Growing pains for Wikipedia

(continued from previous page)

Thus, to avoid future problems, Wales plans to bar anonymous users from creating new articles; only registered members will be able to do so. That change will go into effect Monday, he said, adding that anonymous users will still be able to edit existing entries.

That's less of a problem, Wales suggested, because changes are frequently vetted by members who keep watch lists of articles they want to ensure remain accurate--perhaps even articles they've written themselves.

The change is one of the first that would specifically limit what anonymous users can do on Wikipedia. And some may see that as a significant step for a service that's traditionally prided itself on letting anyone participate. But Wales said the move is not a major one because, as mentioned, most new articles are already written by registered Wikipedia members, and most anonymous users' actions are edits to published entries.

Currying disfavor
Meanwhile, the brouhaha surrounding Curry and the podcasting article raises new questions about whether people should be allowed to create or edit Wikipedia articles about themselves or projects they've been involved with.

"Wikipedia is so often considered authoritative. That must stop now, surely. Every fact in there must be considered partisan, written by someone with a conflict of interest," blogging and podcasting pioneer Dave Winer wrote in his blog. "Further, we need to determine what authority means in the age of Internet scholarship."

Curry deleted references to work presented by Technorati principal engineer Kevin Marks at the 2003 BloggerCon at Harvard University. But from Curry's perspective, conflict of interest had nothing to do with it; he simply believed the references were inaccurate.

And when he discovered they weren't, he explained in an e-mail to CNET News.com, he realized he'd made a mistake.

But that "doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion of the facts and change Wikipedia to represent my viewpoint," Curry said.

Wales said he's not sure how to approach the question of whether people should be allowed to post on subjects in which they have a personal interest.

"That's an interesting philosophical issue," Wales said. "Because on the one hand, particularly with things like podcasting, the people involved are people who know a lot about it, and on the other hand, when people are editing something they've been personally involved in, it can be hard for them to be neutral."

He added that traditionally, Wikipedia has discouraged users from participating in such entries and asks them to be mature and serious when they do.

"But we don't have a rule about it, because it's too hard to enforce, and it may not be a good idea."

In the blogosphere, however, Curry is getting beaten up for having edited out the Marks references as well as a sentence in which Stephen Downes had been credited with delivering MP3 files via RSS feeds.

But Curry bristles at the accusation that he was intentionally trying to deprive anyone of due credit.

"That I'm trying to inflate my role in the history of podcasting is a mean-spirited claim," he said, "and not based on the facts of my (Wikipedia) edits and entries. But the meme took, and now I'm the asshole of the week."

[digitallysick]

who cares?

i like wikipedia, i think its excellent, no banners, pop ups, a great source of info

[supadave]

Uh, does he not get the point?

This may not solve the overral problem, but why didn't he just correct the article himself? Isn't that the point of Wikipedia?

I don't know why anyone would get all up in arms about this. Wikipedia is a good resource, especially for pop-culter topics. However, it's not the only resource and should be treated as one of many tools for research.

that's what i'm saying over here

...tale is useful in continuing to draw attention to wikipedia, what it's worth, and what it's good for. But really, how can the guy whine about disinformation that lingered for four months *until he corrected it himself*...

I very sanguine about requiring registration for authoring.

[Bill Dautrive]

He didn't correct it himself..

because then he could whine and moan about something that could have been easily corrected.

[Hipenoone]

Apathy's Stench Runs Rampant

That's how everyone thinks, until the wolf knocks on their door. Remember, everyone will not be as savvy as you.

It's not enough to just correct the error; it (information based on ignorance)must be exposed for everyone's sake; for the unfortunately tainted and the innocent subsequent seekers of knowlege. Yours is the attitued that allowed the existance of African slavery for hundreds of years, the Jewish Holocaust and the unconstitutional imprisionment of Japaneese-Americans in WW II.

To this degree, he fullfiled his social responsiblity. Help keep the wolf from our doors. Stamp out apathy. Be aware. Be awake.

[Earl Benser]

Wikipedia has no credentials....

... it is nothing more than an amorphous compilation of
uncorroborated opinions by many people who have no idea what
they are talking about. Any truth in Wikipedia is an accident. So it is
nothing more than another form of blog, possibly interesting, not
likely true, and totally undependable.

You want truth -try the Britannica - it at least tries to be correct.....

[Nathan Lunn]

I suppose

the same could be said for replies to News.com stories.

[Bill Dautrive]

I have used it for many research papers

And have never found any blatantly wrong information, a few things that are slightly off base, but thowse are due to not completely understanding the subject.

It is not authoritative, but very useful as a starting point.

