March 16, 2006 9:45 AM PST

Windows XP-on-Mac contest declares winner

A Macintosh enthusiast has apparently managed to load Windows XP on an Intel Mac, nabbing a nearly $14,000 prize.

For some days, there has been discussion that the person who goes by the handle "narf" had managed the technically challenging feat. Photos were posted on Flickr, and much debate ensued. However, narf's method had to prove replicable before the contest was officially ended.

On Thursday, though, the contest ended, and a winner was declared.

"Contest has been won--updates to follow shortly," reads a short message on the contest's Web site.

The contest, which has been running since just after Apple Computer announced the first Intel-based Macs, collected donations from individuals and companies to raise the prize money.

Listen up

Colin Nederkoorn talks about why he launched the XP-on-Mac contest.

Download mp3 (2.1MB)

Although both Macs and Windows PCs now use Intel chips, the task of loading Windows on the Intel Macs has proved more complicated, in part because both use different means of booting up. There had been hope that the next version of Windows would make things easier, but an Apple executive last week said booting Vista on Macs may not prove that easy, either.

The win comes just ahead of an end-of-month deadline that would have seen the money go instead to the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

The effort was launched by Colin Nederkoorn, who put up $100 of his own money, hoping his new Intel Mac would be able to replace his Windows PC. According to the rules, his Web site now has the rights to publish the solution. The solution appears to be available for download, though traffic to the site was heavy Thursday.

An Apple representative was not immediately available for comment.

Wil Shipley, who heads Mac software firm Delicious Monster Software, said he was "thrilled to bits" that the goal had been reached. Delicious Monster kicked in $1,000 of the prize fund.

"Although Apple doesn't talk about it, the market share for Intel Macs is going to increase dramatically when they can run legacy Windows apps, especially games," Shipley said in an e-mail interview. "It's truly the best of both worlds."

Shipley said he is pleased with the feat for both personal and business reasons. "As a gamer, I really appreciate not having to have a separate, crappy machine to feed my addiction," he said. "And as a Mac software author, every 0.01 percent market share that Apple gains for the Mac directly nets me thousands of dollars a year."

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127 comments

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Abuse!
I don't see why someone would want to abuse their Mac by making it run Windoze. Narf should be *fined* $14,000 for doing that!
Posted by andyengle (74 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Windows in a Mac
Believe it or not, there are some applications out there that only
run on Windows! I wouldn't mind having the capability for the few
times that I need to jump into Windows.
Posted by Not Bugged (195 comments )
Link Flag
Yes...
... WE know how sorry Windows is, but many people don't know any
better. They will soon learn when they see OSX vs XP on the same
hardware.

There are many legitimate reasons for wanting to run Windows on
Macs also, and millions of people will gain from this.

Despite feeling ill while using Windows it does have its place on
Macs - not least gaming and for proprietary apps.
Posted by TyTyson (154 comments )
Link Flag
OUCH!
Andy, I thought you were an ally! ;)
Posted by J_Satch (571 comments )
Link Flag
Virtual pc
Why the heck go the all of this trouble to make a beautiful Mac case
have a POS like windows in it? If a person really needs windows for
a specific app then run virtual PC on your mac a be done with it. I
am a MCSE and I make my money of dumb users because windows
isnt easy for everyone unless you are a computer person. heck my
little brother made a web page in a mac he's 10. Anyone who gives
OSX a fair shake will switch unless maybe you are just a gaming
geek.
Posted by jeepster40 (19 comments )
Link Flag
Windows on Mac! I want Mac-OS on my pc.
Where's the contest for getting the Mac-OS to run on my PC. I can't wait to get some real competition for that Microsoft OS.
Posted by driever (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
0SX86
osx86 has been floating around the internet for a while, but i dont see why any one would want to use it.
Posted by rawker (12 comments )
Link Flag
Dream on Peter!
The best you will get is botched hack jobs of old versions
without some functionality.

If you want to run the world's best consumer OS then you have
to buy a Mac. Got that? Good.

Oh - did you know you can now also run Windows on Macs?
*rolls eyes*
Posted by TyTyson (154 comments )
Link Flag
Screw that
"I can't wait to get some real competition for that Microsoft OS."

