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January 1, 2009 12:28 PM PST

New Year's hangover for Zune users

by Jonathan Skillings
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A leap-year issue with Microsoft's Zune music player is still leaving many users cold, despite the company's reassurance that all would be well by sometime on New Year's Day.

Postings on Zune message boards Thursday morning, as people tried out Microsoft's recommendations and fellow Zune users' suggestions, ranged from the hopeful...

"The wipe process should only take a minute or two. If it is hanging on this screen, disconnect it from power, let the battery drain, and then reconnect it to start the device again," user Raw Deluxe wrote on Zune Forums.

Zune image

...to the melancholy:

"Mine never made it back. The battery drained ok, but it tried to start one time and is now good and dead. I talked to support and they agreed - its a brick," wrote brotherdiesel.

Scores of Zune users on Wednesday -- the last day of a 366-day leap year -- reported that their 30GB Zune devices were freezing up. Complaints rippled across message boards as people booted up the gadgets and found they could not get to their songs or pictures.

By the middle of the day, Microsoft had identified the root of the problem: the Zune's internal clock was stumbling as it tried to handle a leap year. (See Microsoft's Zune support site for more details.) Things would start to resolve themselves, the company said in its Zune 30 FAQ, by noon GMT (4 a.m. PT), and it advised users with frozen Zunes to follow these steps:

1. Disconnect your Zune from USB and AC power sources.
2. Because the player is frozen, its battery will drain--this is good. Wait until the battery is empty and the screen goes black. If the battery was fully charged, this might take a couple of hours.
3. Wait until after noon GMT on January 1, 2009 (that's 7 a.m. Eastern or 4 a.m. Pacific time).
4. Connect your Zune to either a USB port on the back or your computer or to AC power using the Zune AC Adapter and let it charge.

One ZuneBoards forum user claimed to have identified the actual trouble spot in the clock driver code. (A tip of the hat to Ars Technica for spotting the post.)

"The Zune's real-time clock stores the time in terms of days and seconds since January 1st, 1980," wrote user itsnotabigtruck. "The Zune frontend first accesses the clock toward the end of the boot sequence. Doing this triggers the code that reads the clock and converts it to a date and time." The post continues:

Under normal circumstances, this works just fine. The function keeps subtracting either 365 or 366 until it gets down to less than a year's worth of days, which it then turns into the month and day of month. Thing is, in the case of the last day of a leap year, it keeps going until it hits 366. Thanks to the if (days > 366), it stops subtracting anything if the loop happens to be on a leap year. But 366 is too large to break out of the main loop, meaning that the Zune keeps looping forever and doesn't do anything else.

For those who hadn't yet run into problems, Microsoft said to refrain from connecting the Zune to a PC before noon GMT on Thursday.

To disconnect the battery, or not to disconnect the battery
Microsoft strongly advised users to ignore advice from forum visitors who suggested disconnecting the Zune's battery to reset the device:

This is a bad idea and we do not recommend opening your Zune by yourself (for one thing, doing so will void your warranty). However, if you've already opened it, do one of the following:
• Wait 24 hours from the time that you reset the Zune and then sync with your computer to refresh the usage rights; or
• Delete the player's content using the Zune software (go to Settings, Device, Sync Options, Erase All Content), then re-sync it from your collection.

Judging from forum comments Thursday morning, however, a number of users had indeed disconnected the battery.

"I got tired of waiting.....opened it up and did a hard reset. Seems that 'triggered' it cause now its telling me to connect it to my PC and then open the Zune software and restore the firmware. It seems to be seeing it.....hopefully all is on the road to recovery," wrote floozuki.

By midday Pacific Time on Thursday, some users found life returning to normal for their Zunes: "Mine came back today just as advertised.... all songs intact...no worries.....," wrote DadGuy, though it wasn't clear which recovery method he had followed.