You are coming off like one of those arrogant people who believe only they know the truth. So you have read every entry in it, and are so knowlegable that you can claim that any truth in it is accedental? Pretty funny coming from someone who has made slightly ignorant and off-base claims about certain physics concepts on CNET.

[me_news]

Britannica has errors

Boy brings encyclopaedia to book
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/4209575.stm

[katamari]

In agreement about 90%.

I believe there's a large sum of people who contribute to Wikipedia who *do* have an idea of what they're talking about. I happen to be one of those people -- but I stay far, far away from sections which involve opinion(s), or whenever I second-guess myself as to facts vs. fiction.

But as I mentioned in another CNet Talkback item below, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter -- idiots (or vandals, as the case may permit) will always win. For every 100 positive/accurate Wikipedia edits, there's 1 mindless/moronic one, which eventually results in what was documented in the CNet article here.

But what really interests me isn't the fact that Wikipedia is an "uncorroborated compilation of opinions" -- it's the fact that it's completely ENTIRELY 100% succeptable to HTTP GET/POST worms of any kind.

Eventually, DDoS kiddies will manipulate their scripts and use the 100,000 compromised machines they have to edit/change/destroy Wikipedia in one foul swoop.

Trust me, folks -- it will happen, as long as Wikipedia continues to take the "anonymous is OK" stance. The instant they make it register-only (with actual registration confirmation, either via Email-back or via mangled visual letters), Wikipedia should become a "better" source of information.

Until then, take Wikipedia with a grain of salt. As for me, I'll be sitting in the corner, waiting for some IRC packet kids to completely destroy Wikipedia in about 30 minutes.

[emcourtney]

You just described the sum of all human writings.

So to put your trust in any of it is to trust only to chance. Yet
trust we do...

[DanielCD]

Completely disagree

Wikipedia is a fine resource, and to claim it's bunk and opinion is pure ignorance. I write frequently on Wikipedia and can testify to the integrity of everything I write. I watch all edits to my articles and several others. There are thousands of editors that do the same thing; dedicated people like me who do care. It is here to stay.

As for it being a resource, it is like any other source of information: it has ADVANTAGES and DISADVANTAGES. You just have to know how to use it. It is an excellent source for quickly locating information that is written in easy to understand language. MOST articles carry references for the material in them (ideally all should), and the facts of the articles can be checked through these references. Unfortunately, there are many unreferences edits, but the person doing the research can use Wikipedia to get an overview of the topic and then would have to find other resources to cite to confirm it.

Another thing is the community debate and interaction. Many edits are debated and discussed on the talk pages, and editors will confront others about unreferenced additions or edits. The interaction itself is an important part of the project and holds hints of the future of communication and information sharing. It is dynamic knowledge and debate. Opinion is not to be included in the articles, despite what the heresay is. What is opinion is removed and is often debated in the talk pages.

Also: people like me use Wikipedia to research topics they want to know more about. When I have to research a certain plant and write an article, I learn much more about it than just reading a book. Then you also have to contend with the criticism of other editors who point out any mistakes you might make. It's a valuable learning tool.

Sure some garbage slips though. You should come to Wikipedia knowing this and knowing that error is possible and that wile Wikipedia is not a primary source, it IS generally accurate enough to get an overview of any given subject. Besides, if you find any errors, sign on and correct them.

DanielCD

[plbyrd]

Conflict of interest is unavoidable

It is impossible to seperate people of interest from a topic of interest. Very, very rarely is it possible to find a person who can be considered an authority in a field that does not gain some kind of payment or reward for being an authority in that field. Anyone who spends their life dedicating themselves to a craft or field must expect to receive some kind of compensation for their time and efforts. Excluding these people from participating in their fields of expertise means you will have second-rate amateurs writing "authoritative" pieces on very important topics.

[batpox]

Unaccountable? Compared to what?

I use wikipedia as another source of information. I don't just simply believe it (or Newsweek or the WSJ) just because it is written. It's a wonderful idea and will be flawed just as any human endeavor is.

I don't know much about their accountability process, but perhaps they should adopt some web-of-trust model to score both authors and data.

[RSMeehan]

Contirbuter Reliability/Rating/Equity System

Why not have a system of rating contributer quality and reliability.

It might rank posts by long time members, and long time quality contibutors above those w/o membership or recent postings.

It might allow Wikipedia users to page rank the quality of the posts. It might prioritize those post from historically reliable contributors above those of nonmember, new posters.

[ronaldl79]

Give Wikipedia a chance

Personally, I believe Wikipedia (along with blogs) are quickly changing the landscape of traditional media and information distribution. Like all things that are freely available for consumption, there will be abusers.

Let's not discount the potential of Wikipedia because of a few bad apples. I hope the model of openness and accessibility doesn't change too much.

