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The so-called Employment Eligibility Verification System would be established as part of a bill that senators began debating on Monday, a procedure that is likely to continue through June and would represent the most extensive rewrite of immigration and visa laws in a generation. Because anyone who fails a database check would be out of a job, the proposed database already has drawn comparisons with the "no-fly list" and is being criticized by civil libertarians and business groups.
All employers--at least 7 million, according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce--would be required to verify identity documents provided by both existing employees and potential hires, the legislation says. The data, including Social Security numbers, would be provided to Homeland Security, on penalty of perjury, and the government databases would provide a work authorization confirmation within three business days.
There is no privacy requirement that the federal government delete the information after work authorization is given or denied. Employers would be required to keep all the documentation in paper or electronic form for seven years "and make it available for inspection by officers of the Department of Homeland Security" and the Department of Labor. It would also open up the IRS' databases of confidential taxpayer information to Homeland Security and its contractors.
Even parents who hire nannies might be covered. The language in the bill, called the Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act (PDF), defines an employer as "any person or entity hiring, recruiting, or referring an individual for employment in the United States" and does not appear to explicitly exempt individuals or small businesses. (Its Senate sponsors did not immediately respond on Monday to queries on this point.)
Backers of the proposal, including the Bush administration and many members of Congress, argue the changes to U.S. law are necessary to combat fraud and to ensure employees are truly eligible to work in the United States. According to an analysis by the Pew Hispanic Center, about 7.2 million undocumented immigrants were working in the United States as of March 2005.
"This bill brings us closer to an immigration system that enforces our laws and upholds the great American tradition of welcoming those who share our values and our love of freedom," President Bush said in his radio address on Saturday.
But the federal government's hardly stellar track record in keeping its databases accurate and secure is prompting an outcry over the verification system. Opponents argue that errors could unwittingly shut out millions of Americans who are actually eligible to work in the United States.
"All the problems that are attendant to the no-fly list are going to be a problem for a nationwide employment eligibility verification system," said Timothy Sparapani, senior legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union. "And that's because the government as a rule is terrible about setting up massive data systems and then conditioning peoples' exercises of rights and privileges on the proper functioning of these databases."
Supporters of a federal verification requirement argue that some states, including North Carolina, Georgia, Colorado, Idaho and Arizona, already require employers to engage in some sort of verification--but Sparapani says they're far less extensive and intrusive.
One well-known example of buggy federal databases can be found in the no-fly list, which is intended to keep known terrorists off commercial airplanes. But it's flagged many other people, including Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), for questioning at security checkpoints.
In 1996, Congress enacted a related law colloquially known as the "deadbeat dad database," that required employers to report new hires to the federal government. But unlike the current proposal, the new-hire database did not have the ability to deny employment authorization.
See more CNET content tagged:
legislative counsel, employer, homeland security, bill, database
Mark
This article has nothing to do with technology, and only exists to shove the ultra-left-wing opinions on the bill being voted on in congress down the throats of the CNet readers. Like I said the database already exists, the law for verification already exists, the ID cards already exist, just that the law is not really enforced that much and employers are too lazy to use the existing system.
The scary part of this whole article is that the bill has not even been approved of yet! It is still being debated on, and voted on. It only passed one house of congress, and the article is pretending like it has become the law already, when in fact it has not yet become law and might, for all we know, be voted down or filibustered.
In fact, we don't even need it to be passed, just enforce the existing laws on immigration and use the existing database to verify citizenship. Then enforce the law to penalize employers for hiring illegals and once you crack down on them, they will beginning using that verification database like they should have over 70 years ago when it was established by FDR as part of social security.
Since when did CNet become an ultra-left wing political tabloid rag?
I mean CNet has been forcing global warming down our throats for the past year or so, and now is forcing illegal immigration issues down our throats as well now. How much money is the Democratic Party paying your company to publish articles supporting their point of view in order to brainwash us technology people who want to read technology news instead of political news?
