Microsoft eyes ads as consumers close wallets

(continued from previous page)

Microsoft has been building its own engine for targeted ads, known as AdCenter. The product, originally code-named Moonshot, combines context of what a user is searching for with demographic information about who is doing the searching. Initially, Microsoft is using AdCenter to serve up keyword-based search ads. However, the company has said its ambitions go much further.

"Today, it's keyword," Joanne Bradford, Microsoft's chief media revenue officer, said in an interview last week. "We believe in the future it will be about display (ads), video and all that is advertising."

Top Microsoft executives, such as Gates and Chief Technical Officer Ray Ozzie have also been calling for the company broadly to get more revenue from online advertising. Microsoft has already outlined two new ad-driven services: the consumer-oriented Windows Live and Office Live, which is aimed at small businesses.

Goldman Sachs analyst Rick Sherlund said Microsoft needs to consider a wide array of new models, including both advertising and subscriptions.

Candidates for freedom
Works, he agrees, is a good candidate to be offered for free and supported by ads. "They could deliver this as a service and get minimal ads and be money ahead," Sherlund said in an e-mail interview. "This would be market expanding."

Microsoft would likely see similar benefits if it offered Money, its personal finance software, as free and ad-funded, he said.

"I think (Microsoft) should not be afraid of offering most of their products in all three modes."

--Rick Sherlund, analyst, Goldman Sachs

But other software is better suited to being hosted on a server and offered up by subscription, Sherlund said. Still, other users, particularly business users, are likely to want software that they can run on their local PC, ad-free and without having to be connected to the Internet.

"I think (Microsoft) should not be afraid of offering most of their products in all three modes," said Sherlund, whose analyst firm has done banking work for Microsoft. "Better to cannibalize yourself and block competitors than have others step into the market unopposed."

The OneNote note-taking program represents an interesting example of, at the extreme, the types of products that could be funded by advertising. In one of the papers, Microsoft notes that it is trying to create a whole new category of software, something that is "not easy to do."

As a purely desktop application, it is maybe not in the first category of software likely to be thought of as suited for ad-based conversion. But, the Microsoft workers noted, it is also one of the Office application that users keep open longest (second only to Outlook e-amil).

"Since advertising revenue depends roughly on time used, this means OneNote has substantial potential," the paper posits. Plus, the authors noted: "OneNote's low sales to date?mean that so far, there's little risk of cannibalization."

But Pang isn't sure advertising is the answer. There are already so many Internet ads, that he thinks computer users will just get overloaded if their desktop software starts spitting out solicitations as well.

"I don't see how marketers will want to take that risk when there are so many more effective ways to reach end-users," Pang said.

Pang has a different idea. He suggests Microsoft and others should partner with service providers, who could underwrite some of the cost of software and integrate it into what they do. For example, your bank might bundle Microsoft Money with its own online account tools. Or perhaps Comcast Cable might pick up some of the cost of software for managing digital photos and bundle that product with its TV and Internet services.

There have been some examples of such pairings, as many Internet service providers have in antivirus software. That has a double benefit of adding to the perceived value of the subscription and helping to keep bugs out of their networks.

There have been other online examples. SBC Communications, for example, has its partnership with Yahoo, in which high-speed and dial-up subscribers get additional Yahoo features and services as part of their monthly fee.

"I see that type of bundling much more effective and palatable to the users," Pang said.

[winmanjr]

Who said you could?

First of all, I for one have no interest in being bombarded by ads that I didn't seek out, and didn't request.

Second, the item: "The product, originally code-named Moonshot, combines context of what a user is searching for with demographic information about who is doing the searching."

Who gave them the demographic information? If Microsoft is sucking it off of your machine, that's invasion of privacy. Exept of course the MS EULA pretty much requires you subservience to whatever MS decides is in your ("their") best interests.

Of course consumers as usual have no voice in what they are spoon fed. If the majority of vendors are doing it then voting with your wallet won't have much impact either.

So much for freedom of choice.
What do you think?

[R. U. Sirius]

What I think is...

>Who gave them the demographic information? If
>Microsoft is sucking it off of your machine,
>that's invasion of privacy.
>Exept of course
>the MS EULA pretty much requires you
>subservience to whatever MS decides is in your
>("their") best interests.
>Of course consumers as usual have no voice in
>what they are spoon fed. If the majority of
>vendors are doing it then voting with your
>wallet won't have much impact either.
>So much for freedom of choice.
>What do you think?

