Vehicles

Nevada

Nevada has applied for a deadline extension. "Certainly this is something that the governor supports and believes is important, although he believes in some respects it is an unfunded mandate and that the federal government should assist the states with the funding," Melissa Subbotin, spokeswoman for Nevada Gov. Jim Gibbons, told us.

New Hampshire

New Hampshire last year enacted a law that prohibits the state from changing its driver's license and identification card laws to comply with Real ID. It doesn't appear that is going to change. "As it stands now, the only action that has been taken is legislation to keep us out of it. There would be no way that the state could pass amending legislation or undo that within that time frame; it's just not going to happen. I don't see that anything could be done in the intervening time to change it," Jim Van Dongen, spokesman for the New Hampshire Department of Safety, told us.

New Jersey

New Jersey has not decided whether to comply with Real ID, reject it completely, or request an extension to keep its options open. Mike Horan, a spokesman for the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission, said there are a number of factors that the state is considering, including cost and wait times at the DMV. "Are the Real ID requirements going to add 15 minutes more to a person's wait? Are we going to need a new computer system to manage the requirements? We're in a bit of a fiscal crisis like many states across the country. That's a major concern--there are so many things that are in need of money."

New Mexico

New Mexico has applied for the first deadline extension from the Department of Homeland Security. "We have not made a final decision on whether we are going to implement Real ID or not," said David Harwell, a spokesman for the state department of taxation and revenue, which issues driver's licenses. "We are in the process of studying all of the regulations that were issued by Secretary (Michael) Chertoff several weeks ago."

New York

New York has already received an "unsolicited extension" from the Department of Homeland Security as part of a recent agreement to change its driver license policies, said Jennifer Givner, deputy press secretary for Gov. Eliot Spitzer.

North Carolina

North Carolina said it will request an extension if it's necessary for state residents to travel after May 11, but has not yet done so. "We're feeling that we are on track to follow along the Real ID plan as it is right now. We don't see any situation at this point where our citizens' driver's licenses would be in jeopardy and keeping them out of federal buildings or off of airplanes...Basically we feel like we're in a good place."
--Marge Howell, spokeswoman, North Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles

North Dakota

North Dakota has applied for a deadline extension. "Our application is stating that we'd like the extension and we would still like to reserve the opportunity to investigate committing to full implementation," said Linda Butts, deputy director of driver and vehicle services, North Dakota Department of Transportation. "The other thing that's muddying the water is that so many of these rules are long-term and seem to continue to mutate and change a little bit, so that's another thing I think all states are looking at is the cost of implementation. Are these truly going to be the rules in 2015? Will the rules today be the rules that are implemented five, seven years down the road?"

Ohio

Ohio said this month that it has applied for an extension and was the first state to receive one.

Oklahoma

Oklahoma's legislature has approved legislation saying that Real ID "is inimical to the security and well-being of the people of Oklahoma" and, therefore, "the state of Oklahoma shall not participate in the implementation of the Real ID Act." Paul Sund, spokesman for Oklahoma governor's office, told us: "I'm not aware of any repeal efforts, but our legislature does not convene until February 4."

Oregon

Oregon has requested and received an extension. In the longer term, however, the state may not comply. "Oregon hasn't made a decision for or against compliance with Real ID. But since the final federal rules were released January 10, our legislature is likely to put that on its 2009 agenda."
--David House, spokesman for the Oregon Department of Motor Vehicles

Pennsylvania

Pennsylvania has requested and received an extension. In the longer term, however, the state may not comply. "We're undergoing a comprehensive review of those regulations right now to look at some potential options, the cost that would be involved and also the impact to the citizens of Pennsylvania. Being granted this initial extension just allows us more time to do that and allows the citizens of the commonwealth to continue using their state driver's licenses and IDs through December 31, 2009."
--Danielle Klinger, spokeswoman, Pennsylvania Department of Transportation

Rhode Island

Rhode Island has applied for and received the first deadline extension from DHS, according to state DMV spokeswoman Gina Zanni. "Our governor supports the Real ID initiative," Zanni told us. "We have applied for part of the grant money that has been made available...we'd sure like some money."

South Carolina

South Carolina has enacted legislation saying the state "shall not participate in the implementation of the federal Real ID Act." Beth Parks, spokeswoman for the South Carolina Department of Motor Vehicles, told us: "Yes, it is true that South Carolina is a non-participatory state for Real ID. The South Carolina legislature is the only entity that can change that position. We are comparing the new regulations to the proposed regulations and our previous cost estimates. Once we have completed our review, we will provide information to South Carolina lawmakers and answer any questions they may have."

South Dakota

"We've applied for an extension and received one, but we have not committed to Real ID yet," said Mitch Krebs, press secretary for South Dakota Gov. Michael Rounds.

