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April 25, 2009 10:58 PM PDT

Are Apple's ads really better than Microsoft's?

by Chris Matyszczyk

As Apple celebrated, Microsoft canceled the company picnic.

As Apple announced results that beat expectations, Microsoft had its first ever year-over-year dip in sales .

As Apple announced a billion app downloads, Microsoft gritted its molars with a view to finally shaking a little of the smugness from Apple's chops.

So you might be wondering, as you sip your weekend cocktail and ponder why the NBA playoffs are even longer than the regular season, just how much each company's advertising might have contributed to these slightly diverse results.

In recent weeks, Microsoft has turned to a strategy of death by a thousand cuts (or, well, at least two) on the Apple brand. Macs are expensive. They're cool for drooling fools. Oh, and did we mention they're expensive?

While Apple has kept on steadily associating Microsoft with turgid, virus-infested slop made by the poorly dressed and pitiful.

It could have been a contender. Is the advertising to blame?

(Credit: CC Robert Nelson/Flickr)

But the difference between Apple and Microsoft advertising--and their brands--can only be told partially through these campaigns. The John Hodgman/Justin Long nipple-tweaking campaign is merely a portion of Apple's advertising. It doesn't define the brand. It enhances one aspect of it.

On the other hand, because Microsoft's "Laptop Hunter" campaign is aggressive and timely, it could become the only advertising output by which the brand is defined: We're cheaper, we're angry, and we're just not going to take it any more.

Microsoft unfortunately abdicated from giving its brand lasting positive emotional values when it walked away from the potentially forward-thinking and moving "Where Do You Want To Go Today?" campaign in 1996.

For reasons many, varied, and probably political, the company never found a campaign to better it. Advertising came and went. Consistency was non-existent. Contrast that with even the Hodgman/Long ads--they maintain the clean white backdrop enjoyed by so many other Apple ads. Whatever they say, they say Apple immediately.

If you asked anyone in the wider beyond to tell you about just one striking piece of Microsoft brand advertising in the last 13 years, you might find them looking as if they're trying to recall the name of their twelfth one-night stand.

In fact, the most memorable and, in my view, brilliant effort since then, was the second Seinfeld and Gates ad. Again, Microsoft walked away far too quickly.

In that same period, the Apple brand seems to have gained a strength that not everyone might have predicted. But how much is simply down to Apple's advertising?

It depends what you call advertising. Apple's whole culture is built around the understanding that its very best advertising isn't TV spots or print ads. It's the products.

Apple products are seen far more often than any of the company's ads. They can be admired, touched, played, and stroked. And the majority are visually striking.

The majority of Microsoft's products don't enjoy the same quality of exposure. And certainly not the same quality of design. Which means the onus on Microsoft's advertising should be to create far more drama and positive emotion around the brand. It hasn't happened.

The onus on Apple's advertising is largely to say: "Look at this. Isn't it cute? And cool. Apple? Of course, it's Apple. Who else did you think it was? Toshiba?"

Many of Apple's ads are nothing more than simple product demonstrations. Beautifully executed, celebrating their own simplicity, with often superbly chosen music. But still simple product demonstrations.

As different products are launched, each ad adds to the style and simplicity of the whole brand. And the values that Apple embraces--simplicity and style being just two--are ones that last through time. They matter to the customer.

It is difficult to name two Microsoft campaigns that actually built on each other. It is difficult to name two Microsoft campaigns that even reflected the same spirit, the same ethos, the same sense of a defined brand.

In fact, when Microsoft has been involved with brilliant pieces of work--such as this example for XBox (and, yes, I know this one was banned)- the viewer would be hard-pressed to feel that XBox is anything to do with Microsoft at all. There isn't even a Microsoft logo anywhere near it.

Can one imagine Apple launching any product, in any category, without its advertising identifying it, tonally and visually, as being an Apple product?

In the end, Microsoft, a brand that has considerable strength in the marketplace, seems to have become something of a diffused, defused blur in projecting its image. Microsoft built a business machine. But its brand advertising became like your demented auntie at Christmas: there, but not there.

Perhaps Windows 7 will be launched with a campaign that will lift the spirits and entice the parts that Microsoft advertising has mostly failed to reach for quite some time. Perhaps.

However, somewhere, somehow, the potential strengths of the Microsoft brand have not been projected by advertising. There seems to have been no consistent strategy, no sense, even, of what emotional values the brand should represent.

And now a company that has such a large market share is playing image catch-up. Which is really quite odd.

Chris Matyszczyk is an award-winning creative director who advises major corporations on content creation and marketing. He brings an irreverent, sarcastic, and sometimes ironic voice to the tech world. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET.
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by seven7dust April 26, 2009 12:34 AM PDT
both ad campaigns don't really work
but some of Apple's ads are Funny at least
Reply to this comment
by pithenumber April 26, 2009 4:19 PM PDT
for once I agree with you
by setjeff15081947 April 26, 2009 7:06 PM PDT
For the most part, Apple advertising, and their eye-candy designs, have always appealed to me. I must be a coward, or a masochist, because I continue to purchase, and wrestle with, Windows-based computers. "seven7dust", can you assist me? Will you? Is there a 12-step program for those addicted to Windows-based computing? I hope the New York Times Moderator is not working this site; she/he will probably remove this reply as well. And I'm not making a "Personal Attack" here, so please do not remove this reply.
by seven7dust April 26, 2009 8:39 PM PDT
@setjeff
Windows is for people with high levels of patience
or others who r just ignorant of the alternatives
Switching to a Mac has definitely improved my health
all I can say is just make the switch there's always bootcamp as a insurance policy
by Sabroson April 26, 2009 10:16 PM PDT
The difference between Apple and Microsoft when it comes to the Ads is that Apple plans their ads carefully, and Microsoft flies by the seat of their pants.

To me this reflects the very nature of both companies, I imagine Microsoft full of chaos, too many employees with too many conflicting ideas ... (reminds me when I used to work for AT&T Bell Labs) and Apple with just the right amount of workforce, all moving in one direction in harmony.

Just by looking at the CEOs of each of these companies you can see which one is a crazy moron and which one is the real deal. I am not going to point out which one is the moron ... but if you do not know .. just watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y89wBYVHkY4
by Herbal Ed April 27, 2009 12:40 AM PDT
May not work for you .... but, judging by Apple's sales, they sure work for millions of others. I guess they aren't as cleaver as you.
by Seaspray0 April 27, 2009 9:05 AM PDT
I will partially dissagree with you sevendust. The iphone ads are not the same as the computer ads. Those are the 1 group of ads that actually show the product being used to a good extent (although breifly to fit into the commercial time slot). I find the iphone ads very effective. The computer ads don't work at all for me (a parody on people is in no way truthful or informative about products, and the microsoft ads do not show much on features either). I recommend you take a look at some of the iphone ads, and you might actually agree with me (just the iphone ads).
by myles taylor April 27, 2009 11:16 AM PDT
How do they not work? How do we determine what works and what doesn't? I think Apple's ads are considered a great success and it's too early in the Microsoft ad campaign (the current one) to see if it's working.
by seven7dust April 27, 2009 6:00 PM PDT
I was actually taking about the computer ads
I agree that the iPhone iPod touch ads are awesome!
by t8 April 26, 2009 3:45 AM PDT
Apple are synonymous with style.
Microsoft is synonymous with Office and Windows.
Look at these 2 products.
They are both bloated, and virus friendly.
People begrudgingly use these products for one reason or another. such as their employer forces them to use Windows and Office or a customer wants to use a program that only runs on Windows. The biggest one is that Windows comes when you buy a new PC.

