July 14, 2005 5:30 AM PDT
Clinton wants inquiry into 'Grand Theft' sex
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The New York Times
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Secondly- this patch was an unsolicited and unsupported patch to the game. If Rockstar Games created this code and they decided not to include it it's within their rights. It was not released in the final, and there's no way to stumble on to it unless you're really in need of excitement. It 's about as sensible to bring charges against them as it would be to sue Intel for overclocking your CPU and having it catch fire.
Thirdly- The content of sex, compared to the rest of the game is miniscule. It is far more violent than it intends to be sexual. This recalls the South Park episode where (spoiler!) everyone gets up in arms when "Butters" gets a sharp object in his eye, but everyone acutally is fretted by a "wardrobe malfunction". Hilary Clinton needs to stop being a weak minded centrist pandering to religious freaks- if they bought their kid this game, it's their fault.
Finally- There's no *****!!
The patch is only 1.24 megabytes. That would fit on an old floppy disk. Do you really think that an entire new mod would be that small?
Secondly- this patch was an unsolicited and unsupported patch to the game. If Rockstar Games created this code and they decided not to include it it's within their rights. It was not released in the final, and there's no way to stumble on to it unless you're really in need of excitement. It 's about as sensible to bring charges against them as it would be to sue Intel for overclocking your CPU and having it catch fire.
Thirdly- The content of sex, compared to the rest of the game is miniscule. It is far more violent than it intends to be sexual. This recalls the South Park episode where (spoiler!) everyone gets up in arms when "Butters" gets a sharp object in his eye, but everyone acutally is fretted by a "wardrobe malfunction". Hilary Clinton needs to stop being a weak minded centrist pandering to religious freaks- if they bought their kid this game, it's their fault.
Finally- There's no *****!!
The patch is only 1.24 megabytes. That would fit on an old floppy disk. Do you really think that an entire new mod would be that small?
She is oportunistic, and this is just another way for her to look like "tough" and protecting families and little children from sex/violence.
Whatever. I am tired of hearing from this dumb congres-people (Liberman comes to mind) complaining about sex and violence in videogames. These guys never played a game, and probably imagine the typical gamer as a 14 years old boy.
Not, so, average gamer is 28-29, and adult enough to know what to play or what not.
Just turn on your TV and see what kind of violence/sex is there. Much worse (especially on cable).
My 2 cents: Don't vote for these people, who want to curtail your freedom on what can you play.
(No, I am not republican)
She is oportunistic, and this is just another way for her to look like "tough" and protecting families and little children from sex/violence.
Whatever. I am tired of hearing from this dumb congres-people (Liberman comes to mind) complaining about sex and violence in videogames. These guys never played a game, and probably imagine the typical gamer as a 14 years old boy.
Not, so, average gamer is 28-29, and adult enough to know what to play or what not.
Just turn on your TV and see what kind of violence/sex is there. Much worse (especially on cable).
My 2 cents: Don't vote for these people, who want to curtail your freedom on what can you play.
(No, I am not republican)
The only reason to that I can assume that Rockstar left the scene in the game was because they were going to include it, but decided not to at the last minute. Removing the computer code would be to difficult for their current restrictions. Again, this is just an assumption and not a proven fact.
There is no argument because this scene is not in the playable game. A person hacked the game's code and modified it so it would. Remember: people play games, not source code.
The only reason to that I can assume that Rockstar left the scene in the game was because they were going to include it, but decided not to at the last minute. Removing the computer code would be to difficult for their current restrictions. Again, this is just an assumption and not a proven fact.
There is no argument because this scene is not in the playable game. A person hacked the game's code and modified it so it would. Remember: people play games, not source code.
censorship candidate. What ever happened to freedom of
expression? Why talk about kids always/adults buy these
games, and play them also.
GET OUT OF MY LIFE AND QUIT TELLING ME WHAT IS
WRONG OR RIGHT.
Start at your own marriage, loser Hillary Rotten.
censorship candidate. What ever happened to freedom of
expression? Why talk about kids always/adults buy these
games, and play them also.
