Nanotech - The Circuits Blog

Call it the Netbook halo effect: small and cheap is infectious. A quick peek at the lineups of new laptops slated for the Windows 7 (October 22) roll-out make it clear that the prices of mainstream and higher-end laptops are diving, even as the technology gets better.

"There's a new reality in laptop pricing," said Bob O'Donnell, an analyst at market-researcher IDC. "It's getting harder and harder to sell anything over $800." O'Donnell cited a data point that showed the average selling price of notebooks falling below desktops briefly in retail. "That may have been an anomaly, but the fact that's it's even close is indicative of this phenomenon."

That said, let's start with HP, the world's largest PC supplier. Svelte, well-built business laptops have historically been priced at a premium--starting at more than $1,000. Not anymore. On October 22, HP will begin selling the 13-inch ProBook 5310m that is about 0.9 inches thin, less than four pounds, and clad in an aluminum display enclosure and a magnesium alloy bottom case for $699.

HP ProBook 5310m starts at $699: this class of business laptop used to start at well over $1,000

(Credit: Hewlett-Packard)

That's about $800 less than the HP EliteBook 2530p business notebook series introduced in August of last year (that started at about $1,500). The 5310m is priced at $699 with an Intel Celeron dual-core processor and $899 with Intel Core 2 Duo chip. Both come with the Windows 7 operating system.

That's what I call a sea change in pricing.

But it gets better. Then there's the 4-pound HP Pavilion dm3 notebook that starts at $549 (no, it's not a Netbook) and will likely range up to about $700 in price for a reasonable memory and hard drive configuration. The 13-inch laptop comes with power-efficient Intel Core 2 Duo or AMD Neo dual-core processors and a standard 6-cell battery that delivers--so HP claims--up to 10 hours of battery life.

I was able to play with a dm3 at a function sponsored by Advanced Micro Devices recently in San Francisco. My immediate impression was that this was a light but solid design.

The Apple $999 MacBook is suddenly ... Read more

Hewlett-Packard was one of the early trendsetters in the ultrathin laptop market with its Voodoo design. But the product has languished for more than a year. What happened--or what will happen--isn't clear.

The ultrathin laptop market is hot and one of the most visible laptop segments today. And activity in this segment has spiked recently in the wake of a raft of new, inexpensive thin laptops from MSI, Acer, and Lenovo, using low-power Intel chips.

HP's Voodoo Envy was a trendsetting ultrathin laptop but it hasn't been updated in a year.

(Credit: Hewlett-Packard)

The Apple MacBook Air and Dell Adamo are two of the most prominent designs. The Air has now been refreshed twice. Dell's svelte Adamo was announced in March, complementing its ultrathin business laptop, the Latitude E4200.

But the razor-thin 0.7-inch-thick Voodoo Envy 133--first announced in June 2008--has stood still. ... Read more

Updated at 5:15 p.m. PDT: correcting for AMD dual-core Neo in HP dv2 laptop and adding Acer Aspire Timeline AS3810T discussion.

Advanced Micro Devices will debut its dual-core low-power Athlon chip technology on an updated laptop from Hewlett-Packard next week. This will be followed by "Congo" low-power silicon later this year.

HP will update its Pavilion dv2 laptop with a dual-core version of AMD's low-power Athlon processor

(Credit: Hewlett-Packard)

AMD is aiming its Neo technology at the ultra-thin laptop market. This is the same market that Intel has addressed for a long time with its ULV (ultra-low-voltage) chips. However, until very recently, laptops using Intel's ULV chips were expensive "executive jewelry," as Intel CEO Paul Otellini has described the segment. (Think: $2,000-and-up Sony Vaio TT or Toshiba Portege R600 laptops.)

That was then. Intel now targets its ULV silicon at inexpensive ultra-thin laptops. It's probably safe to say that AMD beat Intel to the punch (and got Intel's attention) when HP announced the 0.9-inch-thick, $700 dv2 laptop at CES in January, sporting the first Neo chip.

And the dv2 was more than a Netbook: it had a 12-inch screen, ran Windows Vista, packed ATI graphics, and came replete with a 320GB hard disk drive and 4GB of memory.

