Perspective: Why Johnny can't code

Imagine being the parent of a 15-year-old sophomore at an elite high school who comes home with a report card ranking him near the bottom of his class in math.

Knowing your child will soon enter the same job market as his classmates, would you be concerned? Would you work with him to improve? Would you begin to question the way math is taught in school?

The United States got such a report card in December, when an international test ranked our 15-year-olds 24th in math out of 29 industrialized nations that belong to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Science skills of U.S. 15-year-olds fell below the 29-nation average, as well. These scores are a wake-up call to anyone concerned about America's economic future.

Highly skilled workers, trained in science, technology, engineering and mathematics, are the ones who generate breakthrough innovations that lead to productivity gains,

Research shows that the more mathematics beyond Algebra II a person has, the better chances of landing a job in the top 25 percent of earnings.

economic growth and higher standards of living. America enjoys a high standard of living, but we are falling behind in producing the technical talent we will need to sustain our economic leadership in the world.

Consider what has happened over the last generation. In 1975, the United States ranked among the top three industrialized nations for the percentage of 24-year-olds holding bachelor's degrees in sciences and engineering. Since then, 12 countries from Ireland to South Korea have leapfrogged the United States on this score.

Increasingly, America relies on foreign scientists and engineers to make their way to our shores, to the land of opportunity, to work in our labs and contribute to U.S. economic growth. By 2000, close to half of the engineers, computer scientists and life scientists with Ph.D.s earned in the United States were foreign born, according to the National Science Board.

Attracting the world's top talent can be good for our economy. Consider An Wang, who arrived in this country in 1945 as a 25-year-old from Shanghai. He quickly earned a Ph.D. from Harvard before starting a company (Wang Laboratories) that grew into one of the leading technology innovators and job creators of his lifetime.

Now, however, other nations are working feverishly to reverse their brain drain. More foreign graduates are taking their U.S. educations home. Others are choosing to study in countries perceived to be more welcoming in the post-9/11 world.

The public sector should revamp training, recruitment and retention efforts to raise the effectiveness of math and science teachers.

In spite of the recent recession or fears that engineering jobs are migrating overseas, the long-term job outlook for Americans with strong math and science skills is promising. Research shows that the more mathematics beyond Algebra II a person has, the better chances of landing a job in the top 25 percent of earnings.

The U.S. higher-education system is envied around the world, but we do not have the right K-12 education system in place to supply all the brainpower needed for innovative industries to flourish here in the United States.

One of my colleagues in the technology industry, Craig Barrett, CEO of Intel, explained why in an interview with USA Today last April: "25 percent to 30 percent who teach math or science in K-12 are not educated in the math and science they teach. If you are going to be an engineering major, you are going to need 12 years of solid math. What are the odds of getting 12 consecutive good teachers in a row if 30 percent of them are not qualified?"

To reverse these trends, we need a national commitment to math and science. We in the private sector should expand partnerships to improve K-12 math and science education and encourage more students to pursue technical degrees and careers. The public sector should revamp training, recruitment and retention efforts to raise the effectiveness of math and science teachers. Foundations should make math and science education a higher priority. And parents can do more, too. Every caring parent knows that reading to a young child promotes literacy. But how many parents know how to pass on the fundamental building blocks of math?

America should treat this international report card as a wake-up call to do better. Let's raise expectations. Coming in near-last is not nearly good enough.

Biography
Joe Tucci chairs the Business Roundtable's Task Force on Education and the Workforce and is CEO of EMC.

More Perspectives

[FocusedWolf]

School....

Hmm, i can't remember much of anything i haven't just recently studied for exams (i goto NJIT). But i do remember everything i ever choose to learn on my own...for ex. How to stay alive in first person shooters...how to make anything at all in c# (i learned c# to develop a (GOOD)server-browser for a videogame)...Hmm maybe i'm just obsessed with videogames :P

Hmmm.

