FAQ: What's next in HD video fracas?

(continued from previous page)

Q: What's next for HD DVD and its backers, particularly Toshiba?
Toshiba is undeniably bruised. The tone at the company's CES press conference reflected not only damaged egos, but serious disappointment.

The company responded after the Warner fallout with aggressively lowered prices. Now, Toshiba could continue on that path, plodding along, gaining as much as it can from having the lower-priced player on the market, but it's not the only tack it could take. The electronics maker has actually set itself up to duck the format war now by venturing into the territory of upscaling DVD players, says NPD's Erickson.

At $149, the entry-level player from Toshiba is only slightly more expensive than a regular DVD player that will output in HD resolution. Toshiba could choose to change its marketing strategy and sell the HD-A3 as a so-called upscaling DVD player which, for a bit more, also plays HD DVDs. Instead of the main draw, HD DVD could become a bonus feature: it's an entirely different value proposition to buy a regular DVD player which, as a bonus, is able to play HD DVDs for a slightly higher cost, as opposed to feeling like you're dropping $150 on a player based on a format that might not be around in a year.

"Logically, if they succeed in selling a number of standalone players, that's impossible to ignore. That's going to be a very strong argument in their favor," Erickson said. In other words, studios would almost be forced to pay attention.

Toshiba hasn't given any indication that this is the route it'll pursue, but it's certainly a possibility.

Q: When will I have to choose sides?
Not for a while. The problem is that the majority of us are satisfied with DVDs and therefore not in a rush to buy a more expensive video player that plays more expensive discs. The current technology is acceptable to the vast majority of consumers and more importantly, we're used to buying discs for $10 to $20. Spending $35 on a title whose quality is good, but not dramatically different, has been a tough sell for the majority of consumers.

That could all change as the natural cycle of consumer electronics churns along, as prices on components drop, and as studios are able to produce discs in larger volumes.

Q: When exactly will prices become reasonable?
It is a legitimate concern that a loss of HD DVD as a viable format could slow down the rate at which Blu-ray has been forced to drop its prices over the last year. But analyst Josh Martin of the Yankee Group says even without a serious competing format, the major backers of Blu-ray, who've stuck together thus far, will begin to compete with each other.

The 2008 year's holiday shopping season is going to be very important for this. NPD says it doesn't anticipate mainstream adoption--based on anticipation of a variety of players under $200 and less expensive discs, until at least 2009.

"Those guys want to gain market share," said Martin of the Yankee Group. "Individual companies are going to make their stance, and we'll see price drops by and large from most of the big CE guys."

[gsmiller88]

And let the flamewar begin!

It's only a matter of time before the fanboys are bashing each other
in the comments section.

[Seaspray0]

De ja vu

Several hours later... the only post is yours. Didn't you also post a "let the flame wars begin" in several other articles?

[gerrrg]

captive market.

With a format decided, there is no incentive to lower prices of media, either.

Oops, I spoke too soon.

Digital downloads will replace hard media at some point (On Demand is beginning to show movies still in theaters), and with the ability to stream all sorts of digital media to your tv and stereo, consumers might skip bluray alltogether.

A couple of terabyte drives from now, bluray could become obsolete itself.

[popsnie]

If they really want to win the DVD wars...

As a tinkerer of sorts, with computers for almost 30 years, and the proud owner of an HD-DVD player, I believe Toshiba could deliver a killer blow by simply making affordable hd-dvd burners available to people like me, who could truly appreciate the prodigious amounts of storage afforded by the hd-dvd disks for backing up data. I am sitting on over 3 terrabytes of data, and this would be a great way to back up irreplaceable files. Yes, I would love to be able to author high-definition DVDs, as well, and the dearth of available drives, alone, could push me over into the blue-ray camp. Come on, Toshiba, and when you do provide these drives, don't limit them to computer manufacturers/integrators. There are a lot of people like me, who have the experience, capability, and desire to put your drives to immediate use. This translates to increased sales to you, and will help to keep end-users, like me in the HD-DVD camp.

[bommai]

Don't understand your comment!

Do you have allegiance to Toshiba or something? Bluray burners have been available for a long time and since they can hold 50GB instead of 30GB for HD-DVD, that alone should be reason enough to get Bluray burners. I don't understand your argument. Also, many many manufacturers make Bluray hardware compared to HD-DVD.

