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February 20, 2009 1:25 PM PST

ISPs worry that Net safety bills would outlaw e-mail

by Declan McCullagh
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Two new federal proposals that Republican supporters claim will protect children have alarmed Internet companies, who say the measures could make it a crime to provide e-mail.

The bills, each named the Internet Safety Act and announced at a press conference on Thursday, have mostly attracted attention for a sweeping requirement saying broadband providers and Wi-Fi access points must keep records on users for two years.

Another section of the legislation, however, is numbered 1960B. It says anyone employed at a provider who "knowingly engages in any conduct the provider knows or has reason to believe facilitates access to, or the possession of, child pornography" will be fined and imprisoned for not more than 10 years.

For Internet firms, the quandary is this: The mere provision of e-mail, electronic storage, cloud-computing services, and social-networking sites could be viewed as an act that "facilitates access to" illegal content, especially if the provider knows that some users in the past have been less than law-abiding. (And the threat of arrest, indictment, and imprisonment makes them unwilling to hope prosecutors interpret the language conservatively.)

"The legislation, as currently drafted, appears to raise the specter of imputing criminal liability on ISPs and others for the provision of routine services, such as e-mail," said Kate Dean, executive director of the U.S. Internet Service Provider Association, or US ISPA.

US ISPA's members include Verizon, Comcast, AOL, AT&T, and EarthLink.

(The relevant text explicitly mentions e-mail: "Whoever, being an Internet content hosting provider or e-mail service provider, knowingly engages in any conduct the provider knows or has reason to believe facilitates access to, or the possession of, child pornography...shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.")

The pair of Texas Republicans who announced the proposal at a press conference on Thursday--Rep. Lamar Smith, the ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee, and Sen. John Cornyn--said it's necessary to protect children online. The Internet's "limitless nature offers anonymity that has opened the door to criminals looking to harm innocent children," Cornyn said.

In an opinion article published in the Dallas Morning News on Thursday, Smith defended his legislation by saying, "How many times have we seen TV detectives seek call logs of a suspect in order to determine who he has been talking to? What if the telephone companies simply said to the detectives, 'Sorry, we get rid of that information after 24 hours?'"

Neither Smith nor Cornyn responded to repeated inquiries from CNET News on Friday.

Two bills have been introduced so far--S.436 in the Senate and HR 1076 in the House. Each of the bills is titled "Internet Stopping Adults Facilitating the Exploitation of Today's Youth Act," or Internet Safety Act.

Declan McCullagh, CNET News' chief political correspondent, chronicles the intersection of politics and technology. He has covered politics, technology, and Washington, D.C., for more than a decade, which has turned him into an iconoclast and a skeptic of anyone who says, "We oughta have a new federal law against this." E-mail Declan.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (40 Comments)
by gggg sssss February 20, 2009 1:44 PM PST
When did we hire somebody from China to run the government. Or maybe it is something built into those Lenovo computers they are buying.
Reply to this comment
by zhubajie12 February 20, 2009 3:25 PM PST
Texas is worse than China in lots of ways.
by gggg sssss February 21, 2009 10:05 AM PST
hubajie12 name just one way Texas is worse
by A_Wave February 22, 2009 8:19 AM PST
1. Texas executes a higher percentage of its population.
2. Texans speak English with a more annoying accent.
3. Texas does not have enough money to bankroll our recovery.
by A_Wave February 22, 2009 8:38 AM PST
I thought of some more ways Texas is worse than China:

1. W
2. Robert Allen Stanford
3. Enron
4. Big hair
5. Bad manners, especially abroad (which to Texans means everywhere outside of Texas)
6. Music (OK this one may be a toss-up).
by A_Wave February 22, 2009 8:50 AM PST
Wait! There's more! Texas is worse than China in...

...gymnastics! Can you picture one of those big-boned, beer-fed Texas heifers on a balance beam? Or the clanking of all that fake jewelry on the approach to the vault? How about the Max Factor Pan-Cake makeup smeared all over the floor exercise mat? I don't even want to think about the flapping of fringes and cellulite on the uneven bars.

Anyone else wanna play?
by zhubajie12 February 22, 2009 2:39 PM PST
China has no open container laws. Walk down the street swigging from a beer bottle in China, no one will arrest you. How 'bout in Texas? Chinese people have a constitutional right to a nap after lunch. Do Texans? Chinese mothers are free to breast-feed their babies anywhere they feel like it. Are Texas mothers? Then there's the whole subject of food....