Well, perhaps not you, but your colleagues in the private sector <br />are driving dollars away from public education by supporting <br />people like George Bush.<br /><br />Whipple and Channel One, vouchers and the magic of the market <br />are supposed to save education. That sort of thinking (along <br />with the absolutely stupid method of funding public schools <br />with property tax dollars - hey, let's keep the inner city kids in <br />the inner city!) instead of doing the real work of studying public <br />education in a fundamental way is what's keeping us from <br />succeeding at educating our youth.<br /><br />Stop whinging about your corporate tax burden, and start <br />supporting this country.

American Public Schools

Public schools are funded by city/county/state taxes with some <br />Federal funding. Home owners tax provides the biggest tax <br />dollars. Hoem ownership is around 69% in America.

AMERICAN ECONOMY HEADING DOWNHILL

Skyrocketing socialism, tax increases and exploding debts all red flag the end of the U.S. economy. Are you going to just sit on your butt and let this happen? A corrupt monopoly of lawyers are taking away your life. mensunion.org

corporate amerika

Our problem is a lack of a socialistic ideals, not an excess of it.

RE: Why Johnny can't code

Dear Mr. Ticci,<br />Unfortunately, I must agree with your assessment of the US educational system. I also must agree with the fact that reading to your child will help aid in literacy, and further I feel that I must point out that the responsibility to educate a child ultimately falls upon the parent(s).<br /><br />It's unfortunate; the foundation of our educational system has changed within a generation, it has left my generation reeling in shock. I can say that because I was a child in the 70's, and during my childhood there was an unsurpassed effort invested in the educational system. I grew up in that system and like so many other people of generation X, I expected that same system to be there for my children, but times change. The educational system that I expected for my children has evaporated, but what remains consistent is that the burden of a child's education is on no one but the parent(s).<br /><br />Best regards,<br /><br />Sean Gahan

comment from a top scoring country

Finland has scored at the very top of these recent evaluations in sciences and mathematics. We have implemented long ago many of the things you discussed. Almost all of science and math teachers have a masters degree (the standard) in sciences or mathematics. Most math teachers I think have masters in mathematics. Compared to Germany, which also did not do too well, and the US children in Finland do not tend to be segregated based on ability until after 9th grade. This perhaps helps and motivates the weaker students. A very large percentage of finnish students go to higher education also. Finland also invests over 3% of its GDP on research and development as rest of the Europe should do. <br /><br />I visited a junior high (7th grade) in California (near Santa Cruz) for a year. It was a very positive experience and I can especially commend the emphasis based on developing social skills. Math and sciences were too easy though, although I thought that the teachers were very good. In the first quarter I got 3.5 grade point average (after studying only 3 years of English) and my GPA was 4.0 afterwards. Although I think they gave me some slack in English (obviously) I believe other grades were well earned (I did very well in the tests, A+ sorts, and also surprisingly well in spelling bees). The experience for many exchange students going to US high schools has been identical. So I think that the subjects should just be harder. This was a very good school so I think that the teachers were mostly qualified (and more sociable than teachers in Finland, maybe because they were less demanding). <br /><br />So US schools should be better funded and teachers should be afforded more respect (and perhaps better salaries). Subjects should be harder and perhaps more homework should be given. Also I think that people start learning languages too late (although that does not seem to be a priority anyway). Howevewr a long as salaries in the US are much higher than in Europe for instance (for high tech jobs that is) I suppose brain drain will continue to happen.

[Roy Stewart]

