Version: 2008
  • On CHOW: Make your next sandwich perfect

January 31, 2008 4:00 AM PST

Perspective: Why Real ID is a flawed law

See all Perspectives
Why Real ID is a flawed law
Related Blogs

DHS: Real ID could help shut down meth labs


January 16, 2008

Homeland Security proposes delayed Real ID rollout


January 11, 2008
The government claims that driver's license "reform" will help combat illegal immigration and generally protect national security, but it fails to acknowledge that the Real ID Act seriously threatens privacy and civil liberties on a national scale.

It's been nearly three years since Congress passed the act, and the Department of Homeland Security just published final regulations to implement the law that will change the way state driver's licenses are issued.

Of particular concern is the department's flirtation with a central ID database. The final regulations, released January 11, strongly support leveraging existing technology by expanding the central database for commercial drivers to include all drivers and state ID card holders--that is, virtually every American.

Following this path of least resistance fails to acknowledge that the security risks of a central ID database are enormous, as is the potential for abuse by government and business. Security experts agree that creating a "one-stop shop" of highly sensitive personal information on millions of Americans, not just a relatively small pool of commercial drivers, is a bad idea. It would be an irresistible treasure trove for identity thieves, terrorists, and other criminals.

The law's basic goal of making the driver's license a more reliable assertion of identity is a good one. Setting minimum federal standards to make the issuance process more secure so that it's tougher to get fake driver's licenses or hold multiple licenses from different states is not unreasonable.

The ostensible purpose for a centralized repository of ID information is to enable states to more easily check whether new applicants already have a driver's license from another jurisdiction, thereby ensuring "one driver, one license." But this can be achieved without creating a central ID database that puts Americans' privacy and civil liberties at risk.

Building a distributed system that stores ID information in different locations, such as state motor vehicle databases, makes more sense. Each state could check with other states for possible existing driver's licenses without having to ping a central database, while maintaining control over its residents' data. This is technologically possible, especially if states have adequate funding to scale up their systems to handle the incoming traffic.

Regardless of whether ID information is stored centrally or in separate databases that are accessible via a central portal, an equally important question is who would have access to the ID data and for what purposes?

Regardless of whether ID information is stored centrally or in separate databases that are accessible via a central portal, an equally important question is who would have access to the ID data and for what purposes?

If it is run by DHS or otherwise deemed a "federal" system, some limitations would be placed on the U.S. government by existing federal privacy and security laws. But these laws may still need to be bolstered in light of Real ID.

If run by a private organization, as is the current commercial driver's license database, federal privacy and security laws may not apply. Nor would the much-touted--though still weak--Driver's Privacy Protection Act, which only regulates how state motor vehicle departments disclose personal data to government agencies and commercial entities.

Thus no robust legal framework exists to protect the personal information that would be held in the centralized ID system envisioned by DHS from misuse by government and business. Allegedly, the Department of Transportation and other federal agencies already regularly access the privately managed commercial driver's license database with virtually no oversight.

And neither the Real ID Act nor the final regulations prohibit the recording of individuals' transactions in the central ID database or the skimming of personal data from the card itself, both of which would facilitate intrusive tracking by the government and unsolicited marketing by commercial entities.

The law mandates that ID information be digitally stored on the card in a standardized format, but neither it nor the final rules include encryption or other security requirements. There have been news reports that some businesses are already collecting personal data from driver's licenses using commonly available readers without patrons' consent. A national standard would make this even easier.

Supporters of the Real ID Act shamelessly exploit the contentious illegal immigration and national security issues as political cover for what could evolve into much darker government uses. Legislation has already been introduced in the Senate and House to address some of these concerns.

State legislatures are also speaking out against Real ID. Seventeen states have passed legislation rejecting Real ID, and in 22 other states such legislation has either been introduced or has passed one chamber.

The ideal solution is for Congress to revisit the fundamentally flawed Real ID Act. But even if Congress doesn't act to repeal the law or otherwise attempt a fix, DHS has a responsibility--and the statutory flexibility--to build strong privacy and civil liberties protections into its regulations to ensure that the implementation of Real ID doesn't do more harm than good.