GET OUT OF MY LIFE AND QUIT TELLING ME WHAT IS
WRONG OR RIGHT.
Start at your own marriage, loser Hillary Rotten.
has extreme violence, and in some cases the objective of the
mission is to kill cops. You can buy porn in most states starting
at age 18. So, what is the big deal if over 18 year olds are
watching porn in a video game, let alone had to hack it in by
adding some software to the mix to do it. Some people just
need to stop saying, "What about the children?", because
children should not be playing this game in the first place. Every
one that says to look into this matter, needs to go fsck()
themself.
has extreme violence, and in some cases the objective of the
mission is to kill cops. You can buy porn in most states starting
at age 18. So, what is the big deal if over 18 year olds are
watching porn in a video game, let alone had to hack it in by
adding some software to the mix to do it. Some people just
need to stop saying, "What about the children?", because
children should not be playing this game in the first place. Every
one that says to look into this matter, needs to go fsck()
themself.
The game is called "Grand Theft Auto" not "Fuzzy Bunny and Friends". If a game is named after a crime, then it doesnt take an genius to realize its probably not for children.
Your child asks to go to a friends house to play grand theft auto.. alarm bells should sound in your head.
Your child wants you to buy it, alarm bells should sound as soon as you hear the title.
Your child buys it without your permission, you see him playing a game, ask him what it is, he says Grand Theft Auto. Do you walk away and go "Ah must be an educational game". No.
Parents dont want to take responsibility for monitoring their children so demand that the government do it for them.
Unless these parents are extremely stupid, they dont need the government to watch their children for them and chip away at the first amendment so you can continue to ignore your child and still ensure that your child cant possibly be exposed to something that could possibly offend anyone.
If your that loathe to raise your children, then do them a favor and have childrens services come pick them up immediately.
The problem lies in an untrustworthy system. If it is decided that games with explicit sexual content are adult only, and yet one such game is being sold as rated M, there is a big problem.
The game is called "Grand Theft Auto" not "Fuzzy Bunny and Friends". If a game is named after a crime, then it doesnt take an genius to realize its probably not for children.
Your child asks to go to a friends house to play grand theft auto.. alarm bells should sound in your head.
Your child wants you to buy it, alarm bells should sound as soon as you hear the title.
Your child buys it without your permission, you see him playing a game, ask him what it is, he says Grand Theft Auto. Do you walk away and go "Ah must be an educational game". No.
Parents dont want to take responsibility for monitoring their children so demand that the government do it for them.
Unless these parents are extremely stupid, they dont need the government to watch their children for them and chip away at the first amendment so you can continue to ignore your child and still ensure that your child cant possibly be exposed to something that could possibly offend anyone.
If your that loathe to raise your children, then do them a favor and have childrens services come pick them up immediately.
The problem lies in an untrustworthy system. If it is decided that games with explicit sexual content are adult only, and yet one such game is being sold as rated M, there is a big problem.
Maybe if you move the atmosphere to the White House and after the supposed scandalous sex, we could have a little ***** stain appear on the sex partner's clothing, then the senator would not be so "offended."
If the "honorable senator from New York" wants to do something worthwhile, let her initiate a bill that would only allow presidents who serve the full 8 years collect 50% of their salary. It is good enough that the military can only retain half their military pay after serving 20 years.....how does a lousy president who only does 8 years get to retain 100% of their pay? Does that sound fair....
The president has a whole company of people willing to take a bullet if someone shoots at him...the military has to take the bullet all by themselves and then pay for the medical benefits they will need after taking the bullet....
Come on...do something worthwhile....censorship in spite of all your husband has done is quite hypocritical.
Maybe if you move the atmosphere to the White House and after the supposed scandalous sex, we could have a little ***** stain appear on the sex partner's clothing, then the senator would not be so "offended."