Tennessee

"The Department of Safety is conducting a detailed review of the final rules in order to fully evaluate the impact Real ID implementation will have on the citizens of the state of Tennessee. While we anticipate filing an extension, no official request has been signed as of this date. Keep in mind, an extension request is not necessarily an indication of our intent to comply."
--Mike Browning, spokesman, Tennessee Department of Safety

Texas

Texas has not decided whether to comply with Real ID, reject it completely, or request an extension to keep its options open. "We're still reading the fine print." --Tela Mange, spokeswoman, Texas Department of Public Safety

Utah

Utah has requested and received a deadline extension. "Our driver's license division is not a policy-making body. It would be up to the legislature and the governor. We are currently going through our legislative session--it just started. That will be one of the topics, whether to go through with it."
--Sgt. Jeff Nigbur, spokesman, Utah Department of Public Safety

Vermont

"Vermont requested and was granted an extension until December 31, 2009."
--John Zicconi, spokesman, Vermont Agency of Transportation

Virginia

Virginia has not decided whether to comply with Real ID, reject it completely, or request an extension to keep its options open. "The Virginia DMV is currently reviewing the regulations to determine our next steps."
--Melanie Stokes, spokeswoman, Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles

Washington

Gov. Christine Gregoire signed legislation last year prohibiting the state from implementing Real ID unless the federal government provides funding and greater privacy protections. But, in an apparent effort to avoid inconveniencing state residents in May, Gregoire requested a compliance extension. "By not filing an extension, effective May 11, Washingtonians would have automatically been subject to additional security screenings at airports and federal buildings," Gregoire said in a recent statement. It also said: "I will not allow for confusion and chaos at our busy airports. This extension will allow our residents to continue use of their Washington state driver license or ID card to board planes and enter federal buildings...The federal regulations on Real ID compliance are ambiguous, and I share funding and privacy concerns held by many state legislators."

West Virginia

West Virginia has not decided whether to comply with Real ID, reject it completely, or request an extension to keep its options open. "In West Virginia we are still weighing our options based upon the recent changes to the act's requirements."
--Susan Watkins, spokeswoman, West Virginia Department of Transportation

Wisconsin

Wisconsin has not decided whether to comply with Real ID, reject it completely, or request an extension to keep its options open. "We've not made a final determination regarding next steps for Wisconsin as it relates to Real ID," said Patrick Fernan, operations manager for the Wisconsin Department of Motor Vehicles. "We have not requested an extension as of yet."

Wyoming

Wyoming plans to request a deadline extension. "Unless the law for implementation of Real ID is changed in Washington D.C. or our Wyoming Legislature passes legislation not to comply with the Real ID, we will work toward implementation," said Jim O'Connor, support services administrator for the Wyoming Department of Transportation. He added, however: "We are concerned about this unfunded federal mandate and the effect it will have on the people of Wyoming."

Washington, D.C.

The nation's capital has not decided whether to comply with Real ID, reject it completely, or request an extension to keep its options open. "The DC DMV is still deciding on next steps," said public information officer Janis Hazel. "Nothing further to report at this time."

This represents a potentially embarrassing political setback to the Bush administration, which has championed Real ID as a way to identify terrorists and criminals. But instead of what supporters hoped would be a seamless shift to a nationalized ID card, the requirements have created a confusing patchwork of state responses. In addition, the administration has been forced to scale back Real ID after an outcry from state motor vehicle administrators.

New hassles at airports
Airlines and travelers associations worry the May 11 deadline will herald chaos at airports unsurpassed by any other recent change to federal law. Liquids and gels can be discarded or placed in checked baggage. But travelers from non-Real ID states will have no choice but to undergo what Homeland Security delicately calls "delays" and "enhanced security screening" unless they happen to have a valid U.S. passport issued by the State Department.

"The DHS proposal that individuals who do not have a passport and happen to live in states that do not seek an extension to comply before May of this year will not be allowed to board a domestic flight is extremely concerning," said Kevin Maguire, president and CEO of the National Business Travel Association, which represents corporate travel managers and travel service providers.

Less than 30 percent of Americans have U.S. passports, Maguire said, and it takes time and money to procure one. "We hope that well in advance of the May deadline, each state and territory will find agreement with DHS, but no citizen should be denied a fundamental right to travel because of a legal battle between their state and the federal government."

Some sort of last-minute compromise is possible before the May 11 deadline, though neither the Bush administration nor the states show any signs of backing down. In addition, any legal changes would probably have to originate with Congress--where a proposal to amend Real ID has been stuck in a Senate committee since February 2007.

