Manage updates with the Download AppApril 4, 2007 10:15 AM PDT
Microsoft sued over Vista branding
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A lawsuit, filed in Seattle, alleges that the company advertised systems as "Vista capable," when in fact the systems were not able to run Vista properly. The suit alleges that the marketing around Vista was designed to deliberately mislead potential customers.
The outcome hangs on the precise definition of the circumstances under which a machine is "Vista capable."
Microsoft has allowed PC vendors to put stickers on their systems saying that they are "Vista ready," when the system could run only Vista Home Basic, which does not allow many of the core features of Vista to run. The suit maintains that it was unreasonable of Microsoft to assume that every person to whom it was marketing Vista could understand the system requirements.
PCs need at least 512MB of RAM, a processor capable of operating at 800MHz or faster and a graphics processor that is DirectX 9-capable to be classified as "Vista capable." However, the suit alleges that it was not clear from Microsoft's advertising and marketing around Vista that while a system may be advertised as "capable," it may be incapable of running many of the advertised features of Vista, such as the Aero desktop.
According to the legal action, which was filed as a class action suit on Thursday, "consumers were falsely led to believe they would be upgraded to a dramatically new operating system bearing the key features marketed by Microsoft." In particular, the court action highlights Microsoft's "Express Upgrade" plan, which upgraded users from Windows XP to Vista Basic. This was an upgrade to Vista "in name only," the suit alleged, and "not the functionality."
Microsoft said it had made extensive efforts to inform buyers about the hardware resources needed to run Vista.
"We conducted a broad effort to educate computer manufacturers, retailers and consumers about the hardware requirements to run different versions of Windows Vista," the company said in a statement. "This well-documented effort occurred as part of the Windows Vista Capable program. We look forward to presenting this information to the court and addressing all other issues raised in this lawsuit."
Details of the lawsuit were reported Tuesday by The Seattle Post-Intelligencer.
Colin Barker of ZDNet UK reported from London.
See more CNET content tagged:
suit, Microsoft Windows Vista, lawsuit, class action, Microsoft Corp.
155 comments
Join the conversation! Add your comment
Happy?
Since we're asking for useless posts, let's add as many as we can,
shall we?
from a graphics-printing background and have maybe spent a
total of 20 minutes with MS installed PC's in all that time. All the
computers I have personally owned or bought for others, 15 or
more, I've lost count, have been Macs. That said I do hope that
Vista succeeds. I don't care what others use, I made my choices
a long time ago and am happy with them. To the extent that
Vistas succeeds, and it will because the M$ die is cast and PC
users will have limited choices going forward, Apple will also
succeed because M$ will keep Apples feet to the fire and make
sure we Mac users continue to get an excellent product. So from
my view point hooray for Vista because OSX 10.5 will have to be
even better.
/P
Or you can upgrade your old Mac, but then all your (photo editing) software will stop working.
But, it makes you "hip". And you'll be able to edit lots of photos for your mom and aunt.
Gees, why would you want to buy a computer if you don't know what you are buying? The advanced stuff in Vista is really for advanced users....
I suggest these morons should go to a Mac shop and get a "computer" that they can presumably understand...duh, atleast they can turn it on and login (maybe)...and look at the screen until it blanks out....
In the best outcome for them all the "victims" in the class will get $10 voucher off of MS Windows or Office. The lawyers handling this will get $500,000 for "fees and expenses." That's if the class doesn't loose right away, since this is such a stupid claim. I think the class action against NVidia made much more sense, and they still lost right away.
This is just another example of people trying to extort money because they are too stuipid or cheap to buy a higher-end system.
Additionally you cannot sue Microsoft because they are not the ones marketing computers. This is just more cannon fodder for the Microsoft Legal team. You wonder why these operating systems are so expensive... now you know.
I remember when MSFT started the deisgned for "Windows 95" label program. To qualify for this, all you needed was a 386 with 4 MB of RAM. Running Windows 95 on that would have been PAINFUL.
It is so hard to know what you'll need before something is on the market. If you're able to wait you're better off, if not you sometimes get stuck. Unfortunately it seems that is what happened in your case.
Its like all those "Flex-Fuel" cars that are being sold... E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline mix) compatable, yet across the nation there are LESS THAN ONE THOUSAND places to fill them, of nearly 200,000 stations. Sue all the car makers next why don't you?
The "full functionality" requires a good deal of new technology. Glass can't be shown the way it is without shader model 2.0, so you have to have it unless you want an entire window semi-transparent. It requires that much video ram to run properly. End of story,
I hope the law suit backfires on the suer. Microsoft did right. Unless something is missing from the story.
action, unless failing to do your homework or read the fine print
somehow qualifies me for some group identity which can't be
discriminated against.
Not so! Stupidity crosses all ethnic & religious boundaries.
Whatever you may think of Microsoft's products, services or
advertising, you cannot expect them to protect consumers from
their own poor decisions.
I mean, who can seriously depend on some sales associate at the electronics store to be totally up front; especially if they are getting paid commision? Heck, the sales associate would probably lose his/her job for not "pushing" the product on the consumer hard enough!
