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November 24, 2008 4:00 AM PST

For Black Friday, shades of gray

by Erica Ogg

Update, Monday 7:08 a.m. PST: Added information on Wal-Mart's Black Friday deals.

Usually Black Friday is a good time of year for consumers and retailers. It's when retailers get "in the black" by getting rid of a lot of excess inventory through offering drastic discounts.

Black Friday

This year is different. The economy has crumbled, consumers plan on spending less, and at least for those shopping for electronics, there are fewer viable options with many Circuit City stores set to close.

Some bargain hunters have complained that, so far, they haven't seen as many great deals as they're used to this time of year as the circular Black Friday ads for major retailers get leaked ahead of time.

CNET News caught up with some retail and Black Friday specialists to ask them if and where good deals can be found this season.

For electronics, the best deals may not be found at the Best Buys and Wal-Marts of the world this year, says Daniel de Grandpre, CEO of Dealnews, a bargain-tracking site. He recommends regional competitors to the international chains. "Look towards MicroCenter, Fry's Electronics, Meijer, and others for better Black Friday deals. MicroCenter's weekend sale has some outstanding deals."

There will also be great deals on the Web. Not just online-only retailers like Newegg.com and Amazon.com, but the Web sites of your favorite stores, too. All major retailers with Web stores maintain different inventories for their brick-and-mortar and online outlets, and will try to entice customers with "Web only" discounts.

A lot more sites will be enticing consumers with offers of free shipping this year. "Free shipping will be prevalent," as will specials on gift cards or offers of no sales tax, according to John Squire, chief strategy officer for Coremetrics, which tracks online retail sales. Also look for more online coupons and "minimum basket values," which are free goods or other enticements if you spend a certain amount of money.

Despite all of this, uncertainty is rampant among retailers.

"Shoppers are savvier than ever...If a retailer doesn't offer a suitable 'doorbuster' to drive traffic to its stores, buyers will look for someone else who does."
--Daniel de Grandpre, CEO, Dealnews

"In the past, these things were a lot easier to predict than this year," said Squire of Coremetrics. In years past, holiday sales were generally up 20 percent on Black Friday and the following Monday, and the top sales day has been easy to pinpoint as December 9.

"But since the drop of the stock market and complete falloff in consumer spending in October...it's hard to give distinct numbers for Black Friday or Cyber Monday this year."

But that doesn't mean holiday discounts won't be as generous this year. Dealnews' de Grandpre says being less aggressive on prices this year would be a risky strategy.

"Shoppers are savvier than ever. They have access to far more information than ever," by doing advance comparison shopping with Black Friday tracking sites, he said. "If a retailer doesn't offer a suitable 'doorbuster' to drive traffic to its stores, buyers will look for someone else who does."

Some retailers are doing Black Friday month specials, rather than confining their deep discounts to just the day following Thanksgiving.

Black Friday "is the best single day for bargains, without question. However, there are Black Friday-like deals happening now," according to de Grandpre. "(Beginning in October), we've already seen a Blu-ray player for $170 with $70 in free Blu-ray movies--akin to getting the player for $100. We've also seen a 42-inch 720p LCD HDTV for $600, and a Kingston 32GB USB Flash Drive for $30, both with free shipping."

Kmart, for example, officially started offering "Early Black Friday" deals on November 2 (registration required), in an attempt to entice buyers who are expected to be more conservative about their spending this holiday.

Still, the long Thanksgiving weekend is a key one for retailers looking to lure consumers in droves. On Monday, for instance, Wal-Mart touted its "three days of Black Friday," which it's kicking off with online deals starting Thursday ahead of in-store offerings Friday and Saturday.

The Consumer Electronics Association says consumers it's polled this year plan to spend $200 less on the holidays, and retailers were bracing early for reduced demand this season.

Clearly, buying will be down across the board for the holiday season, said Squire of CoreMetrics. The key is retailers being able to deliver the right mix of merchandise that price-conscious consumers want.

"For merchandisers that have a broad selection, and ones they can change around, they're going to do really well," he said. "Those that have erred on the side of luxury goods will struggle."

