Cutting solar panels' high price tag

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Panel producers and installers, meanwhile, are trying to make the job of climbing up on a roof and connecting panels quicker.

Akeena Solar's Andalay panel is supposed to cut installation time from four hours to 30 minutes. It's also meant to be more attractive and look like a skylight.

Sharp Solar, the largest solar panel maker in the world, has started to promote a pre-fab solar system to the U.S. market.

First developed in Japan, the OnEnergy system essentially integrates everything--the solar panels, the racks on which the panels sit and the inverters (which convert DC current to AC current that can be used in a home)--into one package tailored for the home.

Contractors measure the roof and study the installation site, and then place an order with Sharp. Sharp then cuts the panels and pieces of the frame, drills the appropriate holes and then ships the kit for the contractor to assemble.

"They don't have to cut anything on-site," said Ron Kenedi, vice president of Sharp.

The savings come from the fact that the installer will spend 15 to 30 percent less time at the job site. Sharp talked about bringing the program to the States at last year's conference and will discuss how it is rolling it out more formally at this year's event.

Another way to reduce costs, of course, is installing the solar systems during construction of new homes.

Several home developers--including Centex, The Grupe Company and Lennar--have built homes with integrated solar panels. The homes have sold well, according to sales representatives for these companies. How much does it save? It's hard to say, but contractors say it takes less time to install a system during original construction, and time in this business is directly related to cost. Developers also can get group discounts by buying and shipping in bulk. (Because they are made out of glass, solar panels are expensive to ship.)

Some of these homes have used solar roof tiles. Solar roof tiles are integrated into the roof of the home and are aesthetically pleasing. However, they aren't particularly economical, points out John Berger, CEO of installer Standard Renewable Energy. The panels are more expensive to make and can be more complex to install.

CNET News.com's Michael Kanellos contributed to this report.

[Manhattan2]

Who feeds power back to the grid? Hardly anyone.

It looks like it is time to get some numbers:
In any given day that you are home how many people that have installed photovoltaic panels on their roof actually feed power back to the grid?
How much did your panels battery installation and all cost to deploy residential solar cost?
The answers to these simple questions is why rofftop solar will not work and why many who would like to go solar stay away. We can remove that hurdle. Saying a system is almost worthwhile because incentives from tax dollars reduce the cost is not helping the planet or our taxes.

[antblaster]

Please make an argument, not a rant

You start by saying "it is time to get some numbers" , but then
you don't give any.

I don't get the impression that you know very much about the
solar industry nor the associated cost/benefit calculations.

I can only speak for California, but:

Most residential installations are grid-tied and feed power back
into the grid during the day and take power from the grid at
night. In essence they are using the grid as a battery.

The financial numbers work very well for a large number of
homeowners who save money over a relatively short period of
time, increase the value of their home, and enjoy a better
lifestyle. To argue that their is something inherently "bad" for
these homeowners to achieve these benefits is silly.

The advantages of having a distributed generation capability are
also pretty strong. There is a great deal of discussion in
Southern California about building a $1.3 billion powerline to
transfer electricity. Relying solely on concentrated generation
has significant costs and drawbacks.


That being said, there is also a strong argument for
concentrated solar power generation and that is also being
done. In the end, a system of including both concentrated and
distributed generation will evolve.

I don't know why it seems to irritate you that homeowners would
enjoy the benifits of residential solar. However, the "horse is out
of the barn" as they say. Thousands of homeowners are going
to choose solar because it makes sense for them. Thousands of
new jobs are going to be created to manufacture and intall
residential solar systems. This is done deal. Get over it.

PS: When you are commenting on taxes you should probably
consider the billions of dollars in tax breaks for the oil and coal
industry.

[m.o.t.u.]

What about this scenerio......

you live in an area that doesn't have a connection to the grid, and even if you did the cost per pole would be $4,000 to $5,000 (Aus) plus the possibility of a transformer being required.

The people I know in these areas have been using solar water & power since the 1980's and although some of the systems could use a little T.L.C. they still do the job.

There are many small communities just like this dotted around Australia, people actually living their lives, with no reliance on a grid and all.

Right here, right now, solar panels are providing power for these people.

In-light of this, how is your concept a better alternative to what is already working (and has been for 2 decades)?

Kind Regards

[KSman01]

They all do that.

