July 5, 2007 1:33 PM PDT

Microsoft sings 'O Canada' amid immigration challenges

Amid challenges getting enough foreign programmers admitted into the U.S., Microsoft plans this fall to open a development center in Canada.

The new software development center will open somewhere in the Vancouver, British Columbia, area and will be "home to software developers from around the world," Microsoft said in a statement on Thursday.

"The Vancouver area is a global gateway with a diverse population, is close to Microsoft's corporate offices in Redmond, and allows the company to recruit and retain highly skilled people affected by immigration issues in the U.S.," Microsoft said.

The announcement of Microsoft's Canadian plans follows the failure of an immigration bill that would have expanded the number of foreign high-tech workers that could have come to the country each year under so-called H1-B visas.

High-tech companies have been pushing hard to get Congress to increase the number of visas they are allotted. In separate Capitol Hill appearances, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates made a strong plea for unlimited H-1B visas, while a Google executive credited the company's success to foreigners and called for expanded ability to hire them.

But so far, a broader feud has killed two attempts by the U.S. Senate to overhaul the immigration system, including a bump in the H-1B quota from a base level of 60,000 to at least 115,000. Silicon Valley wasn't pleased with all of the bill, but it was also counting on passage of amendments that would provide greater assurances that green cards for permanent residency come through and create new exemptions for foreigners with advanced degrees.

Now companies are left to hope that their congressional allies will pass standalone bills, severed from the larger immigration debate, to accomplish those tasks. Although a number of senators have indicated support for the tech industry's goals, others have taken an arguably more measured approach, proposing bills aimed at curbing H-1B abuse while upping the quota.

Microsoft spokesman Lou Gellos said that while the immigration issue was a factor, the company would be opening the center in Vancouver even if it were not for the immigration challenges. That said, Vancouver is particularly attractive since it is a short drive from Redmond, Wash., but not bound by U.S. immigration policies.

"It does help us address that challenge we have in the United States of hiring very qualified people, many of whom are graduating from schools in the U.S., but who cannot acquire the necessary documentation to work in the U.S.," Gellos said.

Microsoft plans to start with a couple hundred workers, but is looking for a spot "with room to grow," Gellos said. "We haven't finalized the actual facility or the site yet," he said. "Once we get an indication of where we can do the center, that will help us to clarify the numbers."

The software maker currently has just over 900 workers in Canada, most of whom are based in Toronto, where Microsoft has its local subsidiary as well as sales, marketing and some development staff. There is also a sales office in Vancouver.

Microsoft's move is hardly its first venture offshore. While the bulk of its workers are in the greater Seattle area, Microsoft has expanded its development efforts in recent years, adding efforts in Denmark, Israel, India, China and the United Kingdom, among other locales. Microsoft recently announced plans to expand operations in Bellevue, Wash., near its Redmond campus, and in Fargo, N.D. The company also has development efforts in North Carolina and Silicon Valley.

Microsoft Canada President Phil Sorgen said his unit had long pushed Canada as a great place for the software maker to do development work.

"We have burgeoning high-tech and software industries and a globally envied quality of life, and our cities represent exactly the kind of environment that leading information workers want to live in," he said in a statement. "This center will help Microsoft remain globally competitive while providing strong economic benefits to British Columbia and Canada."

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78 comments

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Go Canada
At least Canadians actually pay for microsoft stuff, often full retail, unlike apparently most of the other outsourcing/offshiring places in the world. And they apeak almost the same brand of English. And they arent going to build missiles using Microsoft's technology to bomb the US with . Seems like a winning combination.
Posted by gggg sssss (2285 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Microsoft to U.S. worker, we'll insure Canadians but not U.S. citizens
Great, go to Canada.

- You'll have to pay to insure every employee, frankly it's about time.

The fact that they are touting Canada, as their foreign destination, in retaliation for not giving unlimited h-1b, proves they can't relocate their business overseas.

Do you think Canadians are any easier on robber-barron corporations?