A representative of the Air Transport Association, which represents the major U.S. airlines, said her group is pressuring Homeland Security to "work out an arrangement with states to ease the burden on the traveling public," although she declined to describe how any arrangement would work.

"This has the potential to be very problematic," said Victoria Day, ATA's communications director. "DHS is placing the burden on the traveling public for a state's inability to comply."

From DHS' perspective, the law is clear: Real ID was signed on May 11, 2005, by President Bush as part of an Iraq war and tsunami relief bill, and its edict is unambiguous. It says that "three years after the date of the enactment of this division, a federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a state to any person unless the state is meeting the requirements of this section."

This has created an impending political showdown between DHS and the non-Real ID states, which are hoping that the prospect of inconveniencing countless travelers in just more than four months will force the federal government to back down.

Adding to the political brinksmanship is that some of the nation's most populous states, including Florida, Texas, Virginia, and Georgia, have not agreed to comply with Real ID, according to a survey of all 50 states and the District of Columbia that CNET News.com conducted during the past two weeks. Residents of states that have signed up for the proposal or requested a deadline extension--California has publicly applauded Real ID--should not notice a difference when traveling by air.

The feds haven't blinked yet. Last month, DHS published nearly 300 pages of regulations that it expects every state to comply with, and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff even went so far as to say that only criminals and terrorists should be "disappointed" with the Real ID rules.

It's still unclear how airports will be reconfigured on May 11, with one option being a new security line for non-Real ID holders. Another is that security guards will be given lists of state licenses that are no longer acceptable.

Related story
The legislation behind
a national ID
Read the full text of
the Real ID law here.

The Transportation Security Administration refused to comment. "It's my understanding it's DHS' initiative at this stage in the game," said TSA representative Lauren Wolf.

"That's an operational, ongoing issue at this point in time," said Homeland Security spokeswoman Amy Kudwa. "We'll need to be a bit closer in." DHS still has a few months to figure that out, Kudwa added, noting that "we implemented the liquid ban overnight when we needed to."

The Bush administration already has been forced to back down on some of Real ID's deadlines. Initially, Congress had intended the rules to take effect fully in May 2008.

But in proposed rules last March, DHS offered a five-year extension, until 2013, for states to issue the new cards. The catch: to receive the reprieve, a state must agree to abide by Real ID regulations and submit a report describing its plans. Those that don't will find their driver's licenses disallowed at airports in May 2008.

Even the pro-Real ID states balked at that timeline, and the estimated $14.6 billion price tag for implementation. As a result, in the final rule released last month, DHS extended the deadline a second time to December 1, 2017. Only states that can prove they are well on their way to implementing Real ID qualify for the lengthiest deadline extension.

To take advantage of any kind of extension, states must request a waiver from DHS by March 31, 2008. DHS guarantees that "all states submitting requests will receive extensions until December 31, 2009."

Some states have decided to split the difference by requesting a temporary waiver to avoid inconveniencing driver's license holders at airports and federal buildings--but while having no obvious intention of ever complying with Real ID.

Washington state, which has a law forbidding the governor from going along with Real ID in its current form but nevertheless has requested an extension, falls into that category. So does Idaho. Jon Hanian, spokesman for Idaho governor C.L. "Butch" Otter, echoed the remarks of several other state representatives when he said: "We've asked for an extension, but we still have serious concerns and reservations about it and its future here is to be determined."

In Maine, questions but no answers
Luring tourists to picturesque Bar Harbor, Maine, isn't exactly a desk-based job.

Chris Fogg, the executive director of the town's Chamber of Commerce, frequently heads to tiny Bangor International Airport to attend events like cruise-ship conventions in Miami and tourism trade shows in Washington, D.C., and New York. Those are excellent ways to promote the bayside town of about 5,000 residents, he says.

Fogg's no fan of Real ID. "From what I've heard, there's a lot of misinformation about all of this stuff, when it comes to Real ID (or the Western Hemisphere Travel Inititative)," Fogg said. "None of those things necessarily make the border safer or travel safer."

Airports haven't yet figured out how they're going to comply with Real ID. A spokesman for the Los Angeles International Airport referred enquiries to the TSA. So did the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

Maine's largest airport in terms of the number of passengers who use it is Portland International Jetport. Jeff Monroe, director of ports and transport for the city of Portland, which oversees the airport, is waiting for details from the Transportation Security Administration. "That's obviously in hands of the Transportation Security Administration," Monroe said. "If TSA comes to us and says, 'OK, here's the line for Real IDs and here's the line for everybody else,' I'm sure that'll become quite apparent very quickly, and I'm sure we'll have to figure some way to adapt."

But Monroe thinks that politicians eventually will respond to an outcry from air travelers. "The reality is if there's any inconvenience to the traveling public--if all of a sudden as soon as they see Portland, Maine, on the driver's license, the first place you go is for a full body cavity search--sooner or later the traveling public will say to the political leadership, 'My life is not easy here, this traveling experience is not good.'"