So when it comes to choice, people like to choose style when they are not being forced to use something they don't like.

Microsoft not using their name with Zune and Xbox, is a good thing. Because all that Microsoft baggage would only be appended to these products if the name Microsoft is used.

The small device market is huge and Apple have more going for them in that paradigm than big fat Microbloat.
Reply to this comment
by goodspeed8701 April 26, 2009 11:56 AM PDT
YOU ARE THE BIGGEST FOOL ON EARTH. SONY PLAYSTATION 3 MICROSOFT XBOX360 ALL THIS PRODUCT HAVE THE COMPANY NAME ON IT.
by Rolker April 26, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
"The biggest one is that Windows comes when you buy a new PC"

And what? A Mac doesn't come with OS X pre-installed on it?
At least on a PC you can install Linux/Ubuntu instead, if you like.
This concept of Apple being stylish while a PC isn't is incorrect. There are several companies that have beautiful laptops, which don't fall short from any "stylish" Apple PC.
I'm happy to say that in the PC world there are much more choices than in the Mac world. Different companies, verity of OSes, etc. Same for MP3 players and cell phones. Just look around and see.
Apple's advertisements seem to be more effective than MS, but this is due to the fact that MS is a software company in regard to the PC world. Apple is a software AND hardware provider. MS fault was that it got into the hardware "war", when it doesn't manufacture the PC hardware. But you can understand why it supports the hardware that runs their software...
by SeizeCTRL April 26, 2009 1:02 PM PDT
And in other news, people downloading warez versions of iLife and iWork are powering the iBotnet!
by dr23flavors April 26, 2009 1:28 PM PDT
@Rolker

Every mac can have any os installed on it. PCs cannot have OS X on it. There are also several stylish laptops, dell adamo, but when compared to macs they fall short on their power capabilities. Macs are beautiful, powerful, and fun machines.
by monkeyfun14 April 26, 2009 2:46 PM PDT
"People begrudgingly use these products for one reason or another. such as their employer forces them to use Windows and Office or a customer wants to use a program that only runs on Windows. The biggest one is that Windows comes when you buy a new PC."

People don't want linux this is proven.

Did Microsoft hold a gun to anyones head and forced them to go Windows over Mac? No.

Unless the work place makes up 90% of the computer population now.
by ZetaZeta_ April 26, 2009 3:13 PM PDT
dr23flavors: "PCs cannot have OS X on it"

Could you imagine the uproar if Microsoft denied Macintosh computers the ability to install Windows?
by Spartan_458 April 26, 2009 3:48 PM PDT
@Zeta

You're completely right. There's a reason that Macs work "better" than Windows. OSX only has to be supported on four or five different machines. Windows and Linux support hundreds or thousands. Congrats to Microsoft for making an OS that runs well and works on so many configurations. They've got the much harder job, and by fair comparison, they've done much better.
by seven7dust April 26, 2009 8:48 PM PDT
@Spartan_458
when I Buy a Computer I'm not looking to congratulate a Company for making something run well on many configs
All I care is if it runs well on my config and it does so with little problems !
and I think most people are the same !

The reason MS choose to be compatible with everything was to prevent competition !
think about it for a second ! Yes it has benefited the customers but has done so at the cost of zero Competition !
Hardware sells software not the other way around !
by artstate April 26, 2009 9:33 PM PDT
@dr23flavors

PC's don't run mac osx because apple refuses to allow any other computer maker to install it, but otherwise, a dell could run osx without any issues.

the dell adamo also defeats it's competitor: the macbook air.... adamo definitely has the edge on performance and it looks good too. i still wouldn't buy one though, rather have a proper 15 inch laptop.
(just clarifying these 2 points, the rest isn't directed to u. lol.)

Plenty of other companies will beat apple on desktop and laptop performance, some even leave apple miles and miles behind, however, Apple still finds ways to charm its customers and that's one of the thinks that makes it a good/successful company. What i think is that the competition between Mac and PC has just become quite ridiculous. I'm all for healthy rivalry between companies, nothing else could get us better products faster (aka Leopard and Windows 7, which i think are both pretty ******* good), the only problem is that now you see people pointing fingers at other people for their choice of OS while at the same time using biased arguments to butcher the competing products. I say computer users should admire the competition's innovations and look forward to what their choice company will come up with to strike back. It's a more exciting way to deal with these things.
by seven7dust April 27, 2009 3:03 AM PDT
@ artstate
do you really belive that the adamo will outperform the macbook air ?
you might want to read some reviews or check some specs !
the macbook not only has a faster processor but a faster video card as well
and as a ultraportable the Adamo fails hard because of the low battery life of 2 hrs
compared that to 5 hrs for the macbook air !
seriously comparing the Adamo to the Macbook air is a insult
it worse in every way possible and get this it's more expensive !

and as far as performance goes specs are not everything
OSX is better designed and optimised operating system
it does wonders with even modest specs
instead of talking the talk
How about you find me a notebook similar to the 999$ macbook
with similar performance {vista needs better specs} and 5 hrs of batterylife

I agree that certain products don't get you the best perfrmance for the price
but almost always they are better built come with a better operating system than the comparing Pcs
and will also fetch you a decent resale price
which is the reason for everyone's Mac loyalty even in these times !
See more comment replies
by deanbvfx April 26, 2009 6:32 AM PDT
I'd say the "I'm a PC" ad's are pretty memorable from MS's side.
Most people I know find them to be more positive, whereas Apple's "I'm a Mac" ad's seem to them to be more political campaign's, picking at what's wrong with the opponent while not saying what's right with you.
The Mac ad's are instantly recognizable but after however many year's they've been running I've not known anyone buy a Mac, so as advert's to sell a product they don't seem to be working, at least for most of my friends and family member's.
Reply to this comment
by droslovinia April 26, 2009 10:54 AM PDT
I'm probably not the only one, but I'm just amazed to hear from someone who doesn't know anyone who owns a Mac of any sort, any kind of iPod, an iPhone, nor has ever downloaded content from iTunes. That's really odd, considering Apple's advertising budget and market penetration.
by docster87 April 26, 2009 11:21 AM PDT
I bought a Mac years ago. Not because of ads. Not because I knew anything about OSX... Mainly, after suffering through Windows 3.0, 3.1, win95, win98, and win_me - I was just so sick of microsoft that I needed to try something different. Wish I had given up on MS earlier. So while Apple won me, they didn't win me as much as Microsoft lost me.
by goodspeed8701 April 26, 2009 12:02 PM PDT
I ACTUALLY GAVE UP ON MAC. NOT NICE TO BUY A COMPUTER WITH SO MUCH MONEY AND STILL NEED TO BUY A WINDOWS SOFTWARE SO THAT I CAN HAVE A COMPLETE COMPUTER. MY HP TOUCH SMART IS ALL I NEED WITH MY WINDOWS 7 THAT I MUST BUY. IT WORKS PERFECTLY AND I DONT NEED NO DUAL BOOTING. ITS 1 OPERATING SYSTEM AND ITS COMPLETE. NOT TO GET OS X AND STILL HAVE TO BUY WINDOWS. AND NOW I ENJOY BLURAY
by Nenicirene April 26, 2009 12:45 PM PDT
One of the great features you appear to have lost in you r move away from the Mac is the ability to use lowercase letters. I didn't know Windows only supported uppercase?
by SeizeCTRL April 26, 2009 1:04 PM PDT
goodspeed, maybe you should have bought a device that came with a CAPS LOCK key... oh wait, it looks like you already DID!
by ahalemano April 26, 2009 3:41 PM PDT
"So while Apple won me, they didn't win me as much as Microsoft lost me." - docster87

Nicely stated. I couldn't agree with you more. As a systems analyst, over the course of the past 17 years I've seen and been through it all. At one point, I was a huge Microsoft advocate. As a proponent of the world's number one software developer, I had my hands in everything Microsoft. Whether it was networking, software development, PC building, beta testing, et al., I was all over it.

