States gang up on Vonage

In a sign of another battle between regulators and Net phone service providers, a high-profile Texas lawsuit against Vonage is generating interest from other states' top cops.

The deceptive trade practices lawsuit filed by Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott in late March alleges that Net phone operator Vonage doesn't adequately disclose how its 911 service differs from what customers are used to. Vonage's emergency call service, for example, has to be first activated by the customer, and the calls aren't routed directly to emergency dispatchers.

The litigation surfaced shortly after a Houston-area Vonage customer allegedly tried, and failed, to get through to an emergency dispatcher after her parents had been shot during a robbery. Vonage denies the allegations.

Since the filing, "several states have expressed an interest in the suit," Abbott spokesman Tom Kelly said, but he declined to identify the states. To date, no other states have joined the Texas lawsuit nor filed their own against Vonage, according to several sources.

New York state could be the next candidate to pull the trigger, however. New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer began "looking into the Texas lawsuit in greater detail" a few days after it was filed, a Spitzer spokesman said at the time. The spokesman didn't immediately return a call Monday for comment.

A Vonage spokesman had no immediate comment.

The interest in Abbott's lawsuit is another indication that time is running out for fast-growing Net phone providers to fully support 911 emergency services, a key but costly public safety feature that few now provide. Regulatory pressure on Net phone providers to fix their 911 problems has increased as the industry braces for rapid adoption of Internet telephony services as cable companies and Web giants such as America Online enter the market.

The Houston scenario spotlighted once again how U.S. Net phone providers still cannot successfully route a 911 call to the right emergency calling center and provide emergency operators with the caller's phone number and location. Vonage and other voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) providers have long posed a problem for 911--a result of the technology behind Internet calling.

With VoIP, calls are packaged in Internet Protocol, the same routing instructions that form the backbone of the Internet. The problem, according to Net phone providers, is that the Bells have yet to give providers unfettered access to the 911 infrastructure linking more than 3,200 emergency call centers.

That forces the Net phone companies into less-effective ways of routing 911 calls. Rather than being able to get them directly to trained emergency dispatchers, the calls are typically routed to administrative lines at call centers, which then transfer them to dispatchers. In an emergency, the few seconds lost could be the difference between life and death.

This issue is unlikely to derail Net telephony completely, but it could lead to higher prices and increased regulatory oversight of the nascent industry. Ripple effects could also reach traditional phone networks and the Bells, as VoIP providers call on authorities to help broker deals that would allow them to roll out 911 support faster.

[TalkL8]

Vonage is Clear

Why can't people take responsibility for their actions. Admit it if you can't read english, admit it that you don't understand english. It took just a few seconds to know that I had to register for the 911 service. Don't use the legal system to show the world that you are not capable to follow simple instructions. Vonage has done everything possible to let subscribers know to register for the 911 service. I stand behind Vonage on this one!

Of course it TEXAS

Texas home of Enron and the criminally psychopathic, president Boosh. This is simply another attempt to stop progress and democracy in America by the Boosh administration. Since they can't control the profits for their good ole boys network this gang of theives wont allow the good citizens of the USA the ability to put money back into their own pocket by saving on communications.

Considering cell phones, land lines, internet communications, and cable TV most connected families are easily spending $400.00 per month to stay "in touch." Taking just a bit out of the mouths of the communications giants (especially SBC also from Texas) just won't be tolerated by Boosh. Sooooo thus the law suits.

[MajorCB]

CLEAR AS CRYSTAL

Vonage on its web site tell you before you8 buy that you must activate the 911 seperately and when you install the vonage software to run the phone AGAIN IT TELLS YOU TO ACTIVATE 911 Seperately.
Only the dumb of the dumbest can fail to understand that, HOwever in Texas with its tons of Tex-Mex Illegals who knows what really happened

[tzeilman]

Clear enough

I've only been using Vonage for about 6 weeks. I had no problem understanding how 911 calls are set up and what happened to calls after 911 is called. The instructions on the Web site are clear, and a follow-up email after signing up reminded me that I needed to set it up. Perhaps it's only unclear to baby bell's and attorney's. For those of us who appreciate the low-cost service, it's clear enough. And maybe it's clear enough what the real incentive for litigation is.

PMO

Yes, doesn't it just **** ya off? It's the same group of jerks who were trying to make the courts insert the feeding tube in the Schievo case. This administration wants IT ALL THEIR WAY.
They are out of control and need a wake up call in the mid term elections.

America must speak out.

Democrats and republicans alike must sent the message. We want democracy not an autocratic leadership influnced by the high rolling lobby loungers. American democracy has moved to IRAQ, and Sadam is now running our country.

[snorby]

VoIP providers need to take responsibilty, too.

It often seems that the VoIP providers excuse themselves from taxes, 911, E911, and other regulations by claiming that they are information service providers not communications service providers. Also, as Vonage points out in this article, the telephone companies should provide them access to the PSAPs, presumably through their 911 communications switches. If Vonage and other VoIP service providers want to be full service communications providers, they should step up to delivering such services instead of hiding behind lobbied-for exemptions to taxation and regulation.