Feigning a knee-jerk reaction, is really quite humorous, the Mickey-soft comedy act is on tour. Actually changing you strategy because of an immigration issue, is actually quite dumb.

The writing is on the wall, the U.S. dollar is plummeting thanks to our deficit spending and a huge trade deficit. A few more years and gasoline will be 20$/gallon, and U.S. citizens will look cheap again.

Then formula-drinking-CEO's like Balmer will be able to see the "Road-Ahead".
Posted by Jake Leone (143 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Sorry, you don't seem to know what you're saying
1. Microsoft already insures all of their employees, even in the US.

2. Canadian companies aren't required to "insure" employees. Health insurance is funded via your tax dollars; (plus in the case of Ontario, employees have some additional amount deducted by law from their paycheck, I believe up to $800/yr now.)

3. Gasoline? Gasoline is much more expensive in Canada compared to the US. Whenever I'm near the border it's cheaper for me to cross the border to the US, fill-up there, then cross the border back to Canada. :-)

4. The BC government undoubtedly gave Microsoft a huge amount of tax-breaks to setup a major shop in Vancouver. So yes, Canadians can be "easier" on companies like Microsoft.
Posted by mbenedict (1001 comments )
Link Flag
Let's go North!!!
Let's see where this country will go without all the talented foreign workers.
Posted by joelam888 (300 comments )
Reply Link Flag
talented workers
May be the pollies and people will wake up and fix the education
system. Or maybe the companies will start their own education
system. Count on this though... the pollies and the businessmen
who sent jobs overseas will expect the undereducated American to
get on the two way firing line for the next war.
Posted by BobG(Tulsa) (2 comments )
Link Flag
Last I heard
Canada had much tougher immigration laws then the US.

Boohoo MS. I agree their is a shortage of QUALIFIED tech workers in the US, but with your fortune, you could easily give thousands and thousand of scholarships every year to boost those numbers.

Of course, maybe the problem is that few people want to work at an immoral, inept, and irrelevant company.
Posted by qwerty75 (1164 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Irrelevant?
If you want to say they are immoral and inept that is fine, but they are hardly irrelevant. Almost every move they make has huge worldwide consequences since almost everyone uses their software. I'm not saying that's good, but that's how it is.
Posted by biznatch11 (41 comments )
Link Flag
Scholarships to high school dropouts?
There're already so many available scholarships/financial aids, there're no excuses for the lazy boys.
Posted by joelam888 (300 comments )
Link Flag
Not really
"Canada had much tougher immigration laws then the US" - you heard it wrong.
Canada gives green card to qualified people even without sponsorship from hiring company. And there's no quote.
Microsoft does pay millions of dollors for scholarships.
Posted by aicastle (1 comment )
Link Flag
They want cheap hires
Microsoft wants to hire everyone at half price, I can't blame them I guess as its business. There is a reason they want to do this though, they need more workers to grow and they can hire twice as many for the price of American workers. I work in a tech area and they hire the foreigners there for about half the price.
Posted by JmboCov (11 comments )
Reply Link Flag
cheap hires?
I'm not quite sure I get what you mean by 'cheap hires'? There is little, if any, cost benefit to setting up shop in Vancouver.

While I agree that cheap labour is a driving factor behind outsourcing, the availability of skill labour is also important. If Microsoft feels they can't attract enough workers for its redmond office it makes sense to open in a country with more progressive immigration laws for their operations.
Posted by kyle.dionneclark (1 comment )
Link Flag
not true
simply impossible to find enougth qualified software engineers in the US - just try and see. This is not a MS-specific problem, it addresses the entire high-tech industry... not everyone can afford to solve it this way; nice to be the king, I must say...
Posted by alexthecat (2 comments )
Link Flag
Apple already has a Vancouver dev office...
...and hopefully more companies will follow!

But one of IBM's largest software laboratory has been in Canada (Toronto) for many years now. All told IBM hires more than 20,000 people here.

So really Microsoft is simply late to join the party... though they have a large sales office near Toronto as well.