105 comments

Join the conversation!
Add your comment
Look at the free states on your map! I see Dixie!
Dixie says no, baby. I, for one, prefer to keep as much freedom as
possible.
Posted by TogetherinParis (317 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Check your history book again
Since when were Maine, New Hampshire, Montana, and Oklahoma in the Confederacy? Those last two weren't even states back then. South Carolina is the only one that I see; they've never had any love-loss for the federal government.

Next thing you know, DHS will suggest planting ID tags under your skin to track you like a house pet. This whole idea smacks of fascist Germany in the 1930's. Our politicians are a bunch of short-sighted, ignorant buffoons!
Posted by Get_Bent (535 comments )
Link Flag
Eat a good meal first
That way they have a little extra to find during the full body cavity search. I figure if it's going to happen,make the most of it :)

Remember, the TSA tool isn't the one to yell at at the airport, you want to scream at your congressional representation for going along with this. No, I don't work for the TSA, I just sympathize with them since I'm sure they're yelled at everyday for simply doing their job of enforcing arbitrary rules. That does make them a bunch of tools (if the gov't) though :-)
Posted by menty666 (53 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Calling it a job
Calling it a job doesn't make it okay.
Posted by Lee in San Diego (608 comments )
Link Flag
TSA
I agree that the screener on the line is just doing the job they are told to do. Just like the Nazi's of the 1930's.

Have you found a polite one yet that doesn't seem to enjoy the power they have inherited?
Posted by kenny-J (53 comments )
Link Flag
That great sucking sound you will hear is....
The huge amounts of people refusing to fly. When the US airlines go bankrupt, then only Pack-it-to-stan and Sow-deea airlines will be able to fly. I personally account for $10,000 a year in airline tickets that will not be used in the US. Just refuse to fly till they get real again. No problem, and it is good for the ecology! When will they go after the problems and quit punishing everybody? It is getting to be time for a revolution again where we hang the politicians from that sour apple tree...
Posted by Expat type (30 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Hillary will make us buy air tickets and insurance??
The common thread seems to be that government knows best and they will force you to do what is good for them and you....UNNH-Huh! Right!!!!
Let us hope that one does not get elected. She fits right in with all of my ex wives and Homeland Security....and as they say in Louisiana.............I Doan Believe!
Boycott Flying in May....The Tea Party lives!
Posted by Expat type (30 comments )
Link Flag
Actually
That great sucking sound is the Bush Administration, it really
sucks.
Posted by Lee in San Diego (608 comments )
Link Flag
I've already started
Ever since they started doing semi-strip searches, I've become
more reluctant to fly.

If I feel like being treated like a criminal thug, I'll go down to my
local jail and ask for a strip search.

I realize some people will pay to be treated like crap - -not me.
Posted by m.meister (278 comments )
Link Flag
REAL ID is a real sham.
I am 100% sure that someday a hacker will build a scanner to scan people walking around and suck up their juicy info.

Cameras on building corners will have scanners on them as well to pick up this data.

Everything about you. Health records given at a moments notice and you are not aware of it and not notified
as you do not have a choice in the matter about who scans you.
Posted by inachu (963 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Already there...
You can do this really easy with cheap software for smartphones and PDAs. The same software shipping companies use to track RFID on packages.

Of course, this may not be an issue with RealID if they "Actually" removed this requirement. However, anyone that swipes it or has physical access to it will be able to get any of your personal information on it. This would be a one-stop shop for identify fraud.
Posted by umbrae (1073 comments )
Link Flag
Federal ID
So the federal goverment can not enforce the states what do in regards to state identification standards, but seem to get around it with the clause the federal goverment will not accept as ID unless it has been certified.

When do you need an ID for the federal goverment? Shouldn't my passport cover any federal need?
I guess maybe an I-9 form
Posted by vio1234 (3 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Passports....
I believe the article states US passports will work for states that have filed for an extension, but not sure what that means long term.