I think I will no longer use Windows. Imagine Microsoft as Claria, the Ulitmate in Spyware, logging everything that you do on the desktop.

No thanks.

[mckoss]

Clueless Memo Author

The article states that an internal MS memo cites the $2 per copy cost Microsoft is charging per copy of, say, Money. And then jumping to the conclusion that $0.67/year in ad revenues with generate the same revenue stream for Microsoft. Can someone really be that clueless?

If Microsoft is OEM-ing Money to be bundled on PC's for $2 per PC, then they are making much more than $2 per USER. When I get a new PC, it is so loaded with crap it takes me a couple of hours to delete it all. The vast majority of it is uninteresting to me [as a side note - I wish PC manufacturers would STOP this annoying bundling practice and just give me plain-vanilla Windows].

So, how many users actually use a particular bundled program? Maybe 5%-10%? Microsoft is really capturing on the order of $20 per actual USER. This expected usage rate is factored into the negotiation on bundled pricing.

So, if MS switches to an ad-supported model, they will have to capture $20 in revenue per year from that user to break even. For an untargeted ad (which would typically be the case for users of a generic program like Works or Money), I doubt MS could get more than $0.05/click. So, a user of Works would have to click on 400 ads per year to pay for it.

I don't see it. Would YOU click through on an ad every day? And even at optimistic click-through rates, you have to be shown 100's of ads per day to find even one per day that was on interest to you.

It doesn't make economic sense (to me), and you're going to alienate your customers since you'll have to make the ads obtrusive enough to get click-throughs in order to make them valuable.

A difference in definition...

There's a little confusion here in the term
'user' as it is used in the memo. You're
interpretting it to be someone that 'uses' the
software -- thus if 10% of the people that get
it OEM for $2 use it, they're getting $20 per
user.

However, the memo is actually the Microsoft
definition of user: an individual that is used
to generate profit for the company / a profit
generating unit. In this sense, every recipient
of the software is a 'user', whether they fire
up the application or not. Further, you
presuppose that you could avoid the adveritsing
in question by not using the application, but I
think the idea is that by receiving the
application you'd be enrolled in an advertising
campaign and the advertisement would be
delivered to you through other applications
(e.g., if you have MS Money installed
financially oriented ads pop-up in your browser,
IM, or on your desktop).

[Bob Brinkman]

re: Would YOU click through on an ad every day?

Have you ever set down at the average home user's machine and seen the melee of adware they have installed? All MS would have to do is have one banner that said click here for 1 gajillion free smiley's and they will make a mint on the add revenue.

[Heymull]

pre-loaded crap

>I wish PC manufacturers would STOP this annoying
>bundling practice and just give me plain-vanilla
>Windows

I just bought an Acer laptop (TM4402WLMi NoteBook Turion 64 AMD ML-30) and it has no garbage apps, just WinXP Pro.

More manufacturers should follow their lead. And more consumers should support mfg's like them, not follow HP/Dell in lockstep!

[Captain_Spock]

Is It That Redmond...

... has reached its limitations as the opening paragraph of this article reads; "Although Office and Windows continue to produce vast revenue and profits for the Microsoft, some of the company's other well-known consumer titles are generating only a trickle of business". Yet they are talking about entering the Services arena... What has happened to I-N-N-O-V-A-T-I-O-N-S... out of Redmond -- as per the example below:

Synchronising Software for PDAS - 10/17/05 @ 09:22

Task: Synchronising Software for PDAS

Description: It is already possible to connect to two of the major strains of PDA: Palm (via the Palm desktop) and Psion (via the add-in to NetDrive). However there are no synchronising applications. I would like an application which takes data created on a PDA (principally Psion EPOC, since I own a 5mx) and convert it to and from application formats available for OS/2 (principally SmartSuite, since that is my main productivity Suite, but also OpenOffice). I'm sure that connectivity for Microsoft handhelds would be useful to somebody as well.

Current Bounty: $0

Sponsors: none

Submitter: Stuart Gray

Posted by: Kim Haverblad

, and coming from:

http://www.os2world.com/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?category=58&id=1129533770

[Captain_Spock]

From the above...

