Comcast vs. BitTorrent to be focus of FCC hearing

The high-profile squabble over Comcast's slowdown of BitTorrent file-sharing traffic--and broader questions of network handling by Internet service providers--is set for public scrutiny Monday at a federal hearing.

This time, the Federal Communications Commission will depart its headquarters just off the National Mall in Washington and head north to a courtroom on Harvard Law School's campus in Cambridge, Mass. (The FCC wouldn't comment on why the site was selected, but Boston is the home turf of Democratic Rep. Ed Markey, who chairs a House Internet subcommittee.)

The hearing, which will be open to the public on a first-come, first-served basis and be otherwise accessible via an "audio-only" Webcast on the FCC site. It's an outgrowth of the agency's recently launched inquiry into what constitutes "reasonable" network management practices by Internet service providers.

The FCC in 2005 said broadband companies should not block or interfere with lawful Internet use, unless they're doing so for "reasonable" network management purposes, but revelations that Comcast was stalling uploads to BitTorrent protocol clients raised new questions about what "reasonable" means.

The public forum will give the commissioners a chance to quiz company executives and networking experts, and perhaps reveal what they may do next. The regulators have already accepted thousands of written comments from private citizens, interest groups, and corporations concerned about the topic. They may choose, based on the comments, to start a process that would more clearly establish what Internet service providers may and may not do, but they're not obligated to do so.

The event--coupled with Rep. Markey's introduction of an arguably less-regulatory Net neutrality bill last week--also signals a clear revival of a temporarily dormant debate over whether Net neutrality laws are needed.

"What we're going to see on Monday is a trial of the Internet," said Columbia Law School Professor Tim Wu who has written extensively in favor of Net neutrality regulations and is slated to speak on a panel Monday. "Comcast is in the docket, accused of crimes against the public interest, and we'll see how well they are able to defend themselves."

Net neutrality, of course, is the idea that network operators like AT&T and Comcast should be prohibited from prioritizing Web content and applications, or charging content owners extra fees for premium delivery. Two years ago, Congress considered handing the FCC extensive power to regulate Internet practices, but it rejected the proposals.

Proponents say such policies are necessary to promote democracy itself--and to ensure that little guys won't be squeezed out of the Internet ecosystem in favor of larger, deeper-pocketed entities. But opponents, including the network operators, say they deserve flexibility to manage their networks as they see fit to serve their customers' interests--for instance, blocking spam and ensuring that use of high-bandwidth applications by some users at peak times doesn't clog the pipes for everyone else.

[zeroplane]

Peak Congestion? 24/7?

Unfortunately I am a Comcast customer and I am very invested in the outcome of this battle. I don't believe that the FCC will actually do anything. But the added press on the issue is encouraging.<br /><br />Even though Comcast states that they "shape" aka block traffic on peak congestion times it would appear to me, based on my meager testing over the last month that "peak" must mean 24/7.<br /><br />Three months ago I was getting throughput as high as 6000 Kb/s downloading from services I pay for such as usenet and a few content vendors that provide their content via HTTP. Now, I am lucky to get about 200 Kb/s and my usenet downloads are at 1000 Kb/s. Sometimes my download rate drops to 25 to 10 Kb/s for hours on end. I checked with the services I pay for and they didn't change anything on their end. One can only conclude that it was a change in the ISP not the vendor.<br /><br />I might also bring up that fact that the services I am mentioning are not like bittorrent they don't upload at all rather it is download only.<br /><br />How does that fit into their convenient little lie.

[tanis143]

Technical Issue

Sounds more like you're having some technical issue. What Comcast has done was aimed strictly at BT. I would try a simple speedtest and see what you get, if its way below the speed your package is at, call them out to fix it. <br /><br />Also, might want to check if your modem is Docsis 2.0 or 3.0 compliant. If not, that could be an issue as well.

[saadhusain]

Next the phone companies will listen in on our voice conversation

And if my wife starts idle talk, they will cut in and impersonating the other side say the call is over. Please explain how this is different.

[nakoa]

regulation hinders growth

Rather than complaining about users tying up the bandwidth, perhaps they should be looking into research and development of new ways to expand the way information is processed. Technology will only continue to move forward when pushed. Regulation of that technology is simply a way for big business to keep things in their comfort zone while striving to get the most money as possible out of the system. It would be a mistake to regulate the internet or the bandwidth that connects to it. I think it is time to look at other ways of doing business instead.