America's foreigner-phobia is Canada's gain.

-m
Posted by mbenedict (1001 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Offshoring is the future
If not India, China, Russia, etc then Canada.

Take off you hoseheads! Go North, you knobs! :)

Michael Moore already offshored his web site to Canada, why don't everyone else do so as well? Michael Moore is the big pundit against offshoring, but he does it anyway.

I guess Offshoring to Canada is not as bad as Offshoring to India, eh?

Sucks to be in IT and Engineering these days, which is why I went back to college and earned a business management degree. All of the best jobs are going out the door to another country.
Posted by Orion Blastar (590 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Make some sense
oooh, so his web site is in Canada! Wow, can you be anymore irrelevant?

I have a web server located in Toronto, who cares? So a few hundred dollars( or in Moores case, a few thousand) of mine goes north. Whoop di freaking doo. What are you going to whine about next, American visitors to Canada? I bet you shop at Wal-Mart don't you?

Business management degree? I guess you can't make any sense with "credentials" like that.
Posted by qwerty75 (1164 comments )
Link Flag
kidney
and I bet when Moore needs a kidney he will head of to China to get a freshly harvested one - check in hand.
Posted by gggg sssss (2285 comments )
Link Flag
Fall of an Empire poor USA! NO work anymore!
This is the result of the ridiculous republican party. I am really happy to see that Bill Gates is showing us that nobody need the US anymore.
Or you give a green card to the immigrants or the US companies will go abroad and they will be welcome. But , Americans will lose their job! To bad!Poor babies! One day, you have to pay for your stupidities. We ( I mean you) do not have your feet on earth.
This is the beginning of the fall of the Tiny Roman Empire that you call USA.
Great to make a movie:" The country who wanted to be an Empire" Laugh....Go Canada..Go Go Go! You will get the US very fast!They are already down!
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
The Democrats, you mean...
Bush and most republicans are pro-business and fully supported lifting H1-B and other visa restrictions. Cheap labor in the US == good for Bush & Gates.

Why do you think Bush wanted to give amnesty to all those illegal workers?

Democrats can't afford to lose support from Organized Labor (aka Unions), so they could never support immigration reform (whatever Kennedy says.)

Canada will "get" the US very fast?? That's a big laugh. Hint: currently we have a Conservative government here in Canada.
Posted by mbenedict (1001 comments )
Link Flag
Not the Republicans
The Democrats:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/964733.stm" target="_newWindow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/964733.stm</a>

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/656339.stm" target="_newWindow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/656339.stm</a>

Clinton took campaign money from China.

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/980518-prc2.htm" target="_newWindow">http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/980518-prc2.htm</a>

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/980521-prc2.htm" target="_newWindow">http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/980521-prc2.htm</a>

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19980517/13750184.html" target="_newWindow">http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19980517/13750184.html</a>
Posted by Orion Blastar (590 comments )
Link Flag
See ya Gates... now we can all go back to provding value and jobs
MS is nothing but a wealth reduction death star, sucking value out of the marketplace, destroying broader economic activity and the jobs that come with such activity and a wholesale importer of cheaper and crappier labor.

The fact is, American programmers see themselves as craftsmen and think about their career in terms of decades. H1Bs are here to make the whatever they can and go home exchange rate adjusted millionaires, retiring at 35.

I can only wish Gates would leave and take his little flotilla of junkware-producing opportunists and hacks and leave the American market to people who care about America and her long term well- being and the cooperative AND competitive advancement of computer science and technology. MS is a squatting sh*tting, filthy monopoly that holds on to market share by threatening competitors with lawsuits and strong-arming the competition through illegal practices, a charge they've been convicted of many times over by a court of law.

So get lost, Gates and take your H1Bs with you. Oh, by the way, Canada? Doesn't crap all over its citizens the way the US does, so you're going to have an even worse time importing cheap foreign labor up there than down here.

