Will your PC keep pace with Vista?

(continued from previous page)

Microsoft is readying a second tool, currently called the Windows Upgrade Advisor, that will take a look at a PC and make recommendations on how its performance can be enhanced to run Vista better. The tool is most likely to recommend more memory or an improved graphics card, said Dave Block, a senior product manager in Microsoft's Windows Vista unit.

"Those are the ones that are most important and the easiest to solve," Block said in a brief interview after a presentation at the Intel Developer Forum.

Although Vista is months away from launch, Microsoft has yet to give much in the way of specifics on what hardware will be needed. Thus far, the company has suggested 512MB of memory, a graphics card with a Vista-specific driver and a modern processor.

Microsoft has given hardware makers a bit more to work with in the form of the Vista logo program. This lays down guidelines for what capabilities are required for a new PC to display a "basic" logo (the machine is equipped for Vista) or a "premium" logo (the computer is designed to take advantage of Vista's new features). However, Microsoft has stressed that standards for the program are not necessarily indicative of the final hardware requirements for the OS.

Analysts have said that, for all but a basic Vista system, at least 1GB of memory is probably a necessity. That means consumers who have purchased a PC in the last couple of months might need an upgrade.

During February, about a quarter of notebook PCs sold at U.S. retail stores shipped with 1GB of memory, while nearly 57 percent came with 512MB, according to Stephen Baker, director of industry analysis at NPD Techworld. On the desktop side, about half of all desktops came with 1GB of memory, while 35 percent came with 512MB.

However, Vista also puts a premium on memory throughput. That capability hinges on the speed of the memory chip used in a system, as well as whether it offers "dual channels" for data or only a single memory channel.

Bhavnani said that the ratings are a good idea overall, but may create some challenges in the short term, especially when it comes to people upgrading the operating system on a computer, as opposed to buying a new PC with Vista loaded.

"You might buy a (Windows XP) system today and go buy a boxed version of Vista in November and get a (rating) number of 1," Bhavnani said. "Even though you just spent a grand on your notebook, you need to go spend $200 on your graphics card."

While it is important for PC owners to know whether their system can handle Vista, most people running the OS will be doing so on new machines, NPD's Baker noted.

"Even if they sell 5 million (upgrade) copies, that's still only 5 percent" of consumers with PCs, he said.

[Budlong]

Why not 1 to 10?

In today's world, where "On a scale of 1 to 10 how do you rate..." is almost a dictionary term, why in the world would Microsoft choose 1 to 5, and then do sub-ratings in a different scale? Makes their claim of trying to simplify sound fishy.

[chuchucuhi]

phew

ya know 10 is a big number, hehe. Maybe they figure just enough so you can count on one hand.

[David Arbogast]

Are you serious?

Man... some people can find ANYTHING to complain about when it comes to Microsoft.

Hey... my system scored an 8.5527 on your 1-10 performance scale... That's pretty close to 9... do you think I can run Glass? I know it says I need 9, but I'm really close... don't you think?

I like 1 to 5 better anyhow.
Fewer steps between "good" and "bad" means simpler and more appropriate summary analysis.

[saska01]

The ratings scale, not the metrics

The answer is that as hardware continues to improve, newer systems will eventually have overall ratings higher than 5. It isn't a measurement within a scale of 1-5; right now an overall 5 is the highest rating assigned to currently available hardware, but in time that number will increase.

[itworker--2008]

Screenshots

I wonder if that's a real CD key that's been activated?

[open-mind]

My Mac Mini goes to 11.

Any Spinal Tap fans here?

Seriously...

This concept is a stupid idea on so many levels. And not just because it's from Microsoft. It would be equally stupid if applied to Linux or OS X.

You can't characterize the performance/value of any complex machine with just one number. Especially a machine used for many functions, where the standards of excellence are rapidly changing.

Doesn't matter if that machine is a car, or a building, or a computer.

I suspect this idea got hatched by some big-shot in MS marketing. Then some poor tech-flunkies were told to "make it so". This is going to fail so bad, it's not even funny.

[1st]

rat rating

5 possibly the only rating marketing guys can count with help of
one hand.. (no alien in the group). Just wondering if the same
program can be used to count software rating: turn off the graphics
use text only rates for 5max, get rid of some spam check at
background gets improved rating...etc.etc. would be nice to know
how fast we really can run the computation without the overhead ...
Love to know why microsoft application is sooooo slow, like ppt..
disable all the stuff that usually "hang" CPU would be nice...