Biography
Sophia Cope is a staff attorney and the Ron Plesser Fellow at the Center for Democracy & Technology in Washington, D.C. Among other issues, Cope focuses on the privacy implications of government identification programs.

More Perspectives

See more CNET content tagged:
driver's license, Real ID Act, law, privacy, database

Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 3 pages (112 Comments)
Get rid of the SS database too?
by Dr. StrangeOne January 31, 2008 5:42 AM PST
I like how these so called "internet" attorneys are always attacking law enforcement efforts under the ruse of privacy.

When is the last time a liberal attacked Real ID as not sanctioned by any power committed to the Feds under the constitution? Never! hahahaha

Go drink your KoolAid Ms. Cope.
Reply to this comment
is the SS database 'better'?
by decster21 January 31, 2008 8:30 AM PST
Since it has been acknowledged there there are "legal" duplicate
SSN for citizens, how valid is it?
example..everybody in witness protection gets a 'new one'...which
is unrelated to the 'old one'...
for most of the last 70 years, it took little effort to obtain a
number, which was not necessarily 'secure'...and was (as printed on
that piece of paper) never planned to be an identity tool anyway.
Trust No One
by rcrusoe January 31, 2008 6:31 AM PST
Federal, state, and local governmental agencies, as well as many
large corporations have proven themselves incapable of keeping
data on their citizens and customers safe.

Incompetent managers allow it to be taken home on laptops and
disk. Or stolen due to poor network/security design. And let us
not forget that the rule of law is frequently suspended when
someone chooses to hang "national security" on whatever illegal
activity their agency is caught doing. So you know they won't be
able to keep their hands off of the data.

And Federal agents have even been known to use Dept. of
Homeland Security databases to stalk their girlfriends.

I agree. Real ID is a bad idea.

http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticle.jhtml?
articleID=201807903
Reply to this comment
In Ohio, interns take the DB home....
by likes2comment January 31, 2008 6:38 AM PST
on their laptops in their cars, which sometimes get stolen like what happened in 2007. Opps. And then the intern is blamed and fired.
Reply to this comment
Were they supposed to?
by Glover65 January 31, 2008 9:43 AM PST
If they weren't supposed to take it home on the laptops then they should be blamed and fired. Do you have a reference for this story? Do you have a reference for the employee rules that govern the use of the data base they were working with so we can see what it says and where to place the blame?
View reply
The old saying...
by thedreaming January 31, 2008 6:38 AM PST
"Never put all your high ranking officials in the same shuttlecraft."

Putting everyone's data into one database for quick and easy stealing/searching is a bad idea.
Reply to this comment
One Database, is not really one....
by chash360 February 1, 2008 6:04 PM PST
I would hope that the implementors of this system would know that to properly manage such a system there would have to be some redundancy.

When they claim a single database, I am sure they are talking about a common uniform method of access to uniformly formatted local mirror of the database, and not a globally unique singlular computer, with a singular location and storage system.

No system admin would ever dream of such a singularity nightmare.

As for searching a stealing info, that happens already, in fact in my state you can go to the DMV and pay for a copy of the records. Solicitors, especially car dealers do this all the time.
I just like it for one reason.
by inachu January 31, 2008 6:43 AM PST
It keeps illegals from getting a drivers lic.

Anything else REAL ID is a bad idea.
Reply to this comment
it won't stop because of the money
by menotbug January 31, 2008 6:58 AM PST
they already don't pay taxes while collecting social benefits like
health care, schooling, etc... but the Real ID would merely
prevent them from entering Federal buildings and airplanes -
two places which they probably already shun. Basically I see no
benefit to the immigration situation from this. It's just
camouflage words for the real agenda of totalitarian social
control.

Right now, the Federal Reserve is actively causing the value of
the dollar to drop. When the big'ole Stimulus Package comes in
supposedly this summer, it will cause further harm to the
dollar's worth. To me, it looks like they are steering us directly
into economic collapse.
The solution? Get our buddies Canada & Mexico to bail us out
by forming a NAFTA union state with the "Amero" currency to
compete with the Euro. Connect the dots, people. Our country
is in danger!
View all 2 replies
Will it stop them from driving
by Lee in San Diego January 31, 2008 7:52 AM PST
Will it stop illegal from driving without a license.