[ewelch]

Nonsense

In Japan, where Blu-ray and HD-DVD burners are quite common
in households, Blu-ray is beating HD-DVD handily.

Blu-ray burners here are already down to $599. Too much, yes,
but how much are HD-DVD burners right now. Burners you can
pop into your computer and start burning. I know on my Mac, I
can get two different burners and my burning software (Toast)
already supports them.

How's it going on HD-DVD in the software sector? (I'm really
asking.)

[Miked350z]

Content is King

I'd say HD-DVD is not dead.. yet.. but with ONLY 2 studios, its viability is not moot. Lets remember what happened to another format war (DVD vs Divx). Anyone see any similarities?

Also, something this article does not account for is the ps3 'effect' Everyone that I know that owns a ps3 owns or rents blueray discs.

(I personally own a ps3 and over 100 blueray discs)

[markdoiron]

The PS3 Effect

I know plenty of folks who own Wii's and 360s. I don't know anyone who owns a PS3. And I don't know anyone who has bought or rented videos in either high def video format. Honest.

What does the preceding prove? Just that my experience is somewhat limited, as your own experience would seem to be.

--mark d.

[fredmenace]

True, but...

Don't forget that NOT ALL STUDIOS ARE THE SAME SIZE. And they certainly don't have the same size back catalogs. I don't know the exact numbers, but I believe that Paramount and Universal have HUGE back catalogs.

So the number of STUDIOS may be tilted in Blu Ray's favor, but the number of TITLES isn't necessarily - it could even become tilted in the other direction.

[Tim.b]

I'm STILL for REVENGE!!

I hope Toshiba continues to promote their version forever! I hope Sony and Toshiba bleed each other WHITE!

So long that they'll both be hawking their independent, ill conceived standards while feature rich, affordable HD downloads reach the mainstream.

I want them to PAY for every time they stuck it to the consumer with their greedy format wars.

Was that too strong? ;<)

T

[bfranco]

Bluray customers left to hang, HD DVD will live on

It's funny that everyone is declaring Bluray the winner simply
because of the Warner announcement. Well, yeah, they're the
winner alright, of a hell of a lot of used players from all the
bluray customers that are beginning to find out that their
players are in essence useless but a few months of spending
1000 dollars on the format.

HD DVD had it right from day one. They're accessible and stable
and in the end a million times better for the consumer. If in the
end, for some weird reason, enough people end up deciding
that the more expensive and useless format called bluray is
better, then you didn't spend much money at all and still have a
great upscaling DVD player to ignore the bluray ripoff until the
next format comes along.

Bluray seemed better, but in the end, it was HD DVD that had it
right all along.

[bommai]

My PS3 is rock solid

Say what you want, but 99.9% of the people like to watch movies and not use some fancy PIP commentary etc and online access. In fact most people don't have online access near their HT room (wired ethernet). Less than 1% of people use online access on HD-DVD players. So, calling Bluray Profile 1.0 as limited is just false. It plays all movies fine. Profile 1.1 and 2.0 are needed only for Bonus view and BD Live. These are not needed to watch movies. I have watched 100 Bluray movies and own 35 of them. I have never had problems with any of them in my PS3. So, calling Bluray limited is false.

I guarantee Paramount and Universal will be format neutral before 2009.

[ralfthedog]

The next format is here.

The next format is here, it is called Blue-ray.

HD DVD has a hard time with 1080p. Blue-ray has the space (And more importantly the bandwidth) to support 1440p and might be able to push 2160p. This is with software update to the current PS3. with a hardware update 2160p would be easy. HD DVD was obsolete from the day it hit the shelf.

1440p TVs have already hit some markets and 2160p is coming faster than you want to think.

Long live the Blue!

[timothywmurray]

Long Live the Format Wars!

While Blu-Ray is the most egregious they both are crippled formats that treat their customers as thieves and use DRM schemes that make no sense in a world of many nanny screens per person. And then there is the price point. I regularly pay $50 for a video game but for that I get dozens of hours (or more) of entertainment. A movie at $10-$20 is much more expensive per hour. And the $40 for Blu-ray is just a non-starter. Even if I watch it three times with my family of four we are only talking about 18 hour of entertainment. (yeah short movies are another problem I have with the studios.)

