I agree with the body of comments in that this story has me convinced the author doesn't understand anything about the PC industry beyond the press kit. Apple is about the software; the hardware is just a vehicle. Apple's business model is centered around the superior quality of its software experience and the limitation that it can only run on Mac hardware (piracy control, essesntially). Comparing the new iMac to any Windows PC is like comparing a high-end night club to a Denny's. Except this iMac is like half-price-pitcher night.
After all the PR from Intel and AMD about the end of the "Megahertz myth" and the importance of bus/cache/memory, it shocks me to find CNet comparing a G4 processor (PPC, RISC) to PC processors (x86, CISC). It also frightens me to find that this review fails to even mention the advantages of MacOSX when compared to OEM Windows installations.
The "value" of this release is not in its ability to compete with Walmart, but that there are thousands of PC users who would have switched to MacOSX a long time ago if it ran on a $500 computer.
I agree with the body of comments in that this story has me convinced the author doesn't understand anything about the PC industry beyond the press kit. Apple is about the software; the hardware is just a vehicle. Apple's business model is centered around the superior quality of its software experience and the limitation that it can only run on Mac hardware (piracy control, essesntially). Comparing the new iMac to any Windows PC is like comparing a high-end night club to a Denny's. Except this iMac is like half-price-pitcher night.
After all the PR from Intel and AMD about the end of the "Megahertz myth" and the importance of bus/cache/memory, it shocks me to find CNet comparing a G4 processor (PPC, RISC) to PC processors (x86, CISC). It also frightens me to find that this review fails to even mention the advantages of MacOSX when compared to OEM Windows installations.
The "value" of this release is not in its ability to compete with Walmart, but that there are thousands of PC users who would have switched to MacOSX a long time ago if it ran on a $500 computer.
It's nice to see lucid comments from lifetime PC users who are interested in the Mac. Not a single "Macs suck, I can build a better PC for $50" comment. I think Apple really struck a chord among the curious with the Mac Mini. As a 1.5Ghz Powerbook user, I can say that either of the models, with 512MB RAM, will perform extremely well for most common tasks, and are competent for professional content creation.
You must have been in on the Frankenstein PC argument too. I agree. It's ncie to see that there are competent, open-minded people willing to try something different. And even more willing now that the price has dropped.
When OS X came out I wanted to buy a Mac, but like most people here I couldn't justify spending $1500 to $2000 on one just to see if I liked it better than Windows. I will buy one for $499 though.
I suppose you could compare both Apples and PC's, but why bother. Macs do somethings well and PC's do somethings well. If you can buy both.
It's nice to see lucid comments from lifetime PC users who are interested in the Mac. Not a single "Macs suck, I can build a better PC for $50" comment. I think Apple really struck a chord among the curious with the Mac Mini. As a 1.5Ghz Powerbook user, I can say that either of the models, with 512MB RAM, will perform extremely well for most common tasks, and are competent for professional content creation.
You must have been in on the Frankenstein PC argument too. I agree. It's ncie to see that there are competent, open-minded people willing to try something different. And even more willing now that the price has dropped.
When OS X came out I wanted to buy a Mac, but like most people here I couldn't justify spending $1500 to $2000 on one just to see if I liked it better than Windows. I will buy one for $499 though.
I suppose you could compare both Apples and PC's, but why bother. Macs do somethings well and PC's do somethings well. If you can buy both.
It boggles my mind that the arguments "against" this machine are that it does not come with a keyboard, mouse, or monitor. It is repeated several times in the article. But lo and behold, that is exactly how it is marketed, and intended to be. So why try to make a point out of it, as if it was some kind of surprise or buyer beware?!
The other thing that bothers any computer enthusiast with any knowledge about CPUs, hardware and software. Is the constant comparison to "similar" PCs. The so-called similar PCs don't come with as much bundled capabilities as most Macs. Their CPUs can't even begin to compare against a G4, unless you are grading solely on clock speed alone. The G4 is a Reduced Instruction Set CPU (RISC) chip, that can process as much as 8 times the number of computer instructions that are required to perform on a CISC chip. Those comparable computers use CISC chips.
The value of the software alone on all current Mac totally blow away the bargain CPUs.
What about the cost of BlueTooth, Airport, a keyboard and a mouse. Clearly this box is targeted towards those that already have a keyboard, mouse and monitor. But if you look at the cost of BlueTooth, you can get a USB plug for only 39.00. The Airport is less than a 100 dollars to. And just how expensive is a keyboard? Does it have to be plated in platinum.
The bottom line is, if you want a Mac with a Keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Don't buy the mini. It's not for you. You can get a G5 iMac, built right into the LCD display, and it has a hell of a lot more horsepower.
... for my 61" Samsung HDTV. I already have the bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and I need to add a 300 GB FireWire drive, but then I'll have a perfect space saving setup for watching my Divx movies and for checking my DVD/Laser Disk/VHS library.
The mini-Mac isn't the option for serious Mac operations - my G4 towers do those. But it is a neat solution to the TV function.
It boggles my mind that the arguments "against" this machine are that it does not come with a keyboard, mouse, or monitor. It is repeated several times in the article. But lo and behold, that is exactly how it is marketed, and intended to be. So why try to make a point out of it, as if it was some kind of surprise or buyer beware?!
The other thing that bothers any computer enthusiast with any knowledge about CPUs, hardware and software. Is the constant comparison to "similar" PCs. The so-called similar PCs don't come with as much bundled capabilities as most Macs. Their CPUs can't even begin to compare against a G4, unless you are grading solely on clock speed alone. The G4 is a Reduced Instruction Set CPU (RISC) chip, that can process as much as 8 times the number of computer instructions that are required to perform on a CISC chip. Those comparable computers use CISC chips.
The value of the software alone on all current Mac totally blow away the bargain CPUs.
What about the cost of BlueTooth, Airport, a keyboard and a mouse. Clearly this box is targeted towards those that already have a keyboard, mouse and monitor. But if you look at the cost of BlueTooth, you can get a USB plug for only 39.00. The Airport is less than a 100 dollars to. And just how expensive is a keyboard? Does it have to be plated in platinum.
The bottom line is, if you want a Mac with a Keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Don't buy the mini. It's not for you. You can get a G5 iMac, built right into the LCD display, and it has a hell of a lot more horsepower.
... for my 61" Samsung HDTV. I already have the bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and I need to add a 300 GB FireWire drive, but then I'll have a perfect space saving setup for watching my Divx movies and for checking my DVD/Laser Disk/VHS library.
The mini-Mac isn't the option for serious Mac operations - my G4 towers do those. But it is a neat solution to the TV function.
When will the press ever give Apple a break? This is just a cool computer...admit it! There is no point comparing it to anything out there, because there is nothing like it. Just like there is nothing like pretty much anything apple releases. For those of us who undrstand this, it is a much better world.
In architecture school I would catch so much criticism from instructors during reviews yet my work was often far better than other school mates. I would ask why all the barbed criticism? And they would say, "hey! we really like it, it's great, it's just that when its so close to great the small things it lacks really annoy us."
That's Apple in a nutshell. Their stuff is so darn good, so undeniably superior in concept and execution to anyone else's stuff that the critics seem overly annoyed by the tiniest of details that they feel it lacks.
Lesson: The harsh criticism is actually a sign of how darn great it is. Nobody spends time knit-picking mediocrity.
When will the press ever give Apple a break? This is just a cool computer...admit it! There is no point comparing it to anything out there, because there is nothing like it. Just like there is nothing like pretty much anything apple releases. For those of us who undrstand this, it is a much better world.
In architecture school I would catch so much criticism from instructors during reviews yet my work was often far better than other school mates. I would ask why all the barbed criticism? And they would say, "hey! we really like it, it's great, it's just that when its so close to great the small things it lacks really annoy us."
That's Apple in a nutshell. Their stuff is so darn good, so undeniably superior in concept and execution to anyone else's stuff that the critics seem overly annoyed by the tiniest of details that they feel it lacks.
Lesson: The harsh criticism is actually a sign of how darn great it is. Nobody spends time knit-picking mediocrity.
There are some things that all the mac haters need to think about and look at before bashing macs anymore.
First, the ghz speed does not mean the same thing in mac and pc terms. there are countless articles about this. While the mac mini maybe 1.25ghz in mac terms that speed is not bad at all. You can do things you'd need a P4 4ghz to do. Also the OS and surrounding apple software are developed to work optimally on the mac system.