But don't let the door hit you in your (fat, sagging) a** on the way out.
Posted by asdf (241 comments )
Link Flag
Republicans are opposed to immigration in the US
Did you read and understood what I said? It's seems to me NO.
Bush was for the amnesty, but not the republicans.
Almost all the democrats was foran amnesty. 2 days ago the immigration blocked 60.000 h1b visas and you call that an intelligent thing to do. I think that big companies will go overseas. The dollar is weak and we have lack of low and high skilled worker,
It's simple as that !
The US is going down like the Titanic did!
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Republicans refused the Amnesty.
Republicans refused the Amnesty. Now, big companies will leave the country and you will lose your job. It's great for India, Asia etc... And Canada too. the EU do not need Americans , but the Americans need Europeans.
Republicans played with the immigration law.
Now, intelligent people like Bill Gates will leave the country because they do not have what they want here and a US visa is ridilous. Long waiting period, no family reunification etc.. Who do you think that you can have if you do not have a good immigration law. So far, the UShas a non immigration law. The proof is that the companies are leaving the county and now, you can be happy because you will do the job that you gave to Mexicans. Nice backfire. Bravo Bill Gates.
Instead to find an useless and crual invasion of Iraq, it would be better to take care of the US ! Now, it's too late.
Were do you want to do with a weak dollar, no healthcare etc...Just nothing !You do not even have long vacations like Europeans have. You need 2 jobs to pay your debts.You are done my friends and it's your fault.
You last chance it to make pressure on the government to pass an amnesty and no restriction on visas.If not, good luck!
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Link Flag
Do you hear that SUCKING sound???
Its your jobs going north, south, east and west!

But thats okay you don't care because you keep buying their products.

Remember Ross Perot?
Posted by Ted Miller (305 comments )
Reply Link Flag
MORE LIES!
All this crap about a lack of tech workers in the U.S. is pure lies. Salaries for CS graduates are going down, and not all of them are able to find work right out of college. At least that's the information I'm getting from an academic advisor at a major engineering university.

Microsoft rakes in billions in profits and yet they can't afford American workers? There aren't any qualified Americans? What a bunch of liars! I'm sure some of the graduates from my school who didn't have a job when they graduated in May would take a job with Microsoft -- even if they were given the horrible task of fixing Vista.

I don't know about the Canada story. A friend of mine wanted to live in Canada and got some work up there, but he had to leave when a qualified Canadian was found. That story doesn't seem to agree with this idea of a liberal immigration policy in Canada.

I will say one thing though, the enrollment in CS seems to be going down, and that's a direct result of these companies being unwilling to hire U.S. citizens. Who would spend thousands of dollars and years of their life on a degree, only to be turned down for someone here on an H-1B or offshored work.
Posted by chris_d (195 comments )
Reply Link Flag
It doesn't matter
Microsoft is using this as an excuse and to see if they can push the government to bend the rules for the H1-B visa. Either way you look at it US Software Developers lose.

If Microsoft were to "stay" (they really aren't going anywhere just opening a new office) they would being hiring foreigners via the H1-B program, not US Developers.

If they go, they will be hiring non-US developers either organic to Canada or non-US/Canadian workers who have what is ever the equivalent of a Canadian Workers Visa.

If I lived in Canada I would be concerned about the ratio of Canadian workers to foreign national workers that Microsoft hires. It may have the same impact in Canada as it did in the US, where Canadian Software Developers will find that they are unemployable because foreign national workers are willing to do the job at a much lower salary than the average Canadian.

As a previous poster pointed out, who wants to go pay for school to get a degree in a field no one will hire you in because they are unwilling to pay you a fair price for a fair days worth of work. The other issue is Universities are willing to give foreigners free rides with the understanding that they are going to take the skills back to their country and better it. While US students are not given the same financial opportunities. Its automatically assumed because you live in the US you have the money to pay for your education.