Erica Ogg is a CNET News reporter who covers Apple, HP, Dell, and other PC makers, as well as the consumer electronics industry. She's also one of the hosts of CNET News' Daily Podcast. In her non-work life, she's a history geek, a loyal Dodgers fan, and a mac-and-cheese connoisseur. E-mail Erica.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (35 Comments)
by mikeburek November 24, 2008 10:38 AM PST
I kinda get tired of everyone calling it "Black Friday" because that is just a buzz word in the retail sector, that people found out about and now everyone uses it. I still like to call it Day After Thanksgiving Sales. I can see how "Black Friday" is easier to say and type. But, I'm just not into throwing around buzz words.

Besides, "Day After Thanksgiving Sales" is much more descriptive. I don't go shopping that Friday just because I want the retailers to get some money. I go looking for the sales.

"Black Friday" refers to retailers selling enough goods to make actually money on their balance sheets.

The two ideas are opposite of each other. The sales help get people into a store, but the sale itself is not helping the store make any money. Many times, they loose money on those great bargain items.

This would indicate that the only way retailers can make money is by swindling customers with bait-and-switch tactics.
Reply to this comment
by BigGuns149 November 25, 2008 10:37 AM PST
Actually I object to the term "Black Friday" for another reason: in recent years a lot of stores not only didn't return their annual balance sheets black, but in some cases they never caught up to the red from the first hour of checkouts which were overwhelmingly red because they were selling things for >30% below their wholesale cost, nevermind cost plus overhead. A lot of the people buying the doorbusters end up losing the store money because they don't buy enough non-loss leader items to make their total purchases profitable.

Furthermore, except for the doorbuster sales a lot of the sales aren't really impressive. Many of the non-doorbuster sales are no more impressive than sales during a regular week it is just that there are more items on sale. A careful consumer could have gotten almost everything on a lot of these post thanksgiving day ads without waiting in a 1-4 hour long line just by watching the weekly ads in the the Sunday newspaper. Even the doorbuster items require a wait that pretty excessive. Especially in warmer climates some people are known to wait 8+ hours for a chance at 8-10 of these doorbusters. If you divide the number of hours by the money saved in some cases the savings per hour of waiting isn't impressive.
by bsharkey November 28, 2008 4:51 AM PST
Black Friday is basically a whole lot of B.S. and hooey, if you check out the deals even this year in a really down economy, they kind of suck.

at places like Best Buy you have people camping out for 3-4 days to try to save $50 on a laptop, of which each store has maybe 6 in stock. it's really gotten ridiculous
by The_Decider November 24, 2008 11:28 AM PST
Who really cares?

Most retailers are identical to everyone else.

Instead of people lining up to get fleeced, the retailers will just have to work a little for profits.

Hopefully it causes more than one to go belly up, we need a culling of the retail flock.
Reply to this comment
by Nate427 November 24, 2008 11:54 AM PST
Thanks so much for finally defining the word "Black Friday". Its used so much but I mistakenly thought it came from the dread of having to deal with so many customers and fight the traffic and crowds. It never occured to me that it referred to the companies balance sheet. Must have been my particular bias about avoiding large crowds and traffic jams. Ha, jeez guess it just demonstrates how misunderstandings get all sorts of things started.
Reply to this comment
by BigGuns149 November 25, 2008 10:41 AM PST
Black Friday in some cases is a misnomer. In recent years some stores lost so much money in the first hour of two that they barely make it back to black by the end of the day and some stores don't make it back to black at all.

Due to the lack of really huge loss leaders I doubt many stores will lose money on Black Friday, but I expect customers to be spending less money this year so even the most successful stores may not be significantly more profitable on this day.
by brettak81 November 24, 2008 12:50 PM PST
man the guy above really feels the need to make us all aware that he is too cool to used the term "Black Friday."

dude you're trying too hard to be different. how about you be a normal person and call it what normal people call it -- Black Friday.

as for the sales and deals this year...

Amazon has some really good ones going on. there's a $199 PS3 with Little Big Planet included. you just have to log in and cast your vote and then you're entered into a random drawing to be offered that price.
Reply to this comment
by the_iceman November 24, 2008 1:20 PM PST
mikeburek- Who cares what its called...get a life, ******.
Reply to this comment
by joevai52 November 24, 2008 1:51 PM PST
Actually, I don't know anyone who uses the term "black Friday." The only place I ever see it is on cnet.com and a few other internet sites. Therefore, the people who have started to use the term "black Friday" in recent days/months/years are actually the ones trying to be different or cool. That being said, I'm sure the term will become common soon enough.