From the above it must be quite apparent that Redmond now has a confromtation at hand for delivery on SOA (Service Oriented Architectures) with StarShip "Enterprise Warp" with Commander DATA (for Enterprise Search) on board. Three to beam up IBM!

[Bill Dautrive]

What has happened to I-N-N-O-V-A-T-I-O-N-S... out of Redmond?

What innovations are you implying ever came out of Redmond?

[bluemist9999]

Isn't this just making Works a type of spyware?

If we start with non-targeted ads, what's to say the next version of Microsoft Works/Money/etc won't use targeted ads to make more money for Microsoft. And the best kind of targeted ads (i.e. those that make the most money) will use information from the Windows operating system to monitor user behavior.

Sounds like Microsoft is considering an approach that may well lead to Windows having lots of preinstalled spyware, or at least spyware hooks to increase Microsoft's profits.

To me, that makes using an Ubuntu Linux desktop a much more attractive alternative unless I need to use Windows-specific software.

[xeroply]

Just what I want --

-- personal finance software that uses "demographic information" to show me advertisements. Oh goody. The temptation of misusing personal financial data is just going to be too great, no matter how much someone promises they won't.

Has Microsoft ever thought that maybe consumer software growth is so slow because most of the stuff out there is about 1 notch above trash?

It would be interesting to compare some really good consumer software with the mediocre stuff and see the difference in revenue and growth.

[PolarUpgrade]

Sounds like a bit of P-R spin to me

Anyone who has seen the Works package as offered in OEM form since say 2000 will know that it has for a long time been far more an "advertorial" effort than a "here's real software effort." The reasonable impression one gets is that Works is NOT INTENDED to make money as a sold item; rather, it provides starterware that seems aimed at directing the end user to payable and repayable features. As for the Money software, that appears to be a buy-each-year proposition, as is some of the other date-dependent software supplied in Works proper. We may presume MS makes Money on Money by tieing in financial services, which we may presume it charges financial firms to do. This article suggests a positioning of Works--which isn't intended to make money itself quite obviously--as a "no money maker," perhaps as a prelude to making it perpetual pay webware. We may presume that too many end users were not rebuying the stuff Works routed them to.

[thedreaming]

Deja Vu?

Is it just me or havent' we gone through this before? It seems like the 'golden age' of the internet is coming back, where ad supported services were all over the place and internet access was free, so long as you could stand looking at banner ads.

Microsoft works isn't a good package. it's such a bad package that one version of works can't even read the files from a previous one. Talk about lack of backward compatability!

[Captain_Spock]

EUREKA! EUREKA!

With Synonyms such as - Invention, Discovery, Finding, (a Worm Hole in the Empire's once thought impregnable ship's armour) New Insight, and a Breakthrough with Open Office 2.0 (WOW). Captain's Log: StarDate 2005-11-16 As Warp Ships are launched under Voice Type Commands: Computer - Wake-up Please; Launch Open Office ( http://www.ecomstation.com/openoffice.phtml ) with Open Document Standards at MS Office (for free for universal freedom from perpetual lock-ins... Whoooaaa! What a astonishing COUP DE TAT! It must be "pay back" time!

[Captain_Spock]

As iIt Appears...

... open source or not the "1000lb Gorilla" that OS/2 is it will stretch those "bars" apart and make for those desktop spaces... Hello Houston! Redmond Has A Problem! Beam us up quickly this is no FUD!

Forest for the trees

Maybe, they should just SELL a coy of the software for $2 to the end user. No ads, happy customer, Microsoft get revenue. Maybe its time to fire their marketing manager since (s)he can't seem to see outside his/her own cubicle.

Consumers do not want ads, (Making out desktop apps additional points of spam) will just cause consumers to delete the apps, and look for non invasive apps elsewhere. If MS is TRYING to loose the desktop, then the strategy is brilliant! Carry on!

Tom

[rcrusoe]

Ad supported programs + ad blockers?

I've got no problem with ad-supported software. Especially
since it is easy to block the ads. I keep a list of what I consider
safe ad supported Windows software for my friends and provide
them with a host file that prevents the ads from being
downloaded.