Now, as I've turned the page to another chapter in my life, I look back at my accomplishments with regard to the MS-Verse and shake my head with disappointment. I don't consider myself a Microsoft basher but it's difficult to make an unbiased statement about the company when you see the history associated with it.

I think my first real wake up call was back when Microsoft forced Citrix into an agreement that either put the Terminal Service styled company out of business or had them paying huge royalties on NT 4.0 licenses. Of course, this is just one example of many extortion style business practices that Microsoft has conducted over the years. In any case, it definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

With regard to Apple, I for one didn't buy my first Apple product based on a wildly successful ad campaign. I bought it based on insight and experience. While I do appreciate Apple's aesthetic designs in their products, I'm not a big form over function kind of guy. I was enticed by the fact that Mac OSX is based on the UNIX kernel. For those of us who have done any kind of research or has any kind of experience in the contrasted differences between the Windows kernel and the UNIX kernel, would know that one was designed from the ground up with security in mind and the other simply is not.

While Microsoft can go on doting about the security in Vista and Windows 7, there's a clear delineation between the two OSes. The fact that Microsoft's virus issues is a direct result of them merging the web browser with the OS as a means of taking out Netscape Navigator -way back when, it's funny to say the least (and people wonder how worms are able to tunnel through Microsoft's defenses - whuh?). For those of us in the IT industry, the weekly patches to our servers and workstations is an absolute necessity, but somehow it feels like a cruel joke.

On a final note, I revel in the fact that Apple is a supporter of the Open Source Community. The fact that Microsoft continually snubs Open Source projects as a means of protecting the vested interest of their business bottom line (their model after all is based on software development), speaks volumes about the company.

Suffice to say, "Apple...didn't win me as much as Microsoft lost me."
by appleuser56 April 26, 2009 3:51 PM PDT
Ok I had to join cnet just to answer deanbvfx. We have a small business that used window based machines for 14 years. We were constantly losing work time b/c of problems with Windows. We used to buy a program b/c it promised to do something, only to find out it doesn't work. We would spend tens of thousands of dollars fighting either imagined or real security threats. Then came Vista. What a nightmare. Then one day after spending hours to some customer support person, I made a brilliant decision. I threw out all our window machines and bot Apples. It was one of best moves I have ever made. We no longer spend thousands on security. We no longer crash and have no fear that a program won't work. New employees take to the Apples so much sooner than Window machines b/c they are intuitive. Our employees are actually much more productive using the Apples. Even employees that said they were afraid to using Apples fell in love with them and have bot their own for home use. Our Apples may cost more up front, but they have saved us many times their higher initial cost. We have no problem paying for Apples b/c from the greater productivity we get, with the much greater reliability they are actually cheap!
by HAB49 April 26, 2009 5:27 PM PDT
I agree. There is nothing about the MAC ads that sells me their product.
by dgutf April 26, 2009 6:29 PM PDT
appleuser56-

Do Macs come with spell check?
by deanbvfx April 26, 2009 7:48 PM PDT
@droslovinia - Oh a fair few have bought Ipod's. I didn't' say ALL of Apple's advertising hadn't worked, just their Mac ad's.

And appleuser56 apart from not using a spell checker, you went through all that effort just to tell me your 'company' (I'm assuming Apple) bought Macs? Which I never stated they were crappy for company use, just I don't think their ads are massively effective.

My main Mac exposure is through some of my Uni work, and they don't give a good impression, they have difficulty logging on, hit n miss on reading external drives (they even corrupted my portable drive once) and I see the rainbow ball more time's than my productivity would like. Mac's are also appalling for dual screen use. I understand some issue's could be through bad technicians but the Fedora n Window's labs run pretty well (well the XP machines are pretty long in the tooth I suppose)
See more comment replies
by CBattery April 26, 2009 7:38 AM PDT
"Many of Apple's ads are nothing more than simple product demonstrations. Beautifully executed, celebrating their own simplicity, with often superbly-chosen music. But still simple product demonstrations. "

That was a confusing comment. The only Apple ads I remember seeing were merely anti-Windows FUD spreading dishonest and misleading information. Apple has the reputation is does not because of advertising but because of selective pricing and a religious following that insists it's products are perfect and superior in every way. For normal peope it's like listening to your metro brother-in-law go on and on about his latest Gucci watch when all you want is to know when soccer practice is. And the higher Apple prices their products the more alluring they become, after all, you get what you pay for, right? And you're special so you deserve it. Personally I'm glad Microsoft finally decided to inject a does of reality into the conversation, I'm just curious why they let Apple run free with their nonsense for so long before finally doing something.
Reply to this comment
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 9:54 AM PDT
Only Get a Mac series (John Hodgeman Vs. Justin Long) poke fun at PC.

And they make PC guy awkward but somewhat adorable, and intentionally keep the Mac guy hip & snarky.

It worked.
by droslovinia April 26, 2009 10:59 AM PDT
So when IS Microsoft going to inject some reality into things? All I've seen is some misleading commercials for underpowered HP laptops. Is this going to be the same kind of reality they injected into things when they tricked people into using Vista?

I know that I waste my time all day supporting Microsoft's software, so I might have missed that "reality," but I missed out on all the "dishonest and misleading information" in the Mac ads, too.

At the end of the day, this article was about effective marketing, and whether you are a Mac, Windows, or Linux user, you have to admit that this is an area where Apple has arguably done a better job.
by Renegade Knight April 26, 2009 12:57 PM PDT
CBattery:

The iphone launched on simple product demonstration adds. People then tried to replicate the add and found that Apple didn't exaggerate anything. it worked that simply and that well.
by kojacked April 26, 2009 1:52 PM PDT
@RK:

Looks like the UK doesn't agree with your assessment that people could repeat what they saw in the 3G adds: http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/38016. While I think the iPhone is probably the best smartphone on the market right now I still think the Apple fanbois really need to try and find a more balanced life...
by monkeyfun14 April 26, 2009 2:49 PM PDT
@Renegade

You willl find that the EU will disagree with you.
by rouse51 April 26, 2009 3:37 PM PDT
Have you not seen the Iphone and Itouch ads? What I do see in Microsoft is a whole lot of advertisement for HP with a bunch of the dumbest people on the planet. The guy who know what he wants, a small compact PC with long battery live picking up a huge HP with only three hours of battery life. If microsoft doing something is an idiot running around saying apples all about looks and not computer power, then microsoft needs to read that the fastes PC running Vista is a Mac.
by Alphaman63 April 26, 2009 9:11 PM PDT
@CBattery, you said "The only Apple ads I remember seeing were merely anti-Windows FUD spreading dishonest and misleading information." It sounds like you only remember the ones that helped you hate Apple more, but missed all the positive ads. Things like the ads talking about new features in iLife, how Apple is #1 on college campuses, Time Machine, how green the new MacBooks are, how well iMovie works, and the free Genius Bar have been out there for years.