Screw that. As a developer I like having an OS 'monopoly' in place. It lets me create software for a single OS and reach basically all computer users. If it was 50/50, the same amount of effort only gets us half the customers. I dont care who has the monopoly, but old timers will remember the PITA it was back when there were a number of competing DOS's.
Posted by (402 comments )
Link Flag
agreed
I would love to tame a Tiger on my PC. -j-
Posted by nigeldogg (1 comment )
Link Flag
why would you want to?
What can mac os do that windows or linux can't? Theres really no reason to have Mac OS. You can get what you want on a regular PC with either Linux or Windows, except you don't have to pay extra for the hardware.
Posted by Bobman (114 comments )
Link Flag
Message has been deleted.
Posted by TyTyson (154 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Why would we weep?
We should be glad their marketshare has been rising. Competition is always good.
Posted by Charleston Charge (362 comments )
Link Flag
Message has been deleted.
Posted by SystemsJunky (409 comments )
Link Flag
XP/OSX on PC or MAC
Ty is clearly a Mac zealot and a bit of a bigot when it comes to PCs... but his statement:

Mac = OS X / Windows
PC = Windows

May not be entirely correct...
First of all, there is yet no commercial Mac that is dual booting OS/X and Windows... so its not really a choice.

Assuming it was, you could ALSO opt for a PC running OS/X.

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.inaniloquent.com/PermaLink.aspx?guid=dbfbfcef-f5ec-466c-871d-c402bc8d0ab0" target="_newWindow">http://www.inaniloquent.com/PermaLink.aspx?guid=dbfbfcef-f5ec-466c-871d-c402bc8d0ab0</a>

Folks... the Mac and the PC will be largely interchangable once Apple has moved through enough of its plan. Licensing will probably be the major hurdle.
Posted by William Squire (151 comments )
Link Flag
Old News
CNet was writing about this back in August when I first mentioned it.

The TMP chip could never have been a permanent solution.

Looking forward... watch for Apple products being offered by Dell... hang in there... The Apple will be just another flavor of PC.

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.inaniloquent.com/PermaLink.aspx?guid=dbad4003-5b93-430c-87e1-313f766c04c3" target="_newWindow">http://www.inaniloquent.com/PermaLink.aspx?guid=dbad4003-5b93-430c-87e1-313f766c04c3</a>
Posted by William Squire (151 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Mistake
You're confusing XP on Mac hardware with Mac OSX on standard
PC hardware. Not the same thing. The TMP chip isn't built to
prevent Windows, it's built to enable Mac OS.
Posted by djemerson (64 comments )
Link Flag
URL for website
How about including the URL for the website where the solution is posted?
Posted by (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
URL
how about there's a link in the story. in the case that you can't read the words "contest's Web site." with the whole blue text thing, then you should know it's at <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.winxponmac.com/" target="_newWindow">http://www.winxponmac.com/</a>
Posted by Amazingant (146 comments )
Link Flag
URL
I found the link in the article. How about making links so they are underlined? That is the standard.
Posted by (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Intel Macs and Windows
Does anyone really think Apple did not know this was possible
before the machines were released? I am sure commercial products
will soon follow. This may be the MOST briliant move in the saga
of Apple/Jobs. The big boys are finally face to face. May the best
man win. I wonder if they'll show the tussle on ESPN?
Posted by Mike Maffett (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
At last...
...the eyes of the Public begin to open.

Astounding how long it takes but the point is they get there in
the end....

Absolutely right Mike they knew about it. You reeally think these
babies haven't been running Windows in their labs for MONTHS!?
- this was a huge part of the chip decision in the FIRST place.
You will have to wait a few years for the killing blow but they are
on the road now.

Straight fight Windows vs OS X on the same hardware?

The game's already won.
Posted by TyTyson (154 comments )
Link Flag
Ummm...obvious?
I don't know if it was really obvious or not, but the statement,
"We will not prevent users from running Windows on Macs,"
seemed to say a lot to me. They just might not want to endorse
it because then there might be a battle over who supports
Windows users on Mac. While they did nothing to try to prevent
it, it also seems they did nothing to encourage it, aside from
switching to Intel in the first place. They use EFI instead of BIOS,
which seems enough like a good decision. Why degrade your
system for OS equality? That may be their thoughts. Let the
hackers take care of that. Why waste your time on it? Again, the
hackers will take care of that. You release yourself from liability
and gain all the benefits. So if the project fails, no harm done to
Mac. If it takes off, all the better.