I'm sure that if MS starts giving away ad-supported software,
there will be a wealth of MS adblockers spring up on the net. So
after a while few users would ever see the advertisements.

Perhaps a better solution would be for MS to start selling their
products at a decent price. IMO, $100 for either Windows or
Office ($200 for both) sounds like a fair price.

Personally, I don't care. Years of supporting Windows has
convinced me to avoid it like the plague. All my computers are
Macs or Linux.

[volterwd]

That would likely

violate the terms of agreement... and quite probably be illegal

[Michael Grogan]

The real strategy is obvious

Corporate America has been desperately trying to get ads onto our desktops for years. This is just another M$ gambit in that direction. I see it as just another reason to never use ANY M$ software or buy ANY pre-built computers; they're just junk anyway. If you can't build your own just talk to your friendly computer tech. You'll be amazed at what kind of bargains Dell, Hp and the rest aren't.

[Stating]

Ad Supported For Certain Markets

Microsoft's ad strategy might work in certain situations. It's probably true that middle and upper-class folks won't go for it, but that is not the total market. Some markets might welcome MS ad supported software in order to get the application software for free. Parents might find it compelling to install these apps on little Johnny's computer. Non-profits, libraries, and start-ups are also candidates. Lastly, 3rd world developing countries that are currently pirating MS app software, assuming MS finds an unhackable method to deliver the ads.

[Captain_Spock]

Talking about "3rd world developing countries"...

What ever happened to the "Starter Edition" strategy from Microsoft; perhaps, a different strategy now with Linux, Open Office, FireFox all being available for free, Microsoft should also now consider offering an ads supported "Starter Edition" for free -- offering any additionally required productivity "applications as a service" (software as a service) from which revenue may be derived.

[Masterchris11]

Is it Really a Surprise?

Who would pay for some of that microsoft software. There are usually better alternatives than paying full price on a microsoft product. There are other brands out there that are just as good, if not better. There are also free software that you can download that accomplish the same tasks as the expensive ones. You can also find scripts that can convert any file to another file for free. A third option would be to get OEM Software. some places sell it on online and its super cheap for the same program, but normally you dont get a warranty or tech support or any of those extras. Sometimes the software can be bundled with a hardware product which can save to tons of money, you just need to look. My last point is that most people already have most of the microsoft programs, so is it really worth it to go out and buy an upgrade that hardly accomplishes anything worth your 50-100 dollars? No. Once you buy it, you should never have to buy it again. WE want innovative new products, not just "new" version of the same old programs. Just my 2 cents.

[Sentinel]

Increase in piracy?

From what I gather, they intend to make free, ad supported versions and commercial, no ads versions. All this will do is increase the piracy for the no-ads versions, because people don't like ads. In fact, if MS is really considering this, they should also consider dropping all support for MS Antispyware. Proclaiming to have a cure for a sickness you are also helping to spread? Definitely unethical. People will seek the no ad versions, and piracy will rage on as it always has. Besides, no one uses either Money or Works, or at least very few people do. Those who do, do so because the app came preinstalled in their PC.

[Masterchris11]

ad blocker

i dont think an Adblocker would be too hard to make. The Only problem would be if they made the software inoperable if it could not access the net or run its ad set. Im also sure that it would be possible to turn that ad bar into something useful - like having it scroll your favorite webpage instead of ads.

[R. U. Sirius]

There is no way

I will ever use a financial program (which contains my data) in an environment where non-targeted ads run rampant. This is just inviting the further spread of viri, worms, spyware, and all the other garbage that seems to be part of Microsoft's market strategy.

BTW, they want to emulate Claria? You have to be joking. Claria is spyware central isn't it?

[kirkjohnson]

then maybe they should offer them for free

maybe msft should offer product like money and work (at least the standard versions for free withthe incentive of using "extra" features or services from a web portal

[Llib Setag]

MS "INTUIT-ion" about MONEY

Windows 95 Big PR event & developer "upgrades" for the "OS of the future" (i.e. another small step towards the Mac OS)

INTUIT's Money app's developers were upgrading to "new & improved Win95" & Citizen Gates makes them an offer they couldn't refuse... MS buys INTUIT.
Citizen Gates: "nice little niche you have there in the financial-biz INTUIT".
INTUIT: "Thanks, but no thanks MS."