Ronald Lewis
Founder and CTA
Riverscape
www.riverscapecorp.com

[Earl Benser]

The potential....

... of Wikipedia is proportional to the quality and quantity of
editorial control within Wikipedia. So far, control seems to be
almost entirely missing. That reduces Wikipedia to an
unsubstantiated collections of opinions, sort of a super blog. No
more credibility, just a lot more volume.

[Bill Dautrive]

The issue is

That traditional media outlets and other forms of informations are being threatened by this. It is very much like Microsofts attacks on open source. OS is a serious threat to MS , so they attack it by any means possible.

Just like this joker could have fixed it himself, but that wouldn't be good since he could use it to whip up controversy. He blatantly misused it, and then uses his misuse to rail against it. Very funny.

[Len Bullard]

Use Semantic Web To Impute Importance for Notification

In distributed open hypermedia where the dominant quality is the speed of distribution of an assertion, one cannot rely on the wisdom of crowds. One must be able to get notification based on the seriousness or consequences of the assertion itself.

The semantic web has uses. Services have uses.

One of these will be an ontology of personal importance. What we learn (or knew) about the Internet as a medium is that it speeds up signal distribution but has no means to separate truth and superstition, something the mammals are often bad at with or without technology. The wisdom of crowds is only as good as enough people care and comment.

If an assertion is read but not vetted, it is just an opinion. The problem is not in finding the number of links but in using the number of links joined to the seriousness of the assertion to create automatic notifications to interested parties. Authority is not in owning the assertions but in verifying them. A record of authority is the statement of that vetting and verification.

If you ever have to implement an internal affairs module, the utility of those concepts is obvious.

len

[AimsAlpha]

All Hail Wikipedia

I have to say that Wikipedia is probably one of the best ideas on the net, up there with google, and cnet =^]. The fact that some of the articles may be false is not a very large problem. I think he probably should have made users register to begin with, but this may or may not resolve the "accountability" issue. Saying wikipedia is unaccountable is like saying CNet is biased to certain products, or google only allows you to see what pages they choose. Bottom line is wikipedia is no more reliable than anything else out there. lol, you can be an australian website and still have a ".us" domain name. I've gotten quality information from wikipedia on photography, software, and hardware specifications. I mean it has everything, so give it a chance.

^a10

[laurels]

what's the point?

Why should anyone give Wikipedia a "chance"? A chance to what? Get you into trouble?

Whatever you learn there has to be learned somewhere else too, why not just skip the first step and go straight to the reliable resource?

I don't see how anyone could argue that it "doesn't matter". Why not just skip looking things up and just invent your own answers?

There is more to Wikipedia than is being discussed!

Hello all,

I have a US$950 set of Worldbook Encyclopedias sitting on my bookshelf. Yet, when I need information on a topic I usually find myself going to Wikipedia instead of my bookshelf. This is mainly (but not entirely) because of one very important Wikipedia feature -- DISCUSSION (a.k.a. TALK).

DISCUSSION is an area that is attached to each article where all interested parties can discuss the factual validity of an article. While not necessarily in and of themselves valid sources for academic research, these DISCUSSION areas often contain lots of information that points me in directions I never would have explored otherwise. Take a look at the Seigenthaler article’s DISCUSSION page to see what I mean:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Seigenthaler_Sr.

Also, for people like Earl who seem to think that Wikipedia is the root of all evil, how many “prestigious” news organizations (ex. CBS News, New York Times, and Newsweek) have made more catastrophic mistakes of late? If you think that my argument is a logical fallacy, I invite you to use the Wikipedia articles on the subject to refute me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies

I have a rule of thumb that I follow no matter what the material -- If an outrageous claim (ex. one man is responsible for the podcasting phenomenon) is not cited then research the matter further and don’t form an opinion on way or another until research has been concluded.

newmsubob

[Earl Benser]

Recalibration....

... Wikipedia is too miniscule to be the root of all anything. Sure
every publication makes errors. Serious publications, especially
for reference sources, maintain major editorial functions to
minimize the potential of error. Wikipedia makes no overt effort
itself to be correct. And depending upon the mass of potential
authors to establish accuracy is the ultimate is hopelessly
wishful thinking.

By the way, only a desperate person would use a Wikipedia
article to prove or disprove anything. And as long as you are
doing actual research anyhow, why bother starting with
Wikipedia???

[jkoskovics]

Message has been deleted.

[jkoskovics]

The results of freedom of speech is sometimes just an opinion

The Wikipedia is a great concept. But like any other media, it needs to develop and correct major errors, along with issues that lead to malice, or unfounded accusation.

I myself found someone had taken information from my website on the Broadcast History in Northern Ohio, and posted it verbatim without my permission or credit. Additionally, gaping holes existed and incorrect assumptions were made.
The only recourse was to correct it myself, and fill in major holes and mistakes.