Second, you cannot beat OSX and apple software. There isn't a windows user on the planet who hasn't had a substantial system crash or otherwise in the past 2 weeks. While on the other hand, I have had a mac for over 3 years and have only had 1 system crash, which was over 2.5 years ago. I cannot recall ever having an apple software program ever crashing on me. Although very rarely a non-apple program will crash. These stats are undoubtedly the same across the mac world. I really don't understand why so many pc users have so much contempt for the apple world. Is it so bad to have software that does exactly what it is supposed to do?
Third, Remember you get what you pay for. If you go to dell or emachines you are getting what you pay for with you $400. You are getting a cheap machine, in a big box with windows and very little other software. When you pay for any mac you are getting good techonology, a ton of software that is excellent, design that is unmatched and like i said above the computer and its software work exactly as expected right out of the box without the threat of viruses. Although the G4 is not necessarily cutting edge, I would suspect that the G4 will be phased out after they can figure out a way to deal with the heat that the G5 emits.
Finally, I have heard so many people say they wouldn't buy a mac for 500 or even 300 or whatever because of past expereiences with the mac. Back in the late 90s or even until a few years ago, I would never have considered using a mac. I hated OS 9 and all of it's predecesors. But if you don't think you'd get one for any other reason, just try it bgefore you bash. The macs are great machines.
As bad as it pains me to say this. I use windows XP pro and I haven't had a crash yet on it. I also leave it on anywhere from 7 to 30 days at a time with no ill effect. You maybe asking why I would hate to say this, well, because I don't care for Microsoft. I would rather be using Linux or Mac, but some of my apps are for windows only. Someday if they every convert to Mac or linux I will say by by to windows for any reason I can think of.
There are some things that all the mac haters need to think about and look at before bashing macs anymore.
First, the ghz speed does not mean the same thing in mac and pc terms. there are countless articles about this. While the mac mini maybe 1.25ghz in mac terms that speed is not bad at all. You can do things you'd need a P4 4ghz to do. Also the OS and surrounding apple software are developed to work optimally on the mac system.
Second, you cannot beat OSX and apple software. There isn't a windows user on the planet who hasn't had a substantial system crash or otherwise in the past 2 weeks. While on the other hand, I have had a mac for over 3 years and have only had 1 system crash, which was over 2.5 years ago. I cannot recall ever having an apple software program ever crashing on me. Although very rarely a non-apple program will crash. These stats are undoubtedly the same across the mac world. I really don't understand why so many pc users have so much contempt for the apple world. Is it so bad to have software that does exactly what it is supposed to do?
Third, Remember you get what you pay for. If you go to dell or emachines you are getting what you pay for with you $400. You are getting a cheap machine, in a big box with windows and very little other software. When you pay for any mac you are getting good techonology, a ton of software that is excellent, design that is unmatched and like i said above the computer and its software work exactly as expected right out of the box without the threat of viruses. Although the G4 is not necessarily cutting edge, I would suspect that the G4 will be phased out after they can figure out a way to deal with the heat that the G5 emits.
Finally, I have heard so many people say they wouldn't buy a mac for 500 or even 300 or whatever because of past expereiences with the mac. Back in the late 90s or even until a few years ago, I would never have considered using a mac. I hated OS 9 and all of it's predecesors. But if you don't think you'd get one for any other reason, just try it bgefore you bash. The macs are great machines.
As bad as it pains me to say this. I use windows XP pro and I haven't had a crash yet on it. I also leave it on anywhere from 7 to 30 days at a time with no ill effect. You maybe asking why I would hate to say this, well, because I don't care for Microsoft. I would rather be using Linux or Mac, but some of my apps are for windows only. Someday if they every convert to Mac or linux I will say by by to windows for any reason I can think of.
You guys at c|net are sooo boring. You don't even now Mac. You judge by ads. You are stuck to your Wintel egoism and blindness and every day are trying to convince your selves (but you are not convincing any reader) with silly comparisons between apples and oranges. Keep it this way. Maybe after 5 to 6 years, when you will have what Apple customers enjoy today will understand. Till then stick with your luck uglyness. I hope you enjoy better personal than computer life.
You guys at c|net are sooo boring. You don't even now Mac. You judge by ads. You are stuck to your Wintel egoism and blindness and every day are trying to convince your selves (but you are not convincing any reader) with silly comparisons between apples and oranges. Keep it this way. Maybe after 5 to 6 years, when you will have what Apple customers enjoy today will understand. Till then stick with your luck uglyness. I hope you enjoy better personal than computer life.
You missed my point: Mac mini compares favorably at $500
I think you should re-read my post. I was questioning CNet's and NPD's curious claim that the Mac mini is a lesser value than a discount PC. I rated the two options as equal.
I keep on saying how glad I am that Apple has finally released a mass-market Macintosh.
Though my day-to-day computing is now done in Windows XP, I happen to own a Power Macintosh G4. I have been using Apple products since the days of the Apple II. On my desk sits a LaserWriter IIg, which I refurbished myself. I've been watching the KVM threads with amusement, because my Mac, my Windows PC, and my Linux PC have been sharing printers, external disk drives, mice, a keyboard, and a monitor for years now.
I would consider myself sensitive to anti-Apple bias, but not blinded by modern-day Apple hype. I am not beholden to any one brand or platform.
You missed my point: Mac mini compares favorably at $500
I think you should re-read my post. I was questioning CNet's and NPD's curious claim that the Mac mini is a lesser value than a discount PC. I rated the two options as equal.
I keep on saying how glad I am that Apple has finally released a mass-market Macintosh.
Though my day-to-day computing is now done in Windows XP, I happen to own a Power Macintosh G4. I have been using Apple products since the days of the Apple II. On my desk sits a LaserWriter IIg, which I refurbished myself. I've been watching the KVM threads with amusement, because my Mac, my Windows PC, and my Linux PC have been sharing printers, external disk drives, mice, a keyboard, and a monitor for years now.
I would consider myself sensitive to anti-Apple bias, but not blinded by modern-day Apple hype. I am not beholden to any one brand or platform.
Like another poster already wrote, what kind of software do you get with a Walmart PC? You dont get iLife, which is a godsend if your just starting out with a PC, it just makes everything easier, and what about viruses? Not nearly as many as MS. PPL have always complained about how they would buy a Mac but is too expensive, now that there is a cheaper Mac, they complain for a different reason, oh well.
Like another poster already wrote, what kind of software do you get with a Walmart PC? You dont get iLife, which is a godsend if your just starting out with a PC, it just makes everything easier, and what about viruses? Not nearly as many as MS. PPL have always complained about how they would buy a Mac but is too expensive, now that there is a cheaper Mac, they complain for a different reason, oh well.
I recently paid $430 for a computer with a 17" CRT and these specs: model name : AMD Sempron(tm) 2600+ cpu MHz : 1826.277 cache size : 256 KB MemTotal: 482864 kB 32MiB of main memory are shared for its garbage UniChrome integrated graphics. Then again, 32MiB of non-integrated graphics memory isn't enough to run anything recent well, and the Mac isn't going to be winning any gaming contests. The motherboard is based on the appropriate Via chipset. 160 GB 7200 RPM IDE HD DVD-ROM/CD-RW
That's more memory (480>256), even after sharing with the graphics. The processor is flat-out faster. Yes, I'm aware there are architectural differences. That said, they can do about the same amount of work in a clock cycle on most code. The Sempron gets in 46% more clock cycles per unit time. That means it wins. As a bonus, its FSB is clocked 100% faster. That's with the parts purchased individually at local retail stores. $50 was spent on the monitor, so we can reduce the price to $380 for comparison to the Mac Mini. After spending ~$35 on the combo optical drive, I came across a 16x DVD+/-RW for $60, so, if I'd been a little smarter, we could throw that in for an extra ~$25 instead of an extra $100. That doesn't include a license for WinXP, as the computer is running Gentoo GNU/Linux, with every single application and OS component, from kernel to GUI, optimized for the specific processor and in general with -O2 and omitted frame pointers, instead of forced to the i386 common denominator. For the cost of a WinXP license, it could be made to dual boot, but why bother? This way I get security and functionality updates by typing a single command, effectively no virus worries, and complete stability, barring hardware problems. Apple can't even feign the first of those. I can also boot a version of the same OS with all the tools needed to fix any problem from a CD, should I have to do so. I also get a case big enough to expand in (and with regular-sized, non-ridiculously-expensive drives, too) without having to be pretentious enough to claim a white and silver box with a logo on top and a slot in the front is pretty. Though, of course, some styrofoam/cardboard/cardstock, a knife, and fasteners could mimic the look, if not the size. Yeah, it might be bigger than I'd want to carry around randomly, but it's a desktop; it sits still like the desk. Unless, of course, you attend LAN parties with your 32MiB graphics card Apple.