USA Student Score Decline

response to Mssr/Mdm? Pekka Kohonen <br />Posted on: March 4, 2005, 5:25 AM PST<br />Story: A nation of dunces in the making? <br /><br />USA schools began a gradual decline shortly after ending school segregation.<br />Personally, I think that Segregation should never have existed.<br />Segregation did exist, and when segregation ended, tests were gradually 'dumbed down' to avoid hurting self esteem of students newly immursed in general curriculum.<br />Deterioation became such that a contemporary of mine, after becoming a High School Science teacher was told not to assign Homework to his students because they had never been assigned Homework and their frustration in dealing with Homework would just wreck their self-esteem.<br /><br />Currently, in Arizona schools, the bar on our 'AIMS' (general proficiency measurement) test has been lowered for the above reason.<br /><br />I have hephews that can neither read nor write!<br /><br />Currently in the USA, we have a massive influx of Hispanics. Originally Hispanics performed only the most menial of tasks, and while virtually all produce is farmed, cultivated, harvested, and packed by Hispanics; Hispanics have steadily advanced 'up the job chain', now having replaced almost all 'Anglos' in the Building Construction trades.<br />Point: My Nephews are qualified for only menial jobs, even basic Construction Labor. There are no jobs for them in these catagories, abecause the Hispanics will gladly work harder for reduced wages.<br />Factory jobs have collapsed! IT jobs have been out-sourced to India, as have multitudes of PR and/or customer service call centers. Employers grew frustrated with US 'graduates' who could not even perform basic telephone tasks.<br /><br />Roy Stewart<br />Phoenix AZ

[betelgeuse68]

Where's the motivation?

Tech jobs are being offshored like mad. On pure statistics alone, i.e. the fact that many people with science degrees wind up doing "tech work" which is not necessarily related to their degree would give me pause to tell any kid go gung ho over "science." <br /><br />Math, I can understand. To do business analysis.<br /><br />But the science aspect of it, big deal, largely a waste of time in my book.<br /><br />Not to mention that these days it seems many companies seem to patent the obvious in order to create the spectre of litigation with any competition that arises.<br /><br />Perhaps I'm jaded (entirely possible) but the missive featured in this article is falling on deaf ears here.<br /><br />-M<br /><br />PS: Someone with a BS in comp sci and 10+ years of experience.

[tsm26]

You sound jaded

I am a CS major with only 2 years of experience and not even graduated yet, and I have too many offers and jobs to even handle. In fact, I took a job away from an Indian firm doing some web contracting work because I showed them the benefits of actually having someone in the country doing it. Offshoring is overstated by people who lost their jobs to it. It is still only at 10%, and people need to adapt. We have a world economy. Bring something to the table that they can't offer. That is what American ingenuity is, and I think most CS majors don't have one piece of ingenuity or creativity in their body. They are robots who plunk away and then apply for two jobs and say there aren't any when they don't get it and blame the Indians, Chinese etc.

[tsm26]

Flawed Studies

Across the board these studies are almost absolutely worthless. When they have been peer reviewed, sampling flaws have been huge. Other countries have been found hand picking students, or having students from specialized schools taking the test. For example in Russia everyone goes to a specialized high school, so they took the sample from the math and science high school, NOT the English high school. In the united states they just take a random sample from a big inner-city usually. This makes these studies laughable, and any sociologist will tell you this. Everyone needs to calm down. Does our public math and science curriculum need to be improved? Yes, but it isn't as bad as everyone thinks. AND, our higher education absolutely blows away any other countries. I have seen first hand living away from this country for years.

Why JOE can't "code"

I love it when dim witted suits with marketing degrees purport to be experts in engineering when all they can do is cloaked used car sales.<br /><br />"He received a B.A. in Marketing from Manhattan College in 1968 and an MBA in Finance from Columbia University in 1984."

Low Advanced Math scores...so what!