Even if there is no feed to the grid over a month, the system still displaces a certain amount of KHWs on the grid. When the sun is shining and its hot, when the owners air conditioner is not cycled on there is probably a flow to the grid that is useful during times of high demand. I know of a home in CA that hosts a web site with many computers adding to a normal domestic loads and the system is a string net contributor to the grid every month. If a system does not have a net contribution to the grid, it still reduces day-time peak loads. Getting a monthly net contribution to the grid is only a matter of sizing and economics. Systems that are smaller than that are still benefiting the grid.

[Joe Real]

Open it up to DIY.

No matter how easy is the installation of the solar panels, the contractors will simply charge the same installation price per kilowatt and get all the savings of installation all to themselves.

If the installation is easy enough, then simply open it up for Do-It-Yourself homeowners then have the city inspect and approve such installations.

As it is, only trained and licensed contractors can install solar panels, and thus they are the only ones who benefit from any advancement in the ease of installations. These savings have never been passed on to consumers. In fact that the solar panels became easier to install, that the solar panel companies will charge more because of the perceived savings in the installation, but heck, no way, it will end up costing more because the savings are not passed on, and the new higher prices will make it cost more.

Open it up to Do-It-Yourself homeowners, a large majority of us are smart and highly skilled, we are not dumb people, we can build more complex projects than solar installation. This in hope will pressure the contractors to really lower their prices when they have real competition from DIY. The improvement of the ease of installation of the solar panels as these various manufacturers have stated, will never result in price reduction unless real competition is brought in.

I do not support nor go against the use of solar panels on residential roofs.That is another big issue for debate.

[antblaster]

Homeowner installation

Actually ( I can only speak for California ), the CSI solar rebate
allows for self installed systems. There is no problem for a capable
person to install their own system. You do have to go through the
process of getting permits and making sure everything is done to
code, but that is simple enough and makes sense. I heard that 5%
of installations in California are DYI, though I can't confirm that in
any way.

[xanthur]

DIY solar installations are possible in California. It is a matter of getting past the onerous permitting process and following the power company's guidelines. I installed my own 3000-watt system in a residential neighborhood in Ramona, CA saving ALL of the installation cost by doing it myself.

[stlwest]

But Solar Transfer is just an unexplained dream not a real product

Yes if I could put my solar panel in the desert in Arizona and actually get the energy at my house or get a nice check sent to me for power sold by my "Solar Transfer" partner. But after looking at the www.solartransfer.com site it is apparent to me that this is just an idea not a real company and not a fully vetted idea at that. I don't imagine too many people are gonna ship their solar panels down to an unknown company.

Without the governmental incentives solar just doesn't usually make "economic" sense. The reason Google and Walmart determine that after 30% back from the Federal government and nice subsidies from California that will diminish over the life of the program that acting sooner made more sense. It actually did make economic sense with a payback period of approx. 7 years if I recall and would have a beneficial PR impact. For businesses the 30% is uncapped, poor individuals maximum credit is $2000.

Hopefully as solar scales up it's price will continue to drop to the point where it is competetive with purchased power. Thin film should come down significantly and if you could replace shingles with a thin film installation the labor cost impact on solar would be significantly diminished.

Keeping my fingers crossed.......

[Manhattan2]

Will the feds allow me to put my panels in New Mexico

What that means is: If I live in Maine or New York can I still get Federal and State incentives and tax breaks if I put my $10,000 in panels, mirrors, or fresnel lenses in another state? If so keep the incentives going. We will be deploying our program within a few months. If not all subsidies to deploy inefficient photovoltaic systems that cost more money and possibly CO2 than they generate should end.

[seabiscuits]

How many installations have Sun Run

installed, to date, of these "rented" solar panels.?
seabiscuit
www.scottpelham.com

[dwightmlee]

Monday, May 26, 2008

I just bought a house in Cape Coral, Florida and will be moving within the next 60 days. What is the best use of a house roof for solar energy today and what federal, state, county, and local grants are still there for ?ecogeeks? like me to reduce the cost of ?going solar? by use of solar units on the roof of their home?

I want to start as soon as I get to Cape Coral, Florida next month.

Thanks and regards,
Dwight
Dwight M. Lee
(Until July 1st)
3 Village Hill Lane #1
Natick, Ma. 01760-5724
(After July 1st)
3321 S E 10th Avenue
Cape Coral, FL 33904-4714
Cell = 508 801 5170
Home = 508 309 4874
Fax = 508 635 0049
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