But others griped that the New Year's freeze was just the latest in a series of problems they'd been facing. Said emilysuz:

I tried the button combo, it's currently stuck on 'Connect Zune to your PC' but it is currently plugged in to my PC. I have had trouble with this thing fopr days, before the widespread crash and I'm beginning to think this thing is just your garden variety piece of crap. I loved my Zune until the battery wouldn't charge. Maybe my Zune troiuble is not the same. It refuses to charge, it only charges long enough to tell me my battery is low and then it dies again, even if it's plugged up. It won't sync, wired or wireless. Again, I love my Zune, but if it's dead it's no good to me.

User JediFarfy sought to mollify emilysuz about the Zune's failure to sync:

Mine wouldn't at first, so I kept disconnecting it and reconnecting it on both ends (comp and Zune). Took about 4 times and it finally connected. Your Zune had a rough, confusing day, give it some love and it'll be fine.

See also:
I want to believe: Reflections on my Zune year
The new Zunes in action

Jonathan Skillings is managing editor of CNET News, based in the Boston bureau. He's been with CNET since 2000, after a decade in tech journalism at the IDG News Service, PC Week, and an AS/400 magazine. He's also been a soldier and a schoolteacher. E-mail Jon.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 3 pages (113 Comments)
by moonbeard January 1, 2009 12:53 PM PST
While nothing is perfect, I just thought I would mention that my iPods and iPhone all appear to be functioning normally through this "difficult time" for Zune users. My sympathies are with you.
Reply to this comment
by timber2005 January 1, 2009 1:56 PM PST
In all fairness, the first 12-36 hours of the iPhone 3G (activation issues), and the first month of MobileMe were "difficult times" too.
by terminalblue January 1, 2009 2:45 PM PST
while nothing is perfect, ipods sound like trash.
by arosania January 1, 2009 3:07 PM PST
terminalblue: typical child reaction.
by Zamoreta January 1, 2009 5:40 PM PST
yeah this is a typical microsoft problem. wouldn't happen on an apple product
by Penguinisto January 1, 2009 6:54 PM PST
Heh - that's funny... seeing the embattled MSFT defenders try and compare complex issues that were resolved by Apple, with countless Zunes turning into bricks due to a stupid basic coding error...
by Vegaman_Dan January 1, 2009 9:09 PM PST
Penguinisto:

The problem is self resolving with the date change. If you are going to attack a company for oversite, be sure to be fair and credit them when the issue is resolved using the advice they gave as well. It is unfair for you to attempt to blame the company for this issue when the issue is already being resolved and not acknowledging that fact.

In addition, my 3rd gen Nano is still bricked due to the unit crashing and Apple is unwilling to do anything about it other than tell me to buy a new one. I don't find that to be 'funny' at all, regardless how much you are laughing.

The Zune bricking issue is being fixed. My dead bricked Nano is not. That's the plain and simple truth of the matter. It does not matter how much spin you wish to put on it, it doesn't hide the truth.
by moonbeard January 2, 2009 12:09 AM PST
"while nothing is perfect, ipods sound like trash."

You couldn't be more wrong Blu-meanie, it's the Apple ear buds that sound like trash (and they hurt my ears), however, iPods sound incredible when you use quality ear gear like my V-moda Vibes or Sony MDR-710s.
by Penguinisto January 2, 2009 6:04 AM PST
Not all of them will be resolved, and honestly, this is one ginormous black eye for the Zune, and for Microsoft.

"It is unfair for you to attempt to blame the company for this issue when the issue is already being resolved and not acknowledging that fact."

The issue is not resolved - it was just put off. What's to acknowledge - that MSFT's big fix was to do not much of anything?

"In addition, my 3rd gen Nano is still bricked due to the unit crashing..."

You are one anomaly of how many millions of people whose last-gen 4GB iPod Nanos are working just fine? Meanwhile, the Zunes bricking-out are not an anomaly - they dropped like flies. Therein lies the rub - break-downs due to statistical anomalies vs. breakdowns due to statistical near-certainties. Which would you want to buy into?
by markdoiron January 2, 2009 6:31 AM PST
I find the various comments of iPod owners puzzling. The iPod and other Apple products have had their own growing pains at various times. As for this being a simple coding problem, remember where this is occurring: In those 30-GB Zunes that have been updated with the latest firmware to give the latest user experience. Now, if this were an Apple product that would be a non-event: There is no "latest firmware to give the latest user experience" for legacy Apple products. The Apple answer is: Buy a new one.