RealID is supposed to be required to enter a federal building or when traveling (i.e. planes, border checks, etc.).
Posted by umbrae (1073 comments )
Link Flag
What else??
Can a federal government issued Resident Alien Card (aka "Green Card") be used as a Read ID compliant identification?
Posted by HiTechP (2 comments )
Link Flag
Federal ID
Your passport is fine if you travel overseas its much easier all around. The ID is cheaper and will cover people traveling into MX and bordering countries. Try traveling to Europe and Asia now without a passport. It will not happen
Posted by doninvest (6 comments )
Link Flag
OMG! more ID on my wallet?
okay. unless this ID replaces my driver's license, passport, and citizenship card, I oppose this idea. How many ID's do I have to carry to travel?
Posted by plee9 (39 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Papers, please.............
'nff said.
Posted by kenny-J (53 comments )
Link Flag
Citizenship card?
What's a Citizenship Card? I've never heard of that one.
Posted by ktmotox (72 comments )
Link Flag
Get a passport!
Now I feel justified having gotten passports for every member of my family, even though not everyone has immediate plans to travel outside of the country.
Posted by dman1800 (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
not a fan of transmitting my data to everyone
I'm not a big fan of transmitting my data to everyone because it is
more convenient for our gov't. That is essentially what the new
passports are designed to do.

Oh, and yes -- it's for your protection. Seems everything is "for our
protection" these days. That's a phrase used when anyone
questions the abuse of our gov't.
Posted by m.meister (278 comments )
Link Flag
I guess that makes me a criminal and a terrorist.
Of course Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff is far too narrow minded and lacking in historical knowledge to see that he is fulfilling the role that the Gestapo filled in Nazi Germany. DHS is one of the worst things to happen to American personal liberties, and this RealID is just one more tool they are using to grind the common man down.

Follow the money and you'll understand the real reasons behind RealID - it's not to protect Americans, it's to make a small group of Americans rich, and enable self-serving senators and congressmen to keep their plush jobs.
Posted by Dr_Zinj (727 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Well said
I posted something similar below about becoming a Police State.

I have not heard any candidate running for President who has said anything against this "National ID" besides Ron Paul.

This country is going to rot from the inside out if we don't do something about it.

The American People have lost complete control of their government. It has been hijacked and we are just going to sit back and watch it happen.

Go to www.ronpaul2008.com if you even care about this country anymore.
Posted by BruceLawrence (90 comments )
Link Flag
Vegas Cubs Scan barcode already
If you go to a club in Las Vegas, be sure your date doesn't enter at the same time, unless your date is your wife.

Some nightclubs here use your driver's license not only to verify you are of drinking age, but compile a list of individual names, address, and time of entry by scanning your license.

If you are accused of a crime, it might be the perfect alibi, but if you are cheating, a clever divorce attorney could sopoena these records and show who you were entering with.

As this practice becomes more prevalent, there will soon be a more complete record of your every move.

Of course, you have nothing to hide, rigt?
Posted by disco-legend-zeke (448 comments )
Reply Link Flag
We are turning into a Police State
This is unbelievable. I can't believe I'm living in a country that is the "light of the free world".

This has been coming for a while and the warnings have been there all along but nobody listened.

Ron Paul has been telling us its coming and each time he does he gets snickers and laughs from the rest of those cookie cutter people who claim to be "conservative republicans".

This isnt about terrorism. This is about the US Government wanting control of our lives and forcing themselves into it. They have no business doing what they're doing and the sheep of the US are going to sit back and let them do it too.

Its time to fight back and elect someone into the White House who wont even attempt to do this to the American people. Ron Paul.
Posted by BruceLawrence (90 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Re: Police State
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

Is their any doubt that what is happening here is not for our protection, or in our best interest. At best it's misguided attempt, and at worst its an evil conspiracy.
Posted by Renegade.Rivers (721 comments )
Link Flag
Ebough about Ron Paul
The man doesn't have a snowball's chance in heck of winning, so just get over yourself and stop reposting his name every other message.
Posted by PzkwVIb (462 comments )
Link Flag
"Light of the free world" no more
To be frank with you guys, I don?t call the United States ?the light of the free world? by any stretch of imagination. And I live in Brazil ? a much ?freer? country:

? We make no difference between a foreigner and a local in terms of criminal law, incarcerations and access to lawyers;

? We do have unrestrained Habeas Corpus;

? No surveillance of any kind without court order;

? No incarcerations (and pardons) by Presidential fiat;

? A tax auditor cannot put a hold on your property without a court order;

? At last but not the least: airport screeners are mostly nice people.

Want to see freedom? Go to Holland. Ok, Holland would not be there if it were not for the USA liberating it during WWII. But that was another USA that is no more. This is sad.
Posted by mscatena (8 comments )
Link Flag
Federal Reserve to Rule America
To get to the bottom line here, folks, the Real ID act is just one more attempt by the Federal Reserve to control America by way of our own government.

They need to know where everyone is and goes at every hour of the day and night in order to prevent revolution. And these banker, they know this.

And none of the so-called front runners, save Ron Paul, have done anything to prevent the Federal Reserve from taking control of our country. They would rather kiss butt and sell their own people down the river than stand up and fight for our freedoms.