Presto-chango MS announces "new" MS MONEY app for Win95 & beyond...(huh, I wonder where they got the app-code for that one...?)

FLASH FOWARD 2005 : MS announces that it isn't really making any money with MS-MONEY. Gee, do you really think their mission was to make money with this? NO?
Smells like the FREE MS-IE produced to give the public "new options" instead of Netscape's Navigator.
Lost leader to suck money away from "threat of competition" until they go out of business.
MONOPOLIES HATE COMPETITION.

This time Intuit seems to have "out-pokered the MS-Sharks" at their own game.

You got enough money Citizen Gates.
Time to retire.

[Charleston Charge]

I seem

to notice it's the cool thing to use terms such as Citizen Gates and M$ and Windoze when referring to Microsoft. Jee, I sure wish I was 13 again.

[Hae-Yu]

They Don't Get It

The reason why Money isn't selling as well is because it isn't as good as it used to be. In addition NO ONE wants Money's online integration (or Quicken). Read customer responses on Amazon (Money or Quicken) to this trend in financial software from 2002-2003, 2003-2004, 2004-2005. You need a Passport account to use Money and people don't like it. The responses are increasingly negative. The problem isn't putting Money online, the problem is getting it offline, esp in this age of identity theft. They have been forcing people online and people don't like it. Not with MS Money.

I was using a 2002 version of Money last Christmas and it really impressed my girlfriend. She went out and bought the 2005 version. The online setup was so persistent she was flustered before she made it past the initial setup because she doesn't trust anyone(not just MS) with her financial info. Then she wanted to change her password. That was an exercise in hell. NO ONE TRUSTS online banking 100%. NO ONE TRUSTS others with their financial info, unless it is "others'" specific job. Money stores all kinds of sensitive information. Users don't want it online - they want it sandboxed.

Money needs only 3 versions - Regular Folk, Upper Middle Class Developers Who Don't Hire Accountants, and Small Business. The Basic Version is too Basic and the Deluxe version has too many features. There's no fine line. Quicken isn't any better.

Works' problem is that it suffered from both lite and old versions of software. They fixed the "old" part but now have to eliminate Standard/ lite versions. The integration is progressing, but it hasn't gone all the way to being a full-fledged Home Suite. Office has full versions of software. There are no basic, deluxe and premium versions of Word. There's Word. MS always looks at Works as a way to give consumers enough of a product to whet their appetite to buy the full stand-alone versions. When they do, the Money/ Streets-Trips/ and Encarta standalones don't integrate back into Works. The Deluxe software is all top-notch but the Standard versions aren't very useful.

I love the idea of Works. I just don't like the implementation.

Encarta and Streets/ Trips are the same. Much better than anything online, but it's just easier (and cheaper) to look things up online. Why 2 or 3 versions? Just sell 1. For $20. With 1 yr of updates and $5/ yr updates after that. There's your subscription revenue. They beat anything online hands down and you can take them anywhere you can take your laptop, whereas online access isn't available widely or cheaply.

The reason why the products aren't selling as well are many-fold, but the largest reason is that MS isn't focused on regular consumer software. Works as a Home Suite isn't even 10th class compared to the effort on Office. The perception is that Works is crippleware.

[BMR777]

What Microsoft Should Do - Windows Media Center

Microsoft should have an ad service called "Microsoft Clickthrough" for the Media Center PC. Basically, what would would happen is a program shows on TV and is received by the Media Center PC as the user watches. The ad will then become "interactive" where the user can clickthrough and go directly to the advertiser's site via the media center PC. MS would need to coordinate schedules with the Major TV Networks, and presumably get some of the profit from the ad, or get a clickthrough percentage. This way, when a user sees an ad on TV while on a Media Center PC, an ad which they would see anyway, they can click through it or make it interactive to learn more.

This way, also, MS Could push the Media Center PCs, have this ad system, and not encroach on user's personal data.

Brandon Rusnak
http://www.rusnakweb.com

[jmmejzz]

It can be amazing

what will happen when a company produces a product people want to buy. I always get the impression from stories and interviews that MS tends to focus too much on what consumers should buy and not what they want to buy. Just listen to the tone of this "memo", it's about maximizing revenue to MS not providing a product consumers would actually want.