Anyway, liberal is to conservative as libertarian is to authoritarian. You're just confused as the ACLU has been subverted to a liberal agenda.
Both parties want Big Brother. They just want to shut out the others from access to it. Watch another election season unfold where the issues will yet again be Gay Marriage and Abortion.
Both parties are entirely convinced that loyalty is way more important than issues. Both are pushing an "Either you're with us or you're against us" strategy.
The slobs that rule plebeian society are going to bleat and recite the mantra "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear." and you know what? They're right!
Nobody IS going to do anything about anything. Reporting the disintegration of our civil liberties won't do ANYthing to stem the tide. Anyone who stands out to fight it will just get hurt.
Thank you ACLU for putting pedophiles, illegal aliens and aggressive homosexual stalking way ahead of the right to privacy, the right to demonstrate and the right to bear arms.
Stalin would love them but then again, Stalin wasn't a libertarian. He was a Communist dictator.
And just remember, a vote for an independent is a vote for the bad guys. Support your local Demacrook or Republicon and... maybe they'll let you keep your job. ;) Maybe.
Second, we've been covering the intersection of technology and politics for over a decade. Anyone remember the CDA back in the mid-1990s? CALEA? Encryption export controls? All those are political, and technical.
Third, the questions of security, privacy, accountability, access, and reliability for a new government databases are assuredly technology-related and deserve to be asked in these pages.
Read this, a weep, my fellow countrymen, for what we have lost in our ruch for "security"; we have lost our national soul:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2063979,00.html
Still interested? This register will be independent of the presence or non-presence of illegals anyway.
UPDATE SERFS SET CAN_WORK = 'N' WHERE PARTY_AFFILIATION = 'D';
None of this has anything to do with safety... and everything to do with control.
Just wait... "laws" giving "law-enforcement" the absolute, unilateral, power to detain... seize... investigate... monitor... search... question... or, go on any damned >>>fishing-expedition<<< that they want... and, even "torture"... have all, pretty-much, already been put in place.
Use the Internet... youll be continually "monitored" by the Government. Have a "bank account"... youll be continually "monitored" by the Government. Have a car... youll be continually "monitored" by the Government. Have a job... youll be continually "monitored" by the Government.
ALL of this has a name... an UGLY ONE (to any real-American)... "TOTALITARIANISM".
I, for one, am sick of constant government video-surveillance... warrant-less Government "spying programs"... Police "checkpoints"... "secret" police-actions... and so-called "war", after "war", after "war" (which are entirely artificially-created, solely, to rob me of every single American-freedom)... And, all of it coming from some of the most corrupt-administrations in American-history.
Frankly, there are only two kinds of people that support this CRAP... FOOLS, and TRAITORS that just know that "freedom" is the single-greatest threat to the STATUS QUO (which they personally benefit from).
Blame Rockefeller,Ford, and Morgans for starting this mess in America.
These guys are traitors to the constitution and the elected leaders who are allowing this are co-conspirators and traitors also.
Our children are doomed if it is not stopped.
I think it is too late for Britain.
I am truly afraid for my country...
Read on, and you'll learn the reason why.
Instead, Indian IT offshoring companies are using this Visa to preferentially hire only Indian nationals, and then train them on the job in the U.S. As a prelude to massive offshoring of U.S. jobs.
Karmal Nath (Indian Commerce Minister) knows this, and he is raising a fuss over it because he wants to obscure the fundamental reasons why there is a controversy over this Visa program.
These issues are:
- Indian companies discriminate against U.S. citizens by preferentially hiring Indian citizens, over U.S. citizens, for U.S. based jobs.
- The h-1b Visa program is being used as the "Outsourcing Visa" by Indian IT offshoring companies.
The commerce minister himself has coined the term "Outsourcing Visa" when referring the U.S. h-1b visa program.
These companies are not even trying to find U.S. personnel to fill these jobs.
In open testimony before congress, an applicant called a U.S. recruiter for a job in the U.S. She was told she would not be considered for the job simply because she could not be sponsored for an h-1b Visa.
