Poll: Is the EU decision against Intel fair?
Updated at 12:45 p.m. PDT: adding AMD statement.
The question of whether Intel engages in abusive market behavior has been answered by the European Commission. Or has it?
CNET News Poll
To recap, the EC said:
"Intel limited consumer choice and stifled innovation by preventing innovative products for which there was a consumer demand from reaching end customers."
And: "Intel gave wholly or partially hidden rebates to computer manufacturers on condition that they bought all, or almost all, their x86 central processing units (CPUs) from Intel. Intel also made direct payments to a major retailer on condition it stock only computers with Intel x86 CPUs. Second, Intel made direct payments to computer manufacturers to halt or delay the launch of specific products containing a competitor's x86 CPUs and to limit the sales channels available to these products."
Advanced Micro Devices enthusiastically joins the EC decision, which may "open the floodgates" for civil suits, according to reports. (The fine is paid to the European Commission, not the company that allegedly suffered the damage.)
Though AMD has made it clear that "focusing on the current market dynamics misses the fundamental point of the EC findings" (the period in question for the EU decision is October 2002 through December 2007 and covers servers, desktops, and mobile), looking at current competitive dynamics between Intel and AMD does serve to show that there may be other factors in play.
Intel, for instance, usually takes between 85 percent and 90 percent of the total mobile market share, (though AMD did gain some ground in the first quarter of this year, according to IDC) and Intel virtually owns the newest mobile segment--Netbooks, where AMD is not even a player, by its own choice.
Intel mobile processors usually best AMD mobile processors in benchmarks and power efficiency, and this is validated by Intel's standing at first-tier PC suppliers, where AMD is conspicuously absent or barely present in many mobile lineups.
So, are AMD processors absent or underrepresented because of Intel's alleged big stick, or for other reasons? Apple uses no AMD processors. But Apple prides itself on calling the shots--and is certainly Intel's equal in market power. (No Intel stickers and no Intel market development funds for Apple). And it's safe to say that brass-knuckles negotiating is certainly not a tactic exclusive to Intel. (Remember, Apple dumped Intel graphics silicon in favor of Nvidia in the newest MacBooks).
And other first-tier PC makers like Sony and Dell offer (or have offered) only a few AMD-based laptops. Is this because Intel is a bully or does it have more to do with AMD's competitive standing?
Best Buy statistics underscore this lopsidedness. The largest retailer in the U.S. currently lists on its Web site 81 Intel-based mobile SKUs (models) and only 13 models that use AMD processors.
Finally, remember that we're not including graphics chips from AMD's ATI unit. These chips compete for desktop and laptop circuit board real estate with Nvidia and Intel's integrated graphics silicon.
Brooke Crothers has served as an editor at large at CNET News, an editor at Dow Jones' Asian Wall Street Journal Weekly, and a senior editor at InfoWorld. His CNET blog covers chip technology and computer systems, and how they define the computing experience. He also contributes to The New York Times' Bits and Technology sections. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure. Follow Brooke on Twitter @mbrookec. 
Imagine had AMD been given fair competition.
at the time when amd had the performance lead, OEMs were looking to get a package deal which was cheaper for them (processor and graphics chips....integrated.) AMD had no way of answering that so the majority used Intel. AMD knew what kept them back that is why they spent billions buying ATI. its not that they didnt' get a fair chance, is that they had nothing to compete in the space intel dominated in.
at the time when amd had the performance lead, OEMs were looking to get a package deal which was cheaper for them (processor and graphics chips....integrated.) AMD had no way of answering that so the majority used Intel. AMD knew what kept them back that is why they spent billions buying ATI. its not that they didnt' get a fair chance, is that they had nothing to compete in the space intel dominated in."
OEM's also in using that package deal managed to cause the "Compatible for Vista" mess that cost them more money in the long run by using Intel's sub-par integrated graphics chip... AMD's integrated chips are at least 5x faster than the intel brand now, however that is after the purchase of ATI (thank god... saved the brand in my opinion)
But the thing is OEM's have to do ANYTHING to make any kind of profit on a PC. They make NOTHING on a New PC - why do you think they are loaded up with a trial of norton? Rhapsody? WildTangent? These companies pay for the advertising to be pre-installed on the system, and that manages to at least make the computer profitable... and when a company like intel offers any kind of rebate those OEMs will DIVE on it and accept any terms without hesitation... "You want us to buy only intel? Okay fine, it's the same price to us, but you're giving incentive."