Personally I had to get a full time job and go to school part time in order to pay for my education. My foreign classmates were able to attend school full time because of scholarships and free financial aid.
Posted by rjpotts (70 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Excuse, Excuse, Excuse
Don't make excuses, dude. Your school doesn't give out scholarships or free financial aid to citizens? Or is it because you aren't smart enough? Wake up, this world keeps advancing every second. If you aren't going forward, you're falling backward!
Posted by joelam888 (300 comments )
Link Flag
source?
&gt;&gt; The other issue is Universities are willing to give foreigners free rides with the understanding that they are going to take the skills back to their country and better it. While US students are not given the same financial opportunities. Its automatically assumed because you live in the US you have the money to pay for your education.

Can you provide basis for this comment? Apparently you're speaking for 'all universities' even though you fail to cite a single one. The truth is that international tuition at many universities is up to 4x that of other students (in state, US, etc). You paint a bleak picture but your limited anecdotal personal experience doesn't qualify you to describe all circumstances and all cases everywhere for everyone.
Posted by Nizzuts (35 comments )
Link Flag
Sad - Push to hire foreign but skip U.S. workforce
The scenario is sad. In the United States we covet the foreign
worker under the guise that we need talent. Well, why not look
for an American worker or assist in creating a program to train/
qualify them? It is not just Microsoft but many other companies
that do this. Some years ago I looked into teaching in Canada
and spoke to the Ministry of Ed. I was told that they had to hire
their national graduates first. Ironically a friend of mine in Spain
was told the same thing there. Somehow our companies and
apparently lawmakers have their heads on wrong. We cater to
everyone else but our own. Interestingly it is not just in work. in
the late 1700's the Supreme Court was challenged with a case
that demanded they find if the United States was a Christian
nation. They spent 10 YEARS researching the case and
concluded that we were a Christian nation based upon the
multitudes of documents. Yet, although this fact was concluded
compare that with recent issues we are all too familiar with
regarding religion. Any religion but Christianity has rights in our
country- someone always uses the nonconstitutional "separation
of church and state". I compare this to the way that any foreign
national is sought in the business world over the American
national. It is as if we scoff at our own people and beliefs. Sad.
Posted by RodsterinFL (18 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Your US citizenship is hurting you? Funny...
Go to a random country and come back, see if any US companies will hire you simply because you're no longer an American.
Posted by joelam888 (300 comments )
Link Flag
Sad - Push to Hire Foreign and Skip U.S. Workforce
The scenario is sad. In the United States we covet the foreign
worker under the guise that we need talent. Well, why not look
for an American worker or assist in creating a program to train/
qualify them? It is not just Microsoft but many other companies
that do this. Some years ago I looked into teaching in Canada
and spoke to the Ministry of Ed. I was told that they had to hire
their national graduates first. Ironically a friend of mine in Spain
was told the same thing there. Somehow our companies and
apparently lawmakers have their heads on wrong. We cater to
everyone else but our own. Interestingly it is not just in work. in
the late 1700's the Supreme Court was challenged with a case
that demanded they find if the United States was a Christian
nation. They spent 10 YEARS researching the case and
concluded that we were a Christian nation based upon the
multitudes of documents. Yet, although this fact was concluded
compare that with recent issues we are all too familiar with
regarding religion. Any religion but Christianity has rights in our
country- someone always uses the nonconstitutional "separation
of church and state". I compare this to the way that any foreign
national is sought in the business world over the American
national. It is as if we scoff at our own people and beliefs. Sad.
Posted by RodsterinFL (18 comments )
Reply Link Flag
It Sucks to Be An Americian
Sucks To Be An American

As today my bed, house and food are gone,
I?d worked for all my life.
And I can't start again,
divorced by my children and my wife.

I?d thank my unlucky stars,
to be livin here today.
? Cause the flag now stands for greedom,
and my job has been taken away.

And It Sucks to be an American,
where at least I know, I?m nolonger free.
And I wont forget the politicians who lied,
who had taken that right from me.

And I sladly stand up,
next to you and defend her for big business today.
? Cause there ain?t no doubt THEY love this land,
God hates the USA.

Freedom gone from the polluted lakes of Minnesota,
to the deforested hills of Tennessee.
Across the litter strewn plains of Texas,
From sea to filthy sea.