Besides, where's the subscription service for Apple? That, by itself, makes all iPods a non-starter for me.

For the record: Two 30-GB Zunes, both now working. One reset itself after the battery died out. The other one would not, so we disconnected the battery, then reconnected and all is now fine. I think my son was a bit hasty trying to get his back up.

--mark d.
by Mark_Anderson January 3, 2009 10:32 AM PST
Big black eye for MS but it'll fade away now the problem solved.

Incidentally, how's MobileMe these days?
See more comment replies
by ducttape36 January 1, 2009 12:54 PM PST
mine came back this morning. i chose to wait it out like microsoft said. then charged it back up using my clock dock. everything is intact and back to normal. however, charging it through the computer usb may warrant different results since once it reaches a certain charge level it will power on and immediately try to sync with the computer. i suggest using an ac adapter or dock if you have it to charge. then, once it boots successfully, connect it to your computer. again, thats just what i did and im back to normal.

anyone out there with a zune successfully boot it while charging with a computer usb port?
Reply to this comment
by mcnevich January 1, 2009 1:03 PM PST
Yeah, I booted mine with the USB cable connected to the computer. I had drained the battery completely last night, then around noon today I plugged it into the computer. It took a few minutes to get enough of a charge to boot up, then I heard the "ding" that you hear when the computer recognizes the Zune. I did some quick tests--played some music, downloaded a few new songs to make sure they would sync--running like a champ so far...
by Goodbye Helicopter January 1, 2009 1:03 PM PST
tsk tsk tsk.
thank goodness they don't design NASA tools.
Reply to this comment
by nicmart January 1, 2009 1:18 PM PST
I doubt if even Microsoft could design tools worse than NASA does. Perhaps you haven't read the new report on the Columbia tragedy.

"NASA has released new information about the shuttle Columbia disaster nearly six years ago. All seven astronauts were killed when Columbia broke apart upon re-entry over Texas in 2003. in a 400-page report, NASA says the seat restraints, suits and helmets did not work well...."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28436908/

The good news? NASA was able to compile a report and release it within a mere 6 years.
by myles taylor January 1, 2009 2:10 PM PST
NASA's stuff is built by the lowest bidder. That alone is scary. :)
by Hep Cat January 2, 2009 1:10 AM PST
Nicmart: Conclusions based on the barest knowledge. Congratulations! Out of the most complex machine on earth, immersed in the most difficult conditions experienced by any system, you can blame an entire federal agency! You are the man!

Don't dare start blaming the DoD, who insisted upon certain design decisions along with Rockwell and other firms. Obviously, it must all be completely NASA's fault.
by zenwaves January 1, 2009 1:03 PM PST
Incorrect protocol!

The sequence events *should* read:

1. Disconnect Zune from USB and AC power sources.
2. Wait until the battery is empty and the screen goes black.
3. Purchase iPod or other media player not manufactured by Microsoft.
4. Recycle Zune in ecologically responsible manner.

Hope this helps.
Reply to this comment
by dude7895 January 1, 2009 1:17 PM PST
Was that supposed to be funny?
by Dleon84 January 1, 2009 1:22 PM PST
That was AWESOME!
by cnetbioch January 1, 2009 2:06 PM PST
Haaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaaa

Whoooooaaa Haaaaa Haaaaaa

Heeeee Heeeeee (cough cough)

Repeat
by myles taylor January 1, 2009 2:17 PM PST
:P Funny.
by Buttercup841 January 1, 2009 2:18 PM PST
Got a giggle out of me. :)
by johnrf January 1, 2009 2:20 PM PST
It was funny, if you have an iPod.
by terminalblue January 1, 2009 2:47 PM PST
no you still got it wrong.

you left out the part where you return ipod for a zune because of the ipods inferior sound quality.
by arosania January 1, 2009 3:08 PM PST
terminalblue: says who? again, typical child response. grow up.
by DeclinedDoomed January 1, 2009 4:18 PM PST
Made me laugh!

