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January 14, 2006 6:00 AM PST
Turning up the heat on hybrid cars
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mileage gets is about 43 MPG under the worst
possible circumstances. On average, for my
commute I get about 51 MPG, and when I drive
from Boston to a friend's cabin north of
Portland, ME, I average close to 60 MPG.
I would say several things: performance varies
wildly depending on the conditions and the
driver, but also on the distance driven. These
things are most efficient once the engine warms
up. If you make lots of spaced-out short
errands, you don't get much benefit.
I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing a high cetane
ULS diesel+biodiesel electric hybrid as a
logical next-step (one with a renesis-like
engine too, please). They ought to be able to
knock out another 50% increase in fuel economy,
I should think, while lowering fuel production
cost.
I'd really prefer a fuel-cell based unit, but
there's an awful lot of materials science and
infrastructure planning that needs to come
through before that's practical.
mileage gets is about 43 MPG under the worst
possible circumstances. On average, for my
commute I get about 51 MPG, and when I drive
from Boston to a friend's cabin north of
Portland, ME, I average close to 60 MPG.
I would say several things: performance varies
wildly depending on the conditions and the
driver, but also on the distance driven. These
things are most efficient once the engine warms
up. If you make lots of spaced-out short
errands, you don't get much benefit.
I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing a high cetane
ULS diesel+biodiesel electric hybrid as a
logical next-step (one with a renesis-like
engine too, please). They ought to be able to
knock out another 50% increase in fuel economy,
I should think, while lowering fuel production
cost.
I'd really prefer a fuel-cell based unit, but
there's an awful lot of materials science and
infrastructure planning that needs to come
through before that's practical.
engines to power hybrid-electric cars. WIth cleaner diesel fuel
being mandated in the U.S. this year and the spread of biodiesel,
the combination of diesel engines and electrics makes a lot
more sense.
I've owned a diesel Volkswagen and prefer their performance in
real world driving to any gasoline powered car. Americans owe
it to themselves to actually try a diesel powered car before
condemning them. They are worlds different than the Big
Three's anemic attempts of the 1970's!
2006 that US diesel production will come into
line with european with regard to sulphur
emissions and the like.
I do like the idea of diesels and
diesel-electrics, though, in the US. Though in
many parts of the country you'll note that
straight biodiesel is a non-starter (because it
gets cold enough that biodiesel alone will
solidify in the tank). You'll need a
ULSD+biodiesel blend.
So good mileage is attainable with properly sized engines. It is NOT possible with hundreds of ponies that gulp gas.
I'm in market now to replace worn and rusted out 1989 van. Not with a van, as we got that five years back, but a decent hybrid as there is big tax credit. I expect a lifetime of at least 12 years on every vehicle we buy. By default it will HAVE to be gas.
engines to power hybrid-electric cars. WIth cleaner diesel fuel
being mandated in the U.S. this year and the spread of biodiesel,
the combination of diesel engines and electrics makes a lot
more sense.
I've owned a diesel Volkswagen and prefer their performance in
real world driving to any gasoline powered car. Americans owe
it to themselves to actually try a diesel powered car before
condemning them. They are worlds different than the Big
Three's anemic attempts of the 1970's!
2006 that US diesel production will come into
line with european with regard to sulphur
emissions and the like.
I do like the idea of diesels and
diesel-electrics, though, in the US. Though in
many parts of the country you'll note that
straight biodiesel is a non-starter (because it
gets cold enough that biodiesel alone will
solidify in the tank). You'll need a
ULSD+biodiesel blend.
So good mileage is attainable with properly sized engines. It is NOT possible with hundreds of ponies that gulp gas.
I'm in market now to replace worn and rusted out 1989 van. Not with a van, as we got that five years back, but a decent hybrid as there is big tax credit. I expect a lifetime of at least 12 years on every vehicle we buy. By default it will HAVE to be gas.
If you drive with a lead foot and brake hard, your mileage goes way down -- low 40s. The Prius rewards smooth driving. Strangely, I've found that mileage is slightly (1-2mpg) lower in California. Maybe they use different gas additives out here.
I love the thing, and not just for the mileage. It's comfortable, quiet, well designed and well engineered.
If you drive with a lead foot and brake hard, your mileage goes way down -- low 40s. The Prius rewards smooth driving. Strangely, I've found that mileage is slightly (1-2mpg) lower in California. Maybe they use different gas additives out here.
I love the thing, and not just for the mileage. It's comfortable, quiet, well designed and well engineered.
"better" idea than hybrid designs for overall efficiency -- this
isn't even a legitimate question.
Diesel and electric-hybrid technology are orthogonal and highly
complementary in the quest to create high-efficiency cars.
There is little fundamental reason why the two technologies
could not be combined in coming years to provide substantially
greater advantages than either could, individually.
Additionally, mass-market hybrids are a valuable technological
proving ground in which to develop broadly-useful technology
-- like energy reclamation brakes, more effective and efficient
motors, etc. -- for any (partly or wholly) electric vehicle designs
of the future, be they hybrid, fuel cell, or battery/solar-powered.
"better" idea than hybrid designs for overall efficiency -- this
isn't even a legitimate question.
Diesel and electric-hybrid technology are orthogonal and highly
complementary in the quest to create high-efficiency cars.
There is little fundamental reason why the two technologies
could not be combined in coming years to provide substantially
greater advantages than either could, individually.