Vonage Discussion

Is this the Steve Norby who went to Arizona State and graduated in 1987 or so?

[Rusdude]

Read the lawsuit!

Did anyone bother to read the actual complaint? The link to the PDF file of the complaint was provided in the article. I suggest you go read it (only 14 pages and pretty much in plain English) before you start dismissing the claims.

Next, what's the deal with anti-Texas sentiment? Many, many people in Texas don't like Bush and he has nothing to do with this lawsuit anyhow. Second, Bush family isn't even from Texas but from New England originally.

To those who mentioned the problem of illegal immigrants (which also has nothing to do with this), I suggest you get your facts right and then you'll find out that California has the most illegals coming in (and don't forget Arizona & New Mexico either).

[lambinus]

Read the petition. . .

....as stated by the above writer. Even the writer Gam should have enough comprehension of the written word to see their way through their ignorantt rant.

Lose the emotion and read the facts!

[pjonesCET]

911 over VOip (Vontage)

Why on earth would anybody use voice over IP for 911 services. VOiP should not even be expected to provide any #11 service be it 911,411,811 whatever.

[Rusdude]

So, what to do?

So, if VoIP isn't going to provide 911, 411, etc. services, what do you do? Most x11 services you could live without probably, but not 911. When someone breaks in your house what are you going to do?

Even if you put a number of the local police station on speed dial, what happens if you can't talk for some reason but the police has no way of getting your name & address?

What happens if you lose power completely and can't make VoIP calls period???

You can keep a landline for emergency use, but then why even bother switching to VoIP?

P.S. For the record, I'm a supporter of VoIP. Still, I haven't switched yet. I keep my landline mainly for faxes, international calls, and occasional dial-up (when broadband goes out). Many people view unlimited US-wide calls as advantage, but I have free long distance on my cell plan, so I'm set.

VOIP is no different than POTS

Even though the medium for transfer is different, the essence of the content remains the same-VOIP must be regulated down to it's very core. The business of Communications has exploded over the last 5 years and the rules of engagement need to be adjusted to promote fair business for all players. The regulation of traditional land-line providers should not be exclusive and should encompass all forms of communications-this provides the consumer with the basic necessicities for communication to anyone and everyone that are under the jurisdiction of the United States Government and regulation of all communication providers ensures businesses will try not to skirt around laws that are specified for only certain types of communication mediums.

[unknown unknown]

Over regulation

There is tendancy to over regulate.

any field or all of them

obviously john, if the big boys want to play on the vonage field, they can. No one is stopping them that i can see. They just want to remove the possibility of more vonage type players before they lose their entire business to a bunch of upstarts with a better idea for america. You must be a commie subverssive or a republican.. same difference i guess.

and then what?

So the next step would be for the Fed or the states to regulate email and then chat rooms and then private instant messaging.

You guys are traveling the proverbial "slippery slope." You just don't have the answers so you keep on ranting about regulation.

This administration is in so much trouble they have to revert almost ALL regulatory functionality to the states. They sent all of the taxpayer money and SS money to their friendly business partners. So now, they are pushing back all other govt functions to the state for control so no fed funds are needed. Problem is, the states are broke too.

If you open your eyes, youll see the same thing. If you don't you keep blaming the Democrats including Bill and Hill for everything that Boosh has failed at.

wrong again

saying boosh has nothing to do with this lawsuit is like saying that he is proabortion..
the reason they moved from the east was because the family of young boohes was terribly disliked (geo sr.) They move into a restricted neighborhood where no jews, blacks or hispanics were allowed. not only is he a psychopath, he is a bigot. :)

Vonage setup is simple - Why can't Lawyers or Bells figure it out

I purchased my LinkSys device which came with a flyer that was completely clear about the 911 service not being setup automatically. The online signup for the Vonage service asked me at least 2 times to confirm that I knew the 911 service needed to be manually configured. I followed the steps to setup the account then went to the website to setup the 911 service. It took me a few moments and I was setup for 911 services. Oh, I forgot, I had to double check where I lived by giving my cross streets. I also had to wait the 24 hours for them to confirm back to me that I was setup.

In my opinion, as long as you can read and navigate a website then you should be able to follow the simple instructions from the website. For these states and lawyers to think that it is anything other than simple is absurd. Maybe they should have their 8 year old kid sign up for it and show them how easy it is to do. Maybe they will then drop the stupid lawsuit and move on to something less productive in life, chasing after ambulances.

Vonage and other Internet phone vendors are offering a great service to Internet users. If you can use the Internet then you deserve to take advantage of what it has to offer with cheaper phone services. Why do the states or ?Bells? need any more of our money? Can?t they just get along with Vonage and the other Internet phone vendors to make the world a better place? Why do the Lawyers have to get involved? Do the ?Bells? think that bringing in the Lawyers will help? Oh, that?s right; they forgot that we are the customer. They only pay attention to the bottom line, how much money can they make. The have forgotten that they are a service industry and need to provide the services that customers want. Some of us want inexpensive Internet based phone services. If they would do more listening then maybe they might hear us. Maybe they need to use the clearer VoIP lines in lieu of their POTS lines; then they might hear us?!!