How many illegals are going to go to a government agency, get
photographed, get fingerprinted, in order to get a drivers license.
What's on the card that would matter?
by doublethought84 January 31, 2008 7:54 AM PST
I mean.. AT&T throws out yellow books with everyone's number inside on your front doorstep. Once a year.

If I really wanted to, I could just open my eyes and look at you and determine your weight, height, and eye color.

I guess the world fears someone stealing your organ donor status. That's the only thing on my license that's not already somewhere else.

Bottom line is.. if you're not a criminal, this little card won't matter to you ever. Not one bit.
Reply to this comment
Let me see your papers
by The_Decider January 31, 2008 1:55 PM PST
"If you're not a criminal then ..." is the absolute worst argument ever and is always false.

Hmm lets see..

A card that you are required to have to gain access into certain places... Do you think that list won't grow over time?

A centralized form of ID? Worked well in the Soviet Union, sign me up!

Let's forget that this idea is un-american.

How does one gain access to this wonderful card?

By showing the very forms of ID that our always honest and caring government is saying is insecure to scare people into accepting it?

Yeah, that is "secure" and no one will ever fraudulently obtain one. Ever!

Of course, something man creates, can never, ever be counterfeited. </sarcasm>

Why don't you come up with one reason why it will be helpful and keep us safe and why it is worth giving up fundamental liberty for. To to try avoid misleading and illogical responses, your reason can not go against the constitution or the ideals that this formerly great country were founded upon.
Certain states require
by itango February 1, 2008 1:45 PM PST
your social security number, valid home address, birth date, certain health restrictions etc., in order to be issued a driver's license. So the information they collect is more than just "eye color and height".

With a birthdate, social security number, and valid address (no PO Boxes) identity thieves have all they need to steal your identity. A bonus is your picture and any other data they choose to collect.

And only one database for the entire US represents an irresistible target for criminals. Remember, for the last 5 years or so, the people hacking encryption software and stealing private information are no longer script kiddies or young adults having fun proving they can hack a system, it is hostile foreign governments, terrorists, and criminals looking for a steady source of income.

And the government and private industry has a very poor record of protecting citizens' confidential information.
by TheRealist19 January 10, 2009 10:29 AM PST
Well, you may not consider yourself a criminal but it doesn't me that one day, you won't be considered one by your own government for having "unpure thoughts" or "going against popular thinking"...i.e H.R.1955
RealID vs "national ID"
by decster21 January 31, 2008 8:17 AM PST
My impression has always been that this was an end-run...that is a
putative 'national id card' but without discussion which should take
place surrounding that concept.
Is the time ripe for such a set of identity papers? Perhaps, but let's
call it what it is, not a 'more secure' driver's license!!
Reply to this comment
Why stop there?
by sroussey January 31, 2008 8:35 AM PST
Why not limit the states as well, and let the counties be the holders if ID cards? Surely, with three states holding the majority of the population (and particularly the rich part), that is just as much as a risk. Reducing to the county level is the answer, an idea which the author must support.
Reply to this comment
What About The IRS Database?
by open-mind January 31, 2008 8:57 AM PST
Isn't that already a central database? Granted, it doesn't contain info on everyone, but it does contain the people that hackers/bad-guys care about ... those with money.

Has the IRS database been repeatedly hacked and exploited? I'm not aware that it has, other than for the tax system ... which is absurd in its complexity.

What top secret info is really in danger here? My address and phone number is already public. My SSN is pseudo-public.

Maybe I'm just sick of lawyers ... even pretty ones like the author.