At least that hasn?t been a problem in a great sector of technology in the last 20 years I've been in that industry where entrepreneurship is as important. I believe that few honest IT/high-tech professionals will disagree that their work has *at least* as much to do with creativity, pragmatism, communication and domain knowledge than pure Computer Science and Mathematics. We need to stop de-coupling the need for advanced Math in the technology and business sectors of American enterprise. To be successful country is more about attitude than aptitude. Not everyone is cut out to be a Mathematician and I?m personally glad. <br /><br />Great American high-tech companies of the caliber of Apple, Microsoft and Dell existed way before these suddenly-glorified foreign workers with ?strong? Math/CS academic backgrounds came onshore (and then offshore) in masses. In case you?ve been under a rock all these years, the American companies above were founded by people with no CS or Math degrees. <br /><br />I?ve had the pleasure to work with a car mechanic-turned-techie with only a High School diploma that could beat any Math/CS in troubleshooting anytime. In contrast, I?ve also worked with PHDs in Mathematics (Operations Research to be more specific) from India who could never turn academic babble into a real solution, and even less communicate these ideas down to those who could. <br /><br />Some of our youths are quite capable and have the aptitude for these specialized skills, and we should concentrate on them to fill the gap?which I bet is a lot smaller than we tend to think.<br /><br />BTW, I have a BA in business and have US patents from the technology sector and make 3 figures designing and writing software --I hate Math.

3 figures???

Let's see...3 figures. That means at most, you make $999.00 a year? I sure hope that's not what you meant. At any rate, this shows that America has far to go on educating its children.

Myth: big degree equals good software developer

I am a software developer for a medium size company in silicon valley. I possess only a high-school diploma.<br /><br />I have seen too many PHD's, MSCS, BSCS come through, and because they have no passion produce mediocre work, quit or are fired.<br /><br />We don't need sand baggers in software. <br /><br />There are 2 billion people in India and China, these countries are going to have more people passionate about the subjects they are studying. And we in the U.S. also have people passionate here about software as well.<br /><br />Education is a meaningless statistic in computer science (Bill Gates prime example) as most of the education is really on-the-job-training.<br /><br />It is an unproven myth that an advanced degree makes you a better programmer. Passion for the work is the key ingredient and then seek the knowledge (which you can easily google for, take part-time classes on, or self-study).<br /><br />Most business applications do not require Differential Equations. A little Calculus is okay, but most of it is statistics, algebra, and basic math.<br /><br />For other engineering areas, where lives are on the line, I can see the value of a good ethical education (Morton Thiakol prime example).

Remove this myth, let the passionate thrive and youth'll follow.

And this myth is contributing to the outsourcing trend. Indeed, only in a tiny sector of research and development do you need such advanced degrees/skills. I dare any real, honest developer to challenge this.<br /><br />While I'm sure there is more to be invented in the R/D front, the mainstream (those that get outsourced) developers have no need to reinvent the wheel. Most algorithms and data structures, which are mostly "logical" than mathematical are already invented. Learning how to use these correctly is more important and you can do this OJT. <br /><br />So, remove this myth, make the passionate thrive and see how our youth follows suit.

[groink_hi]

Math & Science? How about WRITING skills?

I find it rather funny seeing some of these people write about math and science not being important in order to work in IT. It sounds to me like they?re thinking IT is all about writing code for a web page, programming a router, or managing user accounts.<br /><br />IT was DERIVED from math and science! What some of you are suggesting is that it?s alright to lack in math and science, the very foundation that created your IT occupations. It?s almost like saying, ?I don?t need to study History 101. Those events already happened, so why worry about it?? Remember that IT is not a top-tier level industry. IT is all about applying information technologies to industries that already exist, such as writing scientific software to manage a nuclear reactor, or design a rotating polygon algorithm in Maya for computer animation.<br /><br />About outsourcing? Outsourcing is an EFFECT, not a cause. Maybe Bush had to give the outsourcing power to U.S. industries in order to obtain people that develop better products and services?<br /><br />And last, I find it funny how some people write about not needing math and science. Though that may be true in their situations, maybe they should think about taking some writing and grammar lessons.<br /><br />-- From a person, U.S. citizen, with an MS in EE, and 15 years in the IT and medical fields

[Bill Dautrive]

Well said

The dismissals of the importance of math in computers on this board is alarming.

How about Reading skills too!