By the way, people who go shopping at the crack of dawn (or earlier) on the day after Thanksgiving need to find a hobby or something, or maybe they could get up and make a great day-after-Thanksgiving breakfast and enjoy it with their families instead of going shopping. Most of the time when a store has some spectacular deal on a particular item (like a digital camera for $29 or a DVD player for $19), it is a terrible item that isn't even worth the low price people are paying for it. Everyone would be better off saving their money for a while (I know that's next to impossible for many people) and buying a better, more expensive "insert item name here."

I know more than a few people who put themselves into debt every winter because they don't want to come out and say they can't afford to buy a bunch of Christmas presents for everyone, and these supposed black Friday "deals" just encourage people to go out and spend more money that they don't have. I think the real reason the day after Thanksgiving is referred to as "black Friday" is because it is the beginning of a new form of plague...one whose primary symptom is a mountain of credit card debt.

But to those of you brave enough (or dumb enough) to shop on Friday: good luck!
Reply to this comment
by labazzo November 24, 2008 2:38 PM PST
I never go shopping on "Black Friday". I would perfer to shop online or very local stores to me and avoid the crowds. I also would rather save and get a better quality item for my money. I also believe some stores will inflate the retail price and say it is on sale. One store would be Kohls. They have things on sale every day, or suppose to be on sale. I told my wife this and she watched an item's retail price go up and they said it was on sale for 20%. No savings. With electronics, I will go to the manufacture web site to get the retail price first then go shopping. People must be careful in today's market.
Reply to this comment
by BigGuns149 November 25, 2008 10:48 AM PST
While there are consumer laws designed to prevent what you describe a LOT of store list "regular prices" that are above the MSRP in some cases and AFAIK these consumer laws have pretty lax enforcement. With electronics the biggest offender of this exaggerated sale is the ironically named Best Buy. Their regular weekly ads will say something is $15 off when the listed regular price is $5-10 ABOVE MSRP!

There are some real deals on Black Friday, but I have noticed this year that there are a number of retail stores that are advertising cheap items at or only slightly below MSRP and are relying upon customers to think that they are getting a great deal simply because it is Black Friday and people associate great deals with Black Friday.
by ScaryMonkey69 November 24, 2008 3:46 PM PST
Ahhhhh, the begining of the holiday shopping season!! Peace on Earth, Good Will to Men and trample any B*tch who gets in the way of getting a supposed "bargain" at a big retailer just so I can fool myself into thinking buying material goods for loved ones will make them love me even more.

No thanks. I pass.
Reply to this comment
by Get_Bent November 26, 2008 9:59 AM PST
Black Friday -- a "tribute" to greed and materialism....
by FUdfree November 24, 2008 4:09 PM PST
Have you ever seen a mattress that is not on sale? Mark up and Mark down = sales price.....get smart Sheeple!
Reply to this comment
by CyberBargaineer November 24, 2008 4:22 PM PST
If it wasn't a holiday for most people already, Black Friday should be a National Holiday. The whole nation will forget about how much they've lost in the stock market on Friday because after all everyone buys something on Black Friday. I remember my daughter leaving at 4:00 in the morning last year during a freak snowfall to grab her "jewels." I must say she bought lots of stuff for about $100.

If you want to stay warm, check out this site. It's full of online Black Friday and Cyber Monday Deals:

http://www.blackfridayads.me
Reply to this comment
by dctech08 November 24, 2008 6:36 PM PST
Black Friday is when items go on sale for a price that is closer to what the product is really worth.
Reply to this comment
by robertkillen November 24, 2008 8:14 PM PST
It's not called Black Friday because stores finally get "in the black" on that day. There is no way any store could stay in business if they lost money for eleven months and only made a profit the day after Thanksgiving.
Reply to this comment
by ErnieTheBear November 25, 2008 7:00 PM PST
Hey, there's this way-cool new service on the Internet, called "GOOGLE", you might have heard of it, and it will help you find out stuff before you start jabbering like a tool.