I was a sales associate ONCE, for a now out of business electronics/appliance chain, and I HATED it! They literally want you to FORCE the consumer into purchasing something they may or may not need/want! That is a bunch of BS!
If the "average consumer" does not take the time to seek the information or at least consult with a professional, then they get what they deserve!
That type of ignorance is in the same ball park with people who purchase a vehicle that is sold As Is and then try to get money back, or sue the dealer, because the car broke in half the next day!
LoL!
Ohhhh, America, America! The Land of the Frivolous! (Yes, I am American).
Some people just "need" to have "someone" or "something" to blame for every little thing that happens or goes wrong.
In short, the world, as we know it, will not reach perfection until the Human Race is extinct.
A morbid conclusion, but logical.
End.
The only way I learned of Vista's problems is by reading the CNET Articles. Though I have no plans to "upgrade" any time soon. There is not enough new Technology to warrant it. Also just to get a real upgrade you have to go to the "Super Duper" version of Vista, and spend double the money you really need to. IT'S TIME WE ALL UPGRADE TO LINUX!!!!!!!!
If an MS engineer can't deal with those problems in Windows, why would you expect that a high-school programmer would?
Did they even bother to use the Vista Upgrade advisor before doing this. Oh yeah, they do also have a website to tell you about all of the different versions of Vista and the features that they will allow.
This lawsuit comes as a result of not making use of information and tools made available before making a big decison. And how long were these available BEFORE Vista came out? These were also available during the beta testing too.
It appears that the suit is because the person did "[make] use of information and tools made available before making a big decison." His information was the sticker that said "Vista Capable."
buttons" links to choose from: See; Learn; Choose; Buy. None of
these say anything about an Upgrade Advisor.
I had to click on each link and it wasn't until I clicked on the
"Buy" link that I found the Advisor.
Who would click on BUY to just get advice?? As always, Microsoft
has created one of the least intuative websites (much like their
products) ever!
And since the consumer was buying a NEW computer, how were
they supposed to get to the website? Their only information
would have come from the store sales people, and since you
can't expect a low wage sales person to somehow magically
know every single product to the degree that you apparently
need in order to understand the convoluded Vista marketing
strategy, who else could be responsible? When a product is
advertised as "capable" yet is found to be "incapable", you
should expect a lawsuit. The responsibility is Mcrosofts, not the
store, and most definitely not the consumer!
There was an "upgrade advisor" out long before there was Vista's launch, and Microsoft has notoriously understated its system requirements, so... ***?
Before the MSFT fanbois start yammering, notice how the minimim requirements of most makers --as stated-- are just enough to run the OS, not the OS + apps.
IMHO, if anybody deserves to get put in the docket, it's likely the schmucks at (insert big-box retailer here), for glossing over the details more often than not, and the OEM's for slapping "Vista Ready" and "Vista Capable" stickers all over their stock in an attempt to push boxes out the door during Christmas season.
I mean, cripes... as an example: even the latest Linux kernel versions can run itself and perhaps a few apps on an old 486 DX-66 w/ 24MB of RAM, but I certainly wouldn't claim that it was actually useful for Joe Sixpack at those h/w specs, any more than I would recommend OSX 10.4 for a G4/500 w/ 64MB of RAM (even though IIRC those are roughly the min. req's for OSX).
/P
Games- well, it's kinda fun to read the minimum specs on any game today. Sure, it will run with *this* level of hardware, but in order to use the game with all the bells and whistles turned on and be actually playable, you'll need to upgrade to *THAT* level of hardware.
For anyone who asks me about memory requirements for Vista on a laptop, I tell them that technically it only needs 512Mb. To make Vista happy, you really want at least 1Gb. To make YOU happy, get 2Gb.
Wow. I actually agree with Penguinisto. What's the world coming to?
Unfortunately it's also one of the reasons it won't be taken seriously in the business world because again, there's no one party that can be responsible for it either. :/
For good or bad, you take your chances with it.
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.kernel.org" target="_newWindow">http://www.kernel.org</a>
Or, you can get entire distros for free, right here:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://fedora.redhat.com" target="_newWindow">http://fedora.redhat.com</a>
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://opensuse.org" target="_newWindow">http://opensuse.org</a>
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.ubuntu.com" target="_newWindow">http://www.ubuntu.com</a>
So, umm... you were saying?
/P
Linux & unix aren't really viable commercial alternatives to Windows or Mac for the average computer user. I only reboot my 4 different XP SP2 computers when i do (un)installs or when they've been up for many days & just feel like rebooting. So my experience with XP is good- that doesn't make me a fool.
Like, for example, coming across the Program folder and actually DELETING stuff from it instead of using the UNINSTALLER for the program!
LoL!
OR installing poorly designed/programmed software from some person/company that no one has ever heard of!
OR just simply failing to ACTUALLY READ the instructions! Etc...Etc...Etc...
When will the MaDnEsS end!? Hopefully not soon, because there is a lot of money to be made off of the "average" computer user!
:-)
End.
Pentium II computer with "Made for Windows 95" sticker on the front: $75
Windows Vista Ultimate purchased off of Ebay: $999 with FREE shipping!
The look on your face when the sh*t doesn't work: PRICELESS!
