Advertising software maker 180solutions has filed suit against security company Zone Labs for allegedly telling some of 180solutions' customers that its software products are "high risk."
Such a characterization has damaged the reputation of the products, 180solutions contends, prompting one potential business partner to postpone a deal and many of 180solutions' users to uninstall the software, according to a copy of the suit obtained by CNET News.com.
The suit comes as 180solutions attempts to improve its public image and continues to take fire from anti-spyware groups, which characterize many adware products as computer-privacy time bombs.
Now, 180solutions is firing back. In the lawsuit, filed in the Superior Court of King County, Wash., last month, the company claimed that Zone Labs identified both the Zango and 180search Assistant applications, which deliver pop-up ads to users as they perform Web searches, as a "potential threat to the user's security and/or privacy."
These claims are false, according to 180solutions. The Bellevue, Wash.-based company has asked for unspecified monetary damages and an injunction forcing Zone Labs to cease its current classification of the products.
Anti-spyware and adware companies have feuded for years as Internet users have unwittingly installed ad-supported software that displays or downloads advertisements while an application is being used. Adware companies are often willing to pay others to distribute their software products, a policy that has led to many well-publicized abuses, according to anti-spyware advocates.
These abuses have included attempts to bury download disclosures in lengthy legalese; installing software surreptitiously through Web browser security holes; and making it difficult to uninstall the pop-up programs.
"In my opinion, 180solutions is a perfectly legitimate target for anti-spyware companies," said Eric Howes, a spyware researcher at the University of Illinois. "The bottom line is that we continue to find unethical and illegal installations of 180's software."
At the heart of 180solution's suit is the assertion made by San Francisco-based Zone Labs that 180's products try to monitor a user's "mouse movements and keyboard strokes."
180solutions says that because it uses the programming function Windows API Hook, which can be used to track keyboard strokes and mouse movements, Zone Labs erroneously concluded that it's taking advantage of the function in this way.
"That's just flat-out wrong," said Sean Sundwall, a spokesman for 180solutions. The company said it tried to inform Zone Labs executives that its assessment was wrong, but failed to convince them.
"The legal option was the only one we had," Sundwall said. "But this is not the start of a wave of lawsuits against anti-spyware companies."
A Zone Labs representative did not return phone calls seeking comment on Thursday.
These companies make money by "protecting" users from applications that can quite easily be removed from the add/ remove section.... the cross the line from notifying users about application installations and enter the encouraging to remove territory.
If I have an agreement with the user and you encourage the user to violate that agreement you run the risk of being sued. And i'm sorry but the argument that the "legalese" isn't fair probably wont hold up in a court where legalese is the language spoken.
180 has definitely been seen exploiting security holes and that should indeed be persued by appropriate authorities, however the action of installing through a security hole is absolutely not the same as merely existing on a desktop through a legitimate user initiated install, and zone labs does not differentiate.
Well, for one thing, since there ARE some cases of the 180 programs installing via security holes, this DOES give Zone Labs the right to classify it as a high risk and remove it. As long as one user has an illigitimate copy of 180 on their PC, the program is rogue.
Also, as far as user consent goes, although some users may have actually installed this program legitimately, this does not imply that they necessairly understood the contract. With these adware programs, sometimes their EULAs are over 4,000 words. That is a lot of text to comprehend. It is also wrong to assume a user consents by just simply pressing a next button. I say that if these adware companies really want to say they have user consent, they display this message at the install of the program.
"This program will display pop-up ads on your computer. Some data, such as websites you visit and your computer's settings may be sent to us for the purpose of delivering ads to you based on your interests and needs."
I'd say not by your comments. The junk can't be removed from the add/remove utility. It only leads you back to one of their sites so you can install more stuff you don't want. So far, MS AntiSpyware is about the only AS out there that will remove this stuff. Anything that requires an AS prog to remove IS Spyware!
Easy to remove? Yeah, if you feel like reloading your pc. As far as the agreement, there is nothing in any agreement that I'm aware of that says you cannot remove their spy/adware. People/companies like 180 are snakes.
