Symantec: Microsoft won't give us key Vista tech

update Symantec has accused Microsoft of withholding key information about its upcoming Vista operating system in an attempt to gain an advantage in the security market.

The security specialist said this week that Microsoft is refusing to hand over the application programmable interfaces (APIs) for Windows Defender, the spyware product that will be included in Windows Vista. Without the APIs, Symantec contends that it's unable to ensure that its own security products are compatible with the update.

"Microsoft is affirmatively introducing bottlenecks to funnel customers to their products," said John Brigden, Symantec senior vice president for Europe. "It's all about control and dominance. They are deliberately delaying giving us the APIs."

Microsoft responded to Symantec's concerns on Wednesday, and said it had made the APIs for Defender available earlier this week.

"As a result of our ongoing dialogue with partners and our customers, Microsoft decided in August this year to add the ability for any security software company to programmatically disable Windows Defender access through an API," a Microsoft representative said.

"Availability of the Defender APIs was announced to security partners on Friday, Sept. 22, 2006, and we understand Symantec requested and received the go-ahead to develop on that API on Monday, Sept. 25," Microsoft said.

Microsoft added the functionality to disable Windows Defender in Release Candidate 1 of Vista, or RC1, which came out early this month. There may have been some confusion in the industry because the accompanying information for developers, called a software development kit, or SDK, did not provide details on the functionality, the company said.

"Two weeks after releasing RC1, we provided the follow-up documentation, which was released out-of-band; normally we release it with major milestones," said Adrien Robinson, business development manager at Microsoft. "The confusion, I think, that people are having is that the functionality is not in the RC1 SDK, and the reason for that is that we added it just before RC1."

Symantec, though, insists that the APIs still aren't available.

The timing of the release of APIs is crucial for Symantec, as it is due to ship a Vista-compatible Norton antivirus product to PC makers in October.

"No one has received any information about Defender, and we're coming up to an OEM (original equipment manufacturers) shipment date in October. It's three weeks away," Brigden said.

Symantec has partnerships with equipment manufacturers Dell, Fujitsu, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Sony and Toshiba, among others. The antivirus vendor is worried that Microsoft will hand over the APIs so late that Symantec won't be able to make its antivirus software compatible with Vista in time.

"Microsoft will provide information about two days before the October shipment date, and say, 'We've given you the APIs.' Now, we're good, but we're not good enough (to integrate Norton with Defender) in that time," a Symantec representative said.

Symantec hopes the APIs will be supplied before that. It would not comment on the potential damage to its relationships with PC partners should it not have enough time to integrate Norton into Vista.

The entry of Microsoft into the security market has put incumbents on their guard, given the software giant's $34 billion cash pile and a hefty presence on desktops. On top of this, European Commission regulators and Microsoft are in the middle of a tussle over the potential antitrust impact of security components in Vista.

Security vendor McAfee is also irked that Microsoft has not provided APIs for Defender. Sources close to the company confirmed that Microsoft has not provided the APIs, and that senior McAfee executives "really have a bee in their bonnets" about the situation.

McAfee is concerned that there will be compatibility problems between its security systems and Vista, and that customers will not be able to remove Defender from their systems, CNET News.com sister site ZDNet UK has learned.

Symantec and McAfee are battling Microsoft for the ability to replace the Windows Security Center with their own security consoles. Additionally, the security companies also claim the PatchGuard feature in 64-bit editions of Vista excludes them but lets in hackers.

Tom Espiner reported for ZDNet UK in London. CNET News.com's Joris Evers contributed to this report.