Sure, Apple will rip on Microsoft, but that's part of advertising -- show your strengths and your competitors' weaknesses. If you choose to only remember the ones calling out the competitor's weaknesses, then I'd say you're not being impartial. Your other "Gucci" and "reality" comments reinforce that opinion.

I like the Apple ads, for the most part. I wish Microsoft would come up with something as ingenious and consistent as the Apple ads. Chris' article is spot on.
by thelemurking April 28, 2009 10:07 AM PDT
I highly doubt the claims that a Mac runs Vista faster than a PC. I would love to see one of those Mac's go up against my PC running Vista.
by Mark_Anderson April 28, 2009 12:01 PM PDT
@lemurking

It's more ignorance I'm afraid - PC World did a review of the then Macbook Pro in 2007 when it did indeed run Vista faster than any other tested laptop. Not really a surprise since it was also the most powerful x86 architecture PC they had tested. However, it was neither the fastest available at the time (merely the fastest tested) and even that title lasted a couple of months until PC World tested the equivalent - or better - spec'd Windows laptops available.

Silly fanboys who spout this rubbish are just an embarrassment to most Apple users.
by sartor1 April 26, 2009 9:38 AM PDT
I didn't read the article. I just think it's silly to ask the question whose ads are better... DOH!
Reply to this comment
by pxlpusher April 26, 2009 2:06 PM PDT
Wow. Thanks for contributing. Your insight is breathtaking.
by Herbal Ed April 27, 2009 1:03 AM PDT
It's even sillier to comment on an article you didn't read.
by Seaspray0 April 27, 2009 9:24 AM PDT
So I guess that makes it silly to reply to the guy who commented on the article without reading it... DOH! Silly me.
by nopinktoday April 26, 2009 9:50 AM PDT
I like the Apple ads better, 'cause they sorta make me chuckle. Though it doesn't affect the way I look at both a PC and a Mac. They both have pros and cons and that's the way I'm leaving it.
Reply to this comment
by Bohica55 April 27, 2009 4:55 AM PDT
You are certainly right about the Apple ads, they do make you chuckle, just like reading the comics. Then I return to my network of 5 or 6 PCs running variations of XP and continue to work in OpenOffice, and do a lot of video and still work on reasonably priced non-Microshaft programs. The PCs are tuned up and minus the crapware that is picked up over time and I have not seen a BSOD or crashed in months. Using some of the best security which can be obtained at NO COST, I just coast along and watch the fools fight it out. Apple is alright, but after using one at work for 2 years, was vastly underimpressed, and have friends who have had the same experience.
I wouldn't go out and buy one, especially when I run XP with no problems and have a headache free time because I just put a little effort into configurations that improve performance.
by zarrik April 26, 2009 9:52 AM PDT
Some of the Apple ads are good and some of them are really lame. Apple's ads really have no substance -- Apple is playing the role of the schoolyard bully picking on someone else while failing to address their own insecurities.
Reply to this comment
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 10:03 AM PDT
Except when a *bully* constantly pick on the mafia godfather. He become heroic & just somehow, more like David vs. Goliath.
by AppleSuxLeo April 26, 2009 10:47 AM PDT
You are right. Well said. Their ads seem quite childish to me.
by pxlpusher April 26, 2009 2:15 PM PDT
AppleSuxLeo, childish in what way? And to you and OP, what are your opinions based on? Each of the Hodgman/Long ads addresses a single point - giving Apple's side and PC's side (whether you agree with these sides is beside the point) - that most people think of when purchasing computers. How is this childish or lacking substance? Simple doesn't mean lacking substance. If anything, isn't Microsoft being childish using children to pitch their photo app in recent ads?
by monkeyfun14 April 26, 2009 2:50 PM PDT
@pxlpusher

You'll learn children and animals sell products take a marketing class.
by seven7dust April 26, 2009 9:02 PM PDT
it's a dog eat dog world out there and
when Fighting against a Monopoly wat better way
there's only so much catchy music and Slick Design can Do
also the humor is a nice way to bring the attention of people !

Although the ads dont really work for me, they might help some people !
I prefer the Macbook air kind of ads
by chonnom April 27, 2009 8:27 AM PDT
@seven7dust

"when Fighting against a Monopoly wat better way"

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines "monopoly" as, "exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action". Unless I am woefully uninformed there are no laws in place that ensure Microsoft's presence in the market place, supply is derived from a number of global sources (many of which Apple uses as well), and there is no concerted action to make themselves the sole supplier of any good or service. The company offers a product and people buy it.

I think the misconception arises from the fact that Microsoft is a software manufacturer while Apple attempts to be both a software AND a hardware supplier. It's simply a difference of business models; Microsoft makes deals with computer manufacturers to sell their product on their machines; much the same as your office may only sale Coke or Pepsi products in the vending machines. Apple, on the other hand, limits themselves by forcing potential consumers to purchase a pre-packaged product that is both hardware and software. The result is a much higher price point than a PC. I don't know what sort of organization many of you work for but in most of the business world, price point matters when purchasing equipment; heck, even the space-shuttle is built by the lowest bidder (scary I know).

Why do people generally purchase more PCs than MACs? Human nature. People like the comfortable and familiar; they work with a PC all day and become used to operating one. Price point matters for most consumers as well; if you look at two comparable machines and one is several hundred dollars cheaper, the average person will buy the cheaper one. Most people only use their computer to do comparatively light computing (ie. surfing the internet, e-mailing, viewing media) and both a PC or MAC would serve them well in this regard as the user will experience the same result.

My way of thinking is why should I pay so much more for a product that does exactly the same thing and has the same equipment inside it? I would rather not. I know of noone in my group of friends or family that has experienced a great deal of trouble with viruses or crashes but then none of us endanger our property by taking unnecessary risks (visiting pornographic sites or piracy). I am still operating on my initial installation of Vista and have never had a crash or any serious problem. If my PC breaks, I can buy a new one and still be spending less than I would for a MAC.

Just my 2 cents on this whole nonsense. It's all preference and available capital.
by pithenumber April 27, 2009 12:59 PM PDT
@chonnom
MS is a monopoly under what the US calls a monopoly
by monkeyfun14 April 27, 2009 1:49 PM PDT
@pi
That doesn't mean its a evil corporation..
by thelemurking April 28, 2009 10:14 AM PDT
@ sevendust...

Where's the monopoly at? If Microsoft's monopoly is in the OS, which I assume since they do not make PCs... then it's rather simple for Apple to compete. Sell an open version of OS X that runs on X86 hardware. There wouldn't be a need for hackintosh installs and Psystar if OS X was available for PCs. I've ran OS/2, BeOS, Linspire, Suse, Ubuntu and Kubuntu on my PCs. So it's not like my PC is obligated to run Windows. I get to pick what I want to install on it.

So if Apple and you are so concerned about a Microsoft monopoly in the OS market, then why not actually COMPETE with them. When you are in the business of solely selling the hardware, then you are not really competing in the OS market. What does Apple have to fear? Surely they have competence that OS X works as well as they proclaim, so let's see how well it works out in the wild?
by uptheironsrafi April 26, 2009 9:52 AM PDT
Microsoft, according to many of you, is just a company with bad products, which they manage to sell because of good marketing. And now, Microsoft has bad products and bad marketing, but still manages to sell millions. How did that happen? I think there is something really wrong here.
Reply to this comment
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 9:58 AM PDT
Microsoft *had* great product of its time.