Zhu Bajie
by A_Wave February 22, 2009 5:11 PM PST
I hear you Zhu! Real Mongolian barbecue is the stuff dreams are made of. Don't even get me stared on szechuan!
by victor_sf February 23, 2009 1:22 AM PST
Oh, man: A_Wave and zhubajie12 - you rock!
by kgsbca February 20, 2009 2:17 PM PST
why aren't any cops busting these two texan politicians for using drugs?
Reply to this comment
by Ludjer February 21, 2009 11:42 PM PST
its a recreational drugs
hell i feel sorry for you people that have never done drugs you are missing out.
by skillingssucks February 20, 2009 2:20 PM PST
Clueless Republican asshats. Nothing but filthy trash.
Reply to this comment
by zhubajie12 February 24, 2009 8:12 PM PST
If more of them smoked dope, the world would be a safer place.
by aka_tripleB February 20, 2009 2:37 PM PST
Is anyone else starting to really think that this bill is just a way to stifle free speech?
Reply to this comment
by tm_anon February 20, 2009 4:45 PM PST
glad I'm not the only one
by A_Wave February 22, 2009 8:20 AM PST
This kind of thing is why I joined the ACLU.
by Va-Tom February 22, 2009 6:54 PM PST
This law has nothing to do with subverting free speech. It is purely political.
Just like the Republican Govs threat to not take any stim. money, they are playing to an easily manipulated base.
They bring up a ridiculous bill like this and when the reasonable members of Congress oppose it, they get to rant about how the Liberal Democrats are opposed to protecting children while protecting child abusers
There's no great anti-Constitutional conspiracy, just moronic politics from an impotent bunch of has-beens.
by aka_tripleB February 23, 2009 8:58 AM PST
With the ease of changing encryption on e-mail, you really can't say that they would want to keep us only using communications that they can control. I know people are going to flame me with, "If you're doing nothing wrong, what are you trying to hide," remarks. Well, there are times when you need to make it extremely difficult for others to intercept your communications, even citizens do have instances of this. If you want to communicate with a doctor or lawyer, these are both examples when you have every expectation that the communication will not be heard by any outside party. Besides, what kind of message is the government sending if it does decide that we can no longer easily send legal e-mails? The hidden agenda question does swing both ways.
by zhubajie12 February 24, 2009 8:15 PM PST
The Reptiles can't run on the economy or their successful war record, so they have to invent some other excuse. So it's Child Pornography! Sex Terrorism! Notice, they haven't said what they think Child Pornography is; it might be the classic photo of your baby naked on a rug.

Religion will come up, too. Their favorite Brand X Protestants want to be a sort of state church.
by Dylan_Wisor February 20, 2009 2:59 PM PST
Something that facilitates access to illegal content? How about the entire bloody internet?

I can see what they're attempting to do. They want to put liability on the service providers (ISPs in particular) so that they have a vested interest in keeping the tubes a little cleaner. Too bad they're doing it in grand fascist fashion. In the guise of Reaganish morality of course.
Reply to this comment
by NikEst February 22, 2009 10:37 PM PST
Don't forget, they said it would 'protect children on the internet', but face it, that's impossible. This bill only wants to help clean up the mess, but in an awful way. I'm gonna join the ACLU if this passes.
by Hunnter2k3 February 20, 2009 3:08 PM PST
And this is exactly why it won't pass.
Or at least, it better not.

If it does, beat it into their thick heads that it CAN'T work.
The internet, nor any regular person can ever handle such a task.

To put it in other words, it is like jailing the victim of a house break in because they never asked the name, address and phone number of the robber!
Reply to this comment
by rkinne01 February 20, 2009 3:09 PM PST
Aka I was thinking the same thing.
Reply to this comment
by zhubajie12 February 20, 2009 3:26 PM PST
Did you notice the one fool appealing to TV shows for his ideas? Someone tell him, please, that cop shows on TV are not real life.
Reply to this comment
by tm_anon February 20, 2009 4:51 PM PST
I'm guessing next they'll want to pass a bill outlawing any physical material which could be used to promote the creation or distribution of child pornography (ie, webcam, digital cameras, film, VCRs, DVD burners and players, Bluray divices, paper, paint, metal, wood, stone, plastic and glass).

Since all of these can be used in the creation of a pornographic image of a child, they must go away as well, right? Well, at least according to these two idiots from Texas they do.