I beat Apple by $119, and I could install a comparable application to anything Apple bundles for free on a whim with one line of typing (plus one more if I have to find the application's name by function). I say could because my mother, the computer's primary user, couldn't care less about mastering DVD's from video shot with a digital video camera that we, like many (most?) $500-ish computer owners, could never afford, and she doesn't have any interest in composing or performing music, editing photos, or buying digital music with DRM wrappers. (As a sidenote, full single-sided DVD images are 4.5GiB, and very nearly that much in video files is needed to make one. There goes ~25% of 40GiB per master.) If my mom dislikes a feature of her interface (and I mean stuff more substantial than colors, although it applies to themes, as well), she or I can change it a setting or just switch to a completely different GUI. ReiserFS is superior, as well. As yet another bonus, my handicapped mother can use a joystick as her pointing device instead of a mouse with the full, transparent support of all mouse-using applications and no additional cost for the software to make that work. Oh, she can skip the "unskippable" warnings and trailers at the front of various DVD with her player, too. Also, it doesn't matter if it's a 2nd or 257th computer, the Mac Mini is inferior. I don't see why one would suddenly decide to buy a computer that does less than it could for the same cost just because one already has a computer.
Yes, you can build a high performance linux PC for less. BUT, you don't have any support and hardly any warranty. While this is fine for most techies, it cannot address the average users need who would have to buy from Dell. Additionally, these people usually are not looking for higher performance. By the way, a crashed 3GHz XP PC is slower than even a 300MHz Mac OS/X G3...
So compared to a Dell PC, the mini Mac running BSD Unix based MacOS/X is a better deal.
I know that I will try one JUST because of MacOS/X!!!
your 1.8ghz CISC chip simple does not compare with a 1.2ghz G4 RISC chip. You don't know that, most lay-people don't know that. Ask an engineer. Ask, "what are floating point instructions", ask "why does that G4 chip run somethings 8 times faster than my chip". Sooner or later, you might actually begin to understand that the engineers are a little better at putting together a computer than you are.
I agree with one item. The G4 at 1.2 to 1.4 Ghz is equal to an Athlon at 1.8Ghz - 2G hz. But that's about it. The G4 also has a 128-bit vector-processing unit that means it will fly past your Athlon machine with anything that leverage that third specialized unit. (eg: video processing, Photoshop filters, iTunes ripping, etc.).
In terms of software, there is nothing out there you can buy that can compare favorably to Apple's iLife software and the way it all works together. Show me a suite of PC apps that match iLife and I'll show you a purple monkey.
iTunes alone is better than any other jukebox out there and iDVD has no equal in the consumer space. In fact, iMovie (the new one with HD support) had no equal either.
You also get a nice collection of software that isn't in iLife, like iCal and iSync -- both work very well. iSync works great on multiple devices and the Dot Mac services. You don't get that with that PC.
Second, you have to purchase anti-virus software these days with a PC. There is no way around it if you are connected. It's totally optional on a Mac.
When you factor the real speed based on applications that people use (Photoshop, Acrobat, iTunes, email, etc). you realize that the Mac mini is a complete toss up with most PCs in its price range. It's stupid to talk details with a consumer machine that people are going to do generalized "digital lifestyle" stuff with. It's not about speed anymore anyway.
The fact is the Mac mini offers consumers far superior connectivity to digital devices and provides them best-of-breed apps for video, music, and photos -- and a better surfing experience. All virus free.
So please, tell me where one can buy your configuration in a store. Oh wait...
Your argument only holds water *if* the target user is aware of Linux and wants to use it, *if* they're willing to hand-pick components (or have someone hand-pick the components for them), and *if* they actually have the support of someone who knows how to manage the OS.
So in other words, in order to save about $110 dollars, you either have to know a lot about technology, or know the right people. That's not really going to set the computing market on fire - and it's probably why "Linux on the desktop" has been stalling out for the past few years.
The Mac mini offers the Not Windows factor, but in a much more universally accessible way - and I'm not talking about the OS, either.
Besides, how many typical Linux boxes can you literally carry home from the store in one hand... or one piece, for that matter?
Apple isn't trying to compete with homebuilders running Linux.
A fair comparison would be a prebuilt machine since that is what Apple is selling. If you added Windows XP (legally) to your system the price jumps up to $480, and I'd pay $20 for the size difference. The prebuilt $500 Windows machines tend to be junk which is one reason you (and I) did the homebuild. I also haven't seen any companies selling a prebuilt linux box with comparable specs for $500, but again Apple isn't trying to use this product to take marketshare away from tech savy Linux users. Still, I think that even a few Linux junkies might be intrigued by the small size (and price) of this unit.
For many users, the mini mac fits their needs (general office, internet, and some graphics/video manipulation), and unlike Linux, your mother would probably be able to operate the Mac OS without much trouble. If your mother didn't have you to build her machine and help her out, would she be running Linux?
I recently paid $430 for a computer with a 17" CRT and these specs: model name : AMD Sempron(tm) 2600+ cpu MHz : 1826.277 cache size : 256 KB MemTotal: 482864 kB 32MiB of main memory are shared for its garbage UniChrome integrated graphics. Then again, 32MiB of non-integrated graphics memory isn't enough to run anything recent well, and the Mac isn't going to be winning any gaming contests. The motherboard is based on the appropriate Via chipset. 160 GB 7200 RPM IDE HD DVD-ROM/CD-RW
That's more memory (480>256), even after sharing with the graphics. The processor is flat-out faster. Yes, I'm aware there are architectural differences. That said, they can do about the same amount of work in a clock cycle on most code. The Sempron gets in 46% more clock cycles per unit time. That means it wins. As a bonus, its FSB is clocked 100% faster. That's with the parts purchased individually at local retail stores. $50 was spent on the monitor, so we can reduce the price to $380 for comparison to the Mac Mini. After spending ~$35 on the combo optical drive, I came across a 16x DVD+/-RW for $60, so, if I'd been a little smarter, we could throw that in for an extra ~$25 instead of an extra $100. That doesn't include a license for WinXP, as the computer is running Gentoo GNU/Linux, with every single application and OS component, from kernel to GUI, optimized for the specific processor and in general with -O2 and omitted frame pointers, instead of forced to the i386 common denominator. For the cost of a WinXP license, it could be made to dual boot, but why bother? This way I get security and functionality updates by typing a single command, effectively no virus worries, and complete stability, barring hardware problems. Apple can't even feign the first of those. I can also boot a version of the same OS with all the tools needed to fix any problem from a CD, should I have to do so. I also get a case big enough to expand in (and with regular-sized, non-ridiculously-expensive drives, too) without having to be pretentious enough to claim a white and silver box with a logo on top and a slot in the front is pretty. Though, of course, some styrofoam/cardboard/cardstock, a knife, and fasteners could mimic the look, if not the size. Yeah, it might be bigger than I'd want to carry around randomly, but it's a desktop; it sits still like the desk. Unless, of course, you attend LAN parties with your 32MiB graphics card Apple.
I beat Apple by $119, and I could install a comparable application to anything Apple bundles for free on a whim with one line of typing (plus one more if I have to find the application's name by function). I say could because my mother, the computer's primary user, couldn't care less about mastering DVD's from video shot with a digital video camera that we, like many (most?) $500-ish computer owners, could never afford, and she doesn't have any interest in composing or performing music, editing photos, or buying digital music with DRM wrappers. (As a sidenote, full single-sided DVD images are 4.5GiB, and very nearly that much in video files is needed to make one. There goes ~25% of 40GiB per master.) If my mom dislikes a feature of her interface (and I mean stuff more substantial than colors, although it applies to themes, as well), she or I can change it a setting or just switch to a completely different GUI. ReiserFS is superior, as well. As yet another bonus, my handicapped mother can use a joystick as her pointing device instead of a mouse with the full, transparent support of all mouse-using applications and no additional cost for the software to make that work. Oh, she can skip the "unskippable" warnings and trailers at the front of various DVD with her player, too. Also, it doesn't matter if it's a 2nd or 257th computer, the Mac Mini is inferior. I don't see why one would suddenly decide to buy a computer that does less than it could for the same cost just because one already has a computer.
Yes, you can build a high performance linux PC for less. BUT, you don't have any support and hardly any warranty. While this is fine for most techies, it cannot address the average users need who would have to buy from Dell. Additionally, these people usually are not looking for higher performance. By the way, a crashed 3GHz XP PC is slower than even a 300MHz Mac OS/X G3...
So compared to a Dell PC, the mini Mac running BSD Unix based MacOS/X is a better deal.