The peaceful answer to all this is very simple. It's within the power of all of us to effect. Hit them where it hurts--in the pocketbook. Don't fly, don't pay your credit cards, and watch the economy tank. Then Congress will be forced to show us all where their loyalties truly lie by acting. And then we'll know whether the outcome is going to be bloody or not.

One thing that really bothers me is the fight with the IRS. I'm growing more and more convinced each day that the issue is merely being used as a way to ferret out and prosecute, indeed, jail those individuals who are the staunchest patriots among us.

It's easier and safer to not pay your credit cards. If they garnish your wages, and according to my sources within the banking industry, that's a big IF, just find another job. It costs the banks a lot of money to serve papers on your employer each month to continue the garnishing, and if you quit and find another job, it will cost them even more to find you.

Let's remember who we're really fighting here and exploit the loopholes. If enough of us take one small action in not paying our credit cards, we might just avoid a bloodbath in taking our country back from those bankers who mean to rule.

M.L. Bushman
Posted by novelator (35 comments )
Link Flag
RE: Real-ID-means-real-travel-headaches
"Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff even went so far as
to say that only criminals and terrorists should be "disappointed"
with the Real ID rules."

Well strap me to a hog and roll me in the mud. According to Mr.
Chertoff I must be either a criminal or a terrorist.
Posted by protagonistic (1870 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Federal ID
Its about time we need to stop illegal entry and unknown people in this country. If they had done this in 1984 the last time they tried to stop illegal entry, we would have slowed down people coming in and would not have the mess we have today.
Posted by doninvest (6 comments )
Reply Link Flag
The Next Step
Think this is something, the Bushkies probably will insist on Real ID or a passport in order to cross State lines pretty soon.
Posted by spruceman (38 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Bushie's?
From what I understand, Real ID grew out of recommendations of the 911 commission. The 911 commission was created by Democrats to politically attack the president. Real ID is the Democrats idea, which fits with their love of big intrusive government.
Posted by ktmotox (72 comments )
Link Flag
Remember who insisted on creating DHS
I am a absolute appalled by and opposed to this RealID as anyone here, but I want to remind everyone that it was the Democrat (or maybe it should be "Republicrats") that insisted on creating a new Department that would "do something" to protect us. The Bush administration was heavily criticized for dragging its feet on the enabling legislation.
Posted by wlamia (8 comments )
Reply Link Flag
actually..
Bush created the Office of Homeland Security (OHS) in 2001. The
Congress, foaming at the mouth to appear patriotic, created the
Department of Homeland Security a year later.

The true irony is that Republicans (who were in control of the
Congress) seemed to forget their whole small government
platform and created the 3rd largest department in our gov't.

Not that the Democrats have anything to be proud of, not very
many stood against the measures, since any opposition was
characterized as unpatriotic.

However, the Republicans do deserve the brunt of the
responsibility. It was their Congress/President and it was the
exact opposite of everything they stood for in the past. Under
their watch, we have the largest government ever.
Posted by m.meister (278 comments )
Link Flag
You're Mistaken
Here's the legislative history:

March 21, 2001 H.R.1158, to establish the National Homeland Security Agency, introduced by Representative Thornberry., REPUBLICAN

September 21, 2001 S. 1449, to establish the National Office for Combating Terrorism, introduced by Senator Graham. REPUBLICAN

October 10, 2001 H.R. 3078, to establish the National Office for Combating Terrorism, introduced by Representative Hastings. DEMOCRAT

October 11, 2001 S. 1534, to establish the Department of National Homeland
Security, introduced by Senator Lieberman. DEMOCRAT (WHO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SUPPORTED IN HIS RECENT REELECTION BID)

May 2, 2002 S. 2452, to establish the Department of National Homeland Security and the National Office for Combating Terrorism, introduced by Senator Lieberman. SEE PREVIOUS

May 2, 2002 H.R. 4660, to establish the Department of National Homeland Security and the National Office for Combating Terrorism, introduced by Representative Thornberry. REPUBLICAN

May 22, 2002 S. 2452 ordered reported by the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee. REPUBLICANS IN CONTROL OF THE COMMITTEE

June 6, 2002 President Bush announces intention to send Congress legislation for the purpose of establishing a Department of Homeland Security. REPUBLICAN INITIATIVE

June 24, 2002 H.R. 5005, to establish the Department of Homeland Security and for other purposes introduced by Representative Armey (by request). REPUBLICAN

July 24, 2002 H.R. 5005 reported, amended, H.Rept. 107-609, Part I, by Select Committee on Homeland Security. REPUBLICANS IN CHARGE OF COMMITTEE

July 25-26, 2002 H.R. 5005, after consideration and debate, passes the House. REPUBLICANS IN CHARGE OF THE HOUSE

November 19, 2002 Senate passes H.R. 5005, amended, Vote ... 90-9. REPUBLICANS IN CHARGE OF SENATE