@ terminalblue

I've listened to a Zune and an iPod side by side, and I can tell you they're just about the same. I love my Nano for it's sleek design, great sound quality, and the ground breaking innovation of actually turning on when I want to listen to music.
by Vegaman_Dan January 1, 2009 9:13 PM PST
What advice do you have for me? I have a third gen Nano that is bricked and dead. It's more than a year old and Apple will not help me. They suggested I should buy a new iPod instead.

Granted, I did go out and buy a Touch, so they did get $500 (July prices) out of me instead of repairing the existing unit, but I still have the Nano and would like to get it working again.
by mrobmsu January 1, 2009 1:24 PM PST
I thought it *was* funny!
Reply to this comment
by Pishkado January 1, 2009 1:30 PM PST
What do you expect from a company that actually made MP3 players in brown? (They got rid of a lot of those on woot.com a while back.)
Reply to this comment
by ducttape36 January 1, 2009 2:03 PM PST
dude, brown is my fav color! seriously! i have a brown one. part of the reason i wont get a new one is because they stopped making brown. the brown with the green tint is very earthy feeling. like trees. i find black and white colors boring. everyone has those. i like to be different i guess.
by JoeF2 January 1, 2009 4:12 PM PST
@ducttape36:
Think different, think sh*t-brown ;-)
by ducttape36 January 1, 2009 5:59 PM PST
you, sir, are hilarious. how long did it take for you to come up with that? pure genius. i mean, i like brown! and its the color of ****! hahahaha my god you are the greatest comedian ever. ever!
by SeizeCTRL January 1, 2009 6:02 PM PST
Not everyone is fond of colors that looks like a rainbow vomited all over a bunch of Chinese plastic.
by NPGMBR January 2, 2009 6:27 AM PST
Yeah for some reason everyone digs on the brown but I too love the brown. Then again, its matches my skin color!
by drhamad January 2, 2009 7:41 PM PST
Good thing the Nano's aren't made of plastic then, eh SeizeCTRL?
by brett_cgb January 1, 2009 1:41 PM PST
My wife and I are both comfortable opening up gear for various reasons. She opened up her Zune to disconnect the battery - this worked for her Zune.

My Zune was a different story. It had apparently been running through the night, and the battery was already mostly depleted. The battery disconnect did not work, nor would the battery charge. She swapped her Zune battery in place of mine just long enough to allow my Zune to restart, then put the original battery back in. My zune is working again. This may be the way to "unbrick" a Zune.
Reply to this comment
by lupinlion January 1, 2009 1:47 PM PST
I don't think it was "supposed to be funny," I think it IS funny. Well, not so much his comment, as the willingness of a few.....and I do mean few...people, to cling to the Zune, which has once again been shown to be complete rubbish. I mean, far be it from me to mock Microsoft's portable media player, and its mighty 2% market share....but this is like clinging to Betamax, or HD-DVD....though I'm sure some Crapbox 360 owners are doing just that.
Reply to this comment
by johnrf January 1, 2009 2:20 PM PST
Actually there was nothing wrong with the betamax it just lost too much market share. The zune is much different.... Their problems have nothing to do with market share.
by protagonistic January 1, 2009 5:17 PM PST
I happen to have a Betamax that still works. And I expect it to still be working long after your VHS format VCR gives up the ghost. Superior technology has a way of lasting a lot longer. Something MS has yet to figure out.
by ithomas94 January 8, 2009 6:07 PM PST
After a year of owning my iPod Classic, I am very disappointed.
1. The click wheel is having issues with recognition.
2. The menu screen lags.
3. The lack of customization.
And, I don't know about you, but I certainly don't go around saying this:
**** The Dark Knight would have been sooooo much better if only it had a couple of more pixel's to make it look sharper!!!
And buying a product shouldn't be about whether it has 2% or 98% of the market share; it should be about quality.
This is something that sadly, many people have lost sight of. Including you.
by Fire Balls January 1, 2009 1:57 PM PST
I have the 120 GB zune.. and no problems!! It looks like the only ones having the problem are the older 30GB devices. Still this should have been fixed.
Reply to this comment
by seven7dust January 1, 2009 2:09 PM PST
How awesome !
This is the world's largest software company !
Reply to this comment
by rublo360 January 1, 2009 2:23 PM PST
Maybe I'm doing something wrong but, mm, nothing happen ......
Reply to this comment
by crsteele January 1, 2009 2:47 PM PST
Pretty much par for the course... Let the Redmond Retards loose on something, they will render it completely inoperable within a update or two.

