Spyware-killing Vista could take out rivals

(continued from previous page)

But the anti-spyware market won't disappear overnight. Vista will ship at the end of 2006, and users aren't likely to instantly buy a new PC or upgrade. "You will have a two-to-three-year window before Vista has a major impact on anti-spyware," Pescatore said.

Microsoft is also making security moves outside the anti-spyware space. The Redmond, Wash., company is readying a consumer antivirus product called Windows Live OneCare and enterprise software called Microsoft Client Protection. "The Windows security aftermarket has become too large for Microsoft to ignore it," Jaquith said.

Elsewhere on CNET
Top 10 Anti-spyware tools

Guide to the best applications for fighting spyware, courtesy of CNET and Download.com

Consumers and small businesses will get their anti-spyware protection mostly from Microsoft and may also opt for the company's antivirus product, analysts predicted. However, larger organizations will look to their trusted antivirus software makers, such as Symantec, McAfee and Trend Micro, for protection, they said.

But not everyone agrees that Vista can make spyware disappear or that its arrival spells the end of the anti-spyware industry. "I think all of these operating system enhancements are going to be helpful in the battle on spyware. I don't think there is a silver bullet, though," said David Moll, chief executive officer of Webroot, the largest standalone anti-spyware seller.

Vista will have an impact, but it won't shut the door on spyware, agreed Alex Eckelberry, president of Sunbelt Software, maker of the CounterSpy tools. There's a huge economic benefit for spyware creators and hackers to continue their practices, he said.

If Vista and Defender don't completely eliminate the threat, then there will always be a market for third party solutions, said Chris Swenson, an analyst at The NPD Group.

"I think Microsoft's new products look excellent, and they will significantly reduce the threat," Swenson said. "But...I'm more of a skeptic about their ability to prevent every single instance of spyware from infiltrating PCs."

The purveyors of spyware will respond to Windows Vista with more sophisticated attacks, Moll said--and that means people will have to be as vigilant in dealing with spyware in the Windows Vista world of the future as they are today.

"It is going to remove the low-hanging fruit. It is going to make it that much harder for dumb spyware to work," Gartner's Pescatore said. "What it will really do is start forcing the threats further up the food chain," he added. Attackers will have to get smarter in fooling the user--what's called social engineering.

Microsoft's Wilson predicts a rise in phishing attacks, which seek to dupe users into giving up personal information by using fraudulent e-mail messages and Web sites. "The profit motive is always there. They are looking for the easiest way they can trick people to getting things on their machines," he said. "We have seen a transition from spyware to phishing."

[Lindy01]

Good

I have never gotten a virus since DOS 3.3 until now. I have spent a lot of good money on AV software though.

I used to get pop-ups/spyware on occasion nothing serious and I would regularly run things like Ad-aware or spybot.

However since the combination of SP2 for XP, Microsoft Anti- spyware (now defender) and Symantec Anti-Virus Corporate edition 9 & 10 I have gotten nothing?.not a single pop-up or piece of spyware/malware?etc on any of the 4 PC?s running XP in my house.

All of my PC?s have auto-update turned on since it was available and I am sure that has something to do with it but I honestly think most of this is just a cash cow for these companies quoted in this article.

When I switch to Vista I am going to dump AV software all together and just go with auto-update and the built in defender.

[eSchmeltzer]

suspicious

I bet this guy works at microsoft!!! Nothing they ever make works the way they claim.

[wvgravehunter]

You can't dump AV for Defender

Sorry but that is a mistake to dump your av software for windows defender. Windows Defender is a spyware/maleware remover and has nothing to do with Virus Protection. When you boot up vista the first thing you see is a baloon. No Anti Virus Software Detected.... So Norton, AVG and the others will be in business for sometime to come

[inachu]

I would like to know the retail price.

I don't mind paying for Windows Vista if its under $420

[Lindy01]

I read

somewhere that is going to be $99 for the Home premium version.

[stacyann81]

Don't do it!

I wouldn't waste your money just yet, as a Vista user I can tell you, stick with XP for at least another year.....

[kelmon]

Should Not Need Another Application Anyway

I'm pleased to hear this news and hope that it really does turn out
like this. While I'm not a fan of anti-competitive practices (e.g. the
Internet Explorer and Media Player issues), I do see security as
being a core function of the OS and therefore one that I would
much rather was not out-sourced to another company. I wish
Microsoft the best of luck in this and hope that its results means
that we no longer need the likes of Norton AntiVirus or Ad-Aware
in the future.