[Adventure Seeker]

Potentially useful benchmarking

The author seems to think that this system rating will only be
useful when one's in the process of purchasing a computer from
a retailer or choosing software. I think the author is missing the
point about the benefits of having this rating system on a
computer that has already beeen purchased. If you have an
existing system and can rate how well it runs Vista with a sub-
rating for each component, you will know whether your system
can utilize a system's features well enough to run all of the
features or have the need to turn some of them off. After turning
off certain features (or on), you can run the check again and
have a performance comparison (benchmark) for the different
settings. Also, you can analyse the bottlenecks in your system's
performance and determine what component of your system
needs to be upgraded to improve the overall system
performance. I wish my current system would tell me where the
weak link was on the hardware level, so I could either choose to
improve it, if it is a big bottleneck in an otherwise quicker
computer, or leave the system as-is, if the components are fairly
well matched.

[ServedUp]

Will my PC keep pace with Vista?

No it won't, and I'm friggin not buying another machine to run it
either. I'm fine with XP its secure as its ever going to be on my
current machine. I don't see whats the hassle in upgrading
either. Don't get me wrong I'm curious to see how it looks
upclose and personal but really if I have to shell out more cash
to buy another machine to run this, why should I? Its just
another version of Windows and it runs the same appz. What
for?

Maybe Windows Live can give me a reason... but it seems like its
all hot air on the part of the "MS Marketing Machine."

Besides why would I want to do that, when I can get a brand new
machine from Apple running the original OS X for my money.
Atleast I have two machines doing different tasks. That seems
more lucrative than buying another Windows machine. Vista is
such a sham.. my belief is, is that its not secure as its touted.
Look at XP when it was released it was suppose to be more
secure.. was it? Granted it is more secure now.. but it wasnt
when it first came out.

Until Windows Live can establish itself as a good online service..
truly there is no reason to buy Vista..

Unless well, your bored.

[ordaj]

A Microsoft hardware tax?

We can "guarantee" you your hardware will get a 5, Mr PC Maker, if you just pay us an extra fee. 4 will be the highest anyone can get otherwise. Oh, and those white box makers? 2 tops. wink wink nudge nudge

[wakizaki]

Who Cares, Window$ Vi$ta is just a lot of eye candy

Vi$ta is just a whole lot of eye candy, a real hardware hog. All I need is an lean, mean, stable, customizable and open source OS can run on new and old systems, and surely it's NOT Window$ Vi$ta.

[mtnbiker]

Linux= OS/2

LOL,Linux users are like OS/2 users in 1996 that said Windows was going to be dead by 2000 .

[Stating]

What An Incredible Piece Of Bloatware

Why one earth would average Joe User need so many computer resources just to do basic tasks on their computer? We're not talking about mapping the human genome here for Christ's sake. Computer hardware is already getting too expensive for a lot of folks. How are computer vendors going to absorb the cost of an extra gig of ram, faster processors, faster hard drives, and faster graphics cards without passing it along to the consumer. Dell's going to have to yank the 1 year warranty and charge $200 for shipping. Is that $650 entry level laptop now going to cost $1,000? Or $1,200 if you want it to actually run well?

I've got customers running a 20th century OS (Windows 2K) on 20th Century hardware (P4 128 meg ram) and things are just dandy. Now all of a sudden, a mere 4 years later, they need 8 times the resources to do the same things? How is this progress?

[mtnbiker]

Why would you need more than 640K ?

That is what Bill Gates said in the early 80's about how much RAM a PC would need and your comment is wrong just like his. XP came out Nov 2001 and it required hardware that was very common back then and when Vista comes out Dell will be selling $650 laptops and $450 desktops that will run fine with Vista. If your customers computers run just dandy with a P4 128 meg ram on Win2K then what is the problem ? Why would you want to change the OS if there is no problem ?

Calculations?

The part I found interesting is that in the screen shot, the average of the scores presented is 4.1, yet MS rated the system as a 3. They probably apply different weights to different components, or maybe they just take the lowest value. Could it be an effort to get people to upgrade the systems?

[i_made_this]

Endgame

The history of business endeavors repeats itself in such incredibly consistant fashion. Ford & GM invented planned obsolesance, the buyer cried foul, the industry failed because Ford & GM's could not keep up with the buyer's simple demand:

keep it simple stupid, make it right the first time out of the gate, make it trouble-free on an on-going basis because we simply don't have the time to all get under the hood of your cars let alone understand alla these weird names you apply to alla the stuff there and in five years call us when you have a better quality mousetrap to update this machine.