&gt;&gt;I find it rather funny seeing some of these people write about math and science not being important in order to work in IT. It sounds to me like they?re thinking IT is all about writing code for a web page, programming a router, or managing user accounts.<br /><br />We can choose and pick about grammar on anyone's statements, including the one you wrote above. But this isn't about writing, and your argument about Math and Science in IT is weak at best. <br /><br />&gt;&gt;IT was DERIVED from math and science! <br />Sure, but so is the pencil, the stickshift of your car and cereal. They're all tools that allow humans to create greater things not an end in and of itself.<br /><br />&gt;&gt;writing scientific software to manage a nuclear reactor, or design a rotating polygon algorithm in Maya for computer animation. <br /><br />These are mainstream Math/CS jobs that get outsourced?...please! Actually, I would never say that Math isn't important in IT, only that it's over emphasized. Apparently, you write more than read, but read my response to Drake on this. <br /> <br />Yes, IT is derived from Math and Sciences, but so are the instruments that the most prominent surgeons use, yet they don't need to know the underlying algorithms that make them tick. Btw, pencils have a lot of Math/science behind them too! <br /><br />The real funny thing is the fact that these academic-types are usually shown-the-ropes by a pragmatic self-taught...the former will spend half their time defending why they went to school for 4+ years to learn stuff they will never use.<br /><br />Btw, I have a BA in business and I often get to train those with academic Math/CS background about programming as a tool to solve real business problems. And I didn't earn my US patents by writing web pages or managing user accounts. Math and CS are only a small piece of the pie and I stand strong with my statement that in the big scheme of things, there are other aspects that are MORE important. <br /><br />You're right about one thing. Writing IS important. Unfortunately, communication isn't strong in Math/CS...

[Bill Dautrive]

re

A BA in business? You have no real background in mathematics so how can you even comment?<br /><br />You don't need to understand the mathematics of a trasmission to drive a car, but that is not the same thing as writing code. <br /><br />To write code, efficiently, you use math. Sure you can use the data structure provided by the library, but that is often not the most efficient way to do things. You might need to create one specifically for your data, and if you are knowlegable in DS and math, you can create one that is faster then the one in the library. <br /><br />Without a solid background in math, much of the IT world is closed off to you. You can't work for a company to work on a language, library and compiler. You shouldn't be writing drivers either. It goes on and on. Sure, if all you want to do is write web sites, you really don't need much math. But getting a CS degree for that is like getting an MBA to be a Mcdonalds manager. Massive overkill.

[TomMariner]

Why should a 15 Year Old Care?

In order to get a great place in Law School the students should have great grades in English and History. For a Med School placement, Chemistry is important. Since these two professions seem to be running the show in the US, why should a student care about math scores and be branded a "geek". For the first half of the 20'th century techies were honored and the country gained prominence. Now the US honors those who interpret laws while Asian students learn how to make things out of computers and algorithms.<br /><br />You do the math.<br /><br />I hear all this bunk about balance of payments being caused by interest rates and goverment policy. Bull doody - the US is making less innovative stuff the rest of the world wants.

[Bill Dautrive]

Why?

Why is the US lagging in innovation?<br /><br />Lack of math skills. Plain and simple.

why?

Why should a 15 year old care? A 15 year old probably won't care if the adults he/she has in his/her life carry such an attitude. Law school requires much more than just English and history, and Medical school requires much more than chemistry. Chemistry is a relatively small part of getting into med school. Science and physics (heavily based in MATH) are major players on the MCAT. To think that law and medicine are so basic and so narrowly defined is asinine. With thoughts like this, how can we exprect anything great from our kids today???

You Are Soooo Wrong

I have been in the software development business for almost 30 years. There are two main and overriding reasons that myself and countless other US Citizens are not granted coding/development work even though we have tons of experience and are very good.<br />Executives of corporations are outsourcing coding/development to places like India and Russia due to personal greed and, for many years, have not considered coding/development resources to have much value within their companies. These are FACTS ascertained through almost 30 years in the heart of the industry.

FACTS???

These are facts? How about opinions of an individual who is no longer competitive? Greed of corporate leaders? It's wrong for individuals to want to make money from the fruits of their labors/ideas? If you don't want to make money for them, start your own business. If you are no longer competitive, find a new career. And above all, stop whining about outsourcing.