[VI Joker]

I would not get rid of AV just yet

I do not think Vista's improvements will be enough to uninstall any AV software. While I agree you should not need an AV\security application, they are neccessary since OS upgrades are done with less frequency than AV software.

[lewissalem]

Nothing to worry about...

..Spyware software companies have nothing to worry about. Windows Vista will have a whole new set of weaknesses that virii can exploit.

[Christopher Hall]

It's "viruses"!

"Virii" isn't a word.

[theoscnet]

YUP

My thoughts exactly...

[Zymurgist]

XP held the same promise.

It was indeed an improvement, yet the problem
worsened.

One cannot discount the skills and
resourcefulness of the authors of malware.
Saying that Vista will put anti-spyware firms
out of business is like saying DRM measures will
thwart piracy. At best, both have fleeting
efficacy and are rapidly overcome by
knowledgable people adapting to the new
technology.

[Jesus#2]

exactly.

We heard this a few years ago. I will believe it when I see it. What's
funny about this....is their "solutions" should have been standard in
the first place. You don't need to redesign the OS to implement
these changes. A simple redesign of IE along time ago would have
slowed the amount of spyware... they are doing this a little late in
the game.

[Christopher Hall]

Have you used Defender?

It's quite nice, very powerful. Much better than any of the other free anti-spyware programs I've had the displeasure of installing on my family's computers over the years.

Give it a shot.
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx

[Amazingant]

DRM is funny

it's very easy to simply play a song that has DRM in any normal media player, and then record it into an mp3 with a program called audacity. wow! the DRM is gone now!!! that was hard...

[aabcdefghij987654321]

Nope, XP was released prior to MS's code review

Vista will be the first post-review consumer OS release and that means a signifigant improvement in overall security because even now some of the problems found in that review weren't patched back into XP.

[fhowden]

end spyware

We need a small, and simple to operate program, that will return really vicious worms to the authors. That will end spyware forever

[Nocturnex]

heres a simple idea

get a text editor, possibly one bundled with windows(or if your smart get Linux...), and read a tutorial on hacking, then another on programming put two and two together along with a nice cracked Blackice Server protection(cracked by you mr. future reverse engineer), which nicely logs any ip, then have at it....its your choice whether to rant about it or actually do something about it...maybe youll actually end up hacking google or something and they hire you for vulnerability testing and you end up making much more than your usual 9-5 day flipping burgers for your local mcdonalds....maybe youll even end up going to the biyearly Microsoft Hacker Convention, i might see you there..., if people would stop writing about it and whenever they get a spam email send the company a nice and friendly 16,000 emails an hour with a friendly mail bomb till they beg you to stop sending their message to every account their bot makes, anyways that my MOTD

[gnurob]

New Windows Follows Established Best Practices

A.K.A. Other operating systems sported these for years (excecpt for the unnecessary anti-spyware tool): Mac OS X, UNIX and GNU/Linux, etc. Sadly Microsoft will hail this as some sort of innovation.

The old joke Macintosh 89 / Windows 95 is back again in its newest form. Working professionally on over a dozen different operating systems including Mac OS X, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, GNU/Linux, NetWare, and Windows makes this sort of announcement especially frustrating. When will users drop the monkey see - monkey do attitude and recognize that other, better, products exist.

[Christopher Hall]

Man, get over it

The whole "innovation" argument is so tired. Nobody - including Apple, Microsoft, and the major *nix distributors - has done anything truly original, all going back to Xerox. Every single aspect of the modern operating system has been lifted from somewhere. People like you just need to stop whining about it.

[VI Joker]

Marketing, marketing, marketing

Its the one things M$ has done better than Apple, UNIX, and Linux as far as OSs. They prey on the people's lack of knowledge and concerns then spin them into "improvements" that the general population is not aware exisited previously. Apple did a great job of this with the iPod, it would be to their benifit if they did the same thing with they Mac products.

[briancgraham]

I'll believe it when I see it!!

This is just another case where Microsoft is 'over-stating' and 'over-hyping' their next release. However, they have yet to release anything that has been tested and proven to be solid BEFORE RELEASE! (They seem to leave that work to the public. ;-) )

Until they begin to display this type of behavior you can bet I'll be running a 2rd party software to protect my data and my time.

I have never had a problem running my XP machines with the Zone Labs Integrity Desktop firewall (free), Grisoft's AVG antivirus (also free), and either Adware or SpyBot Search and Destroy.