If the "honorable senator from New York" wants to do something worthwhile, let her initiate a bill that would only allow presidents who serve the full 8 years collect 50% of their salary. It is good enough that the military can only retain half their military pay after serving 20 years.....how does a lousy president who only does 8 years get to retain 100% of their pay? Does that sound fair....
The president has a whole company of people willing to take a bullet if someone shoots at him...the military has to take the bullet all by themselves and then pay for the medical benefits they will need after taking the bullet....
Come on...do something worthwhile....censorship in spite of all your husband has done is quite hypocritical.
"Hackers" - the unlocking program was created by one man, not a super secret group of malicious technophiles. This term is supposed to evoke fear; it is supposed to give us the fear of "THEM".
Second, this program does not _add_ the sexual content to the game. That content is already on the disc, but is simply inaccessible. Rockstar created the material, and then put a padlock over the door. This program simply removes the padlock.
"Hackers" - the unlocking program was created by one man, not a super secret group of malicious technophiles. This term is supposed to evoke fear; it is supposed to give us the fear of "THEM".
Second, this program does not _add_ the sexual content to the game. That content is already on the disc, but is simply inaccessible. Rockstar created the material, and then put a padlock over the door. This program simply removes the padlock.
Politicians need to stay out of our lives. The GTA game is rated. It says on the package that it contains sex and violence. What the politicians exhibit when they wade in on this issue is a COMPLETE lack of understanding about gaming, gamers and modding.
Let me put is simply so even politicians can understand:
Nearly every game is modifiable. Some game companies make it easier to do than others, but nearly all games can be patched or hacked.
The vast majority of mods are cool and not about sex or violence. Most of them are about adding new locations to the game (called maps), new weapons (called props) or hacks to make the game play easier or harder, such as increasing or decreasing the jump height of a player.
Because tools like Hammer, Quake, and Unreal used to create new maps are free and easy to use, making maps is the most common game mod. Making new character models requires higher end software like XSI, or Maya, Wavefront, and these programs cost THOUSANDS of dollars. The limited feature free-versions of these programs have restrictions on what they can do, and the learning curve on these programs is really steep. In short, it takes time and hard work to make a decent mod, and it isnt for the faint of heart. Even after a model is created in a 3d app like XSI, it takes some real work to get it ported to the game so the game engine will recognize it. And even after THAT is done, getting the mod in a format that can be shared is a task and a half. And all this is with the easiest kind of model to create, a static model. A player or game model that reacts to the game environment (or has AI) requires rigging* and code to make the model run, jump, talk or die. In addition, a version of the model FOR EACH OF THOSE ACTIONS, has to be made or more often, rigged, to perform the actions. In other words, you need to provide to the game engine a version of the model just standing there, another one of the model running, and another of the model crouching, falling, dying, whatever. In short, it takes WORK to make this stuff.
Because it takes so much effort to make these models, game makers sometimes remove content or story lines from a game by moving the camera or viewpoint of the game. In other words, the camera can be placed anywhere in a game, pretty much. It can follow a player, can look out the window of a vehicle, look over the shoulder of a player or model. As such, it is often easier to move the camera than to remove a model. If the camera cant see the model, the unwanted content is effectively hidden or unreachable.
Because once a model is rigged and in the game, it can be coded to do other things, it really hard to prevent a coder from making the rig do silly things like dance or simulate sexual positions. What keeps this from happening more often is that most gamers dont want to see that kind of lame stuff. Gamers want real content that adds to the game, not some lame patch that moves a models hips in a certain way. Peer pressure and review IS a big part of the mod community, and being a good modder is a badge of honor. Most modders who are any good wouldnt bother with something lame like adding sex to a game title.
Most of us are better than that.
EVEN IF a game like GTA contained sex scenes in it from Rockstar itself, it was LABELED as being for mature people. I guess politicians cant read.