[Leria]

The problem with that reasoning

Is that they will not look for other ways of doing business unless they have to by having regulators tell them that they have to.<br /><br />Regulation of business is a double-edged sword, but in the whole history of the United States it has never, repeat NEVER, hindered growth of the country.<br />It has on occasion hindered competition, but even then those times are few and far between.

[tanis143]

Another flaw in your logic

Ok, who is going to pay for all that R&#38;D? Or, who is going to pay for the upgrade in fiber, equipment, and such to move to higher speeds? Why should Comcast foot the bill when its applications like BT that flood the network and cause bandwidth tie ups?<br /><br />Remember, bandwidth is never free, its paid for by someone. These companies that use BT do nothing but leech off other people's bandwidth. They are the ones that should pay for their own bandwidth.

[paulej]

Comcast is simply wrong

What Comcast is doing it not delivering the service that subscribers have purchased, plain and simple.<br /><br />I use BitTorent for one purpose: to download the most recent version of Fedora when it gets released. No matter whether I download it via HTTP, FTP, or BitTorrent, the amount of inbound bandwidth I will consume is roughly the same.<br /><br />The difference with BitTorrent is that the amount of bandwidth consumed uploading increases. But, this balances out in the end, because my computer would only transmit packets if somebody else wanted them, right? So, if my system is not transmitting the data, then the users are consuming bandwidth via HTTP or FTP. So, where is the increased traffic?<br /><br />I think the real problem is that there is a huge amount of illegal content that gets shared in this manner. My guess is that if things like BitTorrent did not exist, then the overall bandwidth would decrease since people would not be otherwise downloading illegal content.<br /><br />Whatever the case, every subscriber pays for service and it is Comcast's responsibility to deliver the service for which customers provided payment. What they do with that bandwidth is their business, no? If Comcast feels differently, then they should sell their cable lines to another company who would be more "net friendly."<br /><br />Comcast always has the option to increase network capacity, increase subscriber fees, etc. They can always offer multiple tiers of service for those who use less bandwidth and those who use more.<br /><br />The real solution, though, is to increase bandwidth. With more and more services on the Internet, lots of new streaming video services, increased utilization of video conferencing, etc., then there is absolutely no question that all broadband providers need to put a certain amount of revenue into constantly improving network capacity. I get the impression that Comcast does not want to make that investment.

[Mike9302]

Comcast isn't managing their network, they're....

Covering up a massive under engineering problem. A properly <br />engineered network requires management to deal with abnormal <br />conditions... fire, flood, hurricane, earthquake, terrorist attack, <br />etc. Covering up for being too cheap and sneaky, etc. to provide <br />the equipment needed to meet customer demand is not network <br />management... it is CRIMINAL behavior. If the phone companies <br />under engineered the way comcast does, you could die in a fire <br />waiting for dial tone or a line or both to reach 911.

[smokified]

Really...?

And squirrels are actually russian spies. I also heard that the world is going to end in 2012

[wp enterprises]

comcast

Comcast is going to be a phone company just like rogers is now in canada. If they don't upgrade their networks soon, your phone will be screwed too

[jowewo]

Protecting customer interests? Really?

AT&#38;T wants to police the internet. Controlling downloads is a way - they say - not to penalize law-abiding "surfers." Comcast is limiting the bandwidth of connections to BitTorrent (and other p2p networks?) for the same reason(s).<br /><br />But in fact, the consumer is - in both cases - the first one to suffer. Do we really need our service providers to police us? To patronize us? Isn't most of the Internet Traffic pornography? Any chance these control freaks do something about it? Of course not.<br /><br />Our lives get more and more "internetized" every day. We pay online, we buy online, we rent online, we travel online, we fill taxes online... Our personal information is already out there, and we do not need our ISPs to have more power over. Letting them control where we go and what we do is a first step that should not be - legally - allowed.<br /><br />But then again, who REALLY cares about - us - consumers?

[nuckelhedd]

Do you suppose?

This "management of bandwidth" issue is directly related to Comcast providing telephony and streaming HD and standard video themselves? Hmmm... I might run out of bandwidth too if i didn't plan for the need for throughput. Not to mention if this passes and the FCC (Federal Criminal Conspiritists) does nothing or even worse allow this, it will only lead to limiting other services and site traffic. All in the name of "reasonable network management" of course. <br />This debacle does prove one thing IMHO however. Our representatives need to clearly understand that net neutrality legislation IS MOST ASSUREDLY NEEDED. I suggest we ALL write to these folks who are SUPPOSED to be working in our favor and tell them we will fire them if they don't stop pandering to BIG BUSINESS.<br /><br />Period

[menotbug]

Comcast is right.