:-)
There's even a hint of a CNET video that consisted of a high end machine not being able to run/have BitLocker, something that should naturally free-run rather than be restricted.
I do not have personal experience with Vista on many different machines, but it seems that the version you buy gives you the options, but if you get to use those option depends on the hardware. It's like buying a 400-hp car. Sure it can do 200 mph, but if the speed limit is on 55, then the 200 mph really doesn't matter.
The Vista package you get is the raw horsepower and the hardware is your speed limit. If you have a slow system, then no matter what car/Vista you get, you can only go so fast/get certain feature to turn on. Many consumers don't see/understand/know about those differences.
Maybe the ads should show "Vista" blocking spyware, and then show a "+ fast graphics card = Aero", and also a "+ high speed flash drive = fast start up time."
Win2K was based off of NT, but XP actually came from the consumer code base (95,98,Me), because the more server centric architecture of NT make consumer applications compatibility very difficult. To this day, there are many applications that skipped Win2K and moved straight to XP.
You just like sticking your foot in your mouth, don't you? LoL!
For one thing, Win2003 is SERVER software. The AVERAGE home user is not going to be running Win2003 unless they have absolutely no idea what they are doing or got a really bad deal on EBay. I guess what I am trying to say is this: Why the heck you talkin' about Windows Server 2003 in a forum that has nothing to do with servers? Oh, I can answer that question! It is just another one of your pitiful attempts to make a point that has no point.
The article in question here is MS being sued, because people are not taking the time to do their homework. Actually, it is nothing more than a bunch of twisted lawyers trying to wring a quick buck out of Daddy Gates' wallet. Gates could shut these morons up with HALF of his fortune and STILL have enough left over to BURN. Heck, he would have more money left over than most people would ever make in 1,000 life times!
Also, when someone purchases a NEW computer it comes with ALL the software that computer needs to make it "work". If someone wants to upgrade by adding extra peripherals and devices then that is their own personal problem. You don't need an iPod attached to your computer to make it work.
Why does it even matter how many drivers need to be installed? Everyone knows that Windows will need a driver for a particular device sooner or later. Everyone knows that the GENERIC drivers that are included in WinXp's driver database are not going to give that device the exact same functionality as a driver from the actual OEM. Oh, wait, the AVERAGE user probably isn't going to know that or take the time to seek out the information. That is the difference between people who understand technology and those who don't. People like us (and I am in no way implying that we are anything alike) will take the time to seek information so we won't end up toasting our systems, but the average computer user will try to do something like burn a DVD-Rom in a CD-Rom and then wonder why it doesn't work.
In any event, you have once again failed to contribute anything useful to the Technology community at large. Your world must be very, very small indeed; especially if every argument you make is Linux based. We are TALKING about WINDOWS here, not Linux. Linux makes a good server, but that's about it (I couldn?t resist).
Now go play with yourself, my little penguin mascot.
:-)
End.
/P
The only thing, though, is that marketing doesn't work that way. Take car commercials, for instance. They CLAIM you can get 0% APR, but what they don't SAY is that you must have spotless credit. Instead they put it in words so dang small, at the bottom of your television screen, that you need a Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass to even read it; or they say it so fast that you need slo-mo hearing to understand what the announcer is saying.
Another example is toy commercials. I believe it was in the 90's when there was a big thing about people ACTUALLY thinking that a GI Joe action figure could walk, talk and shoot fake little missles out of fake little missle launchers. Now how IGNORANT is that? I believe lawyers tried to sue toy companies back then, too, over "false advertising". I may have it a little mixed up, but this actually did happen! I once dated a girl whose mother thought that images could ACTUALLY project out of a CRT monitor (in 3D) like in the advertisements for some 3D graphics cards! How crazy is that!? LoL! Oh, man! I got a good laugh out of that one when it was told to me!
There is rarely any "truth" to advertising. Companies will do what they can to get their hands on your hard earned money and usually offer very little in return; except for a product that will cost even more money to repair when it eventually breaks down; but, hey, that's what they $1,500 extended warranty is for, right?
I believe that it is ultimately up to the consumer where they choose to spend their money. No one likes to get or feel ripped off, but when a person doesn't research a product that is usually what ends up happening. How hard is it to pick up a copy of Consumer Reports and find out if a product is worth spending hard earned money on? I don't feel sorry for people who don't do their homework. However, I do feel it is wrong if a company or person INTENTIONALLY and BLATANTLY misleads consumers into thinking and/or believing that a product is the Next Best Thing when all they are really selling is a ton of junk. In my opinion, Microsoft is not guilty of misleading consumers. If a computer can boot Vista all the way to the desktop without it crashing, then that computer is "Vista Capable". It might crash 5 minutes later, but oh well!
I don't know where everyone else is from, but I live in America. America is capitalistic. Rich people want to go on getting richer, not go in the opposite direction. Companies depend on the ignorance of the average person to continue filling their piggy banks day after day and year after year.
If people really wanted to make an impact then they would simply boycott Big Business and hit them where it hurts. Then again, the average American just HAS to have that new iPod mini, or nano, or whatever it is called, so that is not going to happen any time soon.
End.