The updated HP Pavilion dv2 is expected to debut on June 10 with the dual-core Athlon Neo.

The dual-core Neo chip used in the updated HP dv2 (which is exclusive to HP) will be followed by AMD's Congo technology, due in the third quarter, which integrates AMD's HD3200 graphics, an improvement over the current "Yukon" platform. The all-important power envelope--that, after all, is what sets the technology apart from mainstream mobile silicon--of the whole package including the graphics is expected to be about the same as the first-generation Neo, according to AMD.

Other vendors will follow with low-power dual-core Congo chips later this year, according to AMD. The new silicon will be used in 24 designs across 11 different PC makers--though AMD says this list is expected to grow.

One of the challenges that AMD faces is benchmarks. This CNET review of the first HP dv2 laptop with the initial Neo chip said that though the "1.6 GHz Neo CPU MV-40 has enough processing power to run Windows Vista smoothly, something that has tripped up Intel-Atom-powered systems" when "running multiple apps simultaneously, none of these low-power, single-core CPUs were particularly impressive, and the Neo and Atom were essentially tied in our multitasking test. By way of comparison, a standard Intel Core 2 Duo ULV (ultra-low voltage) processor, as found in more expensive 12-inch laptops, easily beats them all."

Another challenge is power efficiency. Though a dual-core Neo chip should close some of the performance gap with Intel dual-core ULV chips, it remains to be seen what kind of battery life Neo delivers with two cores. AMD says the extra core only adds three watts over the current single-core 15-watt power envelope. The newest Intel-based ultra-thin laptops boast significantly better battery life than older Intel ULV laptops, with some models, such as the Acer Aspire Timeline AS3810T, delivering up to eight hours on one charge.

Select processors from Advanced Micro Devices do not support Windows 7 "XP mode" though, like Intel, the vast majority of shipping processors do support XP mode.

Microsoft describes XP mode on its Web site as follows: "As part of the upcoming Windows 7 Release Candidate milestone, Microsoft will release a beta version of Windows XP Mode, which allows users of Windows 7 Professional and above to launch many older Windows XP productivity applications directly from their Windows 7 desktop. The Windows XP Mode stand-alone feature is specifically designed to help small businesses that are using Windows XP applications move to Windows 7. For larger businesses, Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization (MED-V) MED-V 2.0 builds on top of Windows Virtual PC and provides centralized management of Windows XP Mode. MED-V 2.0 will be available in beta within 90 days of general availability of Windows 7."

"All CPUs AMD is currently shipping, except Sempron, include AMD-V and therefore support XP mode," an AMD spokeswoman said Wednesday.

AMD also cited processors that are not necessarily shipping currently. "With the exceptions of Sempron-branded processors and Turion K8 Rev E processors, all notebook processors shipped by AMD include AMD-V and therefore support Windows 7 XP mode," AMD said. "With the exceptions of Sempron-branded processors and pre-Rev F Athlon branded processors, all of the desktop processors shipped by AMD include AMD-V and therefore support Windows 7 in XP mode."

And Opteron processors: "Also, all AMD Opteron processors shipped by AMD from Rev F forward include AMD-V," according to AMD.

A quick search on Best Buy's Web site turned up very-low-end systems that use the Sempron processor. For example, a $329.99 Acer desktop is currently being sold with a Sempron processor. And on Hewlett-Packard's Web site, an HP Compaq dx2450 Microtower (starting at $329), for example, can be configured with a number of different Sempron processors.

Dell has sold laptops, such as the Latitude D531, with AMD Mobile Sempron processors.

An earlier Nanotech: The Circuits Blog post cited Intel processors that do not support XP mode. Intel spokesman Nick Knupffer asserts this won't be a big issue. "Having VT (Virtualization Technology) on these consumer laptops is not going to be an issue--because the consumer versions of Windows 7 (Starter, Home Basic, and Home Premium) do not include Windows XP Mode," he writes.

Updated on May 6 at 6:35 p.m. PDT with additional comments from Intel.

A small brouhaha is erupting over Windows 7 and Intel processors. The hubbub is centered on which Intel processors will not support "XP mode" in Windows 7 and, by extension, which PCs will not support XP mode. Retail laptops may be one of the most prominent segments affected.