From crime ridden Detroit down to drug ridden Houston,
and garbage strewn New York to gun slinging L.A.
Well there's greed in almost every American heart,
and its here and to stay.

That It sucks to be an American,
where at least I know, I?m no longer free.
And I wont forget the corporations who lied,
who taken that right from me.

And I sadly stand up,
next to you and defend her for the traitors today.
? Cause there ain?t no doubt THEY love this land,
God hates the USA.

And It sucks to be and American,
where at least I know I?m nolonger free.
And I wont forget the religions who lied,
who taken that right from me.

And I sadly stand up,
next to you and defend her for the wealthy today.
? Cause there ain?t no doubt THEY love this land,
God truly hates the USA!
Posted by Ted Miller (305 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Give up your US citizenship
or stop complaning/making excuses!
Posted by joelam888 (300 comments )
Link Flag
Good old America is gone ! Bye Freedom!
I agree with the person who said that he lost his freedom.

As I told you several times the $US is very weak and we have to much debts and enemies all over the world.

We only think about making war in other countries of course to IMPOSE DEMOCRACY WITH BOMBS ! It's a weird way to preach democracy. Now, We are thinking to attack Iran. If we do not stop that circus we will all perish by our own stupidities.

You can thanks the Republicans for what they did to the US. They brought you war, debts and a full of lies. That way you were and still under their domination like sheeps!

About freedom, forget it. You cannot even argue with a police officer or you will go to jail. In Europe you can argue with them ( But always stay polite of course) But you are free to speak! Here, you are free to shut your big mouth.

About jobs, we are screwed by the other countries. On that point, we can say good bye forever.

We are just good to buy products from abroad. WE do not produce anything anymore.

Everything in the house is made in China, Japan and Mexico. Take a look and let me know if you can see a product in your house with Made in USA on it.

Yes, it was not an Amnesty...It's the problem. An Amnesty would be good for the US!

We cannot make business with the world if we close our doors to immigrants.

We are going to be weaker and weaker until that the USA will die from their own stupidities.

But a lot of Americans continue to beleive in miracles and they always think that they are the most powerfull country in the world.

I can see that. For example, all good movies come from Europe...Why? Is it cheaper..? I do not think so. The Euro is high, but Europeans work much better.And the US shuted the door to new doctors , engineers etc...

Now, that we are against Mexicans and we do not have any new "Brains" we are just good to pick up the fruits if we still have some.

To bad that they did not make an Amnesty and open the doors to the new "Brains" I am afraid that it's too late now. Corporatioons will move abroad and will work with people who want to work!
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
H1B visa is a big joke !
Yes, it's a big joke. People who spent a lot of money to be an engineer do not want to wait for a "Quota" . They have enough of that game.
I approve them 100%.

Bill Gates did the right thing. It's a very good example to show us how the corporations are disgusted of that visa game

About lack of job for high skilled worker, it's normal. The corporations are abroad. We do not need those people anymore. And it will get worse.

Before to vote, think a little bit!
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
You want a good job, but do you deserve it?
It's not a secret that the US education is not great compared to other countries.

So, instead to play basket ball etc... I think that we have to learn more.

Do you speaq Iraqi? No of course ! But Iraqis can speak English. It's to tell you how low we are in education. You cannot get a good job without any knowledges.

I bet that the US president knows only how to speak (Barely English!)and no other languages
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Americans are giving up their citizenship
I read several things about that! And you are right, a lot of Americans living abroad are sending back their passports and are giving up their citizenship.
For several reasons.
One of them is: If an American citizen works abroad, he must pay his taxes in the country he lives and work and must still paying the IRS too!
What do you think about this one. It's freedom to rip you off!
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
I am not sure about the insurance
I am not sure about the insurance. But in my opinion, and I am a businessman, you must agree with the laws and Unions of the country where you want to establish the company.