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Add a Comment (Log in or register) 75 comments (Page 1 of 3)
I wish Norton would stop integrating itself
by unknown unknown September 27, 2006 11:05 AM PDT
so far into Windows. I've had to give up on Norton Antivirus and System Works because they cause me nothing but trouble.
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Symantec & McAfee
by mikedane September 27, 2006 11:20 AM PDT
I am a tech and every problem I run into is because of the way Symantec & McAfee integrate their programs into the OS....good for Microsoft...maybe we won't feel like we are being held hostage by these two companies and they will be a bit more cooperative with THEIR programs especially from a price point
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Norton Dug It's Own Grave
by larryflowers September 27, 2006 11:24 AM PDT
I have used Norton products since DOS Days until about 2 years ago. I finally got tired of the bloated product that took so much system overhead, the extreme difficulty to uninstall and the frequency of repair by the uninstall-reinstall method.
I switched to Trend Micro and have never had to uninstall and reinstall the product, it uses less system overhead than Norton and I now recommend Trend Micro to all my clients.
Further, when Vista Beta 2 came out, Trend Micro was right there with a free download beta product to protect Vista. It has never given me the slightest problem all through the testing period.
Where was Norton?
Reply to this comment
Please don't let them turn off my security!
by Swalters1 September 27, 2006 11:42 AM PDT
Okay here's how this is going to play out. The API is now available to the devs, so it's now available to the Vx's too. So here's Vista Virus Number 1. The virus infects the PC and programically turns off all your security center and defender stuff.

Symantec is the WORST antivirus on the market at this point, and personally making it impossible for them to screw with Vista's security settings sounds great to me. The only thing that's better would be making it so it can't install at all!
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why would the average user wants to disable defender???
by mcepat September 27, 2006 11:44 AM PDT
So it can be replaced by crapware from symantec that is overbearing, confusing and break from what Microsoft is doing?

I hope Microsoft does not budge on this one, they really need to stick to there guns, I don't want any average user to have to deal with symantec or any other vendor when the first time they start Vista instead of a clean interface and simple security they are bombarded by messages saying "defender is running" do you want to disable it and run our stuff or warning vista firewall is running click here to disable it and then have 15 icons on the toolbar saying alert alert a change has been made.

sorry but all we need is

Vista Security center with green, yellow and red status

Vista Firewall

and Vista Defender

If they want to plug into the security center this is fine but keep the BS away
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Only time will tell if Microsoft is wrong.
by inachu September 27, 2006 11:52 AM PDT
Would be nice to see Defender work without crashing symantec products but past history tell me different.
Reply to this comment
another example
by cary1 September 27, 2006 11:55 AM PDT
I was just wondering about another instance similar to this... When I installed Firefox, it imported the bookmarks, history and above all, my passwords from IE.

I don't have any programming knowledge, so correct me if I am wrong...

I assume FF must have knowledge of how to access IE data (given by Microsoft), which is not available to general public, because if it were, people would use that information to write spyware and trojans, to extract the data and send it to a remote destination.

So it is in Microsoft's (and our) best interest that Microsoft doesn't share this information with each and every third party software maker.

This is just like in this case, where, if MS tells other software companies how to shut down Windows defender, the spyware writers might also misuse it.
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why use Norton at all?
by techguy83 September 27, 2006 12:53 PM PDT
Norton is crap. Mcafee is crap. Both try to integrate into the system too much and miss alot.

AVG and AVast work better and dont intergrate nearly as much.

And both AVG and Avast have Vista versions THAT WORK fine, so I think Symantec's claim is kinda moot myself, but since when do majopr companies and gov'ts listen to common sense or look at facts?
Reply to this comment
NOD32 has not missed a virus since it created the software
by mcepat September 27, 2006 1:12 PM PDT
symantec, mcafee and trendmicro and others have missed hundreds of viruses, so who are you going to trust?

http://www.eset.com/products/compare.php

I tell you one thing, when NOD32 releases the version for Vista it will plug into the Security Center of Vista like Microsoft wants them too and will pretty much leave you alone, unlike the crapware that symantec and other vendors pump out, NOD32 just does its job and only bothers you when absolutly necassary
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I promise to remove any software I see by a AV on any Vista PC I touch
by mcepat September 27, 2006 1:18 PM PDT
I work on Friends and Families systems as well as consult a few companies and do IT full time.

When Vista is released and I am asked to do anything I will remove this software from Vista and configure it with a better product like NOD32, or AVG.

If someone just bought Vista and asks me who they should buy for a AV it will not be Symantec or Mcafee etc, I will shoot them down as I always have.

I hope that Microsoft does stick to there guns on this, if they don't the Window with the view of a nice simple, clear Vista will be loaded with crap
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