Final points. It hasnt escaped me that these politicians and even the anti-video game groups say things like A web savvy kid can find this patch and download it to reveal the content. That makes me laugh, because a web savvy kid probably already has seen MUCH WORSE on the net. We are talking about full on, explicit hard core sex. No age check, no warnings. Again, the politicians miss the boat here, big time. Instead of worrying about a game mod like GTA Hot Coffee, a patch that doesnt even show genitals (according to some posters here), the politicians should be up in arms about online porn. But they arent freaking out because they dont really care. They know that the porn industry hides behind free speech claims, and politicians DONT want to injure ISP by making
them responsible for the porn available on networks. After all, many politicians, I would argue, own stock in ISP companies, so it would cost them money to blame ISPs or hold them responsible.
Frankly, gamers understand that A GAME IS A GAME. It is not advocating anything. It is a fictitious world were certain things happen, like being able to jump really high or run really fast, shoot really well, die a thousand times only to be respawned seconds later in another part of the map. It is a lark, not a not a how-to-guide and we gamers know the difference between reality and what happens in a game. Maybe if more politicians played video games, they would know the difference, too
This all reminds me of the old 'call to arms' on P&P RPG games (D&D, Runequest, etc.) by the politicos and media outlets. This came to a head becuase a few very disturbed kids went off their nut and started believing in the fantasy world they read. There was even a congressional hearing on the subject (if I remember, it's been a long time) where they brought out the handbooks that discribed various FICTIONAL acts, that no sane person would do in real life, as examples of how evil these games were. EVIL?!
Now we have the same thing going on here only millions play these games (unlike the few thousand that play(ed) P&P RPGs) and everyone is freaking out. I don't think anyone in politics or the media can be objective about this. All they see is a great sound bite or a cause to get them higher in the food chain.
What they don't get is that people will push the envelope and video games are at the forefront of a revolution. It's all imagination folks! It's escapism and those that take a game (even one as obectionable as GTA:SA) and push it further will push it whichever way they want to. You can't stop it, you can't change human nature to inovate / modify / expand one's environment. The fact that it's "adult" content is irrelavent. IT'S ALL FAKE AND IMAGINATION! (and for the record no, I don't like GTA but I refuse to get bent up over a fictional world made up of pixels)
The final point, which will show you how all the above is related, is: if parents are worried about their kids being 'affected' by GTA:SA or games like it with M-rated content ... DON'T FREAKING BUY THE GAME!! Show some f'ing backbone and say "No!" to Johnny when he brings you over to the glass case in Target! And yes they might be able to play it at their friends house, so what? That's an excuse too. It's called parenting and it will work even when your not around IF you do it well and consistently. (yes, I'm a parent)
Again, great post, doubt those that matter will get it but good none the less.
Unfortunately, it appears that many politicians believe we need protection from a firestorm of magic bullets, and they, the politicians, are the only ones with the Kevlar vests to hand out. Doesnt it bother anyone else that people like H.R.C, and in a larger sense, government in general, wants to increasingly treat citizens like children? Do we really need people in power who in one breath preach self determination and responsibility, but in another say parents are so impotent at raising their children that they need to be told what is right and wrong?
Sheesh.
* DeFleur, Melvin L. Theories of Mass Communication New York: Longman Inc., 1989
Politicians need to stay out of our lives. The GTA game is rated. It says on the package that it contains sex and violence. What the politicians exhibit when they wade in on this issue is a COMPLETE lack of understanding about gaming, gamers and modding.
Let me put is simply so even politicians can understand:
Nearly every game is modifiable. Some game companies make it easier to do than others, but nearly all games can be patched or hacked.
The vast majority of mods are cool and not about sex or violence. Most of them are about adding new locations to the game (called maps), new weapons (called props) or hacks to make the game play easier or harder, such as increasing or decreasing the jump height of a player.