Yesterday's monopolies are today's bankrupt laughing stocks. Get a grip and break alla the rules by rethinking the basic premise:

>K.I.S.S. cause you bore and confuse us.
>We don't want 700 New Once A Year Models of one fundamentally simple S.K.U. cause your so-called MBA-nonsense *product differentiation* is transparent marketing jive.
>Think of our needs first and derive all the rest top down from there or else we guarantee we shall rebel against you.
>Minimize the bloody fine print which your attornies painstakingly write (and which we pay our hard earned dollars for) in order to warrant the same old thing different day: *We guarantee nothing and you are screwed. Sorry but that's life.*
>Deal directly with us and not thru intermediaries who reconfigure your technology to bloat your product with no added value whatever (actually, a great deal of harm) and are not of the slightest interest to us. Us is the folks who ultimately pay your revenues. Do it all or forget it, we ain't interested.

Google knows all of the above and is putting together the ultimate solution. They will build the product all-inclusive, at a reasonable allin price and the buyers will come.

Short MSFT because it is endgame
Long GOOG because it does it right from the getgo or not at all

Just my view on this forest for the trees. It's time for something completely different by the only party who can put all of this together in one package that will work at 7th Sigma quality and inexpesnive price.

Google has put all of these jokers out of business though they haven't seen it yet. By *jokers* I mean Microsoft at the fore and those who have created a no added-value industry around Microsoft's illogic basic premise of business.

Pls don't flame me. I will accept C|NET's bet that this op-ed post will prove correct when they reprint it in 25 years' time verbatim. It's my view that C|NET bless their souls are shrewd enough journalists to not accept this bet.

Microsoft - you bore the hell outta us, so we have decided Google will put you out of business if this American technolgy is to survive let alone thrive.

[end of rant]

[Mallardd]

$200 on a notebook graphics card?

....Bhavnani said. "Even though you just spent a grand on your notebook, you need to go spend $200 on your graphics card."


I think it should be "you need to go spend another grand on a new notebook with better graphics capabilities."

[ddesy]

Not always...

There are some laptops out that have the ability to upgrade video cards. The unfortunate thing is that this would be too complicated for many laptop users to do.

[fakespam]

Hasta la Vista

Vista is crap.

Will the common user of the current era buy it?

Mr. Win 95 still running his 486 and using AOL dial-up won't.
He's fine being stuck in the past with that machine, Office 97,
and not burning CDs.

Mr. Win 98 still running his early Celeron. He's got some USB
devices, and has updated his computer pretty well. He's happy
running Office 2000 and making an occasional CD.

Mr. Win ME . . . they can't figure out why only AIM and Yahoo!
Chat works well, but overall, they don't care about anything too
much, just online, online, online.

Mr. Celeron XP, the majority of current computer users thanks to
Wal-Mart and Target . . . a Vista programmer told me it can't run
on these machines . . . that's rude. They use iTunes, they steal
movies via P2P, they emulate, they burn DVDs and CDs like the
DIckens, so forth and so on, yet they do it all on 128 MB of RAM
and lack a video card with any RAM to speak of. They don't care
about anything except, like the ME user, online online online.

Mr. Geek . . . he will get Vista to work on hardware it's not
supposed to. Amazing. 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of sales. And he'll
crack Vista to boot.

So, who's Microsoft shooting for? PCs sales, in reality, are
declining (comparison of numbers since 1993) because most do
what the average user wants: Office, chat, porn sites, P2P, and
MP3s.

[Stating]

re: Hasta la Vista

Couldn't agree with you more. Recently loaned an HP Omnibook (circa 1995, 100% made in USA) running Windows 98, Opera beta, and Yahoo IM to a friend. Her expensive Gateway laptop was in the shop for repair. She liked the Omnibook's small size and solid feel, and was able to stay connected with the world while Gateway did their thing. Of course, they only repaired one of two problems, so it will be going back to the shop yet again, and she'll be using the 1995 100% USA made computer running ancient Windows 98 on 96 megs of ram. I told her I would consider trading her the Omnibook for the Gateway, but in retrospect I think she would be getting the better of the deal.

[ddesy]

Quite right

You hit the nail on the head! Your breakdown of the user types matches the spread of average users that I know.

That is, other than Windows ME users. I can count the number of ME users that I know with no hands. That's right, none. Thank God!

[Thunderbuck]

Ummm, you're forgetting something...

Microsoft doesn't particularly care if end-users upgrade to Vista. They don't have to. They have the OEM market to support them.