Microsoft able to turn your 2009 speed demon quad core server into a PDA with one software installation.

Microsoft is to software like KFC is to chicken
Reply to this comment
by celticbrewer January 2, 2009 5:09 AM PST
finger lickin' good?

> FINGER -l chicken @kfc.com
by fshepinc January 1, 2009 2:53 PM PST
Total Apple Fanboy here, but in this case I think you need to give Microsoft a break. I have no doubt whatsoever that if they had foreseen this problem, they would have issued a fix. Clearly they were caught of guard -It happens. As long as Microsoft makes good on the Zunes that were bricked, then people should just chalk it up to experience and move on.
Reply to this comment
by protagonistic January 1, 2009 5:20 PM PST
The real problem here is that MS does not seem to have competent programmers on staff anymore. As far as products go the Zune is a decent player. It is just hampered by people who don't seem to be able to understand the code they write.
by celticbrewer January 2, 2009 5:17 AM PST
I'll agree with both of you on that one. Especially in a big company, there'll be at least one slacker who rather half-arse their way through a task so they can get back to reading cnet.com all day (hmmm... sounds familiar).

If it weren't for all the software bugs my company deals with (homegrown apps, vendor apps, microsoft, and apple), I wouldn't have a job.
by n8anderson January 2, 2009 10:30 AM PST
@protagonistic

Have you taken a look at the .NET framework? If you don't know what it is, you are not qualified to make a statement that bold. Microsoft has its problems, but employing competent programmers is not one of them.
by ducttape36 January 2, 2009 10:25 PM PST
i agree. especially considering the error effected the zune 30, the first generation zune that wasnt inititally designed for these features. i guess its easy to overlook something like that over the course of all the firmware updates and ensuring compatibility with the whole zune universe. what im trying to say is id rather have a hiccup one day than to skip out on all the great features these firmware updates provide. beats buying a new ipod every few years.
by myzuneisdead January 1, 2009 2:54 PM PST
so does this work if your zune was previously dead like for a month because you can't find the charger? Also i sort of customized my zune and i never updated it past the 1st update, got it in 2007 christmas season. Is mine still affected?
Reply to this comment
by daghst January 1, 2009 4:40 PM PST
its fine i just found my sync cable and it works perfectly
by imxxboredxx January 1, 2009 2:59 PM PST
Honestly, I love my zune but I've been having so many problems with it. I've had a zune since christmas 2007, but i had to return it for a new one this october. It's getting kind of ridiculous, every month or so a new major problem arises. (There's also the little things like sometimes refusing to charge or sync properly.) I'm just so sick of this, I wish I would have asked for an Ipod.
Reply to this comment
by 8301 January 1, 2009 3:03 PM PST
I don't understand why people are gloating over this. You all act like you won a prize because someone else's mp3 player had a problem and yours didn't.
Reply to this comment
by random truth January 1, 2009 7:54 PM PST
Thats because I told you my corn chip was better...
by loose_screw January 1, 2009 3:03 PM PST
Nice one, Microsoft.
Reply to this comment
by lupinlion January 1, 2009 3:17 PM PST
Fair point (although vhs developed slightly better sound fidelity later in the game). But my general point was that people are straddling a dinosaur by cheerleading the Zune, its market share is only going to decrease towards obsolesence.
Reply to this comment
by lupinlion January 1, 2009 3:24 PM PST
Says who? Says the five Zune users who exist on this planet, that's who....well, sorry.....I meant four. The Zune holds no advantage over the iPod in terms of sound fidelity. Neither does is it have a larger, brighter screen than the iPod; a longer battery life than the iPod; more extensive format compatibility than the iPod; nor is it made of higher quality components than the iPod (for hell's sake, it looks and feels like a cheap prepaid mobile).
Reply to this comment
by ywkhgqo January 1, 2009 4:01 PM PST
umm, hate to tell you but the zune definitely does have a bigger screen than the current ipod classic. you can't compare it to the touch because they are entirely different all together. more extensive format compatibility? The ipod can play mp3's, aac's, mp4's so basically all of apple's format's except mp3. Don't talk about format compatibility with the pod. IT looks and feels like a cheap prepaid mobile? THE IPOD SCREEN IS MADE OF PLASTIC. The zune has a much more resilient glass screen. I've also seen a zune take much more abuse than an ipod. I don't know anyone that as older ipods because they just don't last. I know a lot of people with older zunes though. Take a look at cnet's last prize fight between the ipod and zune. The zune won. So shove it.

