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April 7, 2005 2:04 PM PDT
U.S. slips lower in coding contest
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The University of Illinois tied for 17th place in the world finals of the Association for Computing Machinery International Collegiate Programming Contest, which concluded Thursday. That's the lowest ranking for the top-performing U.S. school in the 29-year history of the competition.
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| Programmers' progress Since this article published, these columnists have debated the significance of the low ranking:  Can the U.S. still compete?(April 15, 2005) Can Johnny still program?(April 19, 2005) Johnny can so program(May 10, 2005) | | ||
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Shanghai Jiao Tong University of China took top honors this year, followed by Moscow State University and the St. Petersburg Institute of Fine Mechanics and Optics. Those results continued a gradual ascendance of Asian and East European schools during the past decade or so. A U.S. school hasn't won the world championship since 1997, when students at Harvey Mudd College achieved the honor.
"The U.S. used to dominate these kinds of programming Olympics," said David Patterson, president of the Association for Computing Machinery and a computer science professor at the University of California, Berkeley. "Now we're sort of falling behind."
The relatively poor showing of American students is a red flag about how well the United States in general is doing in technology, compared with its global rivals, said Jim Foley, chairman of the Computing Research Association, a group made up of academic departments, research centers and professional societies.
"This confirms concerns expressed by the Computing Research Association about the U.S.'s status in the worldwide race for technological leadership," said Foley, who is also a professor in the College of Computing at the Georgia Institute of Technology.
A number of developments in recent years suggest the world's tech leadership could shift from Silicon Valley and other U.S. locales to Asian nations such as China, Korea and India. One sign is the way American technology companies are conducting some of their research and development activities in Asia.
The U.S. educational system is another area of concern. Technology leaders, including Intel's Craig Barrett, have pointed to education woes as a major problem for the U.S. tech industry. Student interest in computer science departments in the United States has waned in the wake of the dot-com collapse and amid reports that companies are shipping some of their technology work to low-wage countries like India.
Also alarming to some is a dip in applications from international students to U.S. graduate schools.
Many observers have said that U.S. elementary and secondary schools should improve their ability to boost interest in technology, with proposed reforms ranging from higher pay for teachers to education tax credits that let parents pay for private-school tuition.
Other proposed steps to foster U.S. tech leadership include higher pay for positions in the field and more federal funding for computing research.
While those in the United States may be fretting over their tech future, some in China are celebrating. A photo on the Web site of the programming contest seems to show students from Shanghai Jiao Tong University tossing someone into the air in the wake of the school's victory.
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I'm learning to fix air-conditioners in order to leave a decades-long career that is a trail of broken promises.
Computers are nifty, and I plan to continue programming as a hobby - but as a career it is a poor choice given how programmers are treated in today's environment.
Because of my background, Chung's message has extra meanings to me ...
I am a Chinese American working in a big company in Silicon Valley. I came to US 10 yrs ago (from Hong Kong) for my graduate degree in CS.
I was facing a very similar situation back in Hong Kong 10 yrs ago. Ordinary business folks in office has very little respect for IT people / programmers. People who has no college education (e.g. sales folks at fashion chain store - think of GAP equivalent) can make much more money than I did easily.
Those are reasons that I wanted to come to US to work a true tech company in Silicon Valley. I did it by studying my graduate degree in US.
I think what we are seeing is maturing of an industry and its job spectrum. It happened to most of industry sector.
One end of the spectrum: you got research-driven "scientists" job, e.g. A.I., O.S., programming language, databases, search engine. On the the end, you got casual programmers / computer support kind of jobs, e.g. your excel spreadsheet programming, or simple vb or javascript programming, computer support caller center people.
The low-end jobs are disappearing because of either technology advancment itself (i.e. end user can do it themselves) or shipping to lower cost area (e.g. India).
This job erosion is spreading to the mid-section of the spectrum.
If one wants to make money and earn respect in a tech job, one should prepare himself/herself for the higher end of job spectrum - i.e. work in a truely tech company - that sells technology product / services - do some real innovation - invent and implement next big thing.
If you can significantly improve search alogrithm used in Google, Yahoo, Amazon and Microsoft, you will be still paid with big money. If you can invent the next Skype or BitTorrent product, you will be still rewarded with pots of gold. If you can be an engineers for next iPod, you would get a lot of respect from your peers and even your relatives.
If you think you cannot make it higher end side of job spectrum, then you should think more about your career path in tech sector.
Another way to look at it: tech industry is becoming like auto industry. Job roles are becoming increasingly specialized. You want to become a designer of next great car model, and you don't want to be just another mechanics or car salesman, if you want to make good money.
Instead of saying "the American Dream has no place for programmers", I would say, "there are very limited places for programmers to realize their American Dream".
I'm learning to fix air-conditioners in order to leave a decades-long career that is a trail of broken promises.
Computers are nifty, and I plan to continue programming as a hobby - but as a career it is a poor choice given how programmers are treated in today's environment.