Namely Office & Windows. And the market reward them with monopoly.

But now it's just a bloated behemoth which refuse to die, while making little & futile effort to change.
by pithenumber April 26, 2009 11:09 AM PDT
MS has horrid marketing
the I'm a PC ads proved this
what about the Mojave cr@p.the Laptop hunter ads made it even more obvious that MS marketing department isn't doing their job right

@AllenKids
try Windows 7, you'll see that MS *has* a great product
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 11:21 AM PDT
@pithenumber

I now running Leopard / Vista / Win 7100 /Ubuntu 9.04 simultaneously on several machines.

Win 7 is certain not the worst. Vista had that position firmly secured.

But a lot of major annoyances still stands out & I'm not even talking aesthetically.

For instance Windows Explorer just become more and more unusable. Also they still haven't fix the system wide searching/indexing performance issue.
by infinitely April 26, 2009 12:45 PM PDT
Who ever said Microsoft got where they are with good marketing? They got there by being superficially cheap, easy to pirate early on, and, most importantly, anti-competitive business practices once they had a monopoly.
by Renegade Knight April 26, 2009 1:00 PM PDT
I activly avoid MicroSoft where I can. Fact is, that even not wanting to use MicroSoft they have products that fill gaps that nobody else has. Plus they do have some good products even were they do have compettion. MS Money vs. Quicken toss a coin. Office trumps everthing else and I still use Lotus 123 and Word Pro.

MS has done a lot to earn the strong dislike of them as a company.
by empirestatebuddy April 26, 2009 4:28 PM PDT
Apple has been saying that it's superior to Microsoft/Windows for over 20 years now, but... if that were really true, wouldn't Apple have reached 10% market share by now? The reality is that Apple is still around today because Microsoft threw them a lifeline in the mid-90s by creating an Office Suite for them. Apple was on the verge of bankruptcy.

With that said... Apple has made a dramatic comeback in the last 8 years--thanks to the stewardship of Steve Jobs. There's no denying Apple is someone to be reckoned with. But so is Microsoft... which still dominates OS, Office software and web browsing... even against some impressive competition. There really is a place in this universe for both. Not all of Microsoft's products junk. And not all of Apple's are heaven-sent... after all, the Mac's most popular software program is... Microsoft Office.
by OS11 April 27, 2009 7:06 AM PDT
@empirestatebuddy

incorrect... the reason Apple only has the upper 10% of the PC market is because Steve Jobs left in 1985 to form NeXT, so it's hard to say what would have happened to Microsoft if that had not happened. Microsoft had no choice but to pay for the QuickTime thefts in 1997. While Apple certainly didn't need the money (it had $1.2 Billion in cash at the time) but Microsoft did the right thing and paid Apple for stealing their code. and ah, Apple was never near bankruptcy, that was a pure urban myth.

A history lesson for you... Microsoft Office began on the Macintosh, only later ported to the PC. Excel, PowerPoint, the GUI Word, were all Macintosh ONLY products since PCs weren't advanced enough to run them. so MS Office first appeared on Macs... not Windows.

And actually, iLife is far more popular than MS Office on the Mac... everyone realizes MS Office components are functionally obsolete because of the advent of the Web, so Office has been in decline for years... far less than 30% of Macs even use Office since the Web and the included Apps on Macs are far superior to MS Office.

Now you know!
by Seaspray0 April 27, 2009 9:43 AM PDT
"far superior". Everytime I hear that, I laugh. Along with "just works", they are two catchisms created by apple advertisers that could mean anything without having to prove anything. It's like saying Tide is a superior detergent because it just works. Well Duh! My coffee cup "just works" (it holds coffee).
by pithenumber April 27, 2009 1:10 PM PDT
@OS11
try doing real work with one of those online services or iWork or even openOffice and you'll prolly run out and buy yourself MS Office

for the record, I use MS Office in my Linux install under WINE

way back when, PC's were faster, but Macs had a GUI, either one could be more advanced
by slickuser April 26, 2009 10:18 AM PDT
From the beginning of PC days, if consumers had choice of operating systems, things would have been different.... They had only once choice: msdos and then windows.

Now, this legacy crap is running on most computers and there is a huge ecosystem around it. It is not that easy to get rid of it. It is not love of this crap, it is growing in sale.

It will take time. Linux and Mac are just started to make a dent..

I don't think Microsoft can keep their market intact for long time since change (switching to Mac) has started to happen and no one can stop it.
Reply to this comment
by Renegade Knight April 26, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
Dos, Apple II

Then Windows OS/2 and Mac

of those Windows and Mac won. OS/2 was better, more robust and stable and Windows won anyway. Mac was and still is the also ran though it's always been a fairly good OS.
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 1:38 PM PDT
@Renegade Knight

OS/2 lost mainly because MS screwed IBM royally.

Guess I do hold a grudge against Microsoft, hmmm, interesting...
by Mystickneon April 26, 2009 2:12 PM PDT
PC-DOS
DR-DOS
OS/2
Tenix
CP/M
...
They were out there, but Microsoft made an excellent marketing decision in the beginning by going directly to the manufacturers to distribute their product in situ. Back then, Microsoft had an excellent product. I came up on MS-DOS and it was a heck of a lot easier to use than Apple's DOS, and had a plethora of features not seen in Apple's world, including an advanced file system.

Even now, I do not have any problems with Vista. I have never had a crash. Is it a bit bloated with legacy runtimes? Absolutely. Unless you want to completely scrap backwards-compatibility you will always find this bloat.

What I see in Apple products is a Hello-Kitty user-friendliness that completely insulates the user from the gearworks behind the scenes. In this, Apple has succeeded in making a product for people whom don't wish to take the time to learn how learn how things work. Its like an inverse-niche market.

The reason you don't see viruses and the like for Mac is largely in the way they monopolize development tools and the like. Malicious code is malicious code, and every machine, regardless of the operating system, is vulnerable to it. It just takes the means and the will to execute, and why bother if hardly any businesses or governments use the OS?
by ahalemano April 26, 2009 4:03 PM PDT
"...regardless of the operating system, is vulnerable to it. It just takes the means and the will to execute, and why bother if hardly any businesses or governments use the OS?" - Mystickneon

This assertion is a lame cop out that we continually hear echoed in chat rooms, blogs, and public commentary sites such as this. Seriously, with all the hackers out there who despise Apple for being...well, Apple. You're telling me that every single one of them are sitting on their hands going, "We could write a virus that could take Apple down if we wanted to. But we won't..so blah!"

What kind of BS is this? Really, after hearing all the negative commentary from Microsoft advocates out there. Am I to believe that the reason why Mac's are nearly invulnerable to viruses (i.e. Confiker Worm) is because hackers choose not to write anything because of market share. Seriously? Does anybody want to talk about the UNIX kernel and how this factors in to the grand scheme of things when discussing viruses on a Mac?