180 Solutions has only recently even tried to look respectable. From the beginning they used every method they could to virally install their software and provided next to nothing in the way of removal software. It's only because most of those install methods have been made illegal and the failure to provide an uninstall is also illegal that they've made these steps toward legitimacy.
If there are any companies that deserves to die then 180 Solutions and their ilk are definitely at or near the top of that list.
There is nothing wrong with Zone-Labs informing me (as I requested by installing and using Zone-Labs Software) that a piece of software that I have installed in my system is POTENTIALLY unsafe. Furthmore I (the consumer) have requested and expect that Zone-Labs will provide a recommendation for dealing with a POSSIBLE threat. As such, they are merely stating that if I wish to be secure that the recommendation is to remove the POTENTIALLY offending software.
It is up to me, the CONSUMER and OWNER of the PC whether or not I actually abide by this recommendation or not.
Their malicious software is difficult at times to remove. It is not always able to remove using the add/remove program. Also by installing surreptituous software you open your system up to other spyware/malicious softwares that take advantage of the original spyware's design.
I bought a PowerBook because of companies like 180. I don't care if you are "spying" or not - until you pay for my computer stay off my hard drive. Companies like 180 should be driven out of business - they are nothing more than leeches.
So now you know that it's possible to have an OS that puts the user in charge, congratulations on switching to OS X.
180 is just a symptom. The root cause is Microsoft since they set the stage with their OS. Almost every open window has their logo or name in it. What does that tell other developers? It tells them that a PC is a glorified TV that they can use for generating ad revenue. How can anyone be surprised that adware is such a problem on the PC?
Mac OS X: Zero viruses. Zero adware. Easier to use, and less costly to maintain. :)
Why do you need to know what I type on my keyboard? Unless you're spying on me and trying to find my passwords, I can't see a legitimate use for tracking what I type. These guys are spyware. No need to get confused about their functions or activities. Yes, they like to confuse users by using Loooooooooooooong user agreements that no one reads. Zone Labs did the right thing. Microsoft is at fault too for dealing with these creeps.
And like any such spyware and malware, it could be hijacked by some virus or worm.
It would be interesting if this was the case and someone took 180solutions to court for gathering key strokes that msy just contain the full username and password to one's bank account.
We all know how well money is protected on this planet.
How about 180solutions supplying the source code, allowing the user to scrutinise the code, alter it as necced and then compile it him/herself. [=:
Are you people retarded? You're able to sign up for an account on CNET but you can't remove 180 or Zango? I just installed and uninstalled both and I managed to do it just fine. Now pay close attention and follow the bouncing dot...
Click 'Start' button Click on Control Panel Click on Add/Remove Programs Find 'Search Assistant' or 'Zango Search Assistant' Click on one of them Uninstall
This is fewer steps than it took to sign up for a CNET account.
Yes, pop-up ads are annoying, but let's at least be honest about the facts here.
Yeah that might be the easy way. But you see it is not the first time that I tried to remove it from the add/remove and you cant get it off the list. Hey try go C:/program files/ and I bet the folder is there with a DLL file. What do you think thats for decoration???
That may uninstall the program temporarily, but many spyware programs have a reinstall program that hides itself deep in the registry of the computer, so when you reboot your computer it hides itself in the start-up and reinstalls itself. Thats why you need a deep registry clean-up program to remove it from the registry. Also you will have to clean out your "cookies" and your Temporary internet files which are hidden, and if you don't know how to unhide them your problem starts all over again. Then theres the little problem of going into your program files and removing the folder from there. So you see, uninstalling this 180 program may be a little more complicated for the computer user than it is for the Network administrator. That's why I have a job.
Try installing and uninstalling n-case by 180 Solutions
Jeff, you duh man, judging from your sarcastic comments about the ease of installing the 180 Solutions spyware. Now install N-case from 180 Solutions and try uninstalling it as an exercise to erase your smug assertations in the above posting. My computer was infected with it via a driveby active-x download and I eventually had to format my hard drive to be rid of it, and to disable active-x in my browser to ensure I'd never have this scumware foisted on me again. Given that you seem to consider yourself a real smart feller, download and install N-case on your computer and be prepared to learn if you are really a smart feller or just a fart smeller. There's nothing about 180 Solutions which doesn't stink.
