XP Starter under the gun

(continued from previous page)

Edition in Russia, for example, but has placed that project on hold until the government there is ready with its low-cost PC program.

Starter Edition grew out of a test program Microsoft created for government-backed efforts in Thailand and Malaysia to offer budget PCs to consumers. Microsoft formally launched Starter Edition as a product in August 2004, promising to bring the OS to five countries as part of an expanded pilot project.

Where in the world? Microsoft has offered or plans to offer Windows XP Starter Edition in a range of countries. Country Announced Status Thailand June 2003* launched Malaysia March 2004* launched Indonesia August 2004 launched Brazil April 2005 Recently launched India Sept. 2004 Just launched Mexico June 2005 Just launched Russia Sept. 2004 Not yet launched *Earlier low-cost Windows pilot, a precursor to Starter. Source: Microsoft

Among its restrictions, Starter Edition can run only three programs at a time, sets limits on a monitor's maximum screen resolution and only works with certain processors.

Microsoft executives concede that demand in the first three countries--Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia--has been "modest," but added that demand is stronger in other places, such as Brazil. Microsoft won't say how many Starter Edition-based computers have shipped since Microsoft launched the new Windows version as a pilot project two years ago.

Gartner said that the software's restricted features also blunt the ability of Starter Edition to act as a check on pirated versions, which are widespread in most of the markets where Microsoft sells the OS.

"Ultimately, Microsoft can't limit the functionality of Windows and successfully fight piracy," Gartner said in its report. "The only real options are to lower the price and maintain functionality."

But Wickstrand counters that the limits haven't been an issue among testers of the version of Windows XP.

Wickstrand said that Starter Edition is meeting the needs of its target market, based on feedback from Microsoft beta program participants in Thailand, India and other countries.

One is Sagaya Shalini, a woman who runs an Internet cafe in a village in Tamil Nadu, India. Shalini uses her PC to run a variety of businesses for the very rural village, home to about 1,000 people. It is three hours from the nearest city and 10 kilometers from the nearest other computer. As a result, her PC gets a lot of use.

Shalini gives computer and language classes and also uses the PC to send basic medical information, such as a villager's blood pressure or EKG, to a distant medical professional. The PC even helps diagnose agricultural problems.

"She'll take a picture of someone's crop and get advice with what may be wrong with their crops," Wickstrand said.

When making product decisions, Wickstrand says he tries to think about what would work for Shalini. "I use Sagaya as a

[Scott W]

no-one wants XP

nobody wants a cut-down overpriced OS when they can get a fully functional windows XP for nothing (could windows be classed as fully functional). the governments are also trying to promote linux and if people want to avoid piracy then they can get that for nothing as well. ms can't compete with a superior product that is also better can they?

[David Arbogast]

Pay Less = Get Less

"Superior" and "Better" are subjective. Obviously, we can all read your bias.

Rule of thumb in the commercial market:
Pay Less = Get Less

And that goes for Linux too.

[201293546946733175101343322673]

"the governments" are also trying to promote linux......

DO you mind naming some countries here? :)

[handydan918]

Yer right, mostly....

M$ doesn't seem to be able to grasp the concept that the Free Software model is changing the way that people and governments choose software. The very idea of limiting how many windows XP will open! "We will let you use this stripped down version of our buggy, inherently insecure O/S, but you must be punished for not paying the price we demand for the O/S and using it the way we designed it."
Arrogance rarely works long-term in the free market.

They don't get it

3 Window limitation? Omg.
If you choose linux you can have free of charge:

1. An operating system without any imposed limitations (including but not restricted to: number of processors/architectures, processes, installations, users)

2. Office suites ( Openoffice,Koffice, Goffice )

3. Multimedia ( Cd burning, Filmplayers, Music players, encoders etc.)

4. Games (from arcade to full 3D)

5. Network capability with some very powerful tools (iptables for instance)

6. Internationalisation. Linux is availiable in more languages than most other OS-es.

7. If you're lucky a linux guru who is so bent on promoting his OS that he installs and configures it to your needs or you can use the easy install interfaces. 2 clicks for an installation for example.