Somebody please give me another reason other than "perceived" market share that would explain why my Macbook's performance and vulnerability against viruses is no different than it was the day I bought it over 2 years ago. While I hear a lot of smack from the Microsoft camp about Apple's vulnerabilities, for some reason it just doesn't get the same kind of press like Microsoft's inherent virus ladened problems. Oh yeah, I forgot, it all boils down to market share.
by pithenumber April 26, 2009 4:28 PM PDT
@ahelamano
it is harder to write worms virii and trojans for Mac OS due to its market share

the pirated iLife botnet proved it was possible though and that Mac OS is nearing the magic percentage of market share
by Seaspray0 April 27, 2009 9:50 AM PDT
Don't forget these..
TOS
BASIC
UNIX
by AppleSuxLeo April 26, 2009 10:31 AM PDT
I actually think Sprint trumped both of them with it`s fresh , new , brightly-colored NOW ads talking about their 3G/4G network.And the best part is it shows the Palm Pre at the end.
Reply to this comment
by sharmajunior April 26, 2009 10:40 AM PDT
What I see in Microsoft is a very slow dying giant. They have to pick themselves up and listen to the people. They should first of all address security in terms of viruses, malware etc. why should people have to buy additional protection to protect my pc. All I see coming out of them are band-aid fixes to some problem which gives way to another problem and an exploit. Overall I see Mac as a stable platform with very few vulnerabilities as compared to Microsoft software.

Now as more and more average users start to see the problems arising from basic software such as Office 2007, surely Mac ads are bound to work. They provide an alternative to weak stuff out in the market.
Reply to this comment
by pithenumber April 26, 2009 11:18 AM PDT
1. Security by obscurity, when Mac OS starts to become a profitable target for hackers, lets just hope that MS is still around so people can switch back. look at the hacking competitions, Apple is the first to fall.
2. you don't need to buy extra software, antivirus sw is free!
3. I bet my Linux install is more stable than your Mac
by kingsnoofer April 26, 2009 12:06 PM PDT
@pithenumber: Antivirus SW is free? Maybe the crap like avg and spybot....bleh. I wouldn't trust my PC's security to them. If you do then you don't know nearly as much about PC security as you obviously posture.
by sharmajunior April 26, 2009 12:27 PM PDT
Well, well, well; pithenumber

I have read many of your posts. All I see coming from you is egoistic attacks. I never attacked anyone (if you read my post carefully). All I voiced was my opinion. Yes, I do use Windows, a Mac and some variants of Linux. I know the ups and downs of each. Btw I hate to break this to you but most Macs that were hacked; the hacker were given a few parameters so that they can get something to start off with. I am not saying that a Mac is attack free but what I did say was that as of now, Windows machines are not stable enough in terms of security and other measures. All I see is band-aid fixes coming at the end of the month.

I have to use Office 2007 at work and I see various apps such as powerpoint, access, and at times word crash without any reason and without an error code. If you would like me to further elaborate on this, I'll do it in my next post.

If you have a nice Linux installation, Good for you. How does that, or how does one prove that their installation is more stable than another's. The fact is simple. You obviously use a limited number of apps that don't cause that many problems. I on the other hand use many apps some of them are high end apps (not including Office) that if a system lacks in either hardware or software (being a stable system), it will potentially cause a lot of financial damage. Some private apps require a stable system with a certain touch.
by pithenumber April 26, 2009 4:38 PM PDT
@kingsnoofer
I trust my Windows installs to AVG
no problems yet with any of them

@sharma
those bandaids are patches, Mac OS has them too

I use Ubuntu Linux for just about everything except gaming [though this is starting to change because of Win7]
so no, I'm not using a limited number of apps

if Mac OS X Server is so much more stable than a server flavour of Linux
may I ask the question of why so many huge server farms use Linux instead of MacOS Server
Apple uses Linux in some of its local sites

Linux>Windows XP/7>Mac OS>WinVista
by punterjoe April 26, 2009 10:41 AM PDT
It strikes me that MS & Apple are in slightly different businesses. Apple is a brand - like Lexus. Their logo is associated with hardware and the entire user experience. MS on the other hand is more like Exxon/Mobil. They make a vital component to the user experience, but contend with the blessing/curse of running with nearly every piece of hardware out there, so they have very little control of the user experience or people's perception. Maybe they can use this to their advantage much like Intel did, but I can't see them competing head to head with Apple because they're in a different aspect of the tech business.
Reply to this comment
by mbraynard April 26, 2009 8:51 PM PDT
Yes, but don't expect that to interrupt the author's mental masturbation here.

He's one of those advertising jackoffs who makes conjectures without and qualitative or quantitative evidence. MS got hurt badly by listening to this type of moron when they went with the Bill Gates / Jerry Seinfeld ads. No testing done there whatsoever.

The Mohave ads (despite being deceptive) and the Laptop Hunter ads were doubtlessly TESTED.
by JP-Peterson April 26, 2009 10:45 AM PDT
I'm a recent switcher (Oct '08). Although the ads kept the brand names in front of me, the hardware made the sale. I had never owned an iPod. I bought an iPod touch. I was amazed by the thing. I went to the Apple store and tried the computers. I bought a MacBook Pro and I'm kicking myself for not switching years before I did.

I have one piece of software I still use that's Windows only. I've got Windows 7 beta running in VirtualBox on my Mac.

It works just fine. It's nothing special. The taskbar is hauntingly like the dock on a Mac now. This OS is evolutionary not revolutionary from Microsoft. I don't see how they'll be able to push this new OS to anything more than a Vista like adoption rate.

I never owned a machine running Windows that I didn't like. I even "loved" a couple, and one of those ran the over maligned Vista.

I love my Mac more.
Reply to this comment
by Renegade Knight April 26, 2009 1:03 PM PDT
The doc was a rejected MS Idea. Like you I'm impressed by the touch. Don't realy like iPods though. Have a Mac Book and can't stand the thing's keyboard and some stupid design flaws (USB ports too close together for example). Next Mac will be a Hackintosh.
by msherer April 26, 2009 1:35 PM PDT
The Dock actually comes from NextStep. When you consider that much of Mac OS X comes from NextStep, you begin to realize how far ahead of its time it was.
by ZetaZeta_ April 26, 2009 3:39 PM PDT
I always felt OS X was clinging to GUI features for little to no reason at all. Like putting the menu of the window with focus at the top of the screen, or putting the window control buttons on the left instead of the right.

I never liked the personalization options of OS X or Windows. Windows did have uxtheme patching and a community there, but it's not nearly as personal as the customization of linux.
by wwsoftware April 26, 2009 7:08 PM PDT
ZetaZeta_ said:
"I always felt OS X was clinging to GUI features for little to no reason at all. Like putting the menu of the window with focus at the top of the screen, or putting the window control buttons on the left instead of the right."

I think you misunderstood the concept behind the menu bar at the top. The menu bar is associated with the running application, not a specific window. IMO, MS's model is broken in a number of ways (you ALWAYS have to have a window, inspector windows either need to be within another window, or breaks the interface, etc).
On the Mac (and NeXTSTEP), an app did not need to have a window, could have only one window, or could be a doc based app (managing multiple documents at the same time).
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 7:30 PM PDT
@wwsoftware

Agreed, Microsoft's "window inside a window inside a window" paradigm always gives the feeling similar to road rage.
by savvydude April 26, 2009 10:52 AM PDT
It's all geographics - Redmond vs. Silicon Valley. Microsoft is insulated and alone in a corner of Washington state while Apple is a strong player in the middle of the true digital universe.

Their respective campaigns shows the distinct difference.
Reply to this comment
by thelemurking April 28, 2009 10:22 AM PDT
If silicon valley is the true center of the digital universe, then why are all Apple products made in China ;)
by grtgrfx April 29, 2009 1:59 AM PDT
Same reason all HPs, Toshibas, Sonys, etc., are all made in China. Parts and workers are cheap.
by dmhallman April 26, 2009 10:57 AM PDT
"........ And the majority are visually striking" Sure, Apple products are visually striking. Clean and sterile, like a hospital or asylum. So if apple has their way we will all have electronics with clean lines and one button. And we will adopt the planetary silver jumpsuit dress code seen in countless sci-fi movies. No thanks.
Reply to this comment
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 11:10 AM PDT
Apple don't want monopoly. It's very clear. They sell premium products. Without *inferior* counterparts, Apple won't be the happier company anymore.