There is NO WAY I would run Vista without them.

[VI Joker]

Smart Consumer

Unfortunately you are not in the majority, most people when they get Vista will be swallow the M$ marketing. Others will upgrade to Vista do some investigating and come to a conlusion to whether or not the hype has any truth to it. Other will not upgrade to Vista till 2009 or till SP1 one comes out, which ever comes first. The rest will be on Linux, Mac, or any OS that is not Windows.

[sanenazok]

I don't think so

For once, where do they get off saying that "We got a handle on spam." Wow, did you? Is it because Outlook 2003(r) has a mediocre text-based filtering system that's two years behind free apps? Do you mean to say that IIS e-mail services handle spam? I get as much spam today as I did three years ago.

Hopefully, Microsoft Windows Vista(r) will fix IE to the point where it will be impossible for spyware to be installed without your knowledge. Of course, what should happen if someone intentionally installs a program that is ad-supported. I guess the Microsoft Defender (tm) might take it out, but then again it will probably not be perfect. So there'll be a demand for other anti-spyware products to make sure systems are protected.

[brendlerjg]

That's what they said about Internet Explorer

I bet they'll make it next to impossible to turn it off and use a competitor's product too.

Oh, and spyware IS and afterthought, for everybody EXCEPT Windows users.

[Amazingant]

Probably

they will probably end up doing that, and then i'll file a law suit for not allowing me to use Firefox. i mean, if someone can win a law suit for not labling a cup of coffee as being hot, then i can win this.

[uparrow]

Bad Luck

Too right.

I'm not paying for Vista if it's anything under $365.43....

[Tiger1964]

But who will upgrade?

I'll believe the hype when I see it. But how many of us are going to
go out and spend alot of money on a new system just to run
Vista??? Not me, I'll stick with my little mac.

[VI Joker]

Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony...

... will be leading the charge. The M$ gameplay comes equiped with front people, which is how M$ got and kept the market share for so long. People will not upgrade any time soon, but if they buy a new PC you bet its going to have Vista on it instead of XP.

[TheTSArt1]

Defender going to be Free?

I thought I heard that once Defender was out of Beta it was no
longer going to be free.

This article seems to make it sound as if it is always going to be
free and is going to protect all Vista systems.

[JorisEvers]

Defender = Free, OneCare=Not

Yes, Windows Defender will be built in to Windows Vista. It won't cost anything. A version for Windows XP will also be available, at no cost.

Microsoft will charge for Windows Live OneCare, its antivirus product that includes some PC health tools (like defrag and backup) as well as antispyware.

Joris Evers
News.com

[digikid]

MS could save themselves the trouble by using a UNIX core...

Welcome to the wonderful world of secure computing with Linux/UNIX. The "new inventions" in Vista have been core parts of *NIX since 1973.

Get with it.

[rivsys]

LOONIX

You know, Microsoft has cost me many sleepless nights. Boy, I wish they were perfect. Sometimes I wish they were even good.

But you LOONIX guys amaze me.

You just continue to drink your own acidic Kool-Aid, while writing your little open source mini-apps that no responsible business manager will ever, ever deploy. When are you going to tire of pissing up that rope?

The simple fact is that Windows rules the market for corporate desktops, and will for the foreseeable future. UNIX derivatives are hopelessly stuck in second or third depending on how you define the MAC OS.

"Secure Computing With L/UNIX since 1973." LOL, ever hear of DIGITAL or VMS? Where do you think NT came from? And, BTW, I thought LINUX was written from scratch? Sure looked like it to me when I first messed with it. I mean, it was GREAT. I could boot a computer into it but essentially had a useless device that had to RE-COMPILE THE KERNEL EVERY TIME I NEEDED TO INSTALL SOMETHING.

So, you get with it.

Fix your hardware support problems and write some applications that are reasonable substitutes for the extensive MS catalog deployed on networks around the world - along with some server-based systems that don't really suck (including APACHE and MYSQL) - or crawl back under the rock from which you came out to post your little drive-by-mini-rant.

Personally, I don't have the luxury of sitting on the Open-Source-Soapbox moaning about this and moaning about that while paying customers want me to develop/deploy/fix/maintain systems on their WINDOWS-BASED ENTERPRISE NETWORKS.

CYA at the bank, dood. Or maybe not.

[rudy28]

Suprise Suprise!