I know that I will try one JUST because of MacOS/X!!!
your 1.8ghz CISC chip simple does not compare with a 1.2ghz G4 RISC chip. You don't know that, most lay-people don't know that. Ask an engineer. Ask, "what are floating point instructions", ask "why does that G4 chip run somethings 8 times faster than my chip". Sooner or later, you might actually begin to understand that the engineers are a little better at putting together a computer than you are.
I agree with one item. The G4 at 1.2 to 1.4 Ghz is equal to an Athlon at 1.8Ghz - 2G hz. But that's about it. The G4 also has a 128-bit vector-processing unit that means it will fly past your Athlon machine with anything that leverage that third specialized unit. (eg: video processing, Photoshop filters, iTunes ripping, etc.).
In terms of software, there is nothing out there you can buy that can compare favorably to Apple's iLife software and the way it all works together. Show me a suite of PC apps that match iLife and I'll show you a purple monkey.
iTunes alone is better than any other jukebox out there and iDVD has no equal in the consumer space. In fact, iMovie (the new one with HD support) had no equal either.
You also get a nice collection of software that isn't in iLife, like iCal and iSync -- both work very well. iSync works great on multiple devices and the Dot Mac services. You don't get that with that PC.
Second, you have to purchase anti-virus software these days with a PC. There is no way around it if you are connected. It's totally optional on a Mac.
When you factor the real speed based on applications that people use (Photoshop, Acrobat, iTunes, email, etc). you realize that the Mac mini is a complete toss up with most PCs in its price range. It's stupid to talk details with a consumer machine that people are going to do generalized "digital lifestyle" stuff with. It's not about speed anymore anyway.
The fact is the Mac mini offers consumers far superior connectivity to digital devices and provides them best-of-breed apps for video, music, and photos -- and a better surfing experience. All virus free.
So please, tell me where one can buy your configuration in a store. Oh wait...
Your argument only holds water *if* the target user is aware of Linux and wants to use it, *if* they're willing to hand-pick components (or have someone hand-pick the components for them), and *if* they actually have the support of someone who knows how to manage the OS.
So in other words, in order to save about $110 dollars, you either have to know a lot about technology, or know the right people. That's not really going to set the computing market on fire - and it's probably why "Linux on the desktop" has been stalling out for the past few years.
The Mac mini offers the Not Windows factor, but in a much more universally accessible way - and I'm not talking about the OS, either.
Besides, how many typical Linux boxes can you literally carry home from the store in one hand... or one piece, for that matter?
Apple isn't trying to compete with homebuilders running Linux.
A fair comparison would be a prebuilt machine since that is what Apple is selling. If you added Windows XP (legally) to your system the price jumps up to $480, and I'd pay $20 for the size difference. The prebuilt $500 Windows machines tend to be junk which is one reason you (and I) did the homebuild. I also haven't seen any companies selling a prebuilt linux box with comparable specs for $500, but again Apple isn't trying to use this product to take marketshare away from tech savy Linux users. Still, I think that even a few Linux junkies might be intrigued by the small size (and price) of this unit.
For many users, the mini mac fits their needs (general office, internet, and some graphics/video manipulation), and unlike Linux, your mother would probably be able to operate the Mac OS without much trouble. If your mother didn't have you to build her machine and help her out, would she be running Linux?
...reasons to buy a Mac mini apart from price and size:
1) Adequate tech specs to run almost anything and more. It has more computing power than my Powerbook G4 which is more than enough for most things. 2) Great connectivity both wired and wireless. USB 2.0, Firewire, Ethernet, DVI, VGA right out of the box. WiFi and Bluetooth for some additional $$$. 3) The ability to connect to HD/TV or regular TV sets with a really cheap adapter transforms this device into a "portable" DVD+slideshow player, so take 100 bucks off the price only for that (or try to do the same with a PC tower). 4) Compatibility: the open source community is doing great in porting things to mac OS X, and the amount of freeware available to do stuff like video encoding/decoding, audio recording, scientific applications and so keeps growing strongly as the platform validates itself in time. 5) SOFTWARE: simply unbeatable OS. With Tiger coming soon there's no way Windows can match all the capabilities of OSX any time soon. As for iLife '05: no body payed much attention to the upgrades made to the iLife suite, but to me they look impressive, making this group of programs close to perfect for the average consumer/creator of digital content 6) Portability. Although I'm not so sure about this one. If it was truly portable this would have been emphasized during Jobs' keynote. My only concern is about how firm and/or cushioned are the hard drive and other components assembled. 7) Enhanced iPod/iTunes experience. The Windows versions work quite well but there's nothing like the integration you can see in the Mac. 8) Versatility. I've checked several internet forums and it's amazing to see all the different uses people is coming up with for a Mac mini. If the product can meet at least 70% of the expectations it's going to be a big hit.
Now some reasons not to buy a mac mini:
1) You hate everything coming from Apple. And that's one of your inalienable rights! Don't let us take that away from you and stick with your Windows PC. Peace. 2) You don't have a display, keyboard and mouse to spare, and can't afford to buy them just for the mini. 3) Video RAM not enough for SOME high-end 3D games. I'm not into gaming but if you're a serious 3D shooter try first if your favorite game works smoothly enough not to drive you crazy. You might be in for a surprise though. 4) No audio-in. Although It's possible to get cheap USB mics or more expensive USB or Firewire audio interfaces for Garage Band. As for video conferencing the webcam from Apple, iSight, comes with an internal mic. But then again adding extra cash to the original price. 5) Limited expandability. If you want to add more RAM you better take it to an Apple service provider or order it with additional RAM (ridiculously expensive from Apple as usual). Similarly if you want WiFi capabilities you better order it with an Airport Extreme card installed since the same applies to other upgrades. 6) You're in the wrong market. This is targeted to home computing, something that some people forget. So if you're looking for equipment for a Pro setting you better look somewhere else (check the G5s or 64-bit AMDs). And be ready to pay for it. 7) You want to wait for a second breed of the mini or for the comments and reviews from early adopters to see if it matches the expectations that are raising since the announcement at MWSF.
All in all I think Apple got it right this time. This is a perfect bait for people who wouldn't dare to try a Mac because of the (arguable) high price tag. If they take the opportunity and are properly guided to explore all the things they can do with this Mac I'm sure a lot of them will continue using and enjoying the "newly discovered" platform. If the Mac mini sells well I can see Apple creating and expanding around the same concept, like with the iPod. Then the days for a fully equipped Apple "Media Center" (obviously with a different name) are not too far.
...reasons to buy a Mac mini apart from price and size:
1) Adequate tech specs to run almost anything and more. It has more computing power than my Powerbook G4 which is more than enough for most things. 2) Great connectivity both wired and wireless. USB 2.0, Firewire, Ethernet, DVI, VGA right out of the box. WiFi and Bluetooth for some additional $$$. 3) The ability to connect to HD/TV or regular TV sets with a really cheap adapter transforms this device into a "portable" DVD+slideshow player, so take 100 bucks off the price only for that (or try to do the same with a PC tower). 4) Compatibility: the open source community is doing great in porting things to mac OS X, and the amount of freeware available to do stuff like video encoding/decoding, audio recording, scientific applications and so keeps growing strongly as the platform validates itself in time. 5) SOFTWARE: simply unbeatable OS. With Tiger coming soon there's no way Windows can match all the capabilities of OSX any time soon. As for iLife '05: no body payed much attention to the upgrades made to the iLife suite, but to me they look impressive, making this group of programs close to perfect for the average consumer/creator of digital content 6) Portability. Although I'm not so sure about this one. If it was truly portable this would have been emphasized during Jobs' keynote. My only concern is about how firm and/or cushioned are the hard drive and other components assembled. 7) Enhanced iPod/iTunes experience. The Windows versions work quite well but there's nothing like the integration you can see in the Mac. 8) Versatility. I've checked several internet forums and it's amazing to see all the different uses people is coming up with for a Mac mini. If the product can meet at least 70% of the expectations it's going to be a big hit.