Because of my background, Chung's message has extra meanings to me ...
I am a Chinese American working in a big company in Silicon Valley. I came to US 10 yrs ago (from Hong Kong) for my graduate degree in CS.
I was facing a very similar situation back in Hong Kong 10 yrs ago. Ordinary business folks in office has very little respect for IT people / programmers. People who has no college education (e.g. sales folks at fashion chain store - think of GAP equivalent) can make much more money than I did easily.
Those are reasons that I wanted to come to US to work a true tech company in Silicon Valley. I did it by studying my graduate degree in US.
I think what we are seeing is maturing of an industry and its job spectrum. It happened to most of industry sector.
One end of the spectrum: you got research-driven "scientists" job, e.g. A.I., O.S., programming language, databases, search engine. On the the end, you got casual programmers / computer support kind of jobs, e.g. your excel spreadsheet programming, or simple vb or javascript programming, computer support caller center people.
The low-end jobs are disappearing because of either technology advancment itself (i.e. end user can do it themselves) or shipping to lower cost area (e.g. India).
This job erosion is spreading to the mid-section of the spectrum.
If one wants to make money and earn respect in a tech job, one should prepare himself/herself for the higher end of job spectrum - i.e. work in a truely tech company - that sells technology product / services - do some real innovation - invent and implement next big thing.
If you can significantly improve search alogrithm used in Google, Yahoo, Amazon and Microsoft, you will be still paid with big money. If you can invent the next Skype or BitTorrent product, you will be still rewarded with pots of gold. If you can be an engineers for next iPod, you would get a lot of respect from your peers and even your relatives.
If you think you cannot make it higher end side of job spectrum, then you should think more about your career path in tech sector.
Another way to look at it: tech industry is becoming like auto industry. Job roles are becoming increasingly specialized. You want to become a designer of next great car model, and you don't want to be just another mechanics or car salesman, if you want to make good money.
Instead of saying "the American Dream has no place for programmers", I would say, "there are very limited places for programmers to realize their American Dream".
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_waterloo" target="_newWindow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_waterloo</a>
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_waterloo" target="_newWindow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_waterloo</a>
of his time spinning his wheels in the mud of Iraq. No leadership -- Unless you want to save the unborn so that they can be drones for Wallmart.
of his time spinning his wheels in the mud of Iraq. No leadership -- Unless you want to save the unborn so that they can be drones for Wallmart.
So, US will always lead on innovation. Have you heard any OS "originally created" from China ? no.
Any programming language "originally created" from China ? no. Who is major driver of various IT standard ? US or other Western Country.
So why be so afraid of China. They can only "copy" the idea and do it better, faster at lower cost.
For education system, US just need to keep its High education (BS/MS/PhD) leading the world.
Don't forget to check those ShangHai teammeber, I bet all of them will go oversea for their MS/PhD degree, and probably US is the #1 choice.
I'm not America, I'm just a Taiwanese.
Personally i'm in the tech industry, not for respect, and not for the money. I'm in it because
i like working with computers. I just need to find somewhere other than a law firm to work, so i can do some more interesting things than email administration...
I'm not so concerned about China being a Tech threat. Really it's Russia that could come to dominate software inovation. They've always had great mathematical and engineering schools even during soviet communism, and if they can get a capitolistic economy moving, they'll really start inovating quickly.
Anyways, concerning the CS people in America, I really think the only way to apply our skills and make a decent living at it is to emulate the model that Doctors and Lawyers have done over the centuries. Find a few other software engineers and go into business for yourself. Do both App development and Support, while developing your own software. Form small partnership companies. Forget the big multi-national corporations -- you'll forever be a low-wage slave to some simpleton with an MBA.
Programming contests are misnamed. They are analysis and algorithm contest. Not contests on how well one can code.
So, US will always lead on innovation. Have you heard any OS "originally created" from China ? no.
Any programming language "originally created" from China ? no. Who is major driver of various IT standard ? US or other Western Country.
So why be so afraid of China. They can only "copy" the idea and do it better, faster at lower cost.
For education system, US just need to keep its High education (BS/MS/PhD) leading the world.
Don't forget to check those ShangHai teammeber, I bet all of them will go oversea for their MS/PhD degree, and probably US is the #1 choice.
I'm not America, I'm just a Taiwanese.
Personally i'm in the tech industry, not for respect, and not for the money. I'm in it because
i like working with computers. I just need to find somewhere other than a law firm to work, so i can do some more interesting things than email administration...
I'm not so concerned about China being a Tech threat. Really it's Russia that could come to dominate software inovation. They've always had great mathematical and engineering schools even during soviet communism, and if they can get a capitolistic economy moving, they'll really start inovating quickly.
Anyways, concerning the CS people in America, I really think the only way to apply our skills and make a decent living at it is to emulate the model that Doctors and Lawyers have done over the centuries. Find a few other software engineers and go into business for yourself. Do both App development and Support, while developing your own software. Form small partnership companies. Forget the big multi-national corporations -- you'll forever be a low-wage slave to some simpleton with an MBA.