It's not the "only" day they make a profit, it's just the first day they become profitable for the whole year.

Google. It's your friend, Friend.
by bsharkey November 28, 2008 5:58 AM PST
"It's not the "only" day they make a profit, it's just the first day they become profitable for the whole year. "

the only problem with this, is that most companies report earnings on a quarterly basis...annual profits don't really amount to a whole hill of beans.

Black Friday is really a bunch of smoke and mirrors, with very few legitimate "deals" and most retailers will be hard pressed to turn a profit by Christmas if they're lucky, since every consumer will spend about $200 less this year. so if they thought last year was mediocre, look out, they ain't seen nothin yet.

not into it at all.
by Shaun822 November 24, 2008 9:31 PM PST
Honestly the deals on the Friday after Thanksgiving aren't worth the hassel for me to bother getting up at 4:00 am and dragging myself 35 or 40 minutes to fight with some of the most ignorant people I will meet all year for parking, products, spots in line, to save a couple dollars.
Reply to this comment
by AppleSuxLeo November 25, 2008 2:12 AM PST
When Obama takes over...it will really be black friday.
Reply to this comment
by asylump1 November 25, 2008 7:49 AM PST
Amen to that!!!
by AppleSuxLeo November 25, 2008 2:14 AM PST
Obama Friday ? Sort of Black Friday ?
Reply to this comment
by ddiddy415 November 25, 2008 2:22 AM PST
ERICA>>>>>>>>GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully we get Manny back
Reply to this comment
by ericaatnews November 25, 2008 10:45 AM PST
Fingers crossed. :)
by bsharkey November 28, 2008 8:47 AM PST
***? who the f cares???
by Microgates November 25, 2008 5:38 AM PST
I'm 30 years old and I've always heard it refered to as black Friday (I don't really care the reason why it's called as such!) But yeah, these stores need to kick it in to high gear, I have money burning a hole in my pocket! ;)
Reply to this comment
by asylump1 November 25, 2008 7:59 AM PST
Isn't it funny, lol. I'm happy and Thankful for the things I have, the people I have in my life, and just plain thankful to be alive. Thanksgiving, a day to be thankful. All of that goes right down the drain on friday. Noone cares about anyone anymore. If you get in the way you will be run down, lol. It's all about retailers anymore. I recall when I got a couple of Christmas gifts, I was very happy. Now it seems that kids are way too spoiled in, my eyes anyway. What happened to the day Christ was born? I've been reading on here and haven't seen the names Jesus or God anywhere. None of us would be here nor get to even go shopping if it weren't for us being created, so I give my thanks, right here, right now. Happy holidays to all.
Reply to this comment
by joevai52 November 25, 2008 12:27 PM PST
Christmas has been a national holiday for quite a while now, which means it is a secular, non-religious holiday, just like Labor day, Veterans' day, Thanksgiving day, New Year's day, Presidents' day, Memorial day, and Independence day (sorry if I forgot one). So you can blame the government for removing Jesus from Christmas day.

That being said, even though I am not in any way religious, it is sad to see that Christmas is no longer about Jesus' story for many people (even many supposed Christians). Instead it is about making wish-lists, shopping, and greed. Personally, I would be happy just getting to spend time with family and have a nice dinner. I could really go without the gift exchanging, especially amongst adults.
by ejeon1989 November 25, 2008 7:47 PM PST
I don't understand why these economic analysts are freaking out over a possible slow Black Friday shopping day. I mean, everyone should know that the most busiest shopping day of the year is actually the Saturday before Christmas; it has been for quite awhile (save for 2006 or 2007). Even if this year's Black Friday isn't too good, it shouldn't affect the shopping season all that much. People will still by the 50 in. HDTV, Xbox 360, or MacBook in droves come the week before Christmas. God, where the hell did these analysts get their degrees from?!
Reply to this comment
by bsharkey November 28, 2008 8:47 AM PST
very good point...
by Hockeyfan333 November 26, 2008 5:32 AM PST
Black Friday - The day I wear black and morn my bank account while my wife goes shopping. :)
Reply to this comment
by bsharkey November 28, 2008 5:45 AM PST
LOL very true hockey fan!!
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