My one concern is: if Windows becomes widely used on Macs,
would this discourage developers from developing software for
Macs? Sure, companies like Adobe would likely still develop for
both, but there may be some others who jump off the Mac
platform because they no longer see the need to stay with it. I
think it would be a dumb move, but they may see otherwise.
Posted by davesacre (21 comments )
Link Flag
Individual does what Microsoft can't
So this individual figured out how to get Windows XP to boot on an
EFI machine. This, just after Microsoft said that Vista won't boot on
EFI machines.
Posted by chabig83 (535 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Can't?
Or won't?
Posted by davesacre (21 comments )
Link Flag
Vista Boots EFI
Vista boots EFI in the 64 bit versions and probably will with the 32 bit versions aswell.
Posted by capfan12 (101 comments )
Link Flag
another dummy
um. it wont. you have to patch it. there are some stupid bloggers on the net.
Posted by stevebor1 (15 comments )
Link Flag
Look like the solution is quite complicated...
I was trying to access the original site but it is bombarded with requests and is down. But the excerpts were post on

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060316-6393.html" target="_newWindow">http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060316-6393.html</a>

The solution involves creating custom XP SP2 disk using an existing XP PC and custom modified files from "narf". Now, that to me is not a solution many pepople are going accept. I wouldn't trust custom modified files and install an already bug ridden OS on top of that.
Posted by indrakanti (90 comments )
Reply Link Flag
People are spoiled
People have gotten spoiled by the "pop-cd-in" and install OS method. Editing files is part of the fun. Not surprisingly some of the bootloader has to be different, but to the extent that people accept third-party apps on their OS they should accept this.

Heck, using IM software is more dangerous than this.
Posted by sanenazok (3449 comments )
Link Flag
64 bit
I'm confused. I was thought the intel dual core chips were actually 32bit?
Posted by km7 (15 comments )
Reply Link Flag
64 bit
I'm confused. I was thought the intel dual core chips were actually 32bit?
Posted by km7 (15 comments )
Reply Link Flag
They are....
nt
Posted by Earl Benser (4310 comments )
Link Flag
What's wrong with multi-boot systems?
I think its great - to finally be able to have one machine to have Mac, Windows, Linux and Unix booting off one set of hardware would be a great advantage to people who develop software for multiple platforms...
Posted by mcclurec (10 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Pop the bubbly Jobs!!!!!
Isn't it obvious that to run Windows XP on Mac Hardware, you have to buy Mac hardware? If this is going to change computing, Jobs has to be escatic
Posted by hahne59 (33 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Installing Linux
Installing Linux from scratch is perceived as more difficult than installing Windows from scratch only because normal users typically don't install Windows since it's preloaded when they buy their machine.

Installing a modern distribution such as Fedora or Ubuntu on a blank (newly formatted) machine is actually simpler than doing the same for XP.

Get the disk ISO images, boot from disk #1 (or the DVD containing it all), accept default values when you're not sure, select the applications you want in the GUI and a few mouse clicks later, you're done !

Give it a try: <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://fedora.redhat.com/" target="_newWindow">http://fedora.redhat.com/</a>
Posted by My-Self (242 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Sort of
I agree that getting Linux on a desktop PC is pretty simple, but the same still isn't the case for laptops. There's always some amount of module-related malarky to go through to get, for example, wifi cards to play nice or card readers to work. I don't think I've done a laptop installation yet that hasn't ultimately involved having to compile the kernel. Haven't had to do that yet on WinXP (although I sometimes wish I could).
Posted by JFDMit (180 comments )
Link Flag
XP on Mac: World fails to care.
I'm a bit sceptical about how much XP on Mac is going to help Apple. Sure, a few people will now consider buying Macs that previously wouldn't, but the mass market is so utterly driven by price that most ordinary users won't shell out the extra dough for what, to them, is just a pretty box. These users are also unlikely to even consider getting to grips with the technicalities involved in tweaking WinXP's installer scripts to work on Macs. Even if resellers start offering it preinstalled, most people will look at the pricetag and move on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a M$ fanatic, nor do I worship at the altar of Jobs. I own a few PCs (running an assortment of OSs) and a couple of Macs and, to be honest, tend to use the one I'm sitting closest to.

Being a geek, however, I will of course get XP installed on one of the Macs and sit in my local coffee shop with it, waiting for the adulation of the world to shower down upon me (yes, I am really that pathetic), but I don't believe for a minute that it will make a femtogram of difference to the PC marketplace.

My wife is my barometer of all things tech (insofar as she has no interest in it whatsoever). She uses a Mac in her editing job but, when she wants to work at home, she'll use whatever computer is in the room she wants to work in. It took her about five minutes to work out the differences between XP and OSX the first time she used a PC (extra mouse buttons, commands in different places, different menu bars) and then got on with what she needed to do. Beyond that, she couldn't care less what box she was using.

The only comment I've heard her make about computers (aside from "what IS the fascination these things hold for you?") was about a month ago in an Apple Store. "Pretty machines," she said, "why are they so expensive?"