Forget the format war and the price war I want features and the feature I want is to be able to put the content on any screen. And DRM makes the disk about as helpful as a coaster.

[basraw]

When do we get to burn 25-50 GB BR/or HD-DVD discs?

I need storage content 25-50GB at least.

I have too many hard drives lying around.

I'd pay $10 for a blank disc.. just no COASTERS PLEASE.

[richto]

Yep - 1st format to release a decent cheap burner will win

Yep - 1st format to release a decent cheap burner will win

As soon as we can burn those HD movies from thepiratebay.org for a cheap price, the burner sales will go up ten times....

[jrm125]

You can now

You can now, but it'll cost you.

For example, a blank Blu-ray that is 50 GB
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.crutchfield.com/S-jyvBK8lVhwd/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=158BNR50AH" target="_newWindow">http://www.crutchfield.com/S-jyvBK8lVhwd/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=158BNR50AH</a>
is $47.99 (I didnt shop around, quick google search).

This is with the tech still relatively in its infancy and not yet proliferated. DVDs started out similarly. I wouldnt be surprised if this dropped substantially as more people bought into it.

[dhavleak]

Educate us: what's the difference between the formats?

How about an article educating users on which format serves us better? That's going to be a lot more useful than this one.

The 'customer visible' differences between the two formats (that are the basis on which we will end up making decisions) to my knowledge are:
- HD-DVD has a provision for making backup copies of a DVD for personal use and BluRay does not AFAIK
- HD-DVD doesn't have a 'profile' update or software update mechanism -- so nobody's HD-DVD player can become obsolete. BluRay however does have updateable 'profiles' and many people already own BluRay players that are obsolete because they lack the capability required for the new profiles even if their firmware is flashed.
- Anything else?

I might be wrong about those points. But my real point is -- these are the factors that matter to consumers. As a tech journo, you should focus on that instead. Help us decide. Please!!

[richto]

Not quite....here is a summary

You mean HD DVD does have a method for AUTOMATED updates over the internet - Blutamax doesnt...


Here is a list of advantages of HD DVD:


Blutamax has extra DRM included.

Blutamax is not region free unlike HD DVD.

HD DVD players have a network connection and can download interactive disks content and firmware grades automatically. Blutamax players dont and cant.

Every single standalone Blutamax player on sale now is already obsolete due to 'profile' updates needed (i.e. they couldnt get the hardware right first time round).

Blutamax has less capacity than HD DVDs 51GB disks

Lots of Blutamax films are encoded in the legacy MPEG 2 codec which measn the picture quality really suffers.

All Blutamax disks have to waste massive amounts of space on uncompressed sound tracks because Dolby HD support is not standard on Blutamax players.

You can buy an Xbox 360 AND a standalone HD DVD player for less than the price of a PS3. Dont put up with the PS3's inferior graphics and lousy games.

You can have a standard DVD on the flip side of an HD DVD disk. Dlutamax cant cope with that.

Oh and Blutamax players cost twice price too.

[www.hdgreetings.com]

Costco has HD-DVD players for $129

today i saw them in the store for $129.

the thing is, even if i were in the market for an upscaling dvd player at $79, would I even want to pay just $50 extra for a format that's dying?

people might consider that a waste of $50 rather than an added bonus.

i really wanted hd-dvd to win.

[jrm125]

Employees dont even want to sell them

I've been told by friends who work at BB, Costco, and CC that they don't even want to sell them because they all end up getting returned anyway as people realize it's a loser format.

Some stores that keep track of sales stats per employee...they REALLY don't want to sell them only to have their performance take a hit a few days later.

If you want an HD DVD player, raid the dumpsters behind Best Buy in 3 months.

[kasjun]

even better

amazon has them for 118.00

[ketjr81]

Blueray - HD DVD

hmmm so let me see, a bunch of comments from people who bought HD-DVD players? and arent happy with how things are going. just be happy you have an upconverting dvd player I guess?