Market share centric thinking is not in their gene, if they ever get so arrogant thinking they can rule them all, Apple would fail, again, like they once did in the 90's.

Also pretending Apple will force minimalist style on you is just nonsense. It's like pretending legalize gay marriage will force a straight man to marry his best buddy.
by dmhallman April 26, 2009 11:29 AM PDT
No one said Apple is forcing anything on anyone. I don't own or use apple products. My HTC made Touch phone handles calls, music and PDA just like Apple's product, costs less and was available with touch screen 3 years before iPhone existed (thought I have upgraded to the recent touch pro). And I like my HP laptop - with Windows Vista and 7 in dual boot. They can't force it on me, I'm not interested.

To me moving to Apple is like moving backwards to the Commodore area of computing when people bought systems that were cool and popular with closed and controlled development of add-ons and compatibility just to have the next cool ecosystem take control junking the past investment.

Microsoft got us past all that by opening a wider world around Windows were many developers and system builders could be involved. Yes, that allows for cheap parts, malware and sloppy driver development. But is censorship of available cellphone applications and a gatekeeper of parts and partners what we really want to solve the issue? We will be left with one operating system and one system maker in the end. And you think Microsoft's control of one part is scary?

Saying Apple does not want a monopoly and blindly buying their products will not stop it from happening.
by tehrani625 April 26, 2009 11:31 AM PDT
I was just thinking about this last night. The whole vibe that you get off of apple is kinda like 1984. It also seems like the exact opposite of the commercial that apple aired a long time ago, ending in Think Different yet all their computers are the same. Its funny because PC's have a lot of variety.
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 11:37 AM PDT
Quote:

1."And we will adopt the planetary silver jumpsuit dress code seen in countless sci-fi movies. No thanks."

2."No one said Apple is forcing anything on anyone. "

Then DON'T freaking wear a Silver Jumpsuit for humanity's sake!

Do sometimes consider a black turtleneck though
by dmhallman April 26, 2009 11:46 AM PDT
That's right - "And we will adopt". We accept what Apple is turning us into. Not forced. Accepted. By lemmings anyway.
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 11:54 AM PDT
Do you have any reason to believe you yourself are particularly vulnerable to brainwashing... or what
by websterphreaky April 26, 2009 12:23 PM PDT
Real good English grammar, AllenKids; did you ever get past 2nd grade?? "Apple don't want monopoly." "Without *inferior* counterparts, Apple won't be the happier company anymore."

Proof Macs are for Stupid people that can't even form a proper sentence or write coherent English.
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 12:32 PM PDT
@ websterphreaky

Personal attack doesn't *prove* anything.

Playing grammar police while fun also can't rebuttal my point.

Are you trying to be cute?
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 12:39 PM PDT
@ To everyone else:

I do apologize for my poorly worded post.

English is not my first language, without the edit function, it's not like I can help afterwards.

Hopefuly I will get better at grammar with practice, like what I'm doing right now.
by Renegade Knight April 26, 2009 1:05 PM PDT
@AllenKids

Don't sell Apple short. They are a growth company. Just like everyone else in corporate America.
See more comment replies
by supoman April 26, 2009 11:23 AM PDT
I think the PC going to the future ad is priceless. It drive home the general argument /truth about PCs and it hits M$ right where it hurts.
Reply to this comment
by amitg1979 April 26, 2009 11:47 AM PDT
Someone could argue that the commercial is false advertising. What apple is saying is that their computers are perfect in every way and that people will never have a problem. If I buy a Mac and it randomly reboots just even once, and I can sue Apple for that commercial. No developer in their right mind would say that their programs are perfect. If that was the case why would they create patches. Actually just because you have to patch your OS should be enough of a reason to sue Apple for that commercial.
by Renegade Knight April 26, 2009 1:06 PM PDT
@amitg1979

My Macbook crashes & hanges. Programs stop responding. Surfing can hang and be slow. Mac is nowhere near close to perfect.
by amitg1979 April 26, 2009 1:53 PM PDT
@Renegade Knight

i do understand you are agreeing with me, so why would Apple put that commercial on the air then whey they are not impervious to having issues either? Maybe you can sue Apple for the commercial and have them pay for the Macbook? LOL. If MS did the same commercial, you could almost bet that there would be law suits all over the place.
by contentcreator--2008 April 27, 2009 7:47 AM PDT
The Apple ads are scurrilous --- at election time we all despise negative advertising of this kind. Apple is relying on innuendo. I use PCs and Macs all the time, have several of each in arms reach. Apple-written programs are more buggy (each time they re-write something it gets more bugs), and Apple is laughably behind in some areas. If Apple wants to produce ads that are factual and show things doing stuff, great (iPhone ads). But they should put a lid on their PC/Mac FUD ads, they are frequently wrong, at best a reflection of an apple monoculture, and do nothing but annoy. The future PC ad is particularly idiotic, I'd call it slander --- you make something up and claim it as fact.
by pithenumber April 26, 2009 11:31 AM PDT
its all about advertising
if it was about the quality of the product the order would be
[-]Linux Ubuntu
[-]Windows 7
[-]just about every other Linux flavour
[-]Windows XP
[-]Mac OS X [all]
[-]Windows Vista
Reply to this comment
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 11:47 AM PDT
Here is another man's OPINION:

1. OS X Leopard

2. Ubuntu Linux (Other distros generally rank rather low in the user friendly department)

3. Windows 7 (In fact still better for the starters than Ubuntu)

4 Windows XP (Would've been higher without that unbearably awful theme called Luna)

5 Windows Vista
by amitg1979 April 26, 2009 11:51 AM PDT
I have no problems with Vista, but that is probably because I am careful with what I install on it. I keep another computer to download/install applications so if I have a problem then i can just rebuild it. I think majority of OS issues are people downloading so much software that they are causing the bloat. Granted some issues is pc/mac issues and not human.
by JP-Peterson April 26, 2009 3:20 PM PDT
It's not all about advertising. The least comon denominator skill set of the general public comes into play as well.

Along with Windows 7, I have a Ubuntu machine set up in VirtualBox on my Mac. I like it. As far as mass market adoption is concerned? No way.

You've got to consider the "average" user. The "average" user is going to expect a completely polished GUI. The "average" user will wet the chair when they go to install something and terminal opens, even if all they'd need to do is type "run". Just like with cars, there are folks out there who couldn't change a flat tire to save their lives. They still drive.
by Seaspray0 April 27, 2009 11:14 AM PDT
And here's my opinion. We are all individuals and there is no one operating system that will be perfect for everyone. Each person will have their own judgement on what they think is best. That's how it should be.
by thelemurking April 28, 2009 10:36 AM PDT
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Vista... NOTHING! People just get annoyed at UAC because they like to click NEXT NEXT NEXT NEXT to install that cute little waterfall screensaver. But even OS X and Linux function the same way. Ubuntu won't let me install updates without verifying my password. I can't sudo get without SU and root password. So people used to just clicking right through installs see it as an obstacle, when it's really there to prevent them from doing something jackass stupid, like installing that cute little waterfall screensaver ;)

The only issue I have had ever with Vista was Nvidia drivers for my 7950gx2 card and those drivers were nortiously buggy. I don't blame Microsoft for Nvidia's crappy drivers. I simply reinstalled the drivers and all was good. Now I am on two 9800gtx+ cards in SLI and loving it! I've streamlined Vista down to 38 processes and it runs faster than XP ever did. It installed with around 70 processes, most which were not needed and just wasted time and resources.