Now some reasons not to buy a mac mini:
1) You hate everything coming from Apple. And that's one of your inalienable rights! Don't let us take that away from you and stick with your Windows PC. Peace. 2) You don't have a display, keyboard and mouse to spare, and can't afford to buy them just for the mini. 3) Video RAM not enough for SOME high-end 3D games. I'm not into gaming but if you're a serious 3D shooter try first if your favorite game works smoothly enough not to drive you crazy. You might be in for a surprise though. 4) No audio-in. Although It's possible to get cheap USB mics or more expensive USB or Firewire audio interfaces for Garage Band. As for video conferencing the webcam from Apple, iSight, comes with an internal mic. But then again adding extra cash to the original price. 5) Limited expandability. If you want to add more RAM you better take it to an Apple service provider or order it with additional RAM (ridiculously expensive from Apple as usual). Similarly if you want WiFi capabilities you better order it with an Airport Extreme card installed since the same applies to other upgrades. 6) You're in the wrong market. This is targeted to home computing, something that some people forget. So if you're looking for equipment for a Pro setting you better look somewhere else (check the G5s or 64-bit AMDs). And be ready to pay for it. 7) You want to wait for a second breed of the mini or for the comments and reviews from early adopters to see if it matches the expectations that are raising since the announcement at MWSF.
All in all I think Apple got it right this time. This is a perfect bait for people who wouldn't dare to try a Mac because of the (arguable) high price tag. If they take the opportunity and are properly guided to explore all the things they can do with this Mac I'm sure a lot of them will continue using and enjoying the "newly discovered" platform. If the Mac mini sells well I can see Apple creating and expanding around the same concept, like with the iPod. Then the days for a fully equipped Apple "Media Center" (obviously with a different name) are not too far.
I appreciate the complete lack of specifics from the IDC quote, "well, to add the stuff you'd want it was 1300." What on earth did they add that was 700? memory and harddrive upgrades, shouldn't be nearly that much, adding a dvd burner is only 100. Where did this number come from, 'journalist'?
I appreciate the complete lack of specifics from the IDC quote, "well, to add the stuff you'd want it was 1300." What on earth did they add that was 700? memory and harddrive upgrades, shouldn't be nearly that much, adding a dvd burner is only 100. Where did this number come from, 'journalist'?
Windows Adds >$300 of Support Costs + Malware Software 1st Year
You forgot to add the 3 anti-spyware apps you'll have to buy, the anti-virus software you'll have to buy, and the 5 hours it will take for someone to fix your Windows PC when it is overtaken by viruses and spyware. Not to mention the blue screen "features" already built into the operating system.
With the Mac, you will have a more reliable system, with hardware MADE for the O/S, not an O/S made by one company and a PC made by another. The hardware works well with the O/S and the Apple programs are easy to use since they share functionality and keyboard shortcuts with each other. Plus Apple is known for its reliablity. Just read Consumer Reports and you will see they are tops.
That being said, there are still applications that only run on Windows. So, have your old Windows clunker sitting around for those few and get a real PC (APPLE) if you're sick of supporting your own PC and actually want to get some work done.
Windows Adds >$300 of Support Costs + Malware Software 1st Year
You forgot to add the 3 anti-spyware apps you'll have to buy, the anti-virus software you'll have to buy, and the 5 hours it will take for someone to fix your Windows PC when it is overtaken by viruses and spyware. Not to mention the blue screen "features" already built into the operating system.
With the Mac, you will have a more reliable system, with hardware MADE for the O/S, not an O/S made by one company and a PC made by another. The hardware works well with the O/S and the Apple programs are easy to use since they share functionality and keyboard shortcuts with each other. Plus Apple is known for its reliablity. Just read Consumer Reports and you will see they are tops.
That being said, there are still applications that only run on Windows. So, have your old Windows clunker sitting around for those few and get a real PC (APPLE) if you're sick of supporting your own PC and actually want to get some work done.
Manage updates with the Download App
After all the PR from Intel and AMD about the end of the "Megahertz myth" and the importance of bus/cache/memory, it shocks me to find CNet comparing a G4 processor (PPC, RISC) to PC processors (x86, CISC). It also frightens me to find that this review fails to even mention the advantages of MacOSX when compared to OEM Windows installations.
The "value" of this release is not in its ability to compete with Walmart, but that there are thousands of PC users who would have switched to MacOSX a long time ago if it ran on a $500 computer.
After all the PR from Intel and AMD about the end of the "Megahertz myth" and the importance of bus/cache/memory, it shocks me to find CNet comparing a G4 processor (PPC, RISC) to PC processors (x86, CISC). It also frightens me to find that this review fails to even mention the advantages of MacOSX when compared to OEM Windows installations.
The "value" of this release is not in its ability to compete with Walmart, but that there are thousands of PC users who would have switched to MacOSX a long time ago if it ran on a $500 computer.
interested in the Mac. Not a single "Macs suck, I can build a
better PC for $50" comment. I think Apple really struck a chord
among the curious with the Mac Mini. As a 1.5Ghz Powerbook
user, I can say that either of the models, with 512MB RAM, will
perform extremely well for most common tasks, and are
competent for professional content creation.
When OS X came out I wanted to buy a Mac, but like most people here I couldn't justify spending $1500 to $2000 on one just to see if I liked it better than Windows. I will buy one for $499 though.
I suppose you could compare both Apples and PC's, but why bother. Macs do somethings well and PC's do somethings well. If you can buy both.
interested in the Mac. Not a single "Macs suck, I can build a
better PC for $50" comment. I think Apple really struck a chord
among the curious with the Mac Mini. As a 1.5Ghz Powerbook
user, I can say that either of the models, with 512MB RAM, will
perform extremely well for most common tasks, and are
competent for professional content creation.
When OS X came out I wanted to buy a Mac, but like most people here I couldn't justify spending $1500 to $2000 on one just to see if I liked it better than Windows. I will buy one for $499 though.
I suppose you could compare both Apples and PC's, but why bother. Macs do somethings well and PC's do somethings well. If you can buy both.
are that it does not come with a keyboard, mouse, or monitor. It
is repeated several times in the article. But lo and behold, that
is exactly how it is marketed, and intended to be. So why try to
make a point out of it, as if it was some kind of surprise or
buyer beware?!
The other thing that bothers any computer enthusiast with any
knowledge about CPUs, hardware and software. Is the constant
comparison to "similar" PCs. The so-called similar PCs don't
come with as much bundled capabilities as most Macs. Their
CPUs can't even begin to compare against a G4, unless you are
grading solely on clock speed alone. The G4 is a Reduced
Instruction Set CPU (RISC) chip, that can process as much as 8
times the number of computer instructions that are required to
perform on a CISC chip. Those comparable computers use CISC
chips.
The value of the software alone on all current Mac totally blow
away the bargain CPUs.
What about the cost of BlueTooth, Airport, a keyboard and a
mouse. Clearly this box is targeted towards those that already
have a keyboard, mouse and monitor. But if you look at the cost
of BlueTooth, you can get a USB plug for only 39.00. The
Airport is less than a 100 dollars to. And just how expensive is
a keyboard? Does it have to be plated in platinum.
The bottom line is, if you want a Mac with a Keyboard, mouse,
and monitor. Don't buy the mini. It's not for you. You can get a
G5 iMac, built right into the LCD display, and it has a hell of a lot
more horsepower.
keyboard and mouse, and I need to add a 300 GB FireWire drive,
but then I'll have a perfect space saving setup for watching my
Divx movies and for checking my DVD/Laser Disk/VHS library.
The mini-Mac isn't the option for serious Mac operations - my
G4 towers do those. But it is a neat solution to the TV function.
are that it does not come with a keyboard, mouse, or monitor. It
is repeated several times in the article. But lo and behold, that
is exactly how it is marketed, and intended to be. So why try to
make a point out of it, as if it was some kind of surprise or
buyer beware?!
The other thing that bothers any computer enthusiast with any
knowledge about CPUs, hardware and software. Is the constant
comparison to "similar" PCs. The so-called similar PCs don't
come with as much bundled capabilities as most Macs. Their
CPUs can't even begin to compare against a G4, unless you are
grading solely on clock speed alone. The G4 is a Reduced
Instruction Set CPU (RISC) chip, that can process as much as 8
times the number of computer instructions that are required to
perform on a CISC chip. Those comparable computers use CISC
chips.
The value of the software alone on all current Mac totally blow
away the bargain CPUs.
What about the cost of BlueTooth, Airport, a keyboard and a
mouse. Clearly this box is targeted towards those that already
have a keyboard, mouse and monitor. But if you look at the cost
of BlueTooth, you can get a USB plug for only 39.00. The
Airport is less than a 100 dollars to. And just how expensive is
a keyboard? Does it have to be plated in platinum.
The bottom line is, if you want a Mac with a Keyboard, mouse,
and monitor. Don't buy the mini. It's not for you. You can get a
G5 iMac, built right into the LCD display, and it has a hell of a lot
more horsepower.
keyboard and mouse, and I need to add a 300 GB FireWire drive,
but then I'll have a perfect space saving setup for watching my
Divx movies and for checking my DVD/Laser Disk/VHS library.