[jimwarrick]

HD DVD Owner

I recently purchased an HD DVD player. Why? Because it was less expensive. I know the possibility exists that HD DVDs will be outlived by Blu-ray (you spelled it incorrectly) but decided it was worth the gamble. Worst case scenario I end up having to buy a PS3 to get Blu-ray.

I believe things are the way they are because Sony has deep pockets and that is it. For this reason I think it would be great if HD DVD won out. Is it probable? No, but one can hope.

Sony has a very bad history of being over priced and limiting much like Apple. Do they make good stuff? Yes they do but not any better than anyone else who can sell it at half the price.

[scottwilkins]

Blu-Ray is awful!

In the terms of the consumer, it's sad that Blu-Ray is winning. Blu-Ray, or "beta-ray" as most in the industry call it, is a very unstable platform. It's discs are physically inferior to HD DVD and DVD, and the players are slow and cumbersome. Not to mention that all rights to the content on Blu-Ray are completely removed from the consumer. HD DVD at least had "Managed Copy" ability. And HD DVD was a solid specification that has not changed from day 1. Yet with the "cool name", and a lot of lies in advertising Sony has won the consumer. HD DVD players would have hit $100 or less this year no matter what, Blu-Ray doesn't have a player worth owning under $400. And won't until after 2009, like this article said. It's a sad time for HD movies. Very sad indeed.

[zackinma]

ummm... bias and wrong..

as someone who owns both a blu ray and hd-dvd player, i need to point out that you are dead wrong on your points.

lets start with:
"Blu-Ray doesn't have a player worth owning under $400"
well how about the PS3. not only is it a blu ray player, and an upscaling dvd player, it is also a game console.

next untruth: "It's discs are physically inferior to HD DVD and DVD"
wrong again. blu ray disks hold much more data than hd-dvd disks. how much you ask. how about almost 20 gigaBYTES more. that allows for better quality uncompressed audio such as HD-DTS, and more special features.

next untruth:
"the players are slow and cumbersome"
nope. my PS3 boots up0 and starts playing a movie before my toshiba A35 (the best hd-dvd player money can buy) even says hello... which is slow and cumbersome you say?

next untruth:
"all rights to the content on Blu-Ray are completely removed from the consumer"
you have all the same rights that you have with DVD disks. given they did make it more difficult to copy and pirate the movies.
HD-DVD is region free and pirates love it for that reason.... could that be your real reason for all the blu ray hate? i bet it is.

[ralfthedog]

Managed copy is a joke.

Pick any HD DVD player on the market, pick any movie you want to back up. Now try to make a managed copy. You cant? Even if you could? Blank HD DVD-R disks cost as much as the movie you are wanting to copy, and they only have half the space needed to hold a movie.

If and when HD DVD burning players with hard drives hit the market (and if double sided HD DVD-r disks ever sell for less than $20), you can talk about managed copy (Hint, with the companies making blank media starting to abandon HD DVD this will never happen).

[bwtanker]

HD-DVD

Yes it is very sad that people are so easily led to buy the trash that Sony is backing.I have'nt bought a player for either format and have no plans of doing it anytime soon.For now i'll stick with my DVDs.

[technologyRules]

Don't Believe the Angry HD DVD Owners

They're just bitter that the format they've invested in is on its last legs.

It's a shame there had to be two formats to begin with and people are in this predicament.

However, I'm guessing many HD DVD owners bought on price alone. You get what you pay for.

[jrm125]

they're bitter

Notice there's only actually like 2 or 3 of them who post like 90 times.

They're upset and bitter. Everyone else is happily enjoying their Blu-rays.

[bwtanker]

HD-DVD

i did'nt buy an HD-DVD player and am not planing on doing it very soon.i support HD-DVD because Sony is pushing Blue Ray and i hate Sony.they have been in court at least 2 times for putting content on the disk that puts spyware in your computer to call home and stop certain things you might want to do with the disk

[bwtanker]

Invest

i did'nt invest in HD-DVD.I still use DVDs and i think Sony and Blu-Ray suck

[bwtanker]

Angry HD-DVD

I'm not an angry HD-DVD owner.all i have are DVD players and burners,i just don't like anything that sony trys to push on unsuspecting consumers.they have been in court numerous times for putting **** on their disks mainly known as spyware.I want nothing to do with anything sony sells are supports

[scottwilkins]

Don't believe stuffy Blu-Ray owners

Blu-Ray is not what Sony says it is. If you don't believe me, then try to find out how it's better technology wise. Space is not a technology, and movie studio support is not a technology. Sure, on those Blu-Ray is better (for now). In reality HD DVD blows Blu-Ray away, but studio execs didn't like region free and managed copy, so they sided with Sony in limiting the consumer's rights. Aren't you proud you lost your rights in buying Blu-Ray? I didn't think so.