TADA

Thanks, that would seemingly end all the moronic conversation about the system being non functional. (it won't) It works, it will work and as everyone knows from past experience and news expose's, the traditional land line 911 system is rife with problems.

The propblem is not the call itself, its the follow up and the communication barriers and lack of standards of communication or expertise and protocall.

Bottom line is that most lawyers are too busy sending checks to the bank to get computer literate. They are computer averse generally.

We still have court reporters typing transcripts instead of voice recognition software doing the job. Does that tell you anything about the judicial branch?

bingo

some cars come with 2 wheel disc brakes, some with 4. some have all wheel dive, some have 2 wheel drive. Some have side air bags, some dont.
have the lawyers stopped those without side air bags.. nope.

now if the same manufacturer managed to make an engine that was equivilent to a perpetual motion machine and used no energy.... well then we would see them in court saying that the car was indeed unsafe without side air bags.. Most likely it would occur in Detroit. Ya think?

www.vonage-forum.com predicted it

The Vonage VoIP Forum members said this would happen: http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic3843.html

oil

nope we use mostly canadian oil but we really want to get away from that. We want to take the oil from developing countries. This way we can squelch the third world totally and slow down any further healthy growth in developed countires like France and the UK.

As far as the economy, you miss the point by about 1200 miles. The plan was to intentionally let the economy flag. Why you ask? It's simple if you think like Rove and Boosh... fear.

People who are fearful will NOT ever challenge anything. They will not change jobs, they won't challenge changes to health care or drug benefits or wage concessions. You are so tied up in the conservative economics you can't see reality. As their fellow workers were laid off the fear factor set in and most people would do anything to stay employed.

Note the productivity numbers of the past 6 years, pretty impressive huh? Well that tells you the real story. Fewer workers doing more for less. Longer hours, fewer benefits, lower pay all to keep their jobs. Look at the airline industry.....
So like I said, you missed the point and you were fooled like most americans.

Then as another distraction layer, Boosh started the war on Iraq. Sadam? is he any worse than the genocidal leaders in Africa? Nope, but he had oil and we could identify them as "bad guys" because as a tradition, the women wear burkas.
Really, its too complex and bizarre for someone like you to understand.

You have to be accustomed to thinking outside the box and look at hundreds of contributing factors. Unfortunately, you are too young and unable to process more than an few Fox news and Rush Limbaugh,,Anne Coulter, O Whyme, Hannitty, Couric, Drudge, and oh so many others... sound bites at once.

Okay.

At this point, I'm just going to agree to disagree with you. The Bush administration is far more to the right than I would like, but you clearly seem to be on the far left. Now, either you have a mountain of clear evidence you're not sharing with me, or you're behind a very large wall of perceptual defense, but I have neither the time nor the desire to continue this verbal swordplay with you.

There are a few valid points in all the arguments you have given me, but only a few. Frankly, I've heard all too much of this leftest dogma before, and both leftest and rightest dogmas have been really starting to annoy me. So, I concede this debate on the basis that I don't want to read it yet another time.

The only point I will make is this: we don't get most of oil from Canada. While we are getting oil from many other sources, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the middle east is still the primary source of oil. I'd cite my source, but frankly, two minutes in any search engine should provide you with hundreds of sources. If you're interested, look it up yourself.

Besides, if there is any truth whatsoever to this peak oil business, we just might need to have a slow economy so we can weather the very hard adaptation period that is to come. If we go ahead hard-charging and peak oil hits, we'll just be hit that much harder. So, if you're right, and the sour economy is all the fault of Bush. . .well, I'm done. We disagree on too many points for me to bother continuing. We'll be locked in this debate until the end of time, and that's far more time than I'm prepared to invest.

Your link.... (rolls eyes at the ignorance)

.....Powell may be best known for his efforts to relax rules against media ownership and his crusade against broadcast indecency, which targeted prominent figures including Janet Jackson--after her breast-baring Super Bowl disaster--and talk-show host Howard Stern. On one memorable occasion.......

Is this what you are pointing to as proof of mike powells openmindedness? I dunthinsolucy...


You may not have been aware enough, as you have proven so many times in your posts, that what this administration does best is attack ferociously at anyone or anything that disputes its viewpoint. (too many examples come to mind, but the Swift boat liars party will suffice) Now mike powell knew full well he could not and would not get away with just closing the door on the voip so he hugged it to death. While doing so made sure the states (and he mentions it in the linked article) would do their part to dismantle the whole state piece by state piece.

You see.. your eyes are half open at least. But half open is more dangerous than fully closed simply because you believe what you say as you think it has some substance and veracity. It doesnt. Not a single point of yours has meant anything, its just a bunch of words aimed at a boosh basher.

Boosh deserves all the bashing one can produce. Hes a lying, hypocritical psychopath bent on destroying american values and democracy here at home. Just watch, in less than 5 years Jesus will be mentioned in the pledge of allegience in our schools and it will be Boosh's fault.

the countdown begins

[TalkL8]

AMEN

This is a buyer's be ware world. You can mess up a screw driver if you don't know how to use it. The same with a phone, if you are not ready to use the phone get training.