And yes you can have this for free and spend the extra $ that Microsoft would have stolen from you to feed your children or buy extra hardware.

I am fully aware that this post is advertising on behalf of Linux but since cnet only advertises Microsoft (and I'd love to have even 1% of the sum they get for it) I felt compelled to advertise linux. Having installed around 40-50 systems with linux on some computers through a government funded program to equip the poorer people with computers I had a choice of:
a. ) windows home edition in english
b. ) any linux I chose in the local language

So I opted for linux since it already has games/programming and office application while windows had as far as I noticed viruses and adware availiable free of charge :P

Let the flamewar begin. But I know I'm right.

[David Arbogast]

GPL Limits Developing Countries

<<Let the flamewar begin. But I know I'm right.>>

I do appreciate arrogance, actually.
Consider, however, that adopting Linux is nearly synonymous with adopting GPL-flavored Open-Source. Any developing country that wants to develop a successful commercial software market in order to create jobs and profit for citizens will not be interested in Open-Source. Not that it can't be done, I've heard the argument, but there is no doubt that software systems released under other license agreements represent more flexibility and freedom for developing countries. GPL is very costly in terms of the possibilities it eliminates.

[201293546946733175101343322673]

Sure You Are Right

So how about you pack up today, fly to those countries, and do free Linux tech support for them? I believe they will greatly appreciate your effort :)

Why does the "Starter Edition" exist?

I'm afraid I don't see the logic of "Windows
Starter Edition". Is it really to appeal to
developing countries?

Developing countries are frequently
cash-strapped. Windows XP is a silly choice for
widespread use because of the (relatively
speaking) hefty resource requirements -- you
want something that can run on the commodity
hardware of yesteryear. Forget spending cash on
licenses, and software has to be REALLY cheap to
be considered. "Developing country" probably
means that they don't speak the Yankees'
English, so the platform and the majority of the
apps need to be localized. And do you really
want to spend the time and effort having to
establish a regime for and regulations to handle
the peculiarities of the corporate American
style licensing of software? What would suggest
Microsoft's products over other solutions if you
don't already have large legacy Microsoft-based
infrastructure to support?

I guess the preceding paragraph is largely
rhetorical, since a number of developing nations
have already put together well-reasoned plans
for infrstructure and deployment of computer
systems in their countries. I suppose the real
question is, if Microsoft's already the underdog
there, coming to the table late, why would they
bring something so limited (at higher cost)? The
Windows logo simply doesn't carry much weight in
countries where the greater part of the
population hasn't ever used a computer.

[David Arbogast]

SIMPLE

Because there is DEMAND for WINDOWS at a lower price point.

[Bob_Barker]

Do these countries even need household PC's?

Do these countries even need household PC's? I have a hard time believing some banana farmer (forgive my geralized term but it's merely an example) from wherever is going to care about computers. Even if they had one they'd probably be playing solitaire like the rest of us. It seems to me like people are forcing them to adapt and/or change to the standards of the industrialized world.

These so called "critics" of this Starter Edition are scaling their needs against the product, not the banana farmer's. Perhaps Microsoft reasons that by limiting the number of windows open will reduce the confusion of the first time user. The limit may also be there so the user doesn't over task "hardware of yester-year" resulting in sluggish or undesireable performance. A big issue if you're new to computers. If the computer starts operating undesirebly a new user will most likely think it's their fault.

Now I'm no fanboi of MS or Linux or any other OS but doesn't forcing a company to change their product seem a bit wrong? It's like telling a auto manufacturer that we only allow cars with 3 wheels here, and they have to have go 0-60 in 4 seconds and have cost less than 10k.

You have a point

During my abovementioned distribution of government funded computers to "simple banana farmers" (well not actually but the term is quite descriptive) I have obesrved a general tendency:

The reason they wanted to aquire a PC was that their children should learn to use it and so that it may assist them in their school work. The majority of parents didn't even know that you could actually listen to music, watch films or even play games.