Am I upset with that, somewhat. More for the potential that someone may in the future build a model of history based on erroneous information if a qualified professional does not set the record straight.

But now, a step has been taken to prevent (or curtail), future mistakes. The Wikipedia project has taken a positive step towards improving its accuracy and integrity, but must do more to ensure accuracy and accountability.

For one thing is certain, Publishing without facts is simply an opinion.

And sometimes opinions can be dangerous.

[~amigosito~]

user participation requires accountability

The "scandal" facing Wikipedia is a problem that is endemic to participatory models in general. At Download.com (where I used to work), we routinely dealt with fraudulent and misleading user reviews, many of which were written by the developers of the software in question. Given the sheer quantity of user-inserted content on sites such as Download.com and Wikipedia, the problem is not one that can be solved through manual monitoring.

IMHO, eBay has the best working model for policing user activity. In particular, the ratings system given to sellers is an effective (not perfect) method for establishing credibility for content contributor. For this to work, of course, participation must be limited to registered users. However, in practice, a person such as Adam Curry could be flagged as an "uncredible" source of information if other users are able to see that he is the source of biased information. The key concept here is transparency of agency; the more we know about the person who posted the information, the better we can understand the inherent bias of that information.

[Earl Benser]

One more critial improvement......

.... would be to not allow any edits of a Wikipedia article, just
amendments, and these allowed only to registered and identifiable
authors. But that probably would kill the basic format. So Wikipedia
is damned if it does, and damned if it doesn't.

I guess we;re just stuck with a defective concept....

ATTN: Joseph and Earl -- Wikipedia has some problems, but...

Ask yourself, is Wikipedia more of a good thing or a bad thing? I say it’s a good thing!

As Joseph Koskovics mentioned, lack of proper citation (or outright copy and pasting without permission) is probably Wikipedia's largest flaw. I've had to bring this to Wikipedia's attention before. I think that Wikipedia should make a bigger deal to fist-time contributors about citation and copyright law alike. Also, I applaud the new article guidelines that are outlined in the Cnet article. We'll have to see if they actually stop the relatively small amount of misconduct that happens at Wikipedia.

As for Earl, I am curious... Do you hate Linux, OpenOffice, and coupons to your local Dairy Queen? :~)

Rawbertow

[Earl Benser]

Actually,....

Linux, OpenOffice, and Dairy Queen coupons are quality goods.
And I don't hate Wikipedia. I don't even care about Wikipedia. If
people think that it's a good thing, fine. People think that all sorts
of things are fine. I take a limited exception to seeing Wikipedia
masquerade as a reference source, but, hey, maybe that's as much
as some people can handle.

[annebot]

Adam Curry rips off everyone

Adam Curry ripped off my husband 10 years ago! He did it in a
similar fashion to this, it's not so surprising...

[PhilipJames]

How about Google!!!

I am shocked that for at least a month now, entering the word "failure" into google for a search brings up George W. Bush's official White House biography as the number one hit. Seems a little bit editorial for a search engine, don't you think?

[astronouth7303]

Bad, bad idea

I'm all for neutrality and objective articles. However, I think that by limiting, say, myself ([[User:Astronouth7303]]) from editing articles about [[FIRST]], [[openFIRST]], or [[CrystalSpace]], I think you're missing a crucial editor. No one else may bother to update those articles.

Granted, I may strive for NPOV more than others, and strive for the good thick-skin needed online. I believe that my point still stands.

[sudeshp]

Same result Even on MSN Search!!

It is not only Google, if you do a search on MSN search, you get the second result as http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html which is the "Biography of President George W. Bush". I am also clueless about this. I even opened the site to find if the link of word "faiure" with the content of the link but could find none.

I think it has to do with the search technology which Google and MSN are using.

Google and MSN Results Explained

When seaching for the wourd "failure" on Google, I saw a link entitled "Why these results?" in the Sponsored Links section. It takes the user to:

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2005/09/googlebombing-failure.html

I'm not a Bush fan by any means, but "googlebombing" is not a very nice tactic either.

rawbertow

[Joelshouts]

Heh

read google's methods for searching/profiling information.

[Joelshouts]

What?

I understand your opinion. There is no accountability for writings in Wikipedia. However, I really don't understand what makes it an uncitable source. It's a web site. Like any other. I can go to angelfire (if they still exist? you get the point), sign up for a free account, and blast whatever rubbish I feel fit to put on the internet. Aka an internet source.

I've used many interent sources for my research papers. There are many web sites with vaild information. Where is Wikipedia any different?

That being said, I don't suppose I would ever cite Wikipedia in a serious research paper. It would be unwise, for all the obvious reasons.