[technologyRules]

Sony conspiracy

Right, this is all a conspiracy on Sony's part to take over the world with superior products that are simply too cool to use. :)

[bommai]

Bluray has managed copy also!!

Stop spreading lies. Bluray has managed copy also and Kaleidascape is already getting ready to support it. Peak bitrate is higher on Bluray and disks have mandatory anti scratch coating. This makes Bluray movies more rugged than HD-DVD. Many people are having problems with combo disks on the HD-DVD side. Just visit avsforums and see what I mean.

While I agree HD-DVD specs were solidified before Bluray's, that is not the only reason to support a format. Also, look at the consumer electronics space - do you see a whole bunch of companies on one side leading to vibrant development and one lonely company carrying the format on the other side. You decide.

[jrm125]

we arent stuffy...we're just happy we picked a winner

I'm pretty sure if you were in our shoes, you'd be happy too.

Sorry you're jealous/upset. You backed the wrong horse. Sell it while you still can.

[Mergatroid Mania]

organically running out?

Organically running out? What other kind of running out is there?

I must correct myself. In another talkback I mentioned that the HD-A30 only did 1080p at 24 fps. I got that from the CNET review.

Either the CNET review is outdated or it's wrong.

My workplace has started servicing Toshiba's HD DVD units. I'm very impressed with the quality.

From experience I can say that the HD-A30 does both 1080p 60 and 1080p 24.

To the point: $150 HD-A3 being close to the cost of an upconverting DVD player, I don't think so.

You can get a Toshiba upconverting dvd player for $60 if you look hard enough. You can get a DVD/VCR that upconverts, made by Toshiba, for under $100.

So, if you're talking 3 times the cost then sure, they're close.

Duel format players suck. Who in their right mind would pay close to a grand for a DVD player? HD or not.

A BIG problem Toshiba has is awareness.

A lot of my customers and friends ask me about HD. All of them know Blueray. The name is out there in a big way. Something I hear a lot after a mention of Blueray is "isn't there some other kind of HD too"?

People don't know HD DVD and they don't know Toshiba sells it.

Toshiba has three things going for it: 1 price, 2 better format and 3 they're not Sony. They have to do a better job promoting HD DVD to consumers.

Of course, it didn't help that Microsoft stabbed Toshiba in the back by not offering an XBox with a built in HD-DVD drive. But what else would one expect from Microsoft?

[fredmenace]

Agree, but

To your last point, I kind of agree, but not fully. I think Microsoft made the right decision on not building HD DVD (or any next-generation format) into the 360. Remember: the 360 came out a full year before PS3 and had a big price advantage (and was profitable for Microsoft much earlier as well). Forcing HD DVD into the 360 could have a) delayed its launch and b) significantly increased its price. It would thus have had little advantage over the PS3 in the marketplace.

On the other hand, I do agree that MS haven't done enough to push HD DVD. They should have made it almost difficult to buy a 360 WITHOUT a bundled HD DVD add-on.

[Mergatroid Mania]

Actually, in this case you don't get what you pay for

Why would you pay more for inferior Blueray? The quality is just not there.

So, you're actually getting better product by paying less for an HD-DVD unit.

Who do you expect people to listen to? The owners know what quality they have gotten. Should they listen to someone who is ignorant of the whole topic, like you?

[bommai]

False!!

I have had my PS3 since Feb 2007. I just bought a HD-A3 as an upconverting player for a smaller (37") TV. However, I tested the HD-A3 in my HT room along side the PS3 and I can easily say that Bluray movies (especially the ones from Disney) look better than Bourne Identity. More Bluray movies have lossless sound compared to HD-DVD. BD has more head room (50GB vs 30GB). Bluray has more bandwidth. So, quit spreading lies about quality. The HD-A3 is cheaply built compared to the PS3. The A30, 35 are not that much better either. Plus content is king!!!