November 25, 2002 President Bush signs P.L. 107-296, the Homeland Security Act of 2002. REPUBLICAN SIGNED IT INTO LAW

mark d.
Posted by markdoiron (1138 comments )
Link Flag
Real ID, what next?
With the implementation of real ID how much longer will it be before the Geheimstaatspolizei require travel permits between states, checkpoints at state lines, or ID chips implanted in our hands or arms? What's coming next? I thought the people of our country would have had the foresight to vote down this insult to our freedom. Evidently not.
I say Hoorah! for the non-compliant states. Thank God I live in one.
Posted by Vintage Wings (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
the key
the key to stealing your rights is to taking them a little at a time.

Mix in a little fear mongering and presto! You've got the
makings of a true police state.

Sure, you have no more freedom left -- but don't you feel safer?
That is unless you say something to upset someone in power,
then it's off the Gitmo. Laws and citizens' rights don't get in the
way there.
Posted by m.meister (278 comments )
Link Flag
See FreedomToFascism.com
For more explanation of where this is all going, see Aaron Russo's
documentary movie, America: Freedom To Fascism:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://freedomtofascism.com" target="_newWindow">http://freedomtofascism.com</a>

The movie is linked up free from the Director on Google video...
Posted by libertyforall1776 (649 comments )
Reply Link Flag
witnesses to the end of democracy
We have failed to learn anything from recent history.

As such, we are now witnessing the slow end of democracy, at least as
far as our founding fathers were concerned. They distrusted gov't --
now we know why. They were careful not to put too much power in one
branch, now we know why.

No -- instead, we'll have a police state. We may hold elections (just like
Iraqis did under Saddam) where the outcome is already decided (hmm,
Saddam got 100% of the vote in Iraq). It will all be a sham to make us
feel like we "are free".

Our rights are evaporating faster than a puddle on a hot summer's day in
Arizona.

All of it is being done in the name of freedom and security. All the "other
democracies" that could help us are instead taking our lead.

I feel a great sadness as we, the people, have so readily given up our
freedoms for the false security promised to us by men who were waiting
in the wings with their plans, waiting for just the right moment and
conditions to spring their plans on our country.

We have failed to heed the warnings that history. I feel ashamed.
Posted by m.meister (278 comments )
Reply Link Flag
The end of democracy?
Oy! Where does one begin with this drivel?

First of all, this country is not a democracy. Never was, never will be. We ARE a democratic REPUBLIC and there is a vast difference there. If you don't know what those differences are might I suggest you get yourself to the nearest library.

Second, you show me an instance where any American President received more than....65% of the popular vote and maybe your whining will mean something.

Next, tell me a single right that you have lost. Tell me one. You can still vote. You can still protest and seek redress of perceived wrongs. You are still allowed to post utter nonsense such as this. All this without the threat of government reprise.

Just to be clear, air travel is not a right. Hell, travel is not even a right. I don't know of any legal language within the Constitution which states that people are allowed to travel freely between states without requiring some sort of documentation. If I am wrong there then please let me know. Assuming that I am right do not take the fact that there was never a roadblock to traveling across state lines without being required to provide documentation as a right.

You, like the vast majority of the loons, seem to have this amazing talent for creating rights where none existed previously.

That said I do agree that the Real ID system is a joke. We already have a national ID card in place. That would be the Social Security cards we all have and they are worthless. We were never supposed to give them out and now we have to give out those numbers as well as our birthday numbers just to open a bank account.

What truly makes no sense is that as of May-08 I, and many like me, will suddenly become "persona non-grata" simply because my state would have decided to not participate when in fact the people who simply cannot wait for May-08 are the terrorists who have proper ID's.

Literally, this is building the castle wall around the enemy camp.

One of the stupidest, and most costly, errors in judgment to date.
Posted by magicman73 (188 comments )
Link Flag
Real ID
Bush created the most onerous Federal bureaucracy yet with DHS. No oversight, no accountability, pass unfunded mandates to the States, clog airports. None of the presidental candidates have even touched this. I suppose it means that we'll be stuck with this nightmare till doomsday.

Even if it was announced in 05, DHS just released the regs--300 pages no less---, so how would the States know what to comply with without the regs?

Think it's bad from the passengers side? You ought to see it from the airport's side. Each little dictator from TSA at each airport gets to decide for him/herself what regulations (not talking Real ID now) mean and what the airport has to do to comply. We have TSA creep--they are taking more and more terminal square footage without paying for it, the passengers pay for it through PFC's.

Getting a passport is not the answer---they'll find some way to make it unallowable except to cross the border.