In other words your are not qualified just because you are american. That's discrimination and bigotry in its worst form.
India has to ask itself one very consciencious question, would this be allowed in India? I think not.
Karmal Nath is responding perversly (he is threatening the U.S. with trade sanctions in the WTO) because he knows there is something obviously wrong. And the Senators (Durbin and Grassely) are merely working to make sure that U.S. citizens are not discriminated against in their own country just because their point of origin happens to be the U.S.
It is ridiculous to link the h-1b Visa with trade. It is a long-term, 3 to 6 year visa, meant to enhance U.S. industry and U.S. jobs, and possibly lead to U.S. citizen ship.
No more babies that are citizens because they are born here, they are citizens of the country of their mother.
The illegals that are no problem, are no problem. No need to chase them out.
Are the apologists going to try to claim that all 12 Million are active criminals or welfare leaches?
The very hard to swallow part is that it takes so much time, money, and hard work on the part of an American to prepare for these specific careers. It took me six years of working and going to school to get my BSCS. And it wasn't easy - I remember late nights in the data center, working with other students to solve problems and get projects in on time. It is an intense and competitive program - all to prepare you for a career that is being offshored and streamlined by the H-1Bs.
How utterly unfair and disheartening to set Americans up for failure like that.
This will be happening with all the high skill service sector jobs. Discussions are being held now. The limitation (without any government controls) will be set only the imaginations of the corporations trying to increase their profits. This is why nothing will get better until we cut the corporate strings attached to all our politicians.
As far as intellectual property is concerned, it's the obligation of any corporation doing business in foreign countries to understand and observe their laws. Our government does not try to change them, nor are they interested in Socialist idealism from countries who feel that they have a mandate to get more from us than we get from them.
It just so happens that a bunch of post cold war has-beens still think that we can buy friends. Everything else is plain old hardball negotiation between businesses which favor larger corporations while dragging governments into the business of business.
I suggest that Government only regulate trade according to Constitutional guidelines and allow the Fed to do their jobs. Leave the political Napoleons out of it and learn to take care of your own house.
Getting back on topic, this idea is entirely in agreement with a zero compromise strategy towards illegal aliens. Politicians aren't there to serve the interests of Mexicans who they're just convinced will become voters for their holy party anyway. The Dems think they're a shoe-in on Minority-Victim Socialism and the Pubs think they've got a lock on the Catholic.
The rest of us know what a worthless government is in Mexico. I personally don't give a hoot how hard they work. They're not welcome here until they are willing to play by our cultural and economic rules. That includes not selling yourself to the church, the state and the corporations.
Predictable troglodytes, one and all.
In short, it is a half measure (at best!) that deals with the symptoms not the cause of the problem.
Parts of the proposed immigration bill I could support. But this little piece of legislation will steal so much more of our privacy rights from us, I will vigorously oppose it.
Another term like this one will spark a revolution.
You've only got one choice left. Some day in the not so distant future, some people are going to forcibly prevent aliens from coming into the country and Uncle Sam will send troops to subjugate it's own citizens.
Some mamby-pamby family men are going to get all wrapped up in a debate over who fires the first shot and some people will know better.
1: An ID can be created that can not be forged.
2: The Government can accurately collect and warehouse data.
3: The Government can determine which illegal was here by the deadline and the ones that came afterwards.
4: The Government will enforce the new law.
5: The fiscal impact of this bill is low.
Let's look at the issues with the bill:
1. Any ID can be forged. We live in an age that you can get anything if you have the money.
2. The Government can not even find the illegals using the same SSN or dead people's SSN in the country now. The no-fly list shows how poorly the Government collects, scrubs and maintains data.
3. If you have this zVisa to "prove" it, see #1.
4. The Government does not enforce the laws we have already, so what would make us think they would enforce a new law?
5. Estimates are around $1.5 trillion to add the guest workers to our entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare and Welfare.