So from this point of view they think of the future of their child since this rapidly changing world demands PC skills in a growing number of areas.

[kh-usa]

Yes, we have no computers...

To paraphrase Ken Olsen of DEC, "There is no reason for any banana farmer to have a computer in his home."

(I wasn't sure if should click 'report offensive comment' or 'reply')

Yes, the do...

Yes, these people do or at have the option to. Especailly in a world where more and more is controlled, operated and run by computers. If they hope to ever have a chance to get out of poverty then use.

This is also why this limited version is just fine. After getting it they can then decide if it does enough for them or they can upgrade to the full version for all of the features. At the very least it gets them in the computer door and gets them some hands on experience with the worlds most prevelent computer platform and operating system. What they do after that is up to them.

I am no fan of Microsoft but this was the right thing for them to do. Shame they had to be forced in to it with law suites.

Robert

[sanenazok]

Can't use notepad with it

You can't use notepad because it's so easy to open more than three windows, just when you want to change printer settings:

Click on File=>Page Setup then Click the Printer Button and Click Properties. Whoops, can't do that since that would be your fourth window. That shows you how useful this is.

This thing's competition isn't no OS (since there's Linux) it's not even no Windows (since pirated copies are everywhere especially in the poorer countries). These limits on use are particularly annoying since programs are not designed to minimize window use. Instead, what MS should have done is sold an updated Windows Me or something else like that to those countries. Me is about the same level of uselessness as a tied down XP, except it will not make the computer a shareware toy.

[201293546946733175101343322673]

MS should have sold......

.....Windows 95 2006 Edition :)

[MITCHIND]

THEY WILL LOOK BACK AT US AND WONDER WHY MICROSOFT MADE SO MUCH MONEY

I have never been a Microsoft fan and in my small business I try and use as little as possible.

The operating system and Office suite is so mediocre.

I have been a long time user of Lotus Smartsuite and except for it medicore filters for saving in Microsoft file formats it has always been so far head.

I take at elast twice as long to do a Word layour than a Word Pro and the formating is so much better in Lotus.

If i was driving down the road and I saw Bill Gates and Steve Balmer on the side of the road broken down I would have to stop and say SORRY but you are on your own and I cannot help them.

I would really do this because the operating system that we have as a collective race stupidly accepted wastes so much of my time and in 15 years in business has cost me proably more than 1000 hours fighting with system medicority, limitations and poor performance and there are alternatives.

In some articles I read when the anti trust cases were going on in the USA I saw one state had a large accounting house who had assessed that picking this stuff would mean a senior officer of a company would not be meeting their fuduciary requirements to the company, and considering the time they waste that conclusion does not suprise me.

What really amazed me with these hearings is that why they did not make Microsoft allow the competitors to make it so that Microsoft Office applications not have decent filters for opening and saving in other formats.

This is one of the biggest ways they force people like me in small business to have to buy their office applciations as people i send data to cannot open a Word Pro document for example.

Stuff removing the media player why cant these high priced lawyers for the anti trust cases really help competitors move in and do something about the opening and saving formats

[201293546946733175101343322673]

Lotus Smartsuite and Word Pro?

Wow, in one second I thought this is 1995, not 2005 :)

[Scott W]

you would just refuse to help them?

hell, for the torture they put me through with the blue screen i would run them over. hehe

Lotus Smartsuite user

Good man, Hope you have my views and hope IBM make sure that total compatibility is maintained with Smartsuite running on MS Vista. Better still, Smartsuite on Linux would be fantastic!!! But I fear ths is just a dream...unless anyone knows better?.

What do you think?

[201293546946733175101343322673]

Critics, huh?

I see, maybe those so-called "critics" are losers in life, because they can only criticize and cannot make any single positive contribution in the society :)

Doh!

You beat me to that notion by a few seconds!

[Bill Dautrive]

Irony

You calling someone a loser?

You can't even come up with an intelligent argument.