Even after you select the "uninstall" option, the software remains resident and fully functional. 180 is worse than Gator used to be. Not that Gator has gotten much better, but they have not been as hard to get rid of as 180's software.
Of course AOL says you just click one magic button and it's all fixed.
It seems to me that any program that hooks into the Windows keyboard/mouse APIs and transmits some of the data that it monitors is inarguably a security RISK. This word "risk" implies uncertainty, not the stuff of accusations. And even taking 180solutions at their word doesn't eliminate that RISK.
If a virus or worm is ever spread that does nothing but change the destination to which this data is sent, sending it to perhaps a foreign address rather than 180solutions, it would still go unnoticed by any security scanners that don't flag these programs as a RISK. And other minor modifications to this adware could multiply that risk a hundredfold. One of the least examined aspects of this type of adware is how it opens up new doors for more sinister exploits.
180 is nothing but an evil ad empire. Let them die. There programs are a pain in the a$$ to un-install. Ohh, and for the people who say it is so easy to uninstall, how about they use spybot search & destroy to check for spyware on there system. Ohh is that 180solutions you see. Oh damn.
How's idownloads working out for ya Arlo? Still can't find legit work?
You and your ilk are limited thinkers and must pray upon little Susie and little Billy to get what you want out of life. You and your ilk have the ethics of a racoon on a moonless night.
Sleep well tonight with this thought on your mind. You aren't welcome where decent folk dwell.
It's of no suprise that one can not come to a public news site, make a legitimate comment about some news without being name called like this is an elementary school yard at recess. Without two sides to a debate it's not a debate, it's an angry mob.
Teacher!!! Billy pulled my hair! (the rest of the kids... "Lets get him!")
"Click type wrapping" has been upheld to be valid to an extent and for those of you who regularly whine about the lengthy legalese that is in those EULA's you so quickly agree to, remember a few things: 1) You agreed to a longer eula with microsoft when you broke the seal on your computer and turned it on for the first time. 2) If you have ever installed a single piece of software you have likely agreed to an equally lengthy piece of legalese. 3) That legalese is in place because the US is a lawsuit happy nation and if a company doesn't explicitly state that you agree to indemnify their software from acts of god to your place of residence that some yokel somewhere WILL indeed sue you for it. 4) If you have replied to this thread you've already agreed to allow CNET to have quite a bit of liberty with your personal information.. per the privacy policy that i'm POSITIVE each of you has read.
"We collect personally identifiable information, such as your name, email address, postal address, phone number and credit card information when you provide it to us. From time to time, we may also collect other sensitive information such as your job title, gender, username and password. We may also receive information about you from other sources and add it to the information you provided to us.
Once you register with one of our CNET Networks sites you are no longer anonymous to us."
5) Get over yourselves. Stop installing free software without reading the EULA... and if you can't be bothered to read the EULA then it probably isn't software that is actually important to you (read: how many of you read our windows eula?)
I think they should prove they aren't logging keystrokes and mouse clicks by opening the source for the trial. Seriously, why don't they actually prove it instead of just saying so? A company that has, in fact, allowed it's ad-supporting software to be installed illegally on systems, and by virtue of the business encourages it, should own up to it's responsibilities.
That being said, there are many adware companies that have underhanded techniques associated with their software. One well known technique is to make it extremely difficult to uninstall their software. So difficult, in fact, that it takes many hours for someone to eradicate it from a system, and they are a computer professional. These companies are sedious and lude in their approach to advertising. Personally, I'd like to see each CEO indicted on charges od computer fraud and invasion of property and privacy.