The mini-Mac isn't the option for serious Mac operations - my
G4 towers do those. But it is a neat solution to the TV function.
computer...admit it! There is no point comparing it to anything
out there, because there is nothing like it. Just like there is
nothing like pretty much anything apple releases. For those of
us who undrstand this, it is a much better world.
That's Apple in a nutshell. Their stuff is so darn good, so undeniably superior in concept and execution to anyone else's stuff that the critics seem overly annoyed by the tiniest of details that they feel it lacks.
Lesson: The harsh criticism is actually a sign of how darn great it is. Nobody spends time knit-picking mediocrity.
computer...admit it! There is no point comparing it to anything
out there, because there is nothing like it. Just like there is
nothing like pretty much anything apple releases. For those of
us who undrstand this, it is a much better world.
That's Apple in a nutshell. Their stuff is so darn good, so undeniably superior in concept and execution to anyone else's stuff that the critics seem overly annoyed by the tiniest of details that they feel it lacks.
Lesson: The harsh criticism is actually a sign of how darn great it is. Nobody spends time knit-picking mediocrity.
First, the ghz speed does not mean the same thing in mac and pc terms. there are countless articles about this. While the mac mini maybe 1.25ghz in mac terms that speed is not bad at all. You can do things you'd need a P4 4ghz to do. Also the OS and surrounding apple software are developed to work optimally on the mac system.
Second, you cannot beat OSX and apple software. There isn't a windows user on the planet who hasn't had a substantial system crash or otherwise in the past 2 weeks. While on the other hand, I have had a mac for over 3 years and have only had 1 system crash, which was over 2.5 years ago. I cannot recall ever having an apple software program ever crashing on me. Although very rarely a non-apple program will crash. These stats are undoubtedly the same across the mac world. I really don't understand why so many pc users have so much contempt for the apple world. Is it so bad to have software that does exactly what it is supposed to do?
Third, Remember you get what you pay for. If you go to dell or emachines you are getting what you pay for with you $400. You are getting a cheap machine, in a big box with windows and very little other software. When you pay for any mac you are getting good techonology, a ton of software that is excellent, design that is unmatched and like i said above the computer and its software work exactly as expected right out of the box without the threat of viruses. Although the G4 is not necessarily cutting edge, I would suspect that the G4 will be phased out after they can figure out a way to deal with the heat that the G5 emits.
Finally, I have heard so many people say they wouldn't buy a mac for 500 or even 300 or whatever because of past expereiences with the mac. Back in the late 90s or even until a few years ago, I would never have considered using a mac. I hated OS 9 and all of it's predecesors. But if you don't think you'd get one for any other reason, just try it bgefore you bash. The macs are great machines.
First, the ghz speed does not mean the same thing in mac and pc terms. there are countless articles about this. While the mac mini maybe 1.25ghz in mac terms that speed is not bad at all. You can do things you'd need a P4 4ghz to do. Also the OS and surrounding apple software are developed to work optimally on the mac system.
Second, you cannot beat OSX and apple software. There isn't a windows user on the planet who hasn't had a substantial system crash or otherwise in the past 2 weeks. While on the other hand, I have had a mac for over 3 years and have only had 1 system crash, which was over 2.5 years ago. I cannot recall ever having an apple software program ever crashing on me. Although very rarely a non-apple program will crash. These stats are undoubtedly the same across the mac world. I really don't understand why so many pc users have so much contempt for the apple world. Is it so bad to have software that does exactly what it is supposed to do?
Third, Remember you get what you pay for. If you go to dell or emachines you are getting what you pay for with you $400. You are getting a cheap machine, in a big box with windows and very little other software. When you pay for any mac you are getting good techonology, a ton of software that is excellent, design that is unmatched and like i said above the computer and its software work exactly as expected right out of the box without the threat of viruses. Although the G4 is not necessarily cutting edge, I would suspect that the G4 will be phased out after they can figure out a way to deal with the heat that the G5 emits.
Finally, I have heard so many people say they wouldn't buy a mac for 500 or even 300 or whatever because of past expereiences with the mac. Back in the late 90s or even until a few years ago, I would never have considered using a mac. I hated OS 9 and all of it's predecesors. But if you don't think you'd get one for any other reason, just try it bgefore you bash. The macs are great machines.
You don't even now Mac. You judge by ads.
You are stuck to your Wintel egoism and blindness and every
day are trying to convince your selves (but you are not
convincing any reader) with silly comparisons between apples
and oranges.
Keep it this way. Maybe after 5 to 6 years, when you will have
what Apple customers enjoy today will understand.
Till then stick with your luck uglyness. I hope you enjoy better
personal than computer life.
Sooo boring...
Charis Tsevis
You don't even now Mac. You judge by ads.
You are stuck to your Wintel egoism and blindness and every
day are trying to convince your selves (but you are not
convincing any reader) with silly comparisons between apples
and oranges.
Keep it this way. Maybe after 5 to 6 years, when you will have
what Apple customers enjoy today will understand.
Till then stick with your luck uglyness. I hope you enjoy better
personal than computer life.
Sooo boring...
Charis Tsevis
I keep on saying how glad I am that Apple has finally released a mass-market Macintosh.
Though my day-to-day computing is now done in Windows XP, I happen to own a Power Macintosh G4. I have been using Apple products since the days of the Apple II. On my desk sits a LaserWriter IIg, which I refurbished myself. I've been watching the KVM threads with amusement, because my Mac, my Windows PC, and my Linux PC have been sharing printers, external disk drives, mice, a keyboard, and a monitor for years now.
I would consider myself sensitive to anti-Apple bias, but not blinded by modern-day Apple hype. I am not beholden to any one brand or platform.
Paul Marcelin-Sampson
Santa Cruz, California, USA
I keep on saying how glad I am that Apple has finally released a mass-market Macintosh.
Though my day-to-day computing is now done in Windows XP, I happen to own a Power Macintosh G4. I have been using Apple products since the days of the Apple II. On my desk sits a LaserWriter IIg, which I refurbished myself. I've been watching the KVM threads with amusement, because my Mac, my Windows PC, and my Linux PC have been sharing printers, external disk drives, mice, a keyboard, and a monitor for years now.
I would consider myself sensitive to anti-Apple bias, but not blinded by modern-day Apple hype. I am not beholden to any one brand or platform.
Paul Marcelin-Sampson
Santa Cruz, California, USA
model name : AMD Sempron(tm) 2600+
cpu MHz : 1826.277
cache size : 256 KB
MemTotal: 482864 kB
32MiB of main memory are shared for its garbage UniChrome integrated graphics. Then again, 32MiB of non-integrated graphics memory isn't enough to run anything recent well, and the Mac isn't going to be winning any gaming contests.
The motherboard is based on the appropriate Via chipset.
160 GB 7200 RPM IDE HD
DVD-ROM/CD-RW
That's more memory (480>256), even after sharing with the graphics. The processor is flat-out faster. Yes, I'm aware there are architectural differences. That said, they can do about the same amount of work in a clock cycle on most code. The Sempron gets in 46% more clock cycles per unit time. That means it wins. As a bonus, its FSB is clocked 100% faster.
That's with the parts purchased individually at local retail stores. $50 was spent on the monitor, so we can reduce the price to $380 for comparison to the Mac Mini. After spending ~$35 on the combo optical drive, I came across a 16x DVD+/-RW for $60, so, if I'd been a little smarter, we could throw that in for an extra ~$25 instead of an extra $100.
That doesn't include a license for WinXP, as the computer is running Gentoo GNU/Linux, with every single application and OS component, from kernel to GUI, optimized for the specific processor and in general with -O2 and omitted frame pointers, instead of forced to the i386 common denominator. For the cost of a WinXP license, it could be made to dual boot, but why bother? This way I get security and functionality updates by typing a single command, effectively no virus worries, and complete stability, barring hardware problems. Apple can't even feign the first of those. I can also boot a version of the same OS with all the tools needed to fix any problem from a CD, should I have to do so.
I also get a case big enough to expand in (and with regular-sized, non-ridiculously-expensive drives, too) without having to be pretentious enough to claim a white and silver box with a logo on top and a slot in the front is pretty. Though, of course, some styrofoam/cardboard/cardstock, a knife, and fasteners could mimic the look, if not the size. Yeah, it might be bigger than I'd want to carry around randomly, but it's a desktop; it sits still like the desk. Unless, of course, you attend LAN parties with your 32MiB graphics card Apple.