Lawyers seem to like to block progress/efficiency by inventing all kinds of hypothetical problems. At least that's what they do where I work.
Reply to this comment
Don't get one if you don't want one
by Glover65 January 31, 2008 9:34 AM PST
Having a driver's license is a privilege, not a right and having one is not a requirement. If you?ve ever been in the military, ticketed, got a credit card (the list goes on and on) you?re already in several dozen data bases already. How much easier is it going to be to get the info already on these other data bases? If someone really wants to steal your info, investigate you or what ever, it?s going to happen. Not having a national driver?s license and data base, isn?t going to protect you at all, ever! Just decide which is more important, having a license or not having your information stored ?again? somewhere else. If you don?t want a license, don?t get one.
Reply to this comment
I totally agree!
by brittnay1210 January 31, 2008 10:09 AM PST
I agree with you 100%. What people don't understand is that their not even giving us the right to say NO to this ID card, and yet if we do, we can't even own a driver's license. That's Rediculous!
Reply to this comment
Did you see my coment "Don't get one if you don't want one"?
by Glover65 January 31, 2008 10:17 AM PST
You don't have a "constitutional right" to drive with or without a license. It is a privilege given by the owners of the roadways (states and federal governments). The people of each state have elected officials that have made laws requiring you to have a license to drive on those roads (owned by your state, you) for your safety.
View all 2 replies
That's what I meant, I'm a bdd speeler too :)
by Glover65 January 31, 2008 10:57 AM PST
Sorry I forgot to say "i.e." before the "you" in listing who "owns" the roadways. What you said is completely true and what I entended to impart. Thanks for the help.
Reply to this comment
What freedom are you giving up "Dude"?
by Glover65 January 31, 2008 10:58 AM PST
You have the freedom not to get a license.
Reply to this comment
And to drive?
by Tomcat Adam January 31, 2008 11:18 AM PST
What if I want to drive without giving up privacy?
View reply
Obviously you haven't tried to cash a check
by crash110513 January 31, 2008 12:17 PM PST
Or open a bank account or check out books from the library or
get a credit card or get a job or any number of other things that
all require you to have an ID are you high its not a choice
anymore you have to have an ID to live anymore what freedom
are you really giving up the freedom to live a free life due to
morons like you who say what are you really giving up I for one
hate the idea as a legal tax paying citizen who is not in trouble
with the law


Hitler did this before he killed all the jews
Russia did this when they took everyones freedoms
now on to america land of the free (well not really)
View all 3 replies
freedom
by Dalkorian January 31, 2008 12:55 PM PST
You have the freedom never to enter a government building. You
have the freedom ... uh, wait a second there ...

Some people just don't have the capacity to think. Glover65, try
China. They think like you do.
View reply
Security through obscurity? Really?
by Out Of Scope January 31, 2008 12:45 PM PST
So by this path of logic my California driver?s license information would be more secure if we broke up the single California database into THREE separate databases for northern, central and southern California. And who are these unnamed security experts that all agree with this idea?

I for one would feel more secure with a single centrally managed database that can be secured than depending on the unknown skills of 50 different state managed IT departments.
Reply to this comment
RE
by unknown unknown January 31, 2008 1:58 PM PST
A centralized database means a single point of failure. A DDoS attack by a bot net and the whole system is down, and with a distributed database security lapses in one place don't necessarily comprised the rest. It's not security through obscurity, it's building a more robust system.
View reply
Centrally secured?
by Leria February 2, 2008 9:57 AM PST
Apparently, you do not realize that one 'centrally secured' database is never going to be the case.

Maryland is supposed to have a 'centrally stored database' for driver's licenses, and what is it really? A whole bunch of COPIES of the same database all throughout the state in multiple locations.

Really, with the internet today, we do not need that anymore. They could have one database in a fortified building somewhere, but don't want to because of the exceedingly SMALL chance that the internet would go down.
You need to read a book
by drtyrell January 31, 2008 3:43 PM PST
http://www.danielestulin.com/?op=libros&idioma=en