In our neighborhood, we don't have Comcast. But we do have two or three kids who monopolize the cable system by downloading illegal movies and World of Warcraft. The load is bad enough to slow everyone else in the neighborhood down. Vonage barely works. Our cable provider says that it would take thousands of dollars to beef up the system to add more bandwidth, and then those kids could soak up the added capacity right away. They say they could take measures to stop the bandwidth hogs but they are spooked by this FCC action and are waiting on the outcome of the Comcast hearing. Please, FCC, do the sensible thing and let our cable company stop the hogs and give us reasonable service.

[SpaceDude2001]

Dude, You got a crap ISP...

If they downloading illegal movies, the easy solution is a kick them off the service for good and call the FBI. However, if they are downloading legal movies from Vongo, Movelink, Netflix or etc tough luck. The same goes for any bandwidth used by game play, tough luck. Since when is it ok for the water company to run a garden hose to everyone's house and call that water service. Then to kick or slow someone down when they try to take a shower. Tell your ISP goodbye, because they are over selling their garden hose connection to the Internet. Unlimited means umlimited for legal content / traffic and not just until you go over the "magical amount."

[Imalittleteapot]

Isn't the ISP the problem.

I don't understand. Why complain about the hogs? Why not complain to your ISP? They promised to provide you with a service. If you are not happy with your service, or your service does match what was promised then you should tell your ISP you want out of the contract unless they can provide the promised service.<br /><br />Those kids that are hogging with World of Warcraft bought the service because they were promised they could play World of Warcraft as much as they wanted.<br /><br />I'm sorry if your ISP made promises to both you and another customer that conflict in a way that the ISP cannot keep their promises to both parties. However, that is an issue you need to take up with your ISP. If they cannot provide the promised capacity to you then you are a victim of fraud by the ISP.<br /><br />You should not be mad at other customers who are simply paying for the service that the ISP promised them.<br /><br />Perhaps because you have paid money and bought into the ISP service you feel you have made a wise decision, and you don?t want to admit that your ISP is screwing you of the advertised service. Perhaps you are afraid that makes you look foolish. However, you do not look foolish because you are paying for something you are not getting. It happens to the best of us, and it is the basic nature of any fraud that anyone can fall prey to.<br /><br />The bottom line is if your network connection is not up to par with what was promised you are the victim of a fraud. The quicker you realize it the quicker you can remedy your situation.

[vhac]

Uninformed customers make the best speaker phone

let's see how much you know<br />How many people are on your node?<br />How do you know what the kids download?<br />How much did the kids download?<br />What is the capacity of your node?<br />How do you know if the kids are on your same node?<br />How do you know if it's not your cable provider problems?<br />How do you know if it's not the DNS problems?<br />i really doubt that anyone from your cable internet provider would tell you that they are spooked by FCC, especially level 1 &#38; 2 support.<br />This is the same crap as Comcast tells you that you need to have cable tv before they can hook up cable internet for you. As a matter of fact, they used to hook up cable internet without cable tv service for the longest time. On the same BS level of how the upstream is capped because of capacity. Years ago, Comcast upstream is at about 1.5mbs.<br />If you want to pay $60 bucks for browsing and email like Comcast wants then feel free to do that. However, please refrain from spreading false informations that your low level tech supports told you.

[TBolt]

Cable providers have to upgrade anyway...

...otherwise, the future of Internet media (HBO, movies, TV shows, etc, etc, etc) -- all of which is mentioned weekly in the Press -- will never get off the ground. Once the everyday-Joe becomes accustomed to watching their favorite TV programs and movies via the Internet, you and your cable provider will have MUCH bigger problems than what you're experiencing today. Unfortunately, you blame everything on a few neighborhood kids, too. No offense, but 98% of people out there don't know what defragging a hard drive is much less basic networking.<br /><br />This fight against Bit torrent technology has nothing to do with bandwidth. It's a conservative scheme using illegal tactics to support big Money.

[dcase99]

no, no they are not

If they are so right then why did they alter the contract AFTER they were caught?