Because tools like Hammer, Quake, and Unreal used to create new maps are free and easy to use, making maps is the most common game mod. Making new character models requires higher end software like XSI, or Maya, Wavefront, and these programs cost THOUSANDS of dollars. The limited feature free-versions of these programs have restrictions on what they can do, and the learning curve on these programs is really steep. In short, it takes time and hard work to make a decent mod, and it isnt for the faint of heart. Even after a model is created in a 3d app like XSI, it takes some real work to get it ported to the game so the game engine will recognize it. And even after THAT is done, getting the mod in a format that can be shared is a task and a half. And all this is with the easiest kind of model to create, a static model. A player or game model that reacts to the game environment (or has AI) requires rigging* and code to make the model run, jump, talk or die. In addition, a version of the model FOR EACH OF THOSE ACTIONS, has to be made or more often, rigged, to perform the actions. In other words, you need to provide to the game engine a version of the model just standing there, another one of the model running, and another of the model crouching, falling, dying, whatever. In short, it takes WORK to make this stuff.
Because it takes so much effort to make these models, game makers sometimes remove content or story lines from a game by moving the camera or viewpoint of the game. In other words, the camera can be placed anywhere in a game, pretty much. It can follow a player, can look out the window of a vehicle, look over the shoulder of a player or model. As such, it is often easier to move the camera than to remove a model. If the camera cant see the model, the unwanted content is effectively hidden or unreachable.
Because once a model is rigged and in the game, it can be coded to do other things, it really hard to prevent a coder from making the rig do silly things like dance or simulate sexual positions. What keeps this from happening more often is that most gamers dont want to see that kind of lame stuff. Gamers want real content that adds to the game, not some lame patch that moves a models hips in a certain way. Peer pressure and review IS a big part of the mod community, and being a good modder is a badge of honor. Most modders who are any good wouldnt bother with something lame like adding sex to a game title.
Most of us are better than that.
EVEN IF a game like GTA contained sex scenes in it from Rockstar itself, it was LABELED as being for mature people. I guess politicians cant read.
Final points. It hasnt escaped me that these politicians and even the anti-video game groups say things like A web savvy kid can find this patch and download it to reveal the content. That makes me laugh, because a web savvy kid probably already has seen MUCH WORSE on the net. We are talking about full on, explicit hard core sex. No age check, no warnings. Again, the politicians miss the boat here, big time. Instead of worrying about a game mod like GTA Hot Coffee, a patch that doesnt even show genitals (according to some posters here), the politicians should be up in arms about online porn. But they arent freaking out because they dont really care. They know that the porn industry hides behind free speech claims, and politicians DONT want to injure ISP by making
them responsible for the porn available on networks. After all, many politicians, I would argue, own stock in ISP companies, so it would cost them money to blame ISPs or hold them responsible.
Frankly, gamers understand that A GAME IS A GAME. It is not advocating anything. It is a fictitious world were certain things happen, like being able to jump really high or run really fast, shoot really well, die a thousand times only to be respawned seconds later in another part of the map. It is a lark, not a not a how-to-guide and we gamers know the difference between reality and what happens in a game. Maybe if more politicians played video games, they would know the difference, too
This all reminds me of the old 'call to arms' on P&P RPG games (D&D, Runequest, etc.) by the politicos and media outlets. This came to a head becuase a few very disturbed kids went off their nut and started believing in the fantasy world they read. There was even a congressional hearing on the subject (if I remember, it's been a long time) where they brought out the handbooks that discribed various FICTIONAL acts, that no sane person would do in real life, as examples of how evil these games were. EVIL?!
Now we have the same thing going on here only millions play these games (unlike the few thousand that play(ed) P&P RPGs) and everyone is freaking out. I don't think anyone in politics or the media can be objective about this. All they see is a great sound bite or a cause to get them higher in the food chain.
What they don't get is that people will push the envelope and video games are at the forefront of a revolution. It's all imagination folks! It's escapism and those that take a game (even one as obectionable as GTA:SA) and push it further will push it whichever way they want to. You can't stop it, you can't change human nature to inovate / modify / expand one's environment. The fact that it's "adult" content is irrelavent. IT'S ALL FAKE AND IMAGINATION! (and for the record no, I don't like GTA but I refuse to get bent up over a fictional world made up of pixels)
The final point, which will show you how all the above is related, is: if parents are worried about their kids being 'affected' by GTA:SA or games like it with M-rated content ... DON'T FREAKING BUY THE GAME!! Show some f'ing backbone and say "No!" to Johnny when he brings you over to the glass case in Target! And yes they might be able to play it at their friends house, so what? That's an excuse too. It's called parenting and it will work even when your not around IF you do it well and consistently. (yes, I'm a parent)
Again, great post, doubt those that matter will get it but good none the less.