I can't believe it! No one can! (or atleast should)

So Microsoft is gonna have a rock solid operating system that
will be able to handle security attacks, and now will have anti-
spyware all worked out.....this sounds so familiar.....oh yeah it's
the traditional broken promise and bloated lie....you rember the
old ones don't you??

The new version of windows(95) will eliminate the need to
reboot (well most of the time). BIG FAT LIE

The new version of windows(98) is Plug and Play, no more
worries about drivers or configuration problems BIG FAT LIE

The new update to windows (SP2) has the best security features
and will dramatically decrease vunerabilities and the need for
patches BIG FAT LIE

The new version of windows(95,98,2000, XP) is Rock Solid and
crash proof "blue screens will become a thing of the past" BIG
HUGE FAT LIE

Were making it harder for attackers to get in and no how to
handle the ones that do in the new version of windows (BLEAK
VISTA) CAN YOU SAY LIE

Vista is a DRM nightmare! Designed from the ground up to
exploit the "consumer" and will be just like everything else,
worse then before, and more vunerable then a virgin in a federal
prizon.

[Charleston Charge]

Let me guess...

you don't like Windows???

[rudy28]

Well let's see

Your using a hardware firewall.........Big help costs $$
Using anti-spyware...................Big help costs $$
Your not logged on as an administrator....big help (can be a
pain)
Shut down regularly.....Big help

- I don't have a HW firewall, don't even use built in software on
most of the time
- I don't have any anti-spywear, or antivirus software on my
system
-I am always running as Administrator, and rarely shutdown.

(Never had a successful attack, definately not any viruses, and
spywear is non existant.....but I'm on a Mac)
Point is, if I was on Windows running my system like I do, I'd be
down most of the time.....I know, because my roomates are
down most of the time on all their Windows Systems.

[Jim Harmon]

Not really necessary

I am always logged on as administrator. I don't use any type of firewall. I don't use any spyware tools. While I do occasionally run a virus checker, it has yet to find anything. My system is never down unless I'm finished using it.

What am I doing that keeps the system clean?

1) Not visiting any "dangerous" sites such as porn or "hacker" sites.
2) Not installing any software that includes "klingons."
3) Not opening any mail that is "suspect" - and NEVER opening any attachments unless (a) I know the sender AND (b) the sender has SAID there is a file attached.

These three precautions have kept my system up and running, and free from anything undesirable.

Sadly, #2 has prevented me from using most of the truly free(as opposed to the "free to try") software available at CNet's Download.com

[concernedcitizen]

Wake Up! - MS Anti-Spyware = Best Way To "Break" Competitors New Web Apps

Microsoft?s interest in providing free (or low cost) anti-spyware and anti-virus software is not out of a desire to provide a more secure PC for the user, it's purely out of a self-preserving interest.

I can not think of a better way to "break" competitors new web apps than telling (common) pc users that the (competitors) web software that they are about to run "could be spyware" - what a great way to frighten that average user into not using a competitors new web software. And best of all, Microsoft does not even have to change the OS code to break the competitors new web apps -- they just have to update the current list of known spyware with the name of the competitor?s web application (via web updates).

Microsoft already breaks competitors desktop applications by changing the windows OS (but Microsoft can only do this OS "trick" once every 4 or 5 years). With anti-spyware, who-ever "owns" the anti-spyware software on the desktop will be the one who gets to "break" whatever competitors web software they desire (i.e., or, at least temporarily frighten common pc users into not using a competitors apps, until Microsoft can "catchup"). This is just too powerful of an opportunity for Microsoft to allow another software company (competitor) to "own" the (desktop) rights to.

[concernedcitizen]

Example: "Warning: You're About To Run Non .NET Manged Code"

For example, once Microsoft acheives anti-spyware market share, they could decide to simply "scare" users by saying "Warning: You're About To Run Non .NET Manged Code" to keep, say, 50% of common users to not adopt a new web/windows application.

Remember what Internet Explorer 6 said (even if there was no real reason to):

"... Internet Explorer has restricted this file from showing active content that could access your computer."

[concernedcitizen]

Example: "Warning: '(fill in competitors app name) Could Contain SpyWare."

see title.