And while you've got a point with your user breakdown, it's beginning to dawn on the bulk of users that PCs can be great for TV viewing/recording, too, when they're properly equipped. XP Media Center Edition is pretty good for this, but Vista SHOULD be better. That's going to drive a LOT of upgrade business on its own.

[Vaasman]

Mostly right on

I totally agree with you except that you forgot about Mr. Gamer and Mr. Video Editor. Both of these constantly upgrade thier systems. Mr. Gamer is always after the fastest CPU and graphics card, Mr. Video editor wants faster CPU's and larger hard drives. Both might want Vista if it pushes the 64-bit world forward, as long as vista does not block Mr. video editor from doing what he wants. Otherwise it will be all Linux all the time.

[bhines5]

right on it

First off, I am a MCP. However, sadly to say Microsoft has lost touch with the average user. Vista DOES seems to be a geek-tech (me) OS. The majority of users are like, vista? Hasta la vista more like it. If I were a consumer, just shelled out $1000-$3000 on a PC or laptop and could not run Vista, I would be extremely pissed. These delays on Office and Vista mean one thing. BUGS, and plenty of them. Even upon release, the new packages from Microsoft will not be ready. Look at the history over the past 10 years, hell 5. Well enough about my rant, of course I have a MSDN subscription, etc so Vista will be available to me, so will Office, and everythign else. To the average consumer shelling out mad money on PC's and software, will not happen. I do not think people will spend keeping up with the "Vista's" instead of on gas for the cars, food, rent, etc.

[gcasale]

Dell....

I know some might not care but Dell is offering Windows Vista for $150 extra. I wonder which version are they offering.

[brokenantimatter]

Vista Beta Tester

My computer is the epitome of hardware over-kill twin dual core Opteron 175, with 2GB of ram and 4GB of vram and my computer currently crawls on Vista and takes about 2 minutes to boot up(not including the bios) with nothing running. But on the same system XP Professional will load XP in 15 seconds with a lot of services running.

[Seaspray0]

Oh yea, well mine will boot in.....

Oh yea? Well, I've got an old Pentium laptop with 16 mb or ram and a 2 GB hard drive and it'll boot DOS 6.22 in less than 10 seconds. And I can even do better than that... I have an old 86' Atari ST with 512 KB of ram, an 8 Mhz motorola 68000 processor and a 20 MB hard drive with the OS on ROM that'll boot in 3 seconds.

Oh no! The older the get, the faster the booted!

[Earl Benser]

Get your money back....

...some one sold you a limited lemon.

I assume you have some knowledge on installing Vista, etc. so the
fault has to lie in the hardware.

[brokenantimatter]

You're an idiot

I am not sure if you were trying to be serious or funny? But you came off as an idiot

[saska01]

How the ratings scale will scale

"An open question is whether the system rating is a fixed score or whether it might change over time, as hardware advances."

In fact, this isn't an open question. It is clear that a scale whose metrics changed over time while the ratings remained static would not be useful to manufacturers of hardware or software or to the users.

The top end of the scale will continue to grow as hardware capabilities increase. This means that if a software manufacturer prints a box stating your PC must have a "3" rating in order to run the application, this will still be true in future years even as hardware advances. Perhaps your old "3" system will still be available for accounting, word processing and web browsing while you'll need a "7" system to run the latest immersive 3D gaming experience.

[bwallx]

the truth about memory requirements

There has been a lot of comment about Vista's memory requirements, much of it ill-informed. Vista has the ability to address vastly more memory than XP but this in no way means it REQUIRES so much RAM! It is an ability provided by Microsoft to address the needs of high-end users and to provide headroom for future memory hungry technologies.

To read accurate, insider information about Vista's memory management, visit my forum at

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://thevistaforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=171" target="_newWindow">http://thevistaforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=171</a>

[duke12aw]

directx 10

the only reason i will get vista is for gaming. direct x10. im not an M$ fanboy, but they are forcing gamers like me to upgrade to play the latest games.

[d420mofo]

ppl are f'd up

you all are mofo idiot create a os with a memory that u don't have to reley on

[rayjay19692]

vista new system tool

It still only see the system board graphics, not my 256MB graphic adapter, and does not see my 250GB External wd Hard drive. So it still needs to be updated but at least they are trying. Just hope they don't ship the finished product before it has been thoroughly tested and most of bugs taken out, not like windows millenetium, like i recommended and almost lost my job doing so. keep testing till you get it right.


ray