[technologyRules]

Quality?

I don't understand your point. I paid more for Bluray - I got a high quality Sony device that renders high-def movies well. It has higher storage capacity, which is especially nice for my PS3 games, and scratch resistance. HD DVD costs less and you get less, IMHO.

[feliusrex]

Movie studios laughing at you.

When ever I read one of these articles, I end up thinking that the movie studios are just laughing at us. Not for the discussion of which is better HD-DVD or Blu-ray, but because they see a chance to make you buy Star Wars for the 5th time (VHS, VHS director's cut, DVD, DVD box set, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, ect ect ad naseum). The only way to 'win' the game is not to play. Don't buy either of the players, don't buy the movies in the new formats. Or if you really have to have a HD movie, wait till you can buy it used.

[Mergatroid Mania]

Actually, I agree

You hit the nail on the head there.

When I do buy an HD DVD player (which may be soon because of the price cuts), I won't be buying any movie in HD that I already own in SD DVD.

SD DVD looks great on my 42" LCD TV, especially those that were mastered digitally. I see no reason to repurchase the over 300 movies I own just to see them slightly sharper.

And, there is just no way in heck I will ever pay upwards of $30 for a new movie release on HD DVD.

So, if I do buy an HD DVD player (HD-A30) for under $200, I will be looking for HD titles I don't already own (that will be tough) and I sure won't be buying any new HD releases unless I can get them at the same price as the SD version.

You can win and still buy, as long as you buy what you want and need, not what they tell you you want and need.

[bwtanker]

Format Wars

you're the only one on this site that makes perfest sense,don't buy either.If more people would stick together and do thsi there would be a lot of changes,but every one is mostly from the me first generation.

[Starfires]

PS3

I know two people (including myself) who got a PS3 for it's high-def capability- not a lot, but it's something. The PS3 has been a good Trojan horse for Sony, though I can see digital downloads evening the playing field- something that, by the way, the HDD-equipped PS3 is fine for. I actually got mine partly for Hi-def Divx playback and Blu-ray when it's rentable, as I don't like the idea of buying every movie I want to see, when most of them are only worth one viewing.

[jrm125]

Blu-ray is rentable

Netflix has them (doesnt charge extra) and Blockbuster is going to them exclusively.!

[wildchild_plasma_gyro]

Obviuosness

Its to lenghy getting up and running a 45Gb HD drive and the backers see that they would rather put their efforts [erhaps moving Blue ray towards 75 perhaps 100Gb varieties.
This leaves Other complaining over Encryption systems issues which backer are lightly to push for a solution to after they've got enough momentum behind the standard.
Having a 75GB version would allow for movies Like Lord of the Rings to be properly printed and does leave hollywood thinking about how it could make some more extended lengh movies and leaves us consumers gutted they didn't think of this problem sooner when the hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy film was made because with some extended time and a bit more work and effort it could have been Great.

[samkass]

HD DVD prices go down due to demand and value

HD DVD players are going to keep dropping in prices as the
companies try to move inventory in the face of low demand and
reduced value (since it's basically going to be just an expensive
DVD player in a couple years).

Reporting dropping HD DVD player prices as if it's some sort of
game-changer is just disingenuous. Blu-Ray won, but c|net
knows it can get a few more ad downloads if they declare the
format war not over yet.

[Miked350z]

fire sale?

I'd agree with this comment. It makes sense for toshiba to
liquidate their stock. Although folks they dont do their homework
before purchasing will get burned. Thats what return policies are
for I guess. 2 studios will not and can not provide enough
content to keep hd-dvd alive :(

[jrm125]

HD DVD is cheap because they need to clean house

If they wait any longer word will totally be out to even the less than tech savvy that the format is a total loss. They need to sell it while they still can. Ironically, following the holidays, despite the fire sale of gear, Blu ray still came out on top.