Sony Vaio laptops sold at retail stores are among a number of models from a variety of PC makers that have processors that don't support Windows 7 XP mode

(Credit: Best Buy)

What is XP Mode? Here's how Ina Fried of CNET News describes it: "XP mode consists of two things, the Windows Virtual PC engine and a licensed copy of Windows XP Service Pack 3 as a packaged virtual machine. Although neither piece will be included in the Windows 7 box, XP Mode will be a free download for those who have a license to Windows 7 Professional, Windows 7 Enterprise, or Windows 7 Ultimate."

XP Mode (XPM) is aimed at businesses that have Windows XP-specific applications that they need to run on Windows 7. XPM allows XP applications to run seamlessly on Windows 7, according to Microsoft. The catch: Intel processors must have Virtualization Technology, or "Intel VT," in order to run XPM. (I won't cover Advanced Micro Devices processors here but will address AMD in a later post.)

Ed Bott's Microsoft Report says that "some of the most popular PCs on the market today...won't be able to use the vaunted Windows XP mode in Windows 7."

Bott lists Intel desktop and mobile processors that will and will not support XP Mode here and here, respectively.

Intel mobile processors may be the most problematic in supporting XP mode; not because of the raw numbers--most newer Intel mobile processors do, in fact, support Intel Virtualization Technology--but because a disproportionate number of those that do not have VT (and therefore don't support XP mode) are laptops sold at retail. (And, undoubtedly, some small businesses purchase laptops at retail.)

In the Core 2 mobile camp, the P7350/7450, the T5200/5250/5270/5300/5450/5470 series, and the T6400/6570 do not support VT, according to Bott's blog. And this can be confirmed on Intel's Web site.

A quick glance at Best Buy shows a somewhat lengthy list of laptop SKUs (models) with, for instance, the T6400 (non-VT) processor. The list includes Dell Studio, Toshiba Satellite, HP Pavilion, Sony Vaio, Asus, and Gateway laptops.

In the $600 to $899 laptop range, I found about 30 different SKUs with T6400 processors, though it should be noted that some of these SKUs are simply models with slightly different configurations.

And a quick search on CNET Shopper turns up a number of consumer models with the T5270. The point? To state the obvious, consumers will have to verify which processor their laptop has.

In an Intel blog, Nick Knupffer asserts this won't be a big issue. "Having VT on these consumer laptops is not going to be an issue--because the consumer versions of Windows 7 (Starter, Home Basic, and Home Premium) do not include Windows XP Mode," he writes.

And Intel, in a statement, had this to say. "Intel introduced its Virtualization Technology in 2005 and has shipped over 100 Million chips with the feature. Windows XP Mode is targeted for business customers. It is available on the mid to higher end versions of Windows 7 and is supported in hardware by many Intel processors."

Intel continued: "Intel vPro technology PCs are required to have an Intel VT capable CPU and Intel VT capable BIOS. They are the best platforms for testing and deploying Microsoft Windows Virtual PC and Windows XP Mode."

Advanced Micro Devices' server roadmap is solid but its mainstream mobile lineup is languishing.

AMD's six-core "Istanbul" processor release was moved up to June

(Credit: AMD)

First, the good news. These days AMD is walking the talk. This is a radical change from the AMD of 2007-2008, which always seemed to have a hopper full of Intel-vanquishing paper processors that, if they did materialize, disappointed.

Fast forward to AMD's Tuesday earnings announcement, when the company said it was actually moving up the introduction its most sophisticated processor, the six-core Istanbul, to June.

And AMD has proved its silicon mettle at large server customers such as IBM and Sun Microsystems--the latter's executive vice president John Fowler had nothing but praise for AMD processors in high-end Sun server systems.

In a "Global Webcast" on server technology Wednesday, Patrick Patla, a vice president in AMD's server and workstation business, revealed a strong roadmap, saying that 8- and 12-core "Magny-Cours" processors will appear in 2010. "We're currently working on new processors which we expect will deliver more than 35 times the performance of the original single-core AMD Opteron processor released in 2003," Patla said in a statement.

Intel, of course, will also bring out many-core processors, but AMD is keeping pace, and, according to people who should know, like Sun's Fowler, maybe more than keeping pace.