180 Solutions has one thing going for them. They do NOT make it difficult to uninstall their programs. Sure, you have to download a little 2 meg file of the internet, but if you are even ON the internet, that is not much of an inconvenience. I have seen people say that 180 Solutions uninstallers aren't valid, but I have tested them myself, and they are all valid. 180 Solutions really just needs to stop letting their source code go to any affiliate that asks, and take ALL distribution in-house. They have said that they have taken all distribution in-house, but that is not true as of yet, there are still sites and companies using 180 Solutions software and installing it in underhanded ways.
I hated 180Solutions and everything else that came into my computer WAY BEFORE I knew there were solutions to remove your software, and it was extremely painful finding the right solutions. Thankfully I found Lavasoft Adaware and Microsoft Antispyware, but in the relentless defensive stance I've seem to have taken not only on my computer but surprise every other PC that my friends, family, etc. had, I switched to a Mac.
Is there a legit way we can set up and contribute to a legal defense fund for Zone Labs to help in the fight again adware pop ups.. I'd be the first to contribute..
Will someone tell me who put the people in charge of all the computers in the world. For some reason these folks think they own my computers. If I wanted this junk on my computer I would ask for it. I am all for a law like the no call list to fine all the folks or put them in jail if they get on my computer without permission. Lets just think that my computer is copyrighted so if you mess with it throw you in jail or fine you for a million dollars or so. derf
They say that there is a equal reaction for every action and for the most part I have to say it is so. There are those who wish to INVADE my computer and do so as if by right. I say, ok I'm a little guy and don't have a lot of teeth to fight back with so I arm myself with the best firewall and anti-spy/adware stuff I can. Thank you Sygate, Lavasoft, Spywareblaster and Mozilla Firefox. However having this go to court is just too scary. Their apt to say that not only can they keylog but that the Government must do so to protect the rights and freedoms of every American. And if YOU didn't have something to hide...well, YOU wouldn't compain would YOU.(insert evil laugh here) Oh, and thanks Symantec for !@#$%^&*() with my firewall. If you think I'm buying yours forget it.
As a former computer technician, 180 solutions was a popular spyware/adware that I would find on people computers, and not one person knew it was there or why. It is one of the nastier adware programs I had to deal with, and usually took several programs to fully remove all traces of it.
As a technician spending a large % of my last 2 years removing this rubbish from customers computers who had NO IDEA it was on there and never knowingly gave it permission to be installed in the first place I speak with some bias.
180 have knowingly abused millions of people via completely immoral and legally questionable methods, to make themselves money - now we seem surprised they are suing more innocent people to get what.... more money.
How these people are not in jail I do not know. Are there no decent lawyers out there willing to suit up? A class action with soo many people could actually bankrupt the owner of 180 and put a stop to this theft once and for all.
"180solutions says that because it uses the programming function Windows API Hook, which can be used to track keyboard strokes and mouse movements, Zone Labs erroneously concluded that it's taking advantage of the function in this way."
What part of using a function that can track your keystrokes do they think is alright? Sounds like a keylogger to me. I don't know who is the most idiotic...180 Solutions or SCO. They both rank high on the idiocy meter in my opinion.
Sorry. 180solutions argument just will never hold water with me. It hooks into the system and that's a no-go. On countless occasions I've removed the 180solution's software because it's causing computers I've serviced to be unstable and in a few occasions I've seen other malicious programs take advantage of 180solution's software presence.
No think you. As far as I'm conserned, ZoneLabs is right.
Personally, I feel that anyone who makes an adware program should be locked up. These relevant ad programs, as mentioned in the article, monitor everything you do. I've found so many of these adware programs on my computer thanks to my security software. I've gotten a few from 180, and I definitely did not install them. Sounds like a would-be virus manufacturer, phisher, etc.
add 180 is the werst add software on the that i have everr come acroos once you install it you r in trouble if you do not have internet conection it canot be remove even then it log it self in to parts of your system and you have no way of getting it out i had to format time and time just to get it off my computer i would not recoment anyone to use it you cant browse without pop ups dont tuch it
I had 180solutions get onto my computer once and I tryed getting rid of it with spyware removal programs several different ones.It is a malware if you ask me.My computer would not run right.I tryed to remove it with my control panel add/remove programs and it would reinstall it's self.Then I tryed to go in to my drive and manually delete all their files and I sat there and watched it come right back, every single time.So finally I had to wipe my whole drive and start over and lost a bunch of files and photos I loved.