It will reveal much of their plans to create a new world government.
This information comes straight from the source. Daniel Estulin has
predicted the sub-prime loan scandal and many others just by
reporting what the elite talk about in the most secret meeting held
every year.
Reply to this comment
Adolf, Saddam and BusHitler Agree!
by SpiritMatter January 31, 2008 6:55 PM PST
Bush, Saddam and Adolf agree that "Only criminals need worry about these important security laws."
Human nature is in all of us but their are some who become obsessed with what their neighbor is doing. They gravitate to positions of power where they seek to use legitmate laws to force their neighbors to conform to their particular religious moral and political doctrines and values. It is not random hackers who are looking for a quick buck that pose the greatest threat with Real ID. The threat comes from an organized group with a common religious and political paradigm, the self-righteous, we only want to make you do what is good for you, Big Brother liberty hating attitude and finally the power, through total information access, to find and force you and everyone else to conform or go to jail, be brain washed or eliminated. As the Mothers of Invention sang, "It can't happen here!?"
True peace and security will never come out of the barrel of a gun or through abandoning the vision our forefathers had of a nation that would create hope by recognizing and protecting the truths that all humans are created equal (and some are not more equal than others), and they are endowed by their creator (not a self-righteous Big Brother government) with certain unalienable rights.....

The Bush administration is following the playbook Hitler used. The slogan, "Arbeit Macht Frei" , "Work makes you free", was used to shame those who might question the government's policies. Shame is a powerful tool used by all controllers to get others to sheepishly comply. It led millions to their death. Likewise, the "Protect America Act" has a facade that would make anyone that loves America ashamed to stand up and question or disagree with government decisions, actions and unjust laws. Behind the facade is the dismantling of our hard won freedoms and the protective structure from abuse of power of checks and balances to power put by the wisdom of our founding fathers into the Constitution. If Hitler had the computer technology and information networking power that the government is putting in place today, hope and liberty would be long dead today.
Reply to this comment
Typical
by b_baggins February 1, 2008 7:27 AM PST
Your Democrat congress passed this law. So tell me again how it's
all Bush's fault?
Bush Psychosis
by ira_davis February 9, 2008 7:41 AM PST
The President proposes the Congress disposes. The real culprit in all of this is not the President but the two houses of Congress, which passed the laws. We have become a nation of crybabies unwilling to take responsibility for our own safety. If more honest citizens were armed and allowed to carry there arms all the time there would be less crime and terrorists and criminals would be in terror of the general populace. People would also be more respectful of others. The President will be out of office in less than a year and we will have an all new set of scenarios with the next President to cry about and to falsely place blame on.
Question
by Glover65 January 31, 2008 9:16 PM PST
I've heard serval people talk about this subject and read up on it after hearing about the Bildaburger group(?) don't feel like looking up)) on Art Bell's radio show. It sounded interesting. I haven't really heard or seen any proof that even if there were groups (no doubt there are dreamers out there) that wanted to become the elite, all powerful or leaders of the new world order, that they have the ablility or means to "take over". There are a 100 different "experts" that keep telling us there are a 100 different groups and they are going to take over a 100 different ways. Still it's an interesting subject especially for late night radio.
Reply to this comment
What is all comes down to
by MacHeads February 1, 2008 12:13 AM PST
Is security security security and proper controls.

As a french citizen i can mention we have something similar to
Real ID here and experienced close to no issues but many
safeguards had to be put into place to make it a secure system.

A) No one can modify records but a central ID authority that is
NOT regional nor local , checks about death and or
modifications are Human made to the database.

B) Database is only readable from certain point to point internal
networks heavily encrypted transport protocols on specific
network ranges using a variation of IPV6sec protocols and
sequentially changing DES3 Keys of long values.

C) Data consolidation is made by region (the equivalent of mini
states). Only crime sentences are being stored centrally and the
record is getting reviewed and blanked 10 years after sentences
have been purged and you are no longer considered dangerous
or harmful to others. You still have a record but it is not callable
at a moment's notice. Minor offences and dismeanors are not
filed under your ID and are wiped out after a commission
statement , this is peer reviewed and you can go defend your
case in court as well to obtain the order during public hearings.

D) The system is by itself heavily controlled and reviewed by
CNIL (civilian rights watch dog) all procedures are CNIL approved
. Biographical data is NOT stored or anywhere near accessible
on the card itself whose only content are your ID number and
checksum controls that make Des3 hash tables look nice.

E) Central Data access and correlation capacity is tiered and a
cop or a filed agent needs to get a court order to access
secondary and tertiary tier data linked to ID (this is where the
Des3 key is modified , after only so many accesses a new key is
generated and attached to your record logging who and for what
purposes and under which motivation your record has been
accessed). Top tiered access is only granted for sustained
terrorism charges which is a rare form of inquiry and
surveillance , takes many forms few of which are electronic
(considering all documents and all signals can be falsified and or
jammed helps in this field of investigation is a basic GIVEN).