Missing the point.

The following article is about the relative decline in the US educational system, and furthermore, if you read the whole article Mr. Tucci proposes a solution to address the issue at hand. How off the topic and irresponsible can you be when taking in consideration this subject; self embellishing, throwing around titles, patents and the mechanical engineering feats of the pencil are sound examples of missing the point. <br /><br />None the less, to address some of the off topic subjects:<br />I would have to agree that passion is the root of success, not a pedigree. I would also give my kudos to the individuals that have chosen software development as a profession without having a formal education; this is a great example of passion and perseverance, this type of desire is what made America the industrial leader. There also seems to be some confusion as to what the requirements are for software development; let us precise the definition by our piers: <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_development#What_is_the_nature_of_SE.3F" target="_newWindow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_development#What_is_the_nature_of_SE.3F</a><br />First Paragraph: <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_programming" target="_newWindow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_programming</a><br /><br />Lastly, outsourcing is a result of the competitive nature of business. The bottom line is the bottom line, and if some one can provide the same service for less, businesses will ultimately move in that direction. It's not personal, it's business.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Sean Gahan

It's all about the bottom line

This entire line of reasoning reminds me of the same "siren call" <br />when I was starting college in the late 80's. Chemists and other <br />basic scientists were in shortage compared to the need we were <br />told. I completed a B.S. in chemistry only to find that suddenly, <br />the need for this had been overestimated. Many with Ph.D.'s <br />could not find a job anywhere. Did I blindly continue my <br />education in chemistry? Of course not. People go where they <br />feel their personal investment of time is best rewarded -- either <br />ecnomically or otherwise. Industry looks for the cheapest deal <br />-- in the U.S. this is exclusive of all else. No long term <br />repercussions seem to be involved.<br /><br />If the U.S. really cared about this problem (including any pious <br />CEO's that may be writing this drivel), they would participate in <br />incentives that would correct the problem. Correcting a hiring <br />problem by hiring someone from India or Russia for half the U.S. <br />salary is not very encouraging for somewhat about to embark on <br />5 - 7 years of training with the incumbent debt in most cases. If <br />it's not in MY interest to invest years in education --&gt; i.e. this <br />personal investment gets short circuited by outsourcing of one <br />kind or another, I would be stupid not to look for something <br />more in my own favor. Corporations show little loyalty or long <br />term investment in their employees -- no wonder employees <br />feel the same about their corporations. It's all about supply and <br />demand. If the local pool is diluted, pricing and therefore <br />earning power is diluted. The only way to defend yourself is to <br />make yourself somehow unique or otherwise irreplaceable to <br />your employer. These may require constant re-evaluation.<br /><br />This isn't about just IT or chemistry or any other particular <br />sector of the economy. It's about poor policy from top to <br />bottom. Self interest rules the day in the end. Failure to take <br />this into account will always lead to failed policy as it continues <br />to do in the U.S. If you really want more basic science grads in <br />the U.S. in chemistry, engineering, or goat herding for that <br />matter, than there must be an incentive for people to move in <br />that direction. Anything else is just a bunch of overpaid analysts <br />patting themselves on the back for saying the sky is falling and <br />running around in circles.

Supply and demand don't negate a basic education

Just because a precious chemistry degree or IT degree or any other degree is no longer valid does not negate the requirements of a strong basic education, to include math and science. I think the point was severely missed.<br /><br />I do agree that pursuing a career that is no longer fruitful is a waste of time. Of course, those who have no foresight will continue to pursue the hot job that will land them the biggest paycheck and then gripe and moan about their job being "outsourced" instead of admitting that they no longer serve a purpose. At this point, it is the evil, greedy corporate types that have sold "their" jobs away.