As UC Berkeley students, the co-founders of "Back to the Roots" discovered they could grow mushrooms using recycled coffee grounds. Now their mushroom kit sells at grocery stores across the country.
Tommy Jordan, the man who shot his daughter's laptop for YouTube, gets a visit from police and child protection services. Oh, and Good Morning America.
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applications that can quite easily be removed from the add/
remove section.... the cross the line from notifying users about
application installations and enter the encouraging to remove
territory.
If I have an agreement with the user and you encourage the user
to violate that agreement you run the risk of being sued. And i'm
sorry but the argument that the "legalese" isn't fair probably
wont hold up in a court where legalese is the language spoken.
180 has definitely been seen exploiting security holes and that
should indeed be persued by appropriate authorities, however
the action of installing through a security hole is absolutely not
the same as merely existing on a desktop through a legitimate
user initiated install, and zone labs does not differentiate.
Also, as far as user consent goes, although some users may have actually installed this program legitimately, this does not imply that they necessairly understood the contract. With these adware programs, sometimes their EULAs are over 4,000 words. That is a lot of text to comprehend. It is also wrong to assume a user consents by just simply pressing a next button. I say that if these adware companies really want to say they have user consent, they display this message at the install of the program.
"This program will display pop-up ads on your computer. Some data, such as websites you visit and your computer's settings may be sent to us for the purpose of delivering ads to you based on your interests and needs."
BMR777
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.rusnakweb.com" target="_newWindow">http://www.rusnakweb.com</a>
So far, MS AntiSpyware is about the only AS out there that will remove this stuff.
Anything that requires an AS prog to remove IS Spyware!
If there are any companies that deserves to die then 180 Solutions and their ilk are definitely at or near the top of that list.
It is up to me, the CONSUMER and OWNER of the PC whether or not I actually abide by this recommendation or not.
stronger than koolaid!!!
if you are "spying" or not - until you pay for my computer stay off
my hard drive. Companies like 180 should be driven out of
business - they are nothing more than leeches.
user in charge, congratulations on switching to OS X.
180 is just a symptom. The root cause is Microsoft since they set
the stage with their OS. Almost every open window has their
logo or name in it. What does that tell other developers? It tells
them that a PC is a glorified TV that they can use for generating
ad revenue. How can anyone be surprised that adware is such a
problem on the PC?
Mac OS X: Zero viruses. Zero adware. Easier to use, and less
costly to maintain. :)
These guys are spyware. No need to get confused about their functions or activities.
Yes, they like to confuse users by using Loooooooooooooong user agreements that no one reads.
Zone Labs did the right thing. Microsoft is at fault too for dealing with these creeps.
It would be interesting if this was the case and someone took 180solutions to court for gathering key strokes that msy just contain the full username and password to one's bank account.
We all know how well money is protected on this planet.
How about 180solutions supplying the source code, allowing the user to scrutinise the code, alter it as necced and then compile it him/herself. [=:
Click 'Start' button
Click on Control Panel
Click on Add/Remove Programs
Find 'Search Assistant' or 'Zango Search Assistant'
Click on one of them
Uninstall
This is fewer steps than it took to sign up for a CNET account.
Yes, pop-up ads are annoying, but let's at least be honest about the facts here.
Go to Remove/Add
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Remove 180 again.
Of course AOL says you just click one magic button and it's all fixed.
If a virus or worm is ever spread that does nothing but change the destination to which this data is sent, sending it to perhaps a foreign address rather than 180solutions, it would still go unnoticed by any security scanners that don't flag these programs as a RISK. And other minor modifications to this adware could multiply that risk a hundredfold. One of the least examined aspects of this type of adware is how it opens up new doors for more sinister exploits.