The border needs to be closed first. Once we have control on the border, then we can look at solving the issues at hand. The fence bill was passed prior to the 2006 election, 2 miles have been built, the rest needs to be completed. Then we need to work with the Border Patrol to maintain complete control of the border.
The next issue is the Government needs to address is to enforce the existing laws. Fine the businesses that hire illegals. Deport all criminal illegals. Look at the social security number usage, and review the people that have numbers used in multiple places across the country, deport the illegals that are abusing the system.
The next issue is to resolve the "Anchor Baby" issue by stating that children of citizens born in the US are automatically citizens. Existing anchor babies can not be used as an anchor for illegals, they must be deported with their parents and they can use the legal process to get into this country.
The next issue is to reduce the time it takes for legal naturalization. 8 years is too long, why can't it be done in a few months?
This Bill is the wrong solution, and one of the main sponsors is John McCain. Conservatives can see clearly why we can't for for McCain now.
If people knew it was hard or impossible to get jobs then the incentive to come would be reduced.
2. It will screw up the system even worse for those of us who play by the rules.
3. It will provide a whole new set of criminalized behaviors to give the the executive branch an excuse to exercise force against the citizens of this country, i.e. you and me.
4. It will raise taxes.
5. It will divert tax money into the pockets of the cronies of the government representatives supporting this bill. The rich get richer and we end up paying the friggin bill, assuming we can get the job.
6. The more databases the government creates to "manage" people, the more screwed up the data becomes, and the less capable they are of cleaning ANY of them up.
7. For what it's worth, I've yet to hear of an I.T. worker (or any other white collar worker for that matter) losing his or her job to an illegal immigrant. You just don't see a lot of ******** wearing 3-piece suits to work; although that might not necessarily hold true of snowbacks.
I use the terms ******* and snowback in their traditional meanings to describe illegal aliens who come across the Mexican or Canadian borders. You don't like the terms, too bad; they are both accurate and appropriately derogatory.
This specialized Nation ID Database Legislation is another bureaucratic government solution in search of a problem. I do not understand why the U.S. Congress wants to create any more massive new government databases then those they already have created, and why the government is so obsessed about trying to manage, quantify, track and control people who are ambitious, hard working self-starters who want to work for a living.
First, there was the [i]"No-Fly List"[/i] to protect us from the air traveling [i]"Bad Guys".[/i] Now [i]Uncle Sam[/i] and his [i]Big Brother,[/i] in their wisdom, want to create a [i]"No-Work List"[/i] to protect us from the hard working [i]"Bad Guys".[/i]
I, as a free market capitalist-employer, should have the business freedom to make my own [i]Hiring Decision[/i] from the list of employee candidates who show up at my H.R. Office ready and anxious to work, and not be restricted to using some list that [i]Uncle Sam[/i] and his [i]Big Brother[/i] has "blessed." JP B-)
Oh. Should I be calling them "undocumented immigrants"? I'm such a bigot! Thank god we have HR departments! :o)
- Just amazing.....
- by dragonfly8610 May 22, 2007 5:49 PM PDT
- I was born and raised in the US. Now my government is going to make me verify I was born here and have the right to work here. All because they didn't have the wherewithal to secure our borders and deport illegal aliens years ago.
- Reply to this comment
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- Bush had nothing
- by suyts May 22, 2007 8:01 PM PDT
- to do with it. This was a bill proposed by congress that has the support of the democratic side of the house. Do you have a better way to stop employers from hiring illegals? I'm listening. How do you determine who is suppose to be here and who is not without a database? Can you answer this or are you just another whining piece of ****?
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Showing 1 of 2 pages (150 Comments)And the scariest part is...if the illegal alien that is using my SSN to work here beats me to the punch, I may very well be the "illegal" being deported, or at the very least, being blacklisted and unable to get a job.
And all from a "conservative" government that has spent more money to cozy up to Big Oil than it has to make life better for our citizens.
Thanks, Bush, you piece of ****.