I agree totally- they have 1 goal...but you're a little confused about what that goal actually is. Their only goal is to make money. That happen to mean that they strive to provide competitive products, but seriously you are the ignorant one if you thing m$oft is concerned about you.
The customer (and taxpayer) always pays, it is an organic pattern everything else lives off the lowest in the food chain. Kill off the plankton (like they did in the US) and how does the economic system work then? And they are doing exactly the same thing with the food system and then think that there will not be famine. Wake up!!!
I will tell you where the EC in the EU get their revenues from, by suing large US companies for billions of dollars under the pretence of "unfair business practices". I am still dumbfounded over the fact that MSFT got sued over having the media player included in the OS. WFT! which operating system is released without a damn built in media player? I'll tell which....windows N. now MSFT is on trial about having the browser included....I feel like they're going to find them "guilty" again and put some billions of dollars of fine on them. I beleive this because they have already set the presidence with suing them over media player, now because of that they can sue them over the built in calculator in they wanted to.
I'm tell you MSFT should release a OS called Windows Nothing, with nothing but the bare of the bare OS inlcuded, so if they want to sue them again MSFT can say, "look the cunsumers in the EU has a choice, here is windows Nothing, it has no browser or even the browser engine so the consumer can download which ever browser they want...."
I really seriously want them to release a Windows "Nothing" as you call it, i would actually buy it.
I hate more than 70% of the crap that comes with Windows most of the time, and removing it bugs the hell out of me.
All i ask is a bare OS with a simple application that links to a file that lets you wget / ftp / other installers for applications. (it could also sync with MS site if there are anything they want to add into it with time, or it could just come with Windows Updates)
A package manager is what Windows really sorely needs. The Add And Remove Programs applet is terrible, really really terrible.
My respect for Microsoft would shoot up greatly if they done something like this.
There is actually a market for bare bones OSes.
Hmmm... so...
EU = Salem Witch Trial of 2000's. SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT!
No, it just comes do to one thing....money. More importantly, since the start of the EU, the plan was to become the "new USA". If you can't compete, slam, bankrupt and destroy anyone who doesn't play ball. Maybe the US companies should just pull out...then what? The Chinese will fill it. Then they'll know what ****** really is!
Screw em.
(and this is coming from an Italian!)
No, it just comes do to one thing....money. More importantly, since the start of the EU, the plan was to become the "new USA". If you can't compete, slam, bankrupt and destroy anyone who doesn't play ball. Maybe the US companies should just pull out...then what? The Chinese will fill it. Then they'll know what ****** really is!
Screw em.
(and this is coming from an Italian!)
Oh yeah BTW... this is in a group of countries who don't believe in Intellectual Property rights (IT). Funny, because as long as it's not their hard billions used thinking and coming up with the items...og and taking the risk bringing something to market, they think everyone should have a piece. Please!!
ARRRGGHHHH
If you'd bothered to actually read the statement before drawing any conclusions you'd know this.
<i>Ms Kroes joked in her own news conference that Intel would now have to change its latest advertising slogan from "sponsors of tomorrow" to "the sponsor of the European taxpayer". </i>
That "joke" just doesn't seem appropriate.
Think about it.
You just keep trying to prove that negative why don't you?
"If you'd bothered to actually read the statement before drawing any conclusions you'd know this."
and ...
"apparently all you monkeys can do is make cheap personal attacks which just goes to further prove that all you're capable of is blowing smoke."
Your comments indicate you fired the first salvo, and then tried to rewrite history, pretending that you didn't start it.
People are free to read your comments and make what they will of them. It's pretty clear to me what your intent was.
Also, its not a matter of the EC wanting to get money and so being biased. The European Commission is like any other government. The court is a third party that decides between the state and the other party. The court doesn't get any money out of it.
Suppose we'll just pay some more farmers not to grow crops instead.
Unfortunately, The United States is moving at lightning speed in this same direction.
William, your comment is ironic. The EU is protecting the free market. By letting Intel use its market-size to stifle competition, Intel is destroying the free market.
A free market means that I can buy the product I like best from the company I like, not the product that is forced on me by the biggest company.
At the same time some things are just being taken way out of hand. If you can't produce something that is better then the free item you get then your product deserves to die. I currently use two media players on my computer, VLC cause of the formats it supports and windows media player, because it works, and I am very familiar with it.