I agree, child pornography is a horrible thing, but let's pay a little attention to what Bills we pass this time around.
Reply to this comment
by RCH1965 February 20, 2009 4:51 PM PST
Extrapolating the language:
The car salesman is guilty of bank robbery because the car was used to get away
The department store clerk is guilty of murder because the kitchen knife was used to kill someone
The grocery store clerk is guily of assult because a customer injured someone with a household chemical.
Need I go on?

I have no problem protecting my children from harmful Internet sites - the computer is used only where I can see what they are doing.
Reply to this comment
by cybervigilante February 20, 2009 8:20 PM PST
Hmm, these are the same rotten repugs who always vote against, food, education or assistance of any kind for the children of the poor. Oh, they're soooooo concerned with the welfare of children - hypocritical $$#@s Bush already extended the National Police State, and they want to complete the job.
Reply to this comment
by JCPayne February 20, 2009 9:01 PM PST
The REPUBLICANS are pushing communism? Well the U.S. Tech industry has been spying on the Chinese for years. They can afford to give the Americans a taste.
Reply to this comment
by Ludjer February 21, 2009 11:45 PM PST
I R has child pron gief prison sentence plox > <
child porn will always exist and there is nothing what you can do against it
stupid laws, America must grow up and out of these silly uber security measures


i feel sorry for you people
it must suck
Reply to this comment
by heez10 February 22, 2009 4:58 AM PST
Republicans are pushing the continuation of loss of our civil liberties which started unde Bush. We need to contact our representatives to reinstate the fairness doctrine so we can shut up those extremist right wing radio hosts, from Limbough to the local ones.
Reply to this comment
by A_Wave February 22, 2009 8:55 AM PST
Join the fight!

www.aclu.org
by zhubajie12 February 22, 2009 2:44 PM PST
Bush revealed the secret of empire: start a war and everyone will let you amass autocratic powers. Congress in particular will be as servile as so many court eunuchs.

Zhu Bajie
by fernortner February 22, 2009 9:57 AM PST
I'm impressed with the insight and intelligence demonstrated in many of these posts. Wish some of you would run for Congress and displace the common sense vacuum. The downside is, without campaign finance reform, you'd find yourselves spending most of your time pandering to your support groups by advancing such absurd legislation. Like the present set of clowns.
Reply to this comment
by mbmpdx February 22, 2009 10:42 AM PST
Texas is INDEED a "whole other country" as they advertise :-( But regardless, all we can do is write write write to our reps/senators/governors, etc and try to convince them that Yes, this is something the USSR does and not the US (until lately it seems anyway), and Yes there are a dozen other/better/legal ways to be tackling this problem. There is much debate about whether this is really such a big problem or just a news bite that keeps morality and "do gooders" in the spotlight. Some politicians try there best with good intent (beware of that ALWAYS!) but when they know ZERO about IT, this is sadly what we get. What's really sad is that so many people blindly think this is a good idea! Voice your opinions to your reps/senators or else we'll quickly become the U.S.S.A.
Reply to this comment
by DesertCruiser February 22, 2009 12:56 PM PST
Given the lack of logic of the legislators authoring these two bills, I'm amazed that they are not going after the Camera makers; Kodak; manufacturers of digital memory sticks, & hard drives used to store any questionable materials. Or, how about the miners of copper used to make the CAT5 cables used to transmit such morally deviant content?

We have been taken to a point of Texas being the fear factory of the world. "W" should feel right back at home.

Hey America, time to wake up while we can still be called Americans.
Reply to this comment
by applehazelnut February 22, 2009 3:15 PM PST
They're going to FUND this mandate right? It'll cost about 1.5 trillion dollars to update all the WIFI routers in America into mini computers with hard drives. They ARE going to fund it right?
Reply to this comment
by flhu February 23, 2009 7:28 AM PST
This is a classic case of people who have no idea about what they're governing making a law, at best, wholly impossible to implement; at worst, highly restrictive to the general public ...and in either case, totally ineffectual, with a "IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!" tag so that these Repubs can point fingers and any politician who votes against this hair-brained scheme as protecting child rapists.

Just wait for the tag-line: "You're either for this law, or for exploiting children!"
Reply to this comment
by Dalkorian February 23, 2009 9:08 AM PST
THIS is why retardicans no longer have any real power in our government. We took our government back because retardicans are more dangerous than terrorists are - in fact I'd argue that retardicans ARE terrorists!
Reply to this comment
Showing 1 of 2 pages (40 Comments)
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