[froggymorning]

I also subscribe to comcast's 'unlimited' high speed internet, just as you and your neighborhood kids. For my area, its the only ISP, so Im stuck. Here's the important concept----When comcast finds people using it 'unlimited' as advertised and paid for however, they have been shown to throttle such high usage, and it is THIS throttling BY comcast is what slows you all down on your local loop. Mere high usage (--exactly what you are paying for--) does not slow everyone down... it is the throttling and attempt to limit bandwidth by Comcast when they see high usage, that slows all users down. The throttling, after we pay for UNLIMITED is exactly what is in question here, and Comcast has gotten a slap on the wrist for not giving us what we have paid for. You paid for unlimited and fast, and COMCAST..not your local kids..slows it down. Comcast has lied to you in trying to deflect blame to 'bandwidth hogs' ------when each and every one of us is owed the bandwidth speeds that WE HAVE PAID FOR. The FCC agrees and thus, this class action suit.<br /> <br />I pay for UNLIMITED internet with comcast, and high speed. I am disabled and entering my senior years and I play large role-playing games--it is my primary recreation and social interaction, and far better than the hours of tv I used to have to spend when there was no alternative. The software, expansions and patches for these games are delivered peer to peer. During the time period when Comcast was shown to be throttling peer to peer, I was unable to play due to their throttling. And I was not the only one, the web is full of posts by thousands of game-players affected by Comcast intentionally slowing the service that they paid for.<br /><br />Another poster says it best. Comcast advertises high water pressure, then runs a single garden hose to the neighborhood, then slows down your water supply when you want to take a long hot shower. I'm filing for MY $16, but it in no way is adequate compensation for failing to deliver what they promise.

[deloprator20000]

Strategy

Though I am avid supporter of internet neutrality, I believe that the best strategy to reinstate internet neutrality is to first elect a democrat as president. <br /><br />Once a democrat is president we can campaign for internet neutrality with greater force and greater success. <br /><br />So we should bide our time and strike when the chances of success appear to be greatest.

[writeby]

Better Question: What does "free" mean?

This is the "Who-owns-the-airwaves?" debate transferred to cyber space. The answer is: No one--but broadcasters DO own the equipment and, by extension, their broadcast signals. Piggybacking on broadcaster signals is like squatting on private property. It's wrong--a clear violation of any individual's property rights, said rights beginning with one's own life, i.e., body &#38; mind.<br /><br />Now we have the same type of "squatting proposal" that gave rise to the Fairness Doctrine (among other forms of censorship) in broadcasting, except it's called "Net Neutrality"--that is, when it comes to property rights in cyber space, there are none. It should be called, for accuracy sake, "Rights Neutral."<br /><br />Cyber space is open to all who wish to investment in the necessary infra-structure costs to become an ISP. That infrastructure and the "roadway" it lays on the Net is *private property." Those who wish to loot that wealth in the name of "fairness" haven't clue one about the meaning nor the application of justice.<br /><br />Net Neutrality is a license to steal--to steal the billions of infrastructure created by Comcast, Cox, Time-Warner, etc.--and then to censor them by limiting their choices of what they may or may not send out (or limit) over/on their "broadcast signal."<br /><br />Democracy is a very old and very failed form of political philosophy. Our Founding Fathers did *not* create a democracy when they wrote the Constitution. They knew history and knew well its failure. They create a Constitutionally limited (by property rights, including individual rights), democratic republic--with "democratic" strictly contextualized to mean the electorate (and their representatives) are to be checked &#38; balanced AND trumped by the rights of the individual, whether that individual is a man or a corporation (of men).<br /><br />If you want to see real Internet regulation, taxation and eventual censorship, just allow the FCC this toehold. Give a rat a cookie--and he'll next want a glass o milk.<br /><br />As for academe's who support this trash, someone opined a few years ago, after the Soviet Union crashed &#38; burned, that the only sanctuary left for Marxism was America's universityies. <br /><br />As for the rich who declare their support of the State--whether it's increasing taxes, maintaining capital gains or inheritance taxes, establishing forced volunteerism or net neutrality--well, Hitler had his Krupps and Voglers.<br /><br />And we have our Soros's, Buffets, Gates's &#38; Newmarks's.

[rnieves1977]

then why do I pay a monthly service?

I pay it to use that equipment... If it cost more to use that equipment unlimitedly then charge my ass for it. Don't tell me your going to provide a service at a particular cost and then jerk something out of it. If these corporations were up front then they and we wouldn't have this problem.