You and your ilk are limited thinkers and must pray upon little Susie and little Billy to get what you want out of life. You and your ilk have the ethics of a racoon on a moonless night.
Sleep well tonight with this thought on your mind. You aren't welcome where decent folk dwell.
make a legitimate comment about some news without being
name called like this is an elementary school yard at recess.
Without two sides to a debate it's not a debate, it's an angry
mob.
Teacher!!! Billy pulled my hair! (the rest of the kids... "Lets get
him!")
"Click type wrapping" has been upheld to be valid to an extent
and for those of you who regularly whine about the lengthy
legalese that is in those EULA's you so quickly agree to,
remember a few things:
1) You agreed to a longer eula with microsoft when you broke
the seal on your computer and turned it on for the first time.
2) If you have ever installed a single piece of software you have
likely agreed to an equally lengthy piece of legalese.
3) That legalese is in place because the US is a lawsuit happy
nation and if a company doesn't explicitly state that you agree to
indemnify their software from acts of god to your place of
residence that some yokel somewhere WILL indeed sue you for
it.
4) If you have replied to this thread you've already agreed to
allow CNET to have quite a bit of liberty with your personal
information.. per the privacy policy that i'm POSITIVE each of you
has read.
"We collect personally identifiable information, such as your
name, email address, postal address, phone number and credit
card information when you provide it to us. From time to time,
we may also collect other sensitive information such as your job
title, gender, username and password. We may also receive
information about you from other sources and add it to the
information you provided to us.
Once you register with one of our CNET Networks sites you are
no longer anonymous to us."
5) Get over yourselves. Stop installing free software without
reading the EULA... and if you can't be bothered to read the
EULA then it probably isn't software that is actually important to
you (read: how many of you read our windows eula?)
People are such hypocrits.
That being said, there are many adware companies that have underhanded techniques associated with their software. One well known technique is to make it extremely difficult to uninstall their software. So difficult, in fact, that it takes many hours for someone to eradicate it from a system, and they are a computer professional. These companies are sedious and lude in their approach to advertising. Personally, I'd like to see each CEO indicted on charges od computer fraud and invasion of property and privacy.
I have seen people say that 180 Solutions uninstallers aren't valid, but I have tested them myself, and they are all valid.
180 Solutions really just needs to stop letting their source code go to any affiliate that asks, and take ALL distribution in-house.
They have said that they have taken all distribution in-house, but that is not true as of yet, there are still sites and companies using 180 Solutions software and installing it in underhanded ways.
computer WAY BEFORE I knew there were solutions to remove your
software, and it was extremely painful finding the right solutions.
Thankfully I found Lavasoft Adaware and Microsoft Antispyware,
but in the relentless defensive stance I've seem to have taken not
only on my computer but surprise every other PC that my friends,
family, etc. had, I switched to a Mac.
Lets just think that my computer is copyrighted so if you mess with it throw you in jail or fine you for a million dollars or so.
derf
Oh, and thanks Symantec for !@#$%^&*() with my firewall. If you think I'm buying yours forget it.
They deserve to be run out of business.
180 have knowingly abused millions of people via completely immoral and legally questionable methods, to make themselves money - now we seem surprised they are suing more innocent people to get what.... more money.
How these people are not in jail I do not know. Are there no decent lawyers out there willing to suit up? A class action with soo many people could actually bankrupt the owner of 180 and put a stop to this theft once and for all.
What part of using a function that can track your keystrokes do they think is alright? Sounds like a keylogger to me. I don't know who is the most idiotic...180 Solutions or SCO. They both rank high on the idiocy meter in my opinion.
No think you. As far as I'm conserned, ZoneLabs is right.
mj
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.junglemungle.com" target="_newWindow">http://www.junglemungle.com</a>
have everr come acroos once you install it you r in trouble if you do not have internet conection
it canot be remove even then it log it self in to parts of your system and you have no way of
getting it out i had to format time and time just to get it off my computer i would not
recoment anyone to use it you cant browse
without pop ups dont tuch it