Programming contests are misnamed. They are analysis and algorithm contest. Not contests on how well one can code.
IT starts in the US, then spreads. This has nothing at all to do with this or any president, and to think this is ridiculous. But then, It is no suprise to me that American universities are failing....there is so much an air of sex and whatever might "feel" good....so much preaching of how conservatism is evil.....so much of an air of rich snobbery in these places, there just isn't enough time in a day for learning and doing the things that really need to be. People from around the world come to American universities to get PHD's....this really should be rather telling.
But in the end...
The thing that ends up happening is a good programer gets bumped off becuase of the decision to go overseas for employees. Priorities and responsibilities get so out of wack, that bad things happen. Companies and the government wanting nothing more than more money, more power, more ability to monitor and control people.
Do any of you really think that idiotic, controlling, dominating, power hungry, "do-it-because-I-said-to" attitudes will ever produce anything positive?
But then, how many people are just so much more interested in "American Idol", than what it would take to make things the way it should be?
IT starts in the US, then spreads. This has nothing at all to do with this or any president, and to think this is ridiculous. But then, It is no suprise to me that American universities are failing....there is so much an air of sex and whatever might "feel" good....so much preaching of how conservatism is evil.....so much of an air of rich snobbery in these places, there just isn't enough time in a day for learning and doing the things that really need to be. People from around the world come to American universities to get PHD's....this really should be rather telling.
But in the end...
The thing that ends up happening is a good programer gets bumped off becuase of the decision to go overseas for employees. Priorities and responsibilities get so out of wack, that bad things happen. Companies and the government wanting nothing more than more money, more power, more ability to monitor and control people.
Do any of you really think that idiotic, controlling, dominating, power hungry, "do-it-because-I-said-to" attitudes will ever produce anything positive?
But then, how many people are just so much more interested in "American Idol", than what it would take to make things the way it should be?
Having graduated from a CS degree, I would dissuade anyone with bothering with a classic CS degree. At this point, it's largely a waste of time. 90% of IT jobs are with businesses which have no interest in new computing paradigms, they just leverage technology to get work done and they could care less about design patterns, threading vs. forking, PERL, Ruby, Python, C++ and most other tech crap. They just care whether it works and how much does it cost. That's reality folks.
-M
AI, compilers,network security, and real time systems and still worthwhile, but they take more effort then the avenues most people take. You get out what you put in. Put in the effort and learn computers down to the logic gates, while having a solid understanding of mathematics and physics, and you will have a better chance of finding a good job.
Having graduated from a CS degree, I would dissuade anyone with bothering with a classic CS degree. At this point, it's largely a waste of time. 90% of IT jobs are with businesses which have no interest in new computing paradigms, they just leverage technology to get work done and they could care less about design patterns, threading vs. forking, PERL, Ruby, Python, C++ and most other tech crap. They just care whether it works and how much does it cost. That's reality folks.
-M
AI, compilers,network security, and real time systems and still worthwhile, but they take more effort then the avenues most people take. You get out what you put in. Put in the effort and learn computers down to the logic gates, while having a solid understanding of mathematics and physics, and you will have a better chance of finding a good job.
I know many people from my country claiming they are smarter then Americans but they usually rive trucks,clean and do low paid jobs...if they are smarter how come they are not leading the way?I had to come to USA where I was recognized as good technician where in my country I would be laughed at with all my skills...and I come from middle of Europe.
I know many people from my country claiming they are smarter then Americans but they usually rive trucks,clean and do low paid jobs...if they are smarter how come they are not leading the way?I had to come to USA where I was recognized as good technician where in my country I would be laughed at with all my skills...and I come from middle of Europe.
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.bls.gov/oco/oco2003.htm" target="_newWindow">http://www.bls.gov/oco/oco2003.htm</a>
Tomorrow's Jobs
"Professional and business services. This group will grow by 30.4 percent and add nearly 5 million new jobs. This industry supersector includes some of the fastest growing industries in the U.S. economy.
Employment in professional, scientific, and technical services will grow by 27.8 percent and add 1.9 million new jobs by 2012. Employment in computer systems design and related services will grow by 54.6 percent and add more than one-third of all new jobs in professional, scientific, and technical services. Employment growth will be driven by the increasing reliance of businesses on information technology and the continuing importance of maintaining system and network security. Management, scientific, and technical consulting services also will grow very rapidly, by 55.4 percent, spurred by the increased use of new technology and computer software and the growing complexity of business."
Keith
www.techcando.com
marketing, and intended to make you feel good. Unless they are
reporting current, actual facts, that include the debatable
arguments along with it, they are just plain B.S.
Bottom-line, we just have to do it. Continue innovating,
continue learning, continue to push the envelope. The rest of
does not matter. Sure, we have some great inventors who died
poor, but that is true in every country. Nothing gets done by
looking into a "crystal ball", and nothing gets better by wishing
it.