Additionally, mass-market hybrids are a valuable technological
proving ground in which to develop broadly-useful technology
-- like energy reclamation brakes, more effective and efficient
motors, etc. -- for any (partly or wholly) electric vehicle designs
of the future, be they hybrid, fuel cell, or battery/solar-powered.
forms. Better than that, you can run lean of peak combustion
temperatures. HCCI experiments show 40% thermal efficiency
using modified diesel engines. Such engines are the immediate
future -- smallish cars that get 50 plus miles per gallon on
biodiesel and don't pollute. All the stuff has been invented and
all it needs is to be assembled. The big car companies will go
for this because it represents incremental but very significant
progress.
forms. Better than that, you can run lean of peak combustion
temperatures. HCCI experiments show 40% thermal efficiency
using modified diesel engines. Such engines are the immediate
future -- smallish cars that get 50 plus miles per gallon on
biodiesel and don't pollute. All the stuff has been invented and
all it needs is to be assembled. The big car companies will go
for this because it represents incremental but very significant
progress.
If a mid-sized diesel hybrid existed I'd consider buying it, except that I already own a relatively new car. I have no problem with a diesel car if I can fit in it and it doesn't spew out black smoke.
On a side note, I read an interesting article someplace awhile back (Time?) talking about the popularity of hybrids in unexpected places like Montana. In these more rural locations typically dominated by large pickups, gas price increases were having such a great effect due to the long distances between towns and cities that a lot of people were giving up their beefy vehicles in favor of fuel efficiency. Maybe the draw for fuel effiency will be even higher outside those urban areas.
non-hybrid forms. It's true that a smaller car
will get better mileage, but that's physics
(greater mass + greater wind resistance => more
work).
Personally, I drive a Civic Hybrid, whose cabin
is exactly the same dimensions as a regular
Civic (actually 1" longer front-to-back).
If a mid-sized diesel hybrid existed I'd consider buying it, except that I already own a relatively new car. I have no problem with a diesel car if I can fit in it and it doesn't spew out black smoke.
On a side note, I read an interesting article someplace awhile back (Time?) talking about the popularity of hybrids in unexpected places like Montana. In these more rural locations typically dominated by large pickups, gas price increases were having such a great effect due to the long distances between towns and cities that a lot of people were giving up their beefy vehicles in favor of fuel efficiency. Maybe the draw for fuel effiency will be even higher outside those urban areas.
non-hybrid forms. It's true that a smaller car
will get better mileage, but that's physics
(greater mass + greater wind resistance => more
work).
Personally, I drive a Civic Hybrid, whose cabin
is exactly the same dimensions as a regular
Civic (actually 1" longer front-to-back).
Consumer Reports just tested the new Jetta diesel against the Civic Hybrid, and the Civic got better mileage in both city and highway, and accelerated faster, while polluting MUCH less. The Prius beat the stuffing out of both of them despite being a good deal larger.
Also, a recent test in Canada confirmed these results:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://mdahmus.thebaba.com/blog/archives/000249.html" target="_newWindow">http://mdahmus.thebaba.com/blog/archives/000249.html</a>
Consumer Reports just tested the new Jetta diesel against the Civic Hybrid, and the Civic got better mileage in both city and highway, and accelerated faster, while polluting MUCH less. The Prius beat the stuffing out of both of them despite being a good deal larger.
Also, a recent test in Canada confirmed these results:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://mdahmus.thebaba.com/blog/archives/000249.html" target="_newWindow">http://mdahmus.thebaba.com/blog/archives/000249.html</a>
If a vehicle gets poor mpg check the driver. A friend has an 04 Civic Hybrid and took it back to the dealer 3 times to complain he only gets 40 mpg. I drove it and got 63.
He is now learing to drive better and has improved.
I drive an Insight and got 100 mpg by driving smart. It's a very efficient vehicle.
A Prius I drove got over 70 mpg.
I'd love a plugin prius with the after market kit from Edrive. It gets 100+ and I may be able to get 150 over EVen better.
Jim
If a vehicle gets poor mpg check the driver. A friend has an 04 Civic Hybrid and took it back to the dealer 3 times to complain he only gets 40 mpg. I drove it and got 63.
He is now learing to drive better and has improved.
I drive an Insight and got 100 mpg by driving smart. It's a very efficient vehicle.
A Prius I drove got over 70 mpg.
I'd love a plugin prius with the after market kit from Edrive. It gets 100+ and I may be able to get 150 over EVen better.
Jim
patent rights to fuel-conserving technologies
like that -- those are typically purchased by
oil companies.
Car companies could care less how efficient the
car is so long as they can: minimize the R&D
cost and the tooling cost to create a new model,
sell more cars with each model year, and make
sure that there's enough parts that fail at a
predictable rate to ensure the need for service,
parts, and eventual replacement of the whole
unit.
As far as the car companies are concerned, the
perfect car is one that costs $1 to build, never
needs gas, comes in any color or shape the
consumer can dream of, sells for $10,000 a pop
and simply falls apart after 5 years or 75,000
miles.
patent rights to fuel-conserving technologies
like that -- those are typically purchased by
oil companies.
Car companies could care less how efficient the
car is so long as they can: minimize the R&D
cost and the tooling cost to create a new model,
sell more cars with each model year, and make
sure that there's enough parts that fail at a
predictable rate to ensure the need for service,
parts, and eventual replacement of the whole
unit.
As far as the car companies are concerned, the
perfect car is one that costs $1 to build, never
needs gas, comes in any color or shape the
consumer can dream of, sells for $10,000 a pop
and simply falls apart after 5 years or 75,000
miles.