In one word, you must follow the country's laws and hire people of that country. You can also hire foreigner for some special cases
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Excuses? joelam888 ?
Excuse me , but I miss something.On what post joelam888 attacked you?
Be kind enough to show me the post!
I am just curious, because accusing somebody of defemation is very serious!

By the way I am glad that you are happy with your job. Try to keep it!

Because as a businessman, I am not happy with my business. Since invasion of Iraq, everything is going down in the US except gas and everything you want to buy are becoming too expensive to survive here.

No healtcare, no doctors, no nurses ...

Retirement! Forget it we wil not get anything.

We needed an Amesty and open our doors to do business. But we have too many enemies now!

It's the reason why I will move abroad, because this country is to weak and I do not see how we can stop the deficit in a short term or even in a long term.

We have no buying power anymore and as we have nothing to sell...
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Moving to Canada is easier than immigrate to the US
Moving to Canada is much easier than immigrate to the US. They have a better organisation. They do not split the families like the US is doing. We do not have to wait for ever like the US do.
Some people must wait 13 to 15 years to come in the US to joint their family. It's ridiculous.
If we continue that way, we can say good bye to the US!
People have enough to wait for the Mighty America to accept them. The US will cry to have immigrants, but it will be too late!
Bad voting = bad party = bad economy =Bad country.
We are at war all the time for nothing. The US put a big mess all over the world .
You can see the result now. We are done.It's time to move on or to die in the US at the name of liberty! Great joke!
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
We don't want immigrants
We don't want anymore Mexicans, Indians, or Orientals. There are enough American laborers and American computer programmers right here.

The non-Americans can go back to Mexico, India, China, or wherever they came from.
Posted by Millerboy (104 comments )
Link Flag
Sucking Sound
Yes - Ross Perot for President AGAIN!!
Posted by BobG(Tulsa) (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Obviously not writen by someone who has worked much,
Obviously not someone who has worked for decades to build their life, family and community. "Real" Americans are not against immigration but are in favor of "legal" immigration. Everyone seems to want to come here now because of the society we have spent generations building but unregulated immigration will only assure that this society falls apart. Recent news item on Cnet showed company being lectured by lawyers on how to falsify job postings in order to bypass H1-B visa restrictions, now Microsoft is just another example of how major companies want to get as much for as little as they can in the labor market.
Posted by rwellinghurst (8 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Obviously not written by someone who has read much,
What the lawyers did was 101% legal. Plus, the job postings were not used for H1-B visas, they were for the PERM process for existing H1-B workers. Be informed when you read the news.
Posted by joelam888 (300 comments )
Link Flag
You are for immigration??
Do not lie to me! It's n insult!
USA is against immigration! There is no real possibily to come to this country or you have to wait years and years... The only way is marriage.
So the "Perfect" America push you to F...k a woman that you do not love to have a green card !And forget about family reunification. They are a bumch of Hypocrites. Very nice for a "Super Power"
Laugh!~!
Posted by bodart47 (17 comments )
Link Flag
immigration and the labor market
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.aapsonline.org/nod/newsofday346.php" target="_newWindow">http://www.aapsonline.org/nod/newsofday346.php</a>

What folks on this discussion fail to recognize is that immigrants are necessary. The native population in the US has been in decline since the beginning of the decade. The birthrate is below that required to sustain the current population. There are 2 reasons the overall population isn't in rapid decline:

- longevity. Rates of longevity are on the rise. Average lifespan is increasing but is still skewed by infant mortality, which the US still has in abundance despite being an extremely weatlthy nation.
- immigration. The immigrant population as a percentage of the overall population has doubled in the last 40 years.

What is more significant is the fact that the working population is in rapid decline. Boomers represent the largest demographic in the US and will be retiring in large numbers over the next decade. Jobs will continue to be plentiful (US unemployment is again at a historic low), but those of working age will be required to pay for the services needed by a huge elderly population.

Skilled, qualified immigrants are the key to this country's prosperity - unfortunately too many conservatives continue to believe the FUD, disinformation and xenophobia that is rampant on the right.
Posted by Nizzuts (35 comments )
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