[Scott W]

OUR RIGHTS

as consumers we have the right to complain about products we buy. if we didn't then windows wouldn't exist. we would all be forced to use DOS. also without these rights, food companies wouldn't have to follow hygiene laws as nobody would complain. people say "don't like windows? don't use it!" when they know for a fact that in many cases that is simply not possible so we use our rights given to us by law and complain about it. when windows stops being crap then we will cease to complain about it. 'nuff said.

"Critics say..."

"Critics say..."

There seems to be a trend in the modern era that makes people think that if they want to be seen as intelligent and in-the-know, they have to criticize things.

In reality, thats the intellectually lazy way out. Anyone can criticize anything. Its not a sign of intelligence, just a sign of someone who likes to complain.

If this version of windows is SO bad, then it will fail. But if it doesnt, will CNET follow up with these critics and ask them if they were full of crap?

[sanenazok]

obvious

you're criticizing the critics for their criticisms ergo...

[Bill Dautrive]

"If this version of windows is SO bad, then it will fail."

Really?

Windows Operating Systems are some of the worst ever. By any legitimate measuring stick.

IE is curently the worst of the major broswers, by miles.

Office is a bloated pig, and there are several alternaitves that are much better.

MS servers are among the worse as well.

In the server market MS is a bit player, but that is because people who need servers are more knowlegable then the average PC user.

The other products rule the roost in their respective markets, in spite of better products.

In business the cream rarely rises to the top, and MS being on top is a prime example. They do have a few products that are decent, but even those try to lock you in and limit your choices.

If this version of Windows is so bad...

...then it will fail?

What sort of logic is that? Perhaps we'd like to
believe that, but it's not true. The fact is
that Windows doesn't sell itself. Microsoft
works very hard selling their product. Their
marketing, legal, and legislative lobbying teams
are the best in the world, bar none. Where they
can, they pay the bribes, they level the
threats, whatever it takes to maintain
dominance.

The point is that Microsoft's strategy is not
about the quality of the product, or customer
service. The strategy is about maintaining
"market momentum". If they need to loose money
hand-over-fist in a market to remain a presence
(MSN, XBox, SQL-Server, etc), buy companies to
remove products or product features from the
market (Connectix), whatever it takes.

Will "Windows Starter Edition" fail? Of course
not, how can it if the objective isn't so much
to sell it as it is to purchase a presence in a
niche? It can't fail.

I don't think it will catch on, but by the same
token, I'm not sure that's the goal.

[Scott W]

check my above post

if we didn't critisize we would still be in the stone age. we pay for a product and have the right to complain when it doesn't work. these are called our statutory rights in the UK.

[Thomas, David]

Let's get down to what it really means.

The Windows XP starter edition is nothing more than a technical
slap in the face for its' "targeted" customers. Who in there right
mind would ever want an intentional limited OS, with the
obvious goal of making actual computer use so painful that you
yearn to buy an upgrade?!

It seems as though Microsoft delivered this edition because they
were forced to and were pissed about it. Hmmmmm. No
defense against Microsoft, but when I have a client who forces
me to do something on some crazy timeline, I give them exactly
what they asked for, nothing more, nothing less. Any
experienced developer knows that taking this approach meets
your commitment, but always results in an inferior product.
Only in this instance, Microsoft took pains to make it more
painful by cutting corners in areas not stipulated.

The ONLY result of such tactics by Microsoft will be to drive the
majority of its intended audience to other solutions. It is a
prime example of how they truly do business, and it worked
when they dealt with other businesses. But when you are
attempting to win over individual customers with a free will, this
is a disaster.

Three windows at a time?! Are you kidding?! I didn't need to
read the rest of the article when after I read that. Now I am
purely interested in finding out what the complete list of
limitations are.

It is dumbfounding to see Microsoft hold onto there bloated
profit growth at the expense of their future. Their expansive
growth, and cash rich profits were mind-blowing, But EVERY
business hits a plateau. They have made enough money to
practically give the OS away, and concentrate on their
applications and grow them. But that is all together a separate
issue, hampered by greed and huge benefits. Microsoft is
experiencing a kind of tunnel vision which can be directly
attributed to Gates and Ballmer. Once again, I am no fan of
Microsoft, but I believe they are at a true cross-roads when they
produce something like the Windows XP starter edition and
attempt to pass it off as something beneficial.