I beat Apple by $119, and I could install a comparable application to anything Apple bundles for free on a whim with one line of typing (plus one more if I have to find the application's name by function). I say could because my mother, the computer's primary user, couldn't care less about mastering DVD's from video shot with a digital video camera that we, like many (most?) $500-ish computer owners, could never afford, and she doesn't have any interest in composing or performing music, editing photos, or buying digital music with DRM wrappers. (As a sidenote, full single-sided DVD images are 4.5GiB, and very nearly that much in video files is needed to make one. There goes ~25% of 40GiB per master.) If my mom dislikes a feature of her interface (and I mean stuff more substantial than colors, although it applies to themes, as well), she or I can change it a setting or just switch to a completely different GUI. ReiserFS is superior, as well. As yet another bonus, my handicapped mother can use a joystick as her pointing device instead of a mouse with the full, transparent support of all mouse-using applications and no additional cost for the software to make that work. Oh, she can skip the "unskippable" warnings and trailers at the front of various DVD with her player, too.
Also, it doesn't matter if it's a 2nd or 257th computer, the Mac Mini is inferior. I don't see why one would suddenly decide to buy a computer that does less than it could for the same cost just because one already has a computer.
Additionally, these people usually are not looking for higher performance. By the way, a crashed 3GHz XP PC is slower than even a 300MHz Mac OS/X G3...
So compared to a Dell PC, the mini Mac running BSD Unix based MacOS/X is a better deal.
I know that I will try one JUST because of MacOS/X!!!
G4 RISC chip. You don't know that, most lay-people don't know
that. Ask an engineer. Ask, "what are floating point
instructions", ask "why does that G4 chip run somethings 8
times faster than my chip". Sooner or later, you might actually
begin to understand that the engineers are a little better at
putting together a computer than you are.
In terms of software, there is nothing out there you can buy that can compare favorably to Apple's iLife software and the way it all works together. Show me a suite of PC apps that match iLife and I'll show you a purple monkey.
iTunes alone is better than any other jukebox out there and iDVD has no equal in the consumer space. In fact, iMovie (the new one with HD support) had no equal either.
You also get a nice collection of software that isn't in iLife, like iCal and iSync -- both work very well. iSync works great on multiple devices and the Dot Mac services. You don't get that with that PC.
Second, you have to purchase anti-virus software these days with a PC. There is no way around it if you are connected. It's totally optional on a Mac.
When you factor the real speed based on applications that people use (Photoshop, Acrobat, iTunes, email, etc). you realize that the Mac mini is a complete toss up with most PCs in its price range. It's stupid to talk details with a consumer machine that people are going to do generalized "digital lifestyle" stuff with. It's not about speed anymore anyway.
The fact is the Mac mini offers consumers far superior connectivity to digital devices and provides them best-of-breed apps for video, music, and photos -- and a better surfing experience. All virus free.
Your argument only holds water *if* the target user is aware of Linux and wants to use it, *if* they're willing to hand-pick components (or have someone hand-pick the components for them), and *if* they actually have the support of someone who knows how to manage the OS.
So in other words, in order to save about $110 dollars, you either have to know a lot about technology, or know the right people. That's not really going to set the computing market on fire - and it's probably why "Linux on the desktop" has been stalling out for the past few years.
The Mac mini offers the Not Windows factor, but in a much more universally accessible way - and I'm not talking about the OS, either.
Besides, how many typical Linux boxes can you literally carry home from the store in one hand... or one piece, for that matter?
For many users, the mini mac fits their needs (general office, internet, and some graphics/video manipulation), and unlike Linux, your mother would probably be able to operate the Mac OS without much trouble. If your mother didn't have you to build her machine and help her out, would she be running Linux?
model name : AMD Sempron(tm) 2600+
cpu MHz : 1826.277
cache size : 256 KB
MemTotal: 482864 kB
32MiB of main memory are shared for its garbage UniChrome integrated graphics. Then again, 32MiB of non-integrated graphics memory isn't enough to run anything recent well, and the Mac isn't going to be winning any gaming contests.
The motherboard is based on the appropriate Via chipset.
160 GB 7200 RPM IDE HD
DVD-ROM/CD-RW
That's more memory (480>256), even after sharing with the graphics. The processor is flat-out faster. Yes, I'm aware there are architectural differences. That said, they can do about the same amount of work in a clock cycle on most code. The Sempron gets in 46% more clock cycles per unit time. That means it wins. As a bonus, its FSB is clocked 100% faster.
That's with the parts purchased individually at local retail stores. $50 was spent on the monitor, so we can reduce the price to $380 for comparison to the Mac Mini. After spending ~$35 on the combo optical drive, I came across a 16x DVD+/-RW for $60, so, if I'd been a little smarter, we could throw that in for an extra ~$25 instead of an extra $100.
That doesn't include a license for WinXP, as the computer is running Gentoo GNU/Linux, with every single application and OS component, from kernel to GUI, optimized for the specific processor and in general with -O2 and omitted frame pointers, instead of forced to the i386 common denominator. For the cost of a WinXP license, it could be made to dual boot, but why bother? This way I get security and functionality updates by typing a single command, effectively no virus worries, and complete stability, barring hardware problems. Apple can't even feign the first of those. I can also boot a version of the same OS with all the tools needed to fix any problem from a CD, should I have to do so.
I also get a case big enough to expand in (and with regular-sized, non-ridiculously-expensive drives, too) without having to be pretentious enough to claim a white and silver box with a logo on top and a slot in the front is pretty. Though, of course, some styrofoam/cardboard/cardstock, a knife, and fasteners could mimic the look, if not the size. Yeah, it might be bigger than I'd want to carry around randomly, but it's a desktop; it sits still like the desk. Unless, of course, you attend LAN parties with your 32MiB graphics card Apple.
I beat Apple by $119, and I could install a comparable application to anything Apple bundles for free on a whim with one line of typing (plus one more if I have to find the application's name by function). I say could because my mother, the computer's primary user, couldn't care less about mastering DVD's from video shot with a digital video camera that we, like many (most?) $500-ish computer owners, could never afford, and she doesn't have any interest in composing or performing music, editing photos, or buying digital music with DRM wrappers. (As a sidenote, full single-sided DVD images are 4.5GiB, and very nearly that much in video files is needed to make one. There goes ~25% of 40GiB per master.) If my mom dislikes a feature of her interface (and I mean stuff more substantial than colors, although it applies to themes, as well), she or I can change it a setting or just switch to a completely different GUI. ReiserFS is superior, as well. As yet another bonus, my handicapped mother can use a joystick as her pointing device instead of a mouse with the full, transparent support of all mouse-using applications and no additional cost for the software to make that work. Oh, she can skip the "unskippable" warnings and trailers at the front of various DVD with her player, too.
Also, it doesn't matter if it's a 2nd or 257th computer, the Mac Mini is inferior. I don't see why one would suddenly decide to buy a computer that does less than it could for the same cost just because one already has a computer.
Additionally, these people usually are not looking for higher performance. By the way, a crashed 3GHz XP PC is slower than even a 300MHz Mac OS/X G3...
So compared to a Dell PC, the mini Mac running BSD Unix based MacOS/X is a better deal.
I know that I will try one JUST because of MacOS/X!!!
G4 RISC chip. You don't know that, most lay-people don't know
that. Ask an engineer. Ask, "what are floating point
instructions", ask "why does that G4 chip run somethings 8
times faster than my chip". Sooner or later, you might actually
begin to understand that the engineers are a little better at
putting together a computer than you are.
In terms of software, there is nothing out there you can buy that can compare favorably to Apple's iLife software and the way it all works together. Show me a suite of PC apps that match iLife and I'll show you a purple monkey.
iTunes alone is better than any other jukebox out there and iDVD has no equal in the consumer space. In fact, iMovie (the new one with HD support) had no equal either.
You also get a nice collection of software that isn't in iLife, like iCal and iSync -- both work very well. iSync works great on multiple devices and the Dot Mac services. You don't get that with that PC.
Second, you have to purchase anti-virus software these days with a PC. There is no way around it if you are connected. It's totally optional on a Mac.
When you factor the real speed based on applications that people use (Photoshop, Acrobat, iTunes, email, etc). you realize that the Mac mini is a complete toss up with most PCs in its price range. It's stupid to talk details with a consumer machine that people are going to do generalized "digital lifestyle" stuff with. It's not about speed anymore anyway.
The fact is the Mac mini offers consumers far superior connectivity to digital devices and provides them best-of-breed apps for video, music, and photos -- and a better surfing experience. All virus free.
Your argument only holds water *if* the target user is aware of Linux and wants to use it, *if* they're willing to hand-pick components (or have someone hand-pick the components for them), and *if* they actually have the support of someone who knows how to manage the OS.