and no i don't own a zune. I'm an ipod owner.
by SVEarl47 January 1, 2009 4:55 PM PST
"I don't know anyone that as older ipods because they just don't last."

iPods can and do last - my friend, after five years, just replaced her iPod mini.
by kilplostand January 1, 2009 6:50 PM PST
Im a Zune Owner and i love the zune, Well for one i got mine for 400$ cheaper than the Ipooed. For another the sound quality on it is amazing considering it is in MP3 format or WMA with converter. I personally think that the best sound for a MP3 Player is that X-FI MP3 Player that creative makes. But IPooed's Just suck, they keep getting outdated and then when it comes time to purchace music from their dumb store they cheat you out of your money faster than a cheap hooker. IPooed music store makes less sense than george bush being in office, cause if you reformat your pc or move to a different PC there is 0 songs on your purchase history. So next time you think about your Ipooed just remember that it is a pile of hot steaming POO.
by random truth January 1, 2009 7:57 PM PST
Kilpostand,
How can you get a zune for $400 cheaper than the ipod when the most expensive ipod costs $399 (btw thats the ipod touch 32) Did microsoft give you a zune then pay you to use it?
by Sporlo January 1, 2009 9:51 PM PST
All 8 of my families iPods still work great (it's a lot, but it's nice to have up to date hardware), and 6 of them are 1 year or older, including a Mini from who knows when that was used probably more than any of the other ones.

random truth: He could have gotten it before the Touch's price was brought down.
by celticbrewer January 2, 2009 5:26 AM PST
I'm not sure why people buy either of them. You want something to play MP3s... there are a LOT of options out there and most are cheaper than the ipod or zune and perform the same function. If you have a halfway decent cell phone, even those will play MP3s so you don't need to tote around an extra device.

Apple has always been very restrictive with what you can do with their products which is why I'd never own one. I've tried itunes and I surely wouldn't want that POS on my computer. I'm happy to copy mp3s right to my device how I want to, not how I'm forced to.
by imotionsrt4 January 2, 2009 6:07 AM PST
"iPods can and do last - my friend, after five years, just replaced her iPod mini"

Ohhh the ironing
by ithomas94 January 8, 2009 6:09 PM PST
by SVEarl47 January 1, 2009 4:55 PM PST
"I don't know anyone that as older ipods because they just don't last."

iPods can and do last - my friend, after five years, just replaced her iPod mini.
sadly, my iPod Classic is having functionality issues only a year after I bought it.
by mikehill33 January 1, 2009 3:29 PM PST
so glad I junked my Zine months ago. Poor engineering re-affirms the **** poor experience of the Zune.
Reply to this comment
by xxenclavexx January 2, 2009 11:45 AM PST
engineering, or a source code error? Nothing is physically wrong with the product
by mbenedict January 2, 2009 12:31 PM PST
@xxenclavexx:

It was a source code error... not even Microsoft's error but an error in the driver code supplied by the real-time clock's manufacturer (Freescale, which I believe was still owned by Motorola at the time the code was written years ago.)
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