No one wants HD DVD

[i_am_still_wade]

So sad, the better format will lose

HD DVD had less DRM which, by default, makes it better. But HD DVD had other things going for it too. No compatibility issues, ever. TL-51 HD DVD was never going to be made available unless ALL players past and present supported it. But it is amazing what $400 million can buy. That is how much the BDA paid Fox to stay with Blu. Without that, Fox was going HD DVD, and so was Warner, and Blu-Ray, the technology superior but real-world inferior format, would have lost. $400 million.

Before the Blu boys have a heart attack, I always wanted a Blu-Ray player. In fact, the only reason I even have a HD DVD player at all is $100. In other words, I want to be format neutral, I just couldn't afford it.

[technologyRules]

Bluray has the same DRM as DVD - what's your point?

I don't understand the DRM argument. I guess if the ability to illegally copy movies is a requirement - you better not choose Bluray.

[fredmenace]

No real guarantee it's going to lose

Don't forget that Paramount and Universal have huge back catalogs, so the number of titles isn't going to be much different between the camps even after Warner defected.

Also, HD DVD has persistent manufacturing price advantages for both discs and players. Those advantages are not going away, so HD DVD will continue to be able to undercut Blu Ray in price.

And Microsoft could still weigh in with a massive push of the HD DVD add-on with the xbox 360, let alone a model with HD DVD built in (no guarantee they will, but if they did, they could largely nullify the advantage given to Blu Ray numbers by the PS3).

[punterjoe]

why DVD is "good enough"

It's the content, not the format. The depth of titles on DVD make it hard to compete with. Sure, I'd take a pristine transfer in HD, but if it came down to it, I'd rather a VCD copy of a movie I want over a 1080p HD copy of a title I couldn't care less about.
With all the HD camcorders coming into the market, does either HD disc format have a way to play home-burned HD content? I'm not necessarily talking about real bluelaser blanks either, even a DVD/R with HD-format content would be acceptable for now, and make the players more useful.

[ralfthedog]

Yes, You can watch home HD video on a PS3

Just copy the files over to your PS3 hard drive (or stream them over using a media center).

PS. DVD is not good enough if you have a 72 inch or larger TV and a 7.1 channel audio system with speakers capable of reproducing uncompressed audio.

You have know idea what it is like when you come to the realization that your home theater sounds better than the best commercial theater in your town. (The popcorn is better at home too.)

[jrm125]

this becomes more and more untrue as time goes on

Around 50 million Americans own HD sets at this point. More will in the coming years. The fact is, DVD just doesnt cut it with HD sets.

And thankfully, upscaling is there to help in the interim. Blu-ray players do an amazing job with upscaling, as do HD DVD players.

[technologyRules]

Irony Alert - Toshiba & Sony developed PS3

The anti-Sony/Blueray camp will love this - Toshiba partnered with Sony to develop the PS3 microprocessor. Toshiba actually earns money from each PS3 sale! Both companies are partners in other technologies.

My hunch is the death of HD DVD isn't as big a deal to Toshiba as one might think.

[TruSlice]

IRONY...INDEED!!!

You have a most delicate point, in fact, it is to my belief that the two do more than make money off sony's ps3, but in fact they might have cooked up this whole format war in the first place. Seriously, how hard would it be to have a partnership where the only losers are the consumers? How improbable would it be to believe that sony signed a deal with toshiba to gain a certain percentage and vice/versa? Whatever format ends up on top (looks like bluray at this point), the other format would have still made huge amounts of money, therefore being a considerable profit to each side. Bottom line? We lose, big bad corperations always win. It's a concept that's hardly new either.

[ssratt]

HD will be the DATA winner

Thanks to the already cheap prices of HD players, there seems to be a good incentive for Toshiba to gradually add Pc Burners to the list, and win THAT war.
The disks are cheaper, hold more and the cost of a Blue-ray PLAYER, let alone a BURNER is ridiculously high so it can be an easy area for them to grab a year or maybe 2 price advantage unless the Blue Ray camp can go on a starvation diet and match their price

[ralfthedog]

Blue-ray costs less.

Cost GB/GB Blue-ray is cheaper.

[ralfthedog]

If you don't want to buy Blue-ray from Sony....

If you don't want to buy Blue-ray from Sony, just hold off until summer. You will be able to buy a Blue-ray player from Toshiba. Everyone wins.

:)