So in other words, in order to save about $110 dollars, you either have to know a lot about technology, or know the right people. That's not really going to set the computing market on fire - and it's probably why "Linux on the desktop" has been stalling out for the past few years.
The Mac mini offers the Not Windows factor, but in a much more universally accessible way - and I'm not talking about the OS, either.
Besides, how many typical Linux boxes can you literally carry home from the store in one hand... or one piece, for that matter?
For many users, the mini mac fits their needs (general office, internet, and some graphics/video manipulation), and unlike Linux, your mother would probably be able to operate the Mac OS without much trouble. If your mother didn't have you to build her machine and help her out, would she be running Linux?
1) Adequate tech specs to run almost anything and more. It has
more computing power than my Powerbook G4 which is more
than enough for most things.
2) Great connectivity both wired and wireless. USB 2.0, Firewire,
Ethernet, DVI, VGA right out of the box. WiFi and Bluetooth for
some additional $$$.
3) The ability to connect to HD/TV or regular TV sets with a
really cheap adapter transforms this device into a "portable"
DVD+slideshow player, so take 100 bucks off the price only for
that (or try to do the same with a PC tower).
4) Compatibility: the open source community is doing great in
porting things to mac OS X, and the amount of freeware
available to do stuff like video encoding/decoding, audio
recording, scientific applications and so keeps growing strongly
as the platform validates itself in time.
5) SOFTWARE: simply unbeatable OS. With Tiger coming soon
there's no way Windows can match all the capabilities of OSX any
time soon. As for iLife '05: no body payed much attention to the
upgrades made to the iLife suite, but to me they look
impressive, making this group of programs close to perfect for
the average consumer/creator of digital content
6) Portability. Although I'm not so sure about this one. If it was
truly portable this would have been emphasized during Jobs'
keynote. My only concern is about how firm and/or cushioned
are the hard drive and other components assembled.
7) Enhanced iPod/iTunes experience. The Windows versions
work quite well but there's nothing like the integration you can
see in the Mac.
8) Versatility. I've checked several internet forums and it's
amazing to see all the different uses people is coming up with
for a Mac mini. If the product can meet at least 70% of the
expectations it's going to be a big hit.
Now some reasons not to buy a mac mini:
1) You hate everything coming from Apple. And that's one of
your inalienable rights! Don't let us take that away from you and
stick with your Windows PC. Peace.
2) You don't have a display, keyboard and mouse to spare, and
can't afford to buy them just for the mini.
3) Video RAM not enough for SOME high-end 3D games. I'm not
into gaming but if you're a serious 3D shooter try first if your
favorite game works smoothly enough not to drive you crazy.
You might be in for a surprise though.
4) No audio-in. Although It's possible to get cheap USB mics or
more expensive USB or Firewire audio interfaces for Garage
Band. As for video conferencing the webcam from Apple, iSight,
comes with an internal mic. But then again adding extra cash to
the original price.
5) Limited expandability. If you want to add more RAM you
better take it to an Apple service provider or order it with
additional RAM (ridiculously expensive from Apple as usual).
Similarly if you want WiFi capabilities you better order it with an
Airport Extreme card installed since the same applies to other
upgrades.
6) You're in the wrong market. This is targeted to home
computing, something that some people forget. So if you're
looking for equipment for a Pro setting you better look
somewhere else (check the G5s or 64-bit AMDs). And be ready
to pay for it.
7) You want to wait for a second breed of the mini or for the
comments and reviews from early adopters to see if it matches
the expectations that are raising since the announcement at
MWSF.
All in all I think Apple got it right this time. This is a perfect bait
for people who wouldn't dare to try a Mac because of the
(arguable) high price tag. If they take the opportunity and are
properly guided to explore all the things they can do with this
Mac I'm sure a lot of them will continue using and enjoying the
"newly discovered" platform. If the Mac mini sells well I can see
Apple creating and expanding around the same concept, like
with the iPod. Then the days for a fully equipped Apple "Media
Center" (obviously with a different name) are not too far.
1) Adequate tech specs to run almost anything and more. It has
more computing power than my Powerbook G4 which is more
than enough for most things.
2) Great connectivity both wired and wireless. USB 2.0, Firewire,
Ethernet, DVI, VGA right out of the box. WiFi and Bluetooth for
some additional $$$.
3) The ability to connect to HD/TV or regular TV sets with a
really cheap adapter transforms this device into a "portable"
DVD+slideshow player, so take 100 bucks off the price only for
that (or try to do the same with a PC tower).
4) Compatibility: the open source community is doing great in
porting things to mac OS X, and the amount of freeware
available to do stuff like video encoding/decoding, audio
recording, scientific applications and so keeps growing strongly
as the platform validates itself in time.
5) SOFTWARE: simply unbeatable OS. With Tiger coming soon
there's no way Windows can match all the capabilities of OSX any
time soon. As for iLife '05: no body payed much attention to the
upgrades made to the iLife suite, but to me they look
impressive, making this group of programs close to perfect for
the average consumer/creator of digital content
6) Portability. Although I'm not so sure about this one. If it was
truly portable this would have been emphasized during Jobs'
keynote. My only concern is about how firm and/or cushioned
are the hard drive and other components assembled.
7) Enhanced iPod/iTunes experience. The Windows versions
work quite well but there's nothing like the integration you can
see in the Mac.
8) Versatility. I've checked several internet forums and it's
amazing to see all the different uses people is coming up with
for a Mac mini. If the product can meet at least 70% of the
expectations it's going to be a big hit.
Now some reasons not to buy a mac mini:
1) You hate everything coming from Apple. And that's one of
your inalienable rights! Don't let us take that away from you and
stick with your Windows PC. Peace.
2) You don't have a display, keyboard and mouse to spare, and
can't afford to buy them just for the mini.
3) Video RAM not enough for SOME high-end 3D games. I'm not
into gaming but if you're a serious 3D shooter try first if your
favorite game works smoothly enough not to drive you crazy.
You might be in for a surprise though.
4) No audio-in. Although It's possible to get cheap USB mics or
more expensive USB or Firewire audio interfaces for Garage
Band. As for video conferencing the webcam from Apple, iSight,
comes with an internal mic. But then again adding extra cash to
the original price.
5) Limited expandability. If you want to add more RAM you
better take it to an Apple service provider or order it with
additional RAM (ridiculously expensive from Apple as usual).
Similarly if you want WiFi capabilities you better order it with an
Airport Extreme card installed since the same applies to other
upgrades.
6) You're in the wrong market. This is targeted to home
computing, something that some people forget. So if you're
looking for equipment for a Pro setting you better look
somewhere else (check the G5s or 64-bit AMDs). And be ready
to pay for it.
7) You want to wait for a second breed of the mini or for the
comments and reviews from early adopters to see if it matches
the expectations that are raising since the announcement at
MWSF.
All in all I think Apple got it right this time. This is a perfect bait
for people who wouldn't dare to try a Mac because of the
(arguable) high price tag. If they take the opportunity and are
properly guided to explore all the things they can do with this
Mac I'm sure a lot of them will continue using and enjoying the
"newly discovered" platform. If the Mac mini sells well I can see
Apple creating and expanding around the same concept, like
with the iPod. Then the days for a fully equipped Apple "Media
Center" (obviously with a different name) are not too far.
"well, to add the stuff you'd want it was 1300." What on earth
did they add that was 700? memory and harddrive upgrades,
shouldn't be nearly that much, adding a dvd burner is only 100.
Where did this number come from, 'journalist'?
"well, to add the stuff you'd want it was 1300." What on earth
did they add that was 700? memory and harddrive upgrades,
shouldn't be nearly that much, adding a dvd burner is only 100.
Where did this number come from, 'journalist'?
With the Mac, you will have a more reliable system, with hardware MADE for the O/S, not an O/S made by one company and a PC made by another. The hardware works well with the O/S and the Apple programs are easy to use since they share functionality and keyboard shortcuts with each other. Plus Apple is known for its reliablity. Just read Consumer Reports and you will see they are tops.
That being said, there are still applications that only run on Windows. So, have your old Windows clunker sitting around for those few and get a real PC (APPLE) if you're sick of supporting your own PC and actually want to get some work done.
With the Mac, you will have a more reliable system, with hardware MADE for the O/S, not an O/S made by one company and a PC made by another. The hardware works well with the O/S and the Apple programs are easy to use since they share functionality and keyboard shortcuts with each other. Plus Apple is known for its reliablity. Just read Consumer Reports and you will see they are tops.
That being said, there are still applications that only run on Windows. So, have your old Windows clunker sitting around for those few and get a real PC (APPLE) if you're sick of supporting your own PC and actually want to get some work done.