RealID and the regulation around it is badly thought out and that
is the real issue at stake here and without proper watchdogs
your transaction records are accessible to hacks and or
overzealous malevolent agencies. Copy all the checks and
balences put into the French ID card and privacy will be enforced
. This system while far from perfect (it took me a bit to correct
my third first name on my ID , this is how i got to know more
than the average citizen about its makeup). But it has been built
with security in mind as well as privacy . A cop can't review your
transactional record without a court order in due form , nor can
a bank access any biographical data via reading your ID card
number or swiping its magnetic stripe. A government agent
might access under court order the biographical data attached
to your ID under a pending investigation and surveillance order
issued by a District Attorney (procureur de la républic) whose
decision can be countered by court after debate if the case is
raised , (lawful abuse are penal offences under our laws and can
lead to demotion of the magistrate).

The system while not perfect is defensible and has been under
pressure by present administration (Sarkozy's) to enable easier
access. Ethics commities within the security apparel opposed
the decision so did Assembly (Congress), Same from the Senate.

One of the real issues here is about how the security scheme
about RealID is lacking that data exchange is not securely
managed and that third parties that might have other goals than
pure security might have one stop access to your private data.
The answer unfortunately points that some federal agencies are
not being held in check by citizens in the exercise of their
powers and follow a power grab agenda over the country's
population under the false prestence of security.

Poor design of security procedures in databases ended in similar
situation as faced by the brits which exposed the records of 25
Million British citizens data. At the heart of that problem is that
England some can consider the 53rd US state has notoriously
wide use of M$oft related software which we all know here is
suspectible to security woes flaws viruses worms and the list
keeps growing. French security agencies knowing the growing
concerns over such infrastructures are moving away from
windows and have long kept use of client/server mini/micro
architectures for state mission critical applications with tiered
trust levels on the client/server trust relationship.

All of the above mentionned imply a total rethink not only of the
RealID act but of the security apparatus the U.S citizens would
like to live with without living in fear of the State whose missions
is also to enforce the respect of citizen's rights.
Reply to this comment
MSoft?
by alegr February 1, 2008 11:07 AM PST
While I appreciate your 'raconte' on the french ID system, in UK case, this was not MS fault. If you're not aware of that, Windows allows to implement very strong security policies. Assuming the network administrators/integrators know how to do that (it's not rocket science, though). And it's not MS fault that some bloke had permissions to extract the whole database to his computer.
View reply
So Much To Cover, sorry it's so long.
by lampietheclown February 1, 2008 3:09 AM PST
First of all the illegal immigration issue. Without this ID card, illegal immigrants can't enter a federal building, or drive. How many federal programs are they going to miss out on? Schools are local, unemployment is state, and the ID itself will be given out by the states. Welfare and social security are federal. Can you get welfare or collect social security without ever going into a federal building? Will it matter?
When a state decides to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens, and some already do, this all becomes a moot point, so no change for the illegals in the long run.
In the short run, they will have less federal help, and drive without licenses. No license means no insurance. We will all pay for that error.

As for data security, it will be broken. Who we blame isn't important. We can blame ourselves for letting the government put all our information in one database, with thousands of departments, organizations, and offices, on federal, state, and local levels able to access all of it.
The argument that one database is safer than 50 is wrong, unless you hold 50 drivers licenses. My info is in a state database. not 50 of them. That makes it less likely to be hacked, by a factor of 50. Well, maybe not 50, but the point stands. I would be very happy if my info was on a county database instead of a state database. It would be that much harder for anyone to access quickly. 50 data bases is a balance between easy access for law enforcement, and privacy. One database is as bad for privacy as thousands are to easy access.
The fact that the federal government has not publicly addressed the issue of who has access, and who maintains the system is a red flag that they don't think you'll like the answer. They have addressed that issue, I can assure you, they just don't want to tell us what they have decided until it's too late to stop them.