Like he said we are quickly following in Europes foottails of giving to those that wish to just sit on there ass and not work, not sure if Europe really is like that, but I see us giving to a failed welfare system way to much and as a huge downfall of our country. Sad thing is the ones that are the most obese are the ones living on welfare, cause they dont do anything all day!
crAPPLE is another scum bag company as well with their BS Mac vs Microsoft commercials that NEVER mention the myriad bugs and flaws in Macs and OS X over the last 15 + years! ALL of that is well documented on the web.
Yes, you are so right. Apple should be honest like MicroSoft and make commercials listing all of the defects in their products. Have you ever considered a career in advertising? I'm sure a person with your intelligence and perception would be a great success.
I'm having strippers over for my b-day party this weekend. You're invited.
And 3tire, too.
You're introducing a separate argument which ignores that the injured parties in this case are considered to be the EU citizens and the penalty is that Intel shall be paying some of our taxes for us. Whether AMD are due any damages is an issue AMD are pursuing separately.
Or is "fair" manipulation of the market in other ways, to gain market share and profit advantage over others who are producing a similar product at a similar or better price? That may be your definition of "fair", my definition from the dictionary is "stealing", you know the same kind of "stealing" as the corrupt bastards on Wall Street and the banksters. But yea if that is your definition of "fair" then bend over some more for you deserve what you get.
The companies that had the dispite (AMD/Intel) and the companies not named (but one clearly being DELL... would wager all of those were US companies anyway, or at the least few UK based) were not in the UK. Where the money go? To the EU.
This was a prosecution on behalf of the citizens of the EU, not on behalf of AMD. Who do you think is going to get the damages?
2) http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=i4m&q=us+subsidies+dumping&btnG=Search&meta=
While I'm here, this isn't Twitter; form a proper bloody sentence.
Thanks. By far the best post here.
Instead of pointing people to generic search terms, how about posting a link directly to the evidence? It might help your argument a bit. Right now you're just telling people to go look it up on Google.
Your Google link also indicates you're in England and using Firefox.
Yes, that means that in this case the injured party is considered to be the people of the EU and the fine is going directly to the people of the EU in the form of a tax reduction.
AMD has recourse through civil action against Intel, which will be a slam dunk if the EU ruling stands. Now contrast this outcome to the US Government and the MS fiasco, electorate bend over, bend over, bend over!!!
No where was the european ppl hurt by this practice from intel, only amd cause they couldn't afford to price gouge as much as intel??? sounds like you guys got a better deal thanks to it maybe europe should pay intel instead for helping them out?
By the way, the majority of the US gets its fuel by companies located in Europe. We do not have any domestic producers that can compete with these off shore companies and those European companies dictate what the prices will be, supplies are controlled, and they also prevent competition by locking out independant dealers, forcing them to buy from the big oil companies.... located in Europe.
By your own very example, the US should fine the oil companies *trillions* in damages, and either give that to the US treasury or to the citizens of the United States.
There is no way you can justify your argument unless the oil companies also come clean, so to speak. Will you now defend or villify the oil companies for doing the exact same thing? Your answer should be very enlightening.
It's at least good to see that the EU antitrust laws have teeth in them AND that the EU economy is sufficiently large, to make it matter to global corporations. Such actions will hopefully make current and future corporations think twice, before crossing the line.
"Mission Accomplished"! And, it is now time to start the celebrations with "French Wines...."!
So, which is the next American-based company that is about to be raided/pilfered by the European Community.
God Bless America and The Americas!
Let's face it - If God had wished for companies like Microsoft, Intel, Google, Apple, Amazon, Boeing..... ; and, an agency such as NASA to all be in the European Union; then, they would have been there; also, if God had wished for the dictatorial policies of folks like Adolph Hitler, Saddam Houssein to prevail them those principles would have been prevailing over people in parts of the world today.
So, with President Obama (being the First African President to be elected President of the United States of America) it is time for American-based companies such as Intel, Microsoft, Google, Apple..... to focus on moving their development dollars out of the European Community and move them into the regions of Africa and the Americas.
"Mission Accomplished" - Again!
So, since when is the EU the world's Over Lords!!!!
Guess that Federation Star Fleet will have to take copious notes in case sometime in the future heavy EU Tolls will be levied on those "Intel" Space Vehicles (on their way to fill up for oxygen) and wish to traverse a path less filled with "debris"!
- by Commander_Spock May 17, 2009 11:17 AM PDT
- We have the "H1N1" in those poor Mexican-like neighbor-hoods in the Americas to think about in terms of spending those Intel $$$...... So, let the Trade War between the European Community and The Americas begin!
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