Thank god my life is coming to an end---I fear we are headed for National meltdown, the Constitution can go to hell, the Feds will take over everything and issue jack boots to the civil servants. I never thought I'd live to see a federal agency as frieghtening as DHS, it ain't gonna get better, pardners.
Posted by kenny-J (53 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Disband Heartland--Oops, Homeland--Security
Department of Homeland Security should be disbanded. Everything they want to do, including much that borders on unconstitutional, is in the name of fighting terrorism. And those of us who would fight for our privacy and constitutional rights are branded as being soft on terrorism. Disband this ill-named office (am I the only one who thinks of "The Heartland" from that TV show where the Communists took over the U.S.?) and fire the employees.

--mark d., CMSgt, USAF, Retired
Posted by markdoiron (1138 comments )
Reply Link Flag
I've always thought...
the Department of Homeland Security sounded like a politbureau from the heyday of Communism.
Posted by kenny-J (53 comments )
Link Flag
I agree 100%
Even the naming of calling it HOMELAND SECURITY was taken from HITLER when hitlers rise of Facism came about. Everything that Germany has done USA is doing it now but this time not for just USA but applying this to the WORLD. Spreading of religion and commercialism = World War 3.

Even sons and daughters of parents who were Holocaust survivors are on the terror watch list.
This is not right!
This is security RUN AMOK!
My version of security would put USA in a defensive stance and become the country the world loves once again.
Posted by inachu (963 comments )
Link Flag
Homeland-insecurity
I agree, homeland security should be abolished, this
organization
is a waste of taxpayers money and as you say, it infringes on our
dwindling rights as citizens. I am fed up with this so-called war
on terrorism. The more I dissect 9/11, the more it looks like an
inside job, and I am not kidding. The Bush government is the
real "Axis Of Evil". This fear factor perpetrated on the people is
working on the idiots who will not or cannot think for
themselves and believe every lie the media lays on them. They
killed Kennedy and got away with it....we need to get "mad". I
know I am!
Posted by maxfield jones (2 comments )
Link Flag
buy guns and ammo
for the day is coming that they will be needed....
Posted by likes2comment (101 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Right to bear arms
I asked my Dad, a longtime NRA member, what it would take for him to fight against a tyranical government. His answer was basically that he would not. Too many gun-toters are not even aware that 'the right to bear arms' has nothing to do with hunting or personal protection, and has everything to do with opposing an oppressive government.
Posted by ByteMuncher (1 comment )
Link Flag
Send
me the money to pay for one. I already pay for a Driver's License, don't need no stinkin' passport.
Posted by kenny-J (53 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Vegas isn't
necessary to human life or any ancillary needs. You don't like it, don't go there.

Flying on the other hand is a necessity for many business people, a major convience for vacationers, a major employer, not to forget that the US Government has been committed since the 20's to making air service a reality. So, they (we) will pay for empty seats.
Posted by kenny-J (53 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Not about Terrorism
I remember boarding a plane from LGA to DCA behind Governor Averill Harriman. The Nixon administration searched the brown paper bag in which the Governor was carrying his lunch. He laughed when I suggested that was the price he paid for being a famous democrat during the Nixon administration. Admittedly, this was an ear in which loonies really were hi-jacking planes to Cuba. Now they only need to threaten to do it.

Real-ID is not about terrorism so much as it is about demonstrating that one must now have the permission of the state to travel. This is only one of several power grabs by the governing class justified by terrorism.

Interestingly enough, one will not be able to travel within the US without a license from the state, while citizens of France can now travel through Germany to Austria without even showing a passport.
Posted by whmurray (15 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Not about Terrorism
I remember boarding a plane from LGA to DCA behind Governor Averill Harriman. The Nixon administration searched the brown paper bag in which the Governor was carrying his lunch. He laughed when I suggested that was the price he paid for being a famous democrat during the Nixon administration. Admittedly, this was an era in which loonies really were hi-jacking planes to Cuba. Now they only need to threaten to do it.

Real-ID is not about terrorism so much as it is about demonstrating that one must now have the permission of the state to travel. This is only one of several power grabs by the governing class justified by terrorism.

Interestingly enough, one will not be able to travel within the US without a license from the state, while citizens of France can now travel through Germany to Austria without even showing a passport.
Posted by whmurray (15 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Real Id
Guess what??? I will drive to where I want to go..forget traveling by air..forget going to Canada or anywhere outside the 48 states. Of course I am retired so I can do that. As a former traveling consultant I feel for those who have to travel for business..I suggest anyone that travels by air for vacations...don't do it for a year or so..maybe that will show the politicos where we stand on this.
Posted by pagardener (3 comments )
Reply Link Flag
 

Join the conversation

Add your comment

The posting of advertisements, profanity, or personal attacks is prohibited. Click here to review our Terms of Use.