As for national security, gimme a break. How does this help? How many attacks have taken place where the terrorists didn't have ID, or needed to enter a federal building to work their plan? It's as stupid as putting metal detectors at the entrances of federal buildings after the Oklahoma City bombing. This has nothing to do with terrorists.

For those who say "don't get a license if you don't want one", I'd like to point out that this is not just a drivers license.
It is a drivers license, a travel permit, a pass to use government services, and a permit to get help from federal courts if you need to protect your rights. That's just for starters. Banking? Filling a prescription at the drug store? Writing a check at the supermarket? Applying for a job? The list will be added to, probably on the state level, once the dust settles. Face it, this card is a license to have rights. The ID in my wallet will expire eventually. What can I replace it with, even if I don't drive?
As a law abiding citizen, I will have the right to move freely about the country. I will have a right to address my government, and face my accusers... if I have my ID. Without it, I can't enforce my rights, because it would require entering a federal courts building. Copyrights? No. Freedom of speech? Not for me. Enter a Post Office to buy stamps?
In Roe vs. Wade, Jane Roe was not the defendant's real name, for her safety. That case law might not have ever taken place with real ID. I'm sure some people consider that an argument FOR the ID. Whatever.
This ID gives me my rights. All this time I thought they were unalienable.

There are so many other issues to consider, but the bottom line is this. Our rights and privacy are being chipped away at, in pieces small enough that not enough people complain about any one chip to stop it. The chips are starting to add up.

Lampie The Clown
Reply to this comment
Well said!
by EasyRyder February 1, 2008 7:13 AM PST
Well said lampie! The part about our rights being chipped away in small pieces is especially true. Ever since 9/11 (don't even get me started on that) laws have been passed to "protect" us from terrorists. Instead of helping, the Patriot Act was passed and that started the shredding of our Constitutional rights. It is important to note that NOT ONE member of Congress was allowed to view the bill before it's passage. These laws now state that if we brake ANY state or federal law we can be considered "enemy combatants" (terrorists), Section 802. So, if you speed and get caught, you can be considered a terrorist. Dam, sounds like Nazi Germany more so than America. Also, the govt can "disappear" anyone, just on the "say so" of the prez. This is possible because these new laws have done away with habeas corpus, which is the right to challenge the legality of one's detention. The govt can claim "state secrets" or use secret evidence to deny justice for people that are detained by the govt. The laws are real. The media purposely does not cover the new laws. WAKE UP!! GET INFORMED!! FIGHT THE POWER!!
Very well said
by chash360 February 1, 2008 12:24 PM PST
One truth you are going to have to accept is that the ID (regardless of its form) is what gives you the rights, because that is what proves you are a citizen of the US. This is not so bad as it may seem, its always been true, since the limitation of immigration. It used to be if you were here you are a citizen, but that was long ago. (this is in distinction from the inalienable rights that are granted regardless of citizenship.)

I worry about the abuse such a system could be used for, but our current system is already abused on a massive scale, it is possible to create a better system, but I don't think Real ID is it.
Just found this...
by lampietheclown February 2, 2008 1:20 AM PST
A document on implimenting the ID in the UK was leaked, and is at this link. Interesting stuff.
http://craphound.com/NIS_Options_Analysis_Outcome.pdf

Lampie The Clown
There ain't no such thing as an un-forgable document
by wlamia February 1, 2008 10:34 AM PST
Forgeries will be available for a price. There is no way that the database could be queried for every use proposed (I think....).

The suspicious will assume that the {card, document, chip, whatever} will be able to track our movements everywhere. But why???

ObQuote: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"
Reply to this comment
Showing 1 of 3 pages (112 Comments)
advertisement

Latest tech news headlines

RSS Feeds

Add headlines from CNET News to your homepage or feedreader.

More feeds available in our RSS feed index.

Markets

Market news, charts, SEC filings, and more

Related quotes

Dow Jones Industrials (0.02%) 1.66 10,573.68
S&P 500 (0.05%) 0.62 1,137.14
NASDAQ (-0.33%) -7.62 2,301.09
CNET TECH (-1.24%) -20.66 1,651.25
  Symbol Lookup
advertisement

Inside CNET News

Scroll Left Scroll Right