[Dalkorian]

spoken

Writeby earned his/her kickback with the comment:<br /><br />"Net Neutrality is a license to steal--to steal the billions of <br />infrastructure created by Comcast, Cox, Time-Warner, etc.--and <br />then to censor them by limiting their choices of what they may <br />or may not send out (or limit) over/on their "broadcast signal.""<br /><br />Spoken like a true Comcast shill. How much did they pay you for <br />that garbage anyway?<br /><br />Comcast is violating the principles of the internet by <br />purposefully TERMINATING BitTorrent traffic. I know they're <br />claiming they're just "shaping traffic" and holding it for a bit, but <br />in fact they're forging packets to terminate BitTorrent traffic. <br />Some people buy into the RIAA/MPAA bull plop, thinking it's <br />only affecting illegal downloads and pirates, but how do you <br />think open source OS's like Ubuntu perform their updates? <br />BitTorrent is just a technology, not inherently "good" or "evil" in <br />any way. Forging packets to terminate all BitTorrent traffic is just <br />wrong, period. This is why net neutrality is needed.

[businesscontacts]

If you are paying for certain speed, you should get it

If customers pay for certain speed, comcast should provide that speed, not give the false impression that they provide almost unlimited bandwidth when that's not the case.<br /><br />A new pricing structure is what is needed.<br /><br />Do you go to an "all you can eat" buffet, only to be allowed one serving?

[rnieves1977]

I concur

I'd ***** slap the waiter that told me I was eating to much then sue the crap out of the establishment for hurting my feeling insinuating that I was FAT... lol<br /><br />Hope the FCC is as offended as a fat person at a buffet...

[mjd420nova]

Comcast throttling users

If Comcast wants to be the big brother of the internet maybe if they concentrated on blocking spam and killing viruses before they even get to the users would be a better approach. My children are constantly downloading games and music which slows things down considerably but to just pick on provider of services and either slow down their cownloads or terminate the links is discriminatory.

[MadLyb]

Mixed feelings

I hate the fact that power downloaders negatively impact my download speeds, but I also have concerns with Comcast doing this on the sly.<br /><br />No easy solution.

[Numbuh4]

High Speed Internet?

It's strange, I can't even navigate IsoHunt anymore PLUS when I post a bulletin on MySpace including any word relevant to Comcast it will not post. Even tried encryption ie Co mca st ect . .

[Numbuh4]

Followup

I had called Comcast to address a limited / no connectivity issue; theire response - just use one computer at a time (which is usual scenario anyway); charged $39.99 for advice. Still cannot access full internet as $60 a month dosen't cut it I guess . . gotta change here

[kogashuko]

If you live in Va there is a criminal code for what they were doing, § 18.2-164.

[froggymorning]

I also subscribe to comcast's 'unlimited' high speed internet, just as you and your neighborhood kids. For my area, its the only ISP, so Im stuck. Here's the important concept----When comcast finds people using it 'unlimited' as advertised and paid for however, they have been shown to throttle such high usage, and it is THIS throttling BY comcast is what slows you all down on your local loop. Mere high usage (--exactly what you are paying for--) does not slow everyone down... it is the throttling and attempt to limit bandwidth by Comcast when they see high usage, that slows all users down. The throttling, after we pay for UNLIMITED is exactly what is in question here, and Comcast has gotten a slap on the wrist for not giving us what we have paid for. You paid for unlimited and fast, and COMCAST..not your local kids..slows it down. Comcast has lied to you in trying to deflect blame to 'bandwidth hogs' ------when each and every one of us is owed the bandwidth speeds that WE HAVE PAID FOR. The FCC agrees and thus, this class action suit.<br /> <br />I pay for UNLIMITED internet with comcast, and high speed. I am disabled and entering my senior years and I play large role-playing games--it is my primary recreation and social interaction, and far better than the hours of tv I used to have to spend when there was no alternative. The software, expansions and patches for these games are delivered peer to peer. During the time period when Comcast was shown to be throttling peer to peer, I was unable to play due to their throttling. And I was not the only one, the web is full of posts by thousands of game-players affected by Comcast intentionally slowing the service that they paid for.<br /><br />Another poster says it best. Comcast advertises high water pressure, then runs a single garden hose to the neighborhood, then slows down your water supply when you want to take a long hot shower. I'm filing for MY $16, but it in no way is adequate compensation for failing to deliver what they promise.