They need new leadership, but since I am not a fan, maybe they
should keep it up.

[pythonhacker]

Microsoft vs Linux

Among these 39 posts I found 25 pro Linux, about 9-10 pro M$ and 4-5 neutral or useless. If CNET posters represent a cross section of educated computer users in the world, M$ has something to worry about.

I am a regular reader of Microsoft related articles at CNET. This pattern seems to be quite common now a days in the comments. The number of M$ supporting posts are decreasing.

Way to go Tux!

Then and Now!

">>>Among these 39 posts I found 25 pro Linux............. If CNET posters represent a cross section of educated computer users in the world, M$ has something to worry about.>>>". The reason to me is simply this - educated computers users around the world are not prepared to take the same risks that IBM took with Microsoft during the weaning years of the PC Industry. I will suggest that you take the time sometimes to read other articles other than ones from CNET News; here is one that you may find of some interest:
http://www.millennium-technology.com/HistoryOfOS2.html

I am wondering just where were you when the Anti-trust Trial against Microsoft was ongoing in the US Courts and I suppose you have not heard about the European Commission's case against this company for anti-competitive behavior. These to my mind are are at the bottom of it all. IBM which was almost brought to its knees... incidentally is one of the biggest backers of the Linux Operating System. It more looks like payback time to me and "educated computers users" not taking chances anymore with Microsoft.

;-)

How much do you really want to spend.

I have six members in the family. Four are Win-XP, one is Mandrake Linux and one is Linspire. All are sharing a DSL Static IP on a Linksys Router and a print server. All of my kids are quite good with MS Office and are learning Linux at present. The XP machines are behind a hard firewall but are still prone to inaddvertently opened attachments, spy ware and etc. Mandrake runs really well and virus attcks haven't happened. The Linspire is the easyest to install and software is abundant for $99.00 per year. We all do the same things regardless of which machine we are on, but hands down the Linspire machine is the most trouble free with really no sacrifice at all.

Oh my

$99 for a Linux? Oh my. Of course if the GDP in this country wasn't 1/25 -th of the US I'd be happy to buy it even if I don't use it just to support them.
But with my salary of $133 I don't think that'll happen too soon.

[Mendz]

Are you earning in US$?

I wonder how many of the people who posted here do not earn in US$. I wonder how many actually lives in the Windows XP Starter Edition target countries. I wonder how many actually understands the need that Microsoft is trying to fill here.

Value for your money, I agree that the starter edition is not the best investment of a family, for example, who's US$300 is a lifetime savings. Or maybe of a small start-up business with big plans soon.

But if it's what you can afford to start now, you might just buy it. Really...

I think what is essential here is the fact that the target audience are first-time PC users looking for budget PCs. It's not much about the product but the education program that goes with it. Any software vendor can do the same and offer the same education program to the target countries it wishes to "serve".

Of course, everything else after that is business...

[pythonhacker]

Re: Are you earning in US$?

I am from India, one of the so-called 'target' countries. However, I don't envision the Starter edition making a big impact here. Microsoft marketing aside, the edition is a waste of money.

300$ converts to approx 13000 Indian rupees. One can get a cheap PC complete with a hard disk, monitor, CD rom drive at that cost and load one of the freely available Linux distros on it. Linux makes more sense of India since it is almost completely localized. GNOME and KDE are available in a number of Indian languages such as Hindi, Punjabi, Tamil, Malayalam, Gujarati etc.

Why would a poor Tamil woman shell out 300$ for a Win XP starter edition with 3 window limit (great innovation!) when she can have a full-fledged Fedora or Ubuntu Linux desktop running with GNOME/KDE with Tamil fonts? It is pure marketing crap from M$.

[Bak2DFuture]

MICROSOFT XP

Whatever happened to the DOS -based programme Framework?