[unlawflcombatnt]

Computer Industry Scumbags

I can easily see why someone wouldn't run any of the anti-spyware, firewall, and anti-virus program scams. Every single time I run one it slows down or shuts down my computer. As far as I can tell, the whole industry of "anti-" programs is nothing but a scam. None of them do anything I can see, except wreck my computer. These "anti-" programs continually lock up my computer. I can't even get online much of the time when they're running. I'm on my 3rd new computer in the last 2 weeks, and this one is going back as soon as I can find a replacement. The next computer I get will have 0 anti-spyware, anti-virus, and firewall protection. It seems these are solutions that are worse than the problem. It doesn't do any good to have this alleged "protection" if you can't even get online.

The whole computer industry/scam is providing progressively worse products every year. They're only concerned about upselling their latest non-functional software to solve problems they created themselves, as well as forcing users to buy new "improved" operating systems to replace better functioning ones of the past. This latter is nothing but greed-induced planned obsolescence. It has nothing to do with providing a better product and everything to do with raking in undeserved profits for newer, poorly functioning upgrades.

Microsoft and other computer production suppliers are nothing but Corporate criminals. Though it may be legal to change operating systems and make previous ones obsolete, it's certainly a slimeball way to make money.

I'd like to see Bill Gates and all the other Corporate thugs in the computer industry go to prison. Unfortunately, their scumbag practices are apparently legal, and will remain legal as long as Corporate America controls our government.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary http://www.unlawflcombatnt.blogspot.com/

EconomicPatriotForum http://www.unlawflcombatnt.proboards84.com/

[Jeremiah256]

NOT AIMED AT ME (OR YOU)

Look, I'm not going as far as Concerned Citizen (post# 47) and say Microsoft will use their built in anti-spyware to break competitors web apps, but regardless, I don't want Microsoft to be the one determining what is spyware and what's not. Especially since they were slow to slam Sony's use of rootkit technology. I'd rather not risk having Microsoft determine that ads from their Live Web project or what ever it's called, is not spyware and interfere with my wife's websurfing experience.

By the time I'm forced to upgrade my wife's computer to Vista (not even near a top priority since we just bought her a new computer), I'll have plenty of data from the early adapters on what's the best alternative spyware and firewall to use.

And as for worrying about spyware and viruses, most of us on this forum are above average when it comes to setting up and securing our systems. For the average user whom this is aimed at, it's a good thing. Windows is not as inherently as secure as Mac OS X but you can't deny it's gotten better over the years, forced in no small part by people like us making our voices heard and our comparision of Microsoft products like Internet Explorer to alternatives.

[Terry Murphy]

Amazingly naive...

To be blunt, there will be no such thing as a "Spyware-killing"
Vista. Period. Certainly not because of the utter simplistic notion
that because Microsoft finally decides on taking a best - well,
better - approach to software security in Vista than it has in
previous OS efforts, everything will change. It's a new dawn in
technology, lol.

Unfortunately, that is no basis for even assuming Spyware
authors will even be remotely deterred. If you believe the
"Spyware-killing" Vista riff, you're living in a fantasy world. Not a
good place to be in a discussion revolving around security.

Here's the issue that everyone seems to quietly ignore: the
security game for Microsoft is over. That's right, over - and it
has been (rather obviously) for quite some time now. Microsoft
lost (abdicated, actually, lol), and the spyware authors of the
world won. That's the way it's been on the Windows platform
FOR YEARS up until now. Spyware, Inc., thanks to Microsoft's
reluctance to effectively deal with early enough, was allowed to
become big business and now has simply too much invested in
Windows to let MS's new OS stand in the way of their livelihood.
It's here to stay

And the problem for Microsoft (well, users actually) isn't just the
deep entrenchment of Spyware, et al., on it's platform. Insofar as
Vista is concerned, the minute the first copy of Vista ends up in
Mr Joe Consumer's house, Microsoft will have put all of it's
security cards face up on the table. Spyware authors, on the
other hand, have the luxury of not showing a single card in their
hand until they have taken the time to analyze what Microsoft
has done (or not done) security-wise with Vista. That's a
tremendous advantage for Spyware, a serious disadvantage for
Microsoft, and that's a distinction that cannot be overlooked,
underestimated, or, as in the case of this article, conveniently
ignored.

I mean you seriously don't believe that the folks who write
Spyware today cannot adapt/rewrite their code accordingly for
any changes that show up in the Window's platform tomorrow,
do you? Not that they may need to very much since activeX and
the system registry are all coming along for the ride in Vista.
You know, Just like the good old days, lol.

[Dachi]

Well stated and exactly right

Too bad CNET does not have a moderation for comments like this one.