That is the voice of the mass market: pretty machines, too expensive. We can spend all day talking about stability, security, component quality, ease of use and all the rest, but we'll be talking to ourselves. The market is on the other side of the room, looking at the $500 Dell.
Posted by JFDMit (180 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Has it ever crossed your mind. . .
that you are married to a shallow person?
Posted by J.G. (837 comments )
Link Flag
I agree
I agree.Use whichever is closest. Take away the words elegant,experience etc... it's just a tool.
Posted by km7 (15 comments )
Link Flag
Exactly!
Talk up anything all you want, bottom line, who dominates the market now? Who will continue to dominate the market for the next ten years? Who has NEVER dominated the market yet?

I suppose the underdogs must always pump themselves up.
Posted by zboot (168 comments )
Link Flag
'Polygamy' is overrated
My guess is that booting Windows on a Mac will quickly lose its
gaudy luster. Most Mac users are more than satisfied with OS X.
Most of us can afford to buy a Windows-compatible computer if
we need one. Then, there is the matter of whether booting a
foreign OS will actually result in worthwhile use of Windows
applications or something so kludgy that hardly anyone with
want to use it. Last, but not least, emulation software is much
more desirable than having to switch between operating
systems. When emulation becomes available, it will appeal to
those now enamored of dual booting.

In summary, the minority that tries to 'marry' Windows, as well
as OS X will regret its disloyalty.
Posted by J.G. (837 comments )
Reply Link Flag
I'll be darned....
.... an intelligent comment!

Keep up the momentum.....
Posted by Earl Benser (4310 comments )
Link Flag
Whoopee truckin' doo
don't care.

i use a computer to manage my finances securly. windows can't
offer me that without buying hundreds of dollars worth of extra
third/fourth party programs, and even those fail

i want a computer to just function, like a TV or CD player, and
Apples do that. Windows doesn't. sooner or later, a scrip error, a
driver is missing, malware runs amok. i don't want to be tech
savvy to run the damned machine, i just want to plug in a go.

i don't play games on a PC, so that's a non issue

and for ppl talking hacking OSX on PC, that's a challenge. I
wouldn't want to flash a ROM or RAM chip in an Intel Mac to
install Windows. I've seen Macs get messed up with flashing
when I tried to XPostFacto PPC units before the G era. not pretty.

congrats to the winner. maybe he can come over and play with
my copy of Virtual PC (which, from pictures at
www.register.co.uk 's reporting of the story, i think this guy is
just using VPC, till i see a video or proof better than what has
been provided.)
Posted by fakespam (239 comments )
Reply Link Flag
doh
You don't have to flash ANYthing - videos are freely availabale as is
the solution.

*rolls eyes*
Posted by TyTyson (154 comments )
Link Flag
Oh folks...
For those who are always so me-me-Mac-ish...
You're all beside the point, off the orbit when you Mac'Geeks'n ***** are talking...

Open your eyes, and leave alone the people who have to struggle with both OS!

Why bother fighting stupidely! If yes, if no, if, if,if.

The simplest solution, beside running a Mac is: why don't you get hold of a second hand machine to run Windows for the applications that won't on Mac, there's loads of them all piled up somewhere and just waiting to be crushed into waiste or be sent to the third world!!!

I recicled an old Compaq Deskpro(cost 0$, was going to the bin!), PentiumII 266MB /192 Ram, Win 98, as a typewriter and other funny simple things, but it won't even read a DVD! OK, don't laugh yet!

Then, second recicling: A Fuji-Siemens Lifebook,(cost 0$, was going to the bin too!) Celeron 0,3 GB / 160 Ram, stuffed with XP Home, half Office + Macromedia and equiped with USB PCMCI card and a DVD Reader/Writer dual Layer. Now this is the funny thing, it burns a dual layer DVD 8,5 Gigas which is about twice as big as its own HD!!! in only twice the time my big machine 1.7GB /1.5 GB am is doing it!

All of that for very little extra money! A couple of extra Ram + 1 USB PCMCI card + 1 DVD Reader/Writer dual Layer

A lovely network keeps all these machines in touch... and it's open enough to welcome any guest coming home with another router/switch for 8 more!!!

Naturally plenty External HD space (Sorry, video editing...)

Compatibility, no problems, just one thing, disable all the components not needed and configure the soft with minimum requirement, etc.

Why don't you use some nice soft to clean &#38; tune up your machines!!!

Why don't you learn to able/disable the antivirus while not online? You'll be surprised to see the machine fly...

Of course each machine has its own ghost done with all the main progs, drivers and settings...