Now, the bad news. This post today on CNET's Crave blog says it all: "One of our biggest issues with HP's Pavilion dv3z was its AMD processor, keeping it from beating out the performance of comparable 13- and 14-inch laptops with Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs." This is, by no means, the first review that expresses this sentiment. In short, AMD mobile platforms consistently come up short in the high-profile, burgeoning laptop market. Will AMD close the gap in 2009?

Maybe one answer to that question is AMD's Neo chip that powers the low-cost, ultra-thin HP Pavilion dv2 laptop. More than a Netbook but less than a mainstream laptop, this kind of sleek mobile device could eventually eclipse the high-end Netbook segment.

AMD CEO Dirk Meyer said Tuesday that the single-core Neo processor will get a dual-core sibling dubbed "Congo" by summer. A dual-core processor in this low-cost, MacBook-Air-for-the-masses category is a compelling proposition. AMD needs to stay ahead of the game, especially when Intel brings out chips for this category in the May-June timeframe.

Advanced Micro Devices' chief executive predicts that Netbooks will eventually disappear. This thinking, though obviously favorable to AMD's strategy, isn't completely at odds with Intel's.

The lightweight HP Pavilion dv2, which uses the AMD Neo processor, is marketed as a notebook

(Credit: Hewlett-Packard)

"The distinction between what is a Netbook and what is a notebook is going to go away," AMD CEO Dirk Meyer said Thursday in the company's earnings conference call.

"There will be a continuum of price points and form factors," he said.

"Given the way Netbooks are configured today, consumers who want a notebook at those kind of (low) price points have to compromise and as a result don't enjoy a full PC experience, particularly around the graphics and media capability of the machine," Meyer said. "And likewise people who wanted a thin and light machine had to pay a lot of money, typically well over a thousand dollars."

Upcoming inexpensive ultra-thin notebooks will meet the need for a small, thin, lightweight laptop that is more powerful than a Netbook, Meyer said.

This sentiment is actually backed up to some extent by Intel's recent behavior. Intel CEO Paul Otellini, in that company's earnings conference call last week, spoke oddly of Netbooks in the past tense. He said the buzz around Netbooks at the Consumer Electronics Show "validates our view that (the market) had a high potential for growth and it was an exciting segment, in particular in this kind of economic environment." (Emphasis added.) Otellini did add, however, that he expected Intel "would do very well in the Netbook market in the course of the next couple of years."

Whether his use of tense is just a way to refer to the Netbook market to date or a Freudian slip tied to Intel's intention to bring out new mainstream Core architecture chips for inexpensive thin notebooks later in the year, is not clear. This chip platform could potentially suck a lot of the enthusiasm out of the Netbook market.

And Intel has small plans for its Atom processor in 2009. Aside from a tiny increase in processor speed and a slight improvement in graphics, nothing big is slated for the platform. Is the demise of the Netbook market as we know it today something both AMD and Intel agree on? We'll see.

Updated at 11:05 p.m. PST with additional information throughout.

Another Netbook? No, not exactly. Hewlett-Packard's new Pavilion dv2 is an ultraportable, thank you. And the new Athlon Neo silicon inside from Advanced Micro Devices will try to prove that point.

AMD is introducing new chips at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas that target the no-man's land between Netbooks and notebooks. Typically, these designs are referred to as ultraportables--the most salient examples being Apple's MacBook Air, the Toshiba Portege, and the Sony Vaio TT series.

So what makes AMD's platform different? In one word, price. Ultraportables fall into the boutique category of laptops: very stylish, very slim, very light--and very expensive. Usually ranging between $1,500 and $3,000. HP's notebook with Athlon Neo silicon cuts the price in half. The Pavilion dv2 will start at $699 and top out at $899 for standard configurations.

HP 12-inch Pavilion dv2 ultraportable starts at $699, at least half the price of traditional ultraportable notebooks like the MacBook Air, Toshiba Portege, and Sony Vaio TT series.

(Credit: Hewlett-Packard)

The dv2, at 3.8 pounds, is slightly heavier than ultraportables that typically weigh between 2.5 and 3 pounds. It is 0.9-inches thick, slightly thicker than more expensive ultraportables like the MacBook Air.