Anyone who uses outlines and can go back twenty years will remember how user-friendly this programme was : a fully-integrated text, database, and spreadsheet programme where each frame could be any one of the three.

No matter how fancy Microsoft has become, they still have not achieved the simplicity of Framework...and its inbuilt programming language, Fred.

Breaking News...Microsoft Pays IBM... Whooh!

"Microsoft said Friday it will pay $775 million to IBM to settle an antitrust lawsuit from the mid-1990s in which IBM charged that certain Microsoft practices hurt its OS/2 Operating System and SmartSuite products, along with its server and hardware business."

http://www.varbusiness.com/sections/news/breakingnews.jhtml;jsessionid=DMHF5DLDSSSMAQSNDBGCKH0CJUMEKJVN?articleId=165600085

Just as I had mentioned in an earlier comment - Microsoft practices did hurt IBM's and its Business Partner's (Indelible Blue...) OS/2 Operating System and SmartSuite products. Fight on "surviving" OS/2 and SmartSuite Communities all you have to loose are the Windows and Office C-R-A-P that are preventing the world's developing communities from moving at "WARP SPEED". We may have suffered heavy casualties in the battles for "market share" earlier on but we have only just started the journey "back to the stars" and the global leadership and expertise in the PC Industry is for us to retake. The way to go IBM!

;-)

dont get me wrong on this...

Im not pro Microsoft and im guessing IBM had the proof that MS caused harm with there OS/2 and smartsuite products, Im not stating this for MS or IBM but i find there are more companies doing this, under the same terms or analogy could Kmart sue Walmart for lost sales for knowing that Walmart will undercut any competitor to drive up sales at there stores?
And well i know MS is definetly well known for there Antitrust suits against them and i dont blame IBM. On the same Note i can see why AMD is suing Intel.
It just seems to me that some companies that couldnt make it sue the competitor to make up for loss in weak products and sales, im guessing it just seems to be a fad now a days.

Way to go IBM

As a long term user of Lotus Smartsuite this news makes me smile.
I hope I'm not alone in wishing that IBM will start marketing Smartsuite again now that MS are licking their wounds. I am currently using the up-to-date version of Smartsuite V9.8.1 and there is nothing that this can't do that MS office can.. (MS will state it wont, but I use both systems MS at work and Lotus at home and intergration is seamless). Trust me, Smartsuite can cut it, It is less corporate, and it has a nicer GUI. If someone in IBM wants to motivate the world once more ? Re awaken this software that make life easier for all.

dont forget Avast!

I run Avast! on my windows setup, its free also for home use and its been one of best AV programs i have used.

Was in responce to the top post on AV also....

Didnt think cnet had let me post that responce above this post, for those confused about it, it was in responce to the post at the top about free AntiVirus's....
Now just to throw my 2 cents in-- I personally dont see why anyone anywhere would buy a crippled version of windows, if anything it would seem more reasonable to sell an older version of windows marked down in price, say like when longhorn replaces XP, but on the other hand i have used Linux (Mandrake and Suse also Fedora) as well and would be using it entirely more if i had full support of all my windows based apps and games (primarily my games) in it although they do come with great apps and some games.
So usually now when i run Linux i use Knoppix live cd and wait for Wine or some other full support to get better in the other distro's so that i can use all my software and hardware that i have aquired over the years in pure linux enviroment.

[iqula]

Message has been deleted.

[Scott W]

why

why?

Put it out of it's misery

Now starter edition is crippled. As such it suffers. It suffers a lot. So do the users. What do you do with an animal that fell into a trap and is now crippled, clear that it won't survive? You put it out of it's misery. For the good of all. Show mercy and delete windows. Nothing that crippled should be left to cause such suffering, anger and hate. Windows is the path to the darkside. Break free. Format C: . Begin anew as a new man, free of the tyrrany of patents and proprietary software! Use Open Source. By using it you will reward yourself and the makers of the software aswell.

[Scott W]

crazy boi

i love OSS as much as you, but there's no need to get all poetic about it. you'll only put more people off.