I'm going with this list

Ubuntu 9.04 (freaking AWESOME)
Windows 7
Vista tied with OS X
XP/2000
Amiga (I still love my old Amiga damnit hehe)
by tehrani625 April 26, 2009 11:46 AM PDT
First: the next person I meet who claims that macs don't get viruses I will show them this article http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Symantec_Discovers_First_Ever_Mac_Botnet/551-101234-582.html
If they say anything other then sorry I will beat them half to death with my macbook.

Now, I will say that Apple has had a much better advertising campaign. They have a unified theme that is instantly recognizable. I really liked the "I'm a PC" adds, they had an upbeat tone and it was not poking fun at anyone, it just showed that PC users aren't nerds, they are normal people. I really liked the laptop hunters commercials seem really cheesy, but I did the exact same thing when I went to buy my PC. It would be cool if Microsoft put together a coherent theme that was prevalent in all of their adds. Also Microsoft does well as a monopoly because they don't do everything.
Reply to this comment
by Thomas, David April 26, 2009 12:03 PM PDT
MALWARE IS NOT A VIRUS

The article describes a PIRATED copy iWork, that had been modified to include malware. The only way to get this "software" was to illegally download it from a dubious source and install it yourself!

Did you even read the article? If you did, were you not able to understand it?!
by mrcknievel April 26, 2009 12:07 PM PDT
It's night and day really. Apple is hawking one distinct product at any given time. Microsoft is, by nature, unable to do the same in MOST situations. Apple can show you pretty little macbooks...Microsoft has to sell plain jane Lenovo boxes and style over substance Sony boxes....WITHOUT directly hawking for Sony or HP or Dell or, etc. Honestly, IMO the most impressive commercials Microsoft was running prior to the I'm a PC ads were the Zune commercials and they simply don't make enough of those. That's a case of an equally attractive product, with IMO a better pricing model (subscription based) that isn't being pushed aggressively enough.
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 12:15 PM PDT
@mrcknievel

Yeah I like the Zune ads too.

Rather a shame to see the actually product struggling while in fact there is nothing horribly wrong about it.

iPod + iTunes really is a formidable formula.
by Renegade Knight April 26, 2009 1:09 PM PDT
@AllenKids

True enough about iTunes and iPod. I have to work hard to keep my family from screwing up everthing by using them. Then when they do anyway I have to remind them why their ACC files don't work like an MP3.
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 1:51 PM PDT
@Renegade Knight

LOL, by using iPod + iTunes, you have to totally let go of yourself.

Forget your nicely organized MP3 cascade folders, don't even try to manually move files around. Of course you can costomize your library view or smart play list, but only within the laws of universe of iTunes.

Indeed for a more tech savvy guy, it's a scary jump of faith.

I jumped 3 years ago, then I found true serenity. Everything started to make sense. Praise his steveness! RAmen!

What's with the AAC/MP3 problem though. Why should somebody care?Do you happen to have some antique MP3 player not compatible with AAC? Seriously
by JP-Peterson April 26, 2009 3:31 PM PDT
Macs don't get viruses tehrani625.

A virus self installs. There has yet to be a case of malware of any kind on a Mac that wasn't put there by direct access to the machine or idiocy on the part of the user.

I run antivirus software on my Mac. I live in a world full of PC's. I don't want to accidentally pass something on that didn't effect me at all.
by amitg1979 April 26, 2009 4:59 PM PDT
@JP-peterson
Sorry, but Macs can get viruses. Apparently there was a virus that affected iChat in 2006 http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2006/02/macosxleap.html. Also, Apple complained that iPod got infected by a virus because of Windows. Doesn't Apple know about viruses and care? They should have been pre-pared. Its been years since I read the article, but if they connected the iPod to a Mac, the Mac could have then been infected by the virus. I am wondering if that is how they found out. Macs are not impervious to malware, viruses, trojans or any other problems that plagues Windows.

One thing that I would like to understand, how does a virus get reported? If it is from anti-virus application then if a computer is not running an anti-virus app then they could essentially have a virus that would not be reported. Just another of my 2 cents.
by ikramerica--2008 April 26, 2009 5:02 PM PDT
Many MP3 players still do not play AAC flies. It's frustrating that Apple does not offer a conversion utility in iTunes from their unprotected m4a to mp3. They offer AIFF, but if you want to burn an MP3 CD or DVD, it will just "skip" the m4as. Thanks Apple.
by AllenKids April 26, 2009 7:20 PM PDT
@ikramerica--2008

What are you talking about? iTunes convert unprotected purchase to mp3 just fine.

Do a little dig in your preference, It's under import CD setting I believe.
by JP-Peterson April 26, 2009 9:21 PM PDT
amitig1979: Macs are Unix based. They do not run .exe files.

Your virus is a worm requiring user interaction to install. To quote my previous post "There has yet to be a case of malware of any kind on a Mac that wasn't put there by direct access to the machine or idiocy on the part of the user."

Symantec lists that "Leap A Worm" as effecting "0-49" machines, it's threat level as "Low" and it's removal as "Easy". Yes, it required a user click to install.

An iPod has to be reformatted to run with a Windows machine. A Mac can't read an iPod formated for Windows. So no, the virus could not transfer to a Mac.

Apple is concerned about viruses, several months ago they released a support notice recommending Mac users run anti virus software. It was taken down within a few days. I just switched from Windows in October. I read a number of pro/con Mac anti virus articles online. I run anti virus on my Mac just in case, and so I don't accidentally pass something on to my friends.

Yes, most viruses are found because anti virus software catches it, then notifies it's (the AV software's not the viruses) maker. What you said is theoretically true. A new virus on an unprotected machine, would go unreported. But viruses usually get wide distribution and are caught quickly. Norton, Avast, Intego et al then release the fix in their "Virus Definitions" updates.
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by Sourdust April 26, 2009 11:47 AM PDT
The interesting thing about the Laptop Hunter ads is that they barely mention Windows. It's all about the hardware and cost. You could make a minor change and make it an ad for Linux or Psystar.
Reply to this comment
by ikramerica--2008 April 26, 2009 11:53 AM PDT
And the "laptop hunters" don't end up buying products that meet their criteria, either...

The tagline should be "I'm stupid and can be convinced to buy something I don't want by a Best Buy employee..."
by amitg1979 April 26, 2009 11:53 AM PDT
Thats true, but I think MS was smart in not mentioning Windows in the ads. The reason is that There are so many companies that install Windows on their machines that MS will not bring up their brand on any particular company because they could be in trouble from other companies. I hope that makes some sense. :)
by Renegade Knight April 26, 2009 1:09 PM PDT
Now there's an idea. Laptop Hunter passes over the Mac and HP and gets a PsyStar.
by ikramerica--2008 April 26, 2009 11:52 AM PDT
Apple's ads now are better than the even more obnoxious ads they used to run with Jeff Goldblum saying nothing of value.
Reply to this comment
by Seaspray0 April 27, 2009 11:27 AM PDT
They're like doing a ford vs chevy commercial based on a parody using pet rocks. They don't show the product, they don't even show anyone using the product, and there are no facts in the commercials.
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