Unfortunately, it appears that many politicians believe we need protection from a firestorm of magic bullets, and they, the politicians, are the only ones with the Kevlar vests to hand out. Doesnt it bother anyone else that people like H.R.C, and in a larger sense, government in general, wants to increasingly treat citizens like children? Do we really need people in power who in one breath preach self determination and responsibility, but in another say parents are so impotent at raising their children that they need to be told what is right and wrong?
Sheesh.
* DeFleur, Melvin L. Theories of Mass Communication New York: Longman Inc., 1989
Companies such as Rockstar do not have any obligations, thank god, to make games that do not have questionable assets. That is what the ESRB is for. "Well, who actually uses that?" you might say....truthfully, probably very few people, but, that IS NOT Rockstar's fault, that is the parents fault.
I can understand where a parent would be coming from in thinking "why should any child play a game like this? There is no need from someone to play a game like this. Why would anyone want to be exposed to such filth?" Well, heres the problem. The first question posed is simply a question that is based off of what you feel is morally right or wrong. The keyword in that sentence is YOU, Y-O-U. To the second question, again the answer can be paraphrased to the following. For some people, playing out roles of the "bad guy" in a video game can be alot of fun. I'm not gonna lie, I do enjoy that feeling alot when I get a headshot in counterstrike, drop a massive artillery strike on opposing soldiers in battlefield 2 and watch the Havok physics engine throw their bodies around like a ragdoll, and drive a stolen car down the sidewalk in GTA running over as many pedestrians as I can. When I shutdown the game, reality is back, no more killing people. I enjoy it, you do not. Get ready, here comes the catching end of paragraph: IF YOU DO NOT LIKE/CONDONE/APPROVE OF GRAND THEFT AUTO, DO NOT LET YOUR CHILDREN PLAY IT.
In reality, whether you think GTA is a horrific game or not, whether it should be banned from existence or mass produced and given to every kid on their 18th birthday, whichever side of the spectrum you lie on, you have to admit this....It is the parents job to guide and raise their own children, not Hillary Clintons or Joe Leiberman.
Whew! I ended up ranting.
Companies such as Rockstar do not have any obligations, thank god, to make games that do not have questionable assets. That is what the ESRB is for. "Well, who actually uses that?" you might say....truthfully, probably very few people, but, that IS NOT Rockstar's fault, that is the parents fault.
I can understand where a parent would be coming from in thinking "why should any child play a game like this? There is no need from someone to play a game like this. Why would anyone want to be exposed to such filth?" Well, heres the problem. The first question posed is simply a question that is based off of what you feel is morally right or wrong. The keyword in that sentence is YOU, Y-O-U. To the second question, again the answer can be paraphrased to the following. For some people, playing out roles of the "bad guy" in a video game can be alot of fun. I'm not gonna lie, I do enjoy that feeling alot when I get a headshot in counterstrike, drop a massive artillery strike on opposing soldiers in battlefield 2 and watch the Havok physics engine throw their bodies around like a ragdoll, and drive a stolen car down the sidewalk in GTA running over as many pedestrians as I can. When I shutdown the game, reality is back, no more killing people. I enjoy it, you do not. Get ready, here comes the catching end of paragraph: IF YOU DO NOT LIKE/CONDONE/APPROVE OF GRAND THEFT AUTO, DO NOT LET YOUR CHILDREN PLAY IT.
In reality, whether you think GTA is a horrific game or not, whether it should be banned from existence or mass produced and given to every kid on their 18th birthday, whichever side of the spectrum you lie on, you have to admit this....It is the parents job to guide and raise their own children, not Hillary Clintons or Joe Leiberman.
Whew! I ended up ranting.