But the Pavilion dv2 will pack features such as an AMD-ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3410 separate (discrete) graphics chip, a relatively large hard disk drive (HP lists drives up to 500GB), and a 12.1-inch LED screen. Features that differentiate it from Netbooks and put it squarely into ultraportable territory.

AMD Athlon Neo silicon details

(Credit: AMD)

The dv2 will also come with WWAN (Wireless Wide Area Network) options as well as standard Bluetooth and Wi-Fi.

Bahr Mahony, AMD's manager of mobile products, said in an interview that one of the few ultraportables available today with discrete graphics is the MacBook Air, but this starts at a whopping $1,800. (The Air uses Nvidia's GeForce 9400M graphics and Intel's Core 2 Duo low-voltage processors.)

The Athlon Neo platform can handle 1080p HD playback and a "casual" gaming experience with realistic 3D graphics, using the optional ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3410 graphics chip.

AMD's Athlon Neo processor--formerly code-named "Huron" under the platform codename "Yukon"--runs at 1.6GHz and has a power envelope of 15 watts, comparable to Intel ULV (Ultra Low Voltage) Core 2 Duo processors that power ultraportables today.

AMD's Neo does fall short in one respect, however. Currently it is only single-core, whereas Intel ULV processors are dual-core at a comparable power envelope, and, moreover, typically integrate 6MB level-2 cache memory to boost performance. AMD's Neo has only 512K of cache memory.

A dual-core chip, code-named "Conesus," will come in the second half of this year, according to AMD's Mahoney.

The first HP Pavilion dv2 ultrathin notebook is expected to be available from HP in the second quarter.

Update: Are three cores better than two? Consumers now get the chance to decide. AMD's X3 Phenom processors are available in low-cost consumer systems from Hewlett-Packard (HP), Gateway, and eMachines.

Also, on the quad-core front, AMD said Wednesday that Dell is offering five server platforms based on the AMD "Barcelona" Opteron processor.

Gateway model GT5670 with Phenom X3 is priced at $549

(Credit: Best Buy)

The AMD Phenom X3 8400 (2.1GHz) and 8600 (2.3GHz) are the first mainstream x86 processors to use three cores. "The value proposition is simple. Three cores versus two cores. You make the choice," Pat Moorhead, VP of Advanced Marketing at AMD, said in a recent interview.

The Gateway model GT5670 packs an X3 8400 processor (2.1GHz) with 2MB of L3 cache memory, 3GB (PC2-5300 DDR2) of main memory, an Nvidia GeForce 6150 SE graphics card, and a 320GB Serial ATA II hard disk drive with 8MB cache (7200 rpm). This configuration goes for $549 at Best Buy.

The HP Pavilion a6430f is eerily similar. It also comes with an X3 8400 Phenom, 3GB PC2-5300 DDR2 memory, and Nvidia GeForce 6150 SE graphics. However, instead of a 320GB hard disk drive, it doubles the capacity with a 640GB drive. This system is priced at $679. HP also offers the Pavilion a6450z series on its Web site with the X3.

The eMachines J4509 is being sold in Japan and features an X3 8400 and AMD 780G integrated graphics. With a 19-inch LCD display, it retails in Japan for just under $1,000.

The initial Phenom X3 processors will ship as the B2 "stepping" or version. The follow-on versions in the channel will be the B3, said Moorhead. The B3 version fixes the TLB bug, which AMD has said all along is an extremely rare occurrence and affects virtually no one except, possibly, very high-end customers. Any chips designated with a "50" suffix will be a processor that implements the fix in silicon.

AMD also recently announced the availability of four new Phenom X4 processors with the TLB bug fix. Led by the AMD Phenom 2.5GHz X4 9850 Black Edition processor (which is designed to be overclocked) and 2.4GHZ 9750, these CPUs will be matched with the AMD 790 series chipsets. The quad-core Phenoms are targeted at higher-end gaming segments.

In related news, AMD announced Wednesday that Dell servers using the quad-core AMD "Barcelona" Opteron processor include the PowerEdge SC1435, 2970, M605 blade server and 6950 platforms, as well as the new PowerEdge T605 tower server. Dell follows HP which already lists its ProLiant G5 servers with quad-core Opteron processors.