It's not so hard after all! Guys, use your heads!
But maybe it's asking too much in this world of ready-made, pre-chewed everything!!!
Posted by ericchappuis (6 comments )
Reply Link Flag
You don't seem to get it
Yay, you got free machines! Good for you. However, how much time did you spend searching through the recycling bins? How much time did you spend configuring your systems the way you want it? How much time did you spend developing the knowledge that you have to do what it is you've done?

Sure, it's easy enough for you to say "It's so simple!", but 90% of computer users don't have 1/10th of the amount of time that you must have spent when you add it all together. They don't have your computer savvy. They've got numerous other things that they can spend their time on.

I'm not trying to put down what you've accomplished, I'm a little envious to a certain degree that you were able to get all that free stuff. Yes, I am a self admitted computer geek myself (and I am EXTREMELY happy with my Windows based computers, and in no way have ANY need for Apple products), but I am also cognizant of the fact that the AVERAGE computer user just doesn't have the TIME to spend on the types of things you're doing just to 'save' a few bucks.
Posted by TMB333 (115 comments )
Link Flag
Sticks and stones
"And as i have said, this is not outside the range of a skillful hacker."

No, you've said that it's impossible. You've said that the only reason OS X runs on a windows-type PC is because people are running the developer release. You've said many things, but nothing like this.

"But anyone reading the 'instructions' to get a 10.4.4 or 10.4.5 OS running will not bother unless he is a real certified geek."

Unless you download the pre-patched DVD-image that installs just like a Mac OS X restore image from The Pirate Bay.

"And then the question remains, it says 10.4.4 oe 10.4.5, but how much is really there compared to what an actual Mac has? I don't know the answer to that one."

Wow... Earl Benser admits that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Yet he's made such authoritative pronouncements about OS X on PCs.

"But the point remains in general that OS X on the PC , if it works at all, is nothing anyone less that a professional PC OS person
would want to tackle. And the very limited number of successes make OS X on the PC just a curiosity, not anything significant,"

Come on Earl, you're beginning to sound like a Holocaust denier.

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?s=b36f5dd2544e87dc83299c4732d9b409&#38;showforum=60" target="_newWindow">http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?s=b36f5dd2544e87dc83299c4732d9b409&#38;showforum=60</a>

It exists. A sizeable community is running it. Of course that community is primarily made up of "geeks", because good 'ol Steve-o has no interest in taking on Microsoft in the real world. Instead, he and he alone clings to the utopian vision that he can sell software and services tied to commodity hardware sold under his label. Microsoft never did it, Linux never did it, Sun and IBM abandoned it... the list goes on and on.

"By the way, your links claiming the MacTel is just a PC were worthless. Either they didn't even address the issue, or you couldn't tell which of the group of messages was relevant. And,
I'd have to think that if the MacTel just was a PC under the hood, Maxxuss wouldn't have had so much trouble getting anything to work."

Would you have trouble driving my car into work Earl? I believe so, because you don't have the key. Your inability to grasp the concept of signed code and patched binaries is simply shocking.

"But that's okay. I assume you aren't called Junk Junk for nothing."

Weak. Grow up and get yourself an education.
Posted by (39 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Grow up and get yourself an education....
I did . You should.
Posted by Earl Benser (4310 comments )
Link Flag
It is good news for some, but not for the average Joe
The fact that you have to compile the installation disc, leaves the
average user out of the equation, but it is good for all the geeks
out there... like me perhaps... but my point is that, if a company
would buy this proyect, they would make a lot of cash out of it. Can
you imagine MS buying it? ...oops! I forgot they ruined VPC... well,
some other company, marketing it in a full install DVD or CD in a
Pakage with all the requirements and stuff, I`ll buy a copy. Not for
games nor mail or anything like that, just to see how the
homepages I make look with Windows browsers.
Posted by rleon (111 comments )
Reply Link Flag
WARNING!! WARNING!! for mac users doing this
**A warning to all the Mac users out there**
If you want to try this on your Intel Mac then please remember the following - theres something you may be unaware of;

"please disconnect your internet connection to your Mac when first starting up Windows. This well stop you from getting Spyware! and the possibility of you being 'hacked' before you get your AntiVirus software installed" lol
Posted by smileykindaguy (3 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Good advice
I also would like to have some more tips from Win-ppl, because we
do not know anyrhing about viruses and vulnerabilities... we have
no experience, I meant, we haven`t have that experience.
Posted by rleon (111 comments )
Link Flag
I don't think...
... a consumer will buy a Mac to install Windows on it anyway. This is a useless effort for the glory of the geeks. There's no commercial value.

A consumer chooses to buy an expensive Mac because it is highly likely that he/she doesn't want Windows or Linux.

Congratulations to those who wasted their time and money.
Posted by Mendz (519 comments )
Reply Link Flag
 

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