[cpudrewfl]

These problems are happening at the secondary school level

I have a friend who goes to ITT in Fort Lauderdale, Florida and he going for his Associates Degree in Computer Science and when he got to his Math 1 and Math 2 classes he was having real problems get 20s and 30s on test and exams so after the semester was over I asked if he passed and he said yes they gave me a C grade in both. He also had the same luck in programming I even kid around with him and ask him if he could code a basic script and he says no way, but he says all that matters in the piece of paper he gets after the two years of school. All that matters to ITT is the $33,000 they get from students and financial aide. Next time when you looking to blame someone for offshoring blame these greedy schools that don't know how to teach. ITT=Its terrible teaching.

[stevenlmas]

Tech schools are a major source of problems...

I "graduated" from WPI's E-Commerce program 4 years ago. This course was supposed to teach you how to build e-commerce websites. What I got was a basic primer in HTML, some elementary VB, and some rudimentary ASP and Oracle DB stuff. All of which I knew or could have taught myself in a weekend. What we didn't learn was anything about encryption, security, and credit card processing. Yet students graduating from this class were told they could find jobs in e-commerce.<br /><br />When ITT is bilking people out of money for its crappy certification and degree programs it's sad, but buyer beware--it's ITT. When prestigous schools like Worcester Polytech start offering the same type of crap it's deplorable. If these cash-cow schools continue to offer these woefully inadequate programs to unsuspecting students we're going to continue to see other countries outpace the U.S. in supplying skilled developers and IT workers.

[papy006]

Wrong leads.

Do not point your education system. Blame, rather your American Culture which wants Americans to be and to stay stupid and obedient. The ones who are in charge with America's destiny today like you like this. You know "circus and pane". Or maybe you don't. <br />Learning too much mathematics, physics, chemistry, history and geography may lead you to want to take over. Keeping Americans like this and subcontracting smart work elsewhere is a nice compromise today. Money flow..., but not for you.<br />Sorry guys. As long as you keep buying big cars, borrow more than you can afford and pay ten times more than worth for your house you won't learn any math. <br />Start by opening you eyes and being curious. Math will come by itself after...<br />Have fun!

Amen!

Not to get too political, but look how all (or at least most) politicians want us to look to the gov't for everything...from health care to retirement to redistribution of wealth. AND, look at the abysmal gov't school system. The gov't can't do anything right. Yet we trust our most precious people, our children, with the gov't for their education.<br /><br />As long as we continue to trust the gov't for everything, we will always just be mediocre.

[Not Bugged]

High Math and Science skills a liability

And here's why. At most companies pay is tied to performance. The more math, science skills and the better the education you have the better you can perform your job. At the dept. level you get raises based on performance (usually). The better you do the more you will make. Now at the corporate level they don't give a damn about how well you do your job, just how much you make. They only care about what their bonus is going to be. They don't care about their company, their community or their country. Talk to any CEO and you will understand they see employees strictly as a liability. Someone to get rid of ASAP. So, they outsource jobs and technology, a lot of times which was developed using tax money. They save money in the short term and get a fat bonus.<br /><br />And who is the target for being outsourced. The ones who make the most. In other words, the most productive, the smartest, most skilled jobs go first. That is the way it has transpired at every place I have been where outsourcing occurred. I was at one company where one day I was given a 10% raise out of the blue. As it happened they told me I had saved the company more than three times what they had paid me during the two years I had worked there. They had asked to give me a larger raise but was turned down. A month later my job was outsourced to India to a much less skilled but cheaper programmer. The dept. head was mad as hell but corporate picked the people solely by how much they make. Why would any young person put themselves in debt going to college and venture into the 'flavor of the day' technology whirlpool only to know the better they do the more there are jeopardy of losing their job? If was young I sure wouldn't. BTW, the India workers are just as bad at math and science the difference being I cannot understand a damn thing they say most of the time.

[b2bhandshake]

If Jonny can't code...

can he at least get coders across the globe to code for him? A blend of technical and entrepreneurial skills will make Jonny and us globally competitive<br />Mohan Babu, Author/Consultant<br /><a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.offshoringmanagement.com" target="_newWindow">http://www.offshoringmanagement.com</a>