February 12, 2006 12:15 PM PST

So long, Dalai Lama: Google adapts to China

Tech companies have come under attack for helping the Chinese government police the Web. But few have cooperated as openly as Google.
The New York Times

The story "So long, Dalai Lama: Google adapts to China" published February 12, 2006 at 12:15 PM is no longer available on CNET News.

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Do the Lesser Evil
You have two choices.
Bring China's population @ large into the internet as a whole, where any intelligent person can find whatever they want if they look hard enough, and bow to govt pressure tweaking the search in a way that still turns your stomach,

OR

Keep the largest and fasting growing market of internet users away from the internet, INSURING THAT THEY WILL REMAIN BEHIND THE IRON FIREWALL!!

Think people. Google is not stupid.

This, in my opinion, is a clear case of, DO THE LESSER EVIL.

ps. has everyone forgotten that Google has created a lab in China run by the x-Microsoft guy?
Sorry, can't remember his name. They've done it because a whole culture of 1.5 billion is waking up to the modern age and are pationate about advancing themselves. Mark my words, China cannot stop the ability of the internet to make ALL information available. They can only slow it, and I bet not for long.

http:thewwa.blogspot.com
Posted by CoreyCottrell (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Possibly, or...
are they blinded by money?

If they are helping China present a revised history to many of their people, helping China to tailor the truth that their people are allowed to see, then are they not colluding with what China is doing to her people?

You might want to read about IBM's former work with the Nazis, at <a href="http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/ibm.htm">http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/ibm.htm</a>
Posted by truks (12 comments )
Link Flag
Hello!!
Quote: "ps. has everyone forgotten that Google has created a lab in China run by the x-Microsoft guy?"

I live in BFE and every company in my area has a "lab" in China. Guess what? It has nothing to do with the Chinese "waking up to the internet age". It's all about the money. They're cheaper than India.
Posted by ScullyB (52 comments )
Link Flag
Do the Lesser Evil
You have two choices.
Bring China's population @ large into the internet as a whole, where any intelligent person can find whatever they want if they look hard enough, and bow to govt pressure tweaking the search in a way that still turns your stomach,

OR

Keep the largest and fasting growing market of internet users away from the internet, INSURING THAT THEY WILL REMAIN BEHIND THE IRON FIREWALL!!

Think people. Google is not stupid.

This, in my opinion, is a clear case of, DO THE LESSER EVIL.

ps. has everyone forgotten that Google has created a lab in China run by the x-Microsoft guy?
Sorry, can't remember his name. They've done it because a whole culture of 1.5 billion is waking up to the modern age and are pationate about advancing themselves. Mark my words, China cannot stop the ability of the internet to make ALL information available. They can only slow it, and I bet not for long.

http:thewwa.blogspot.com
Posted by CoreyCottrell (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Possibly, or...
are they blinded by money?

If they are helping China present a revised history to many of their people, helping China to tailor the truth that their people are allowed to see, then are they not colluding with what China is doing to her people?

You might want to read about IBM's former work with the Nazis, at <a href="http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/ibm.htm">http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/ibm.htm</a>
Posted by truks (12 comments )
Link Flag
Hello!!
Quote: "ps. has everyone forgotten that Google has created a lab in China run by the x-Microsoft guy?"

I live in BFE and every company in my area has a "lab" in China. Guess what? It has nothing to do with the Chinese "waking up to the internet age". It's all about the money. They're cheaper than India.
Posted by ScullyB (52 comments )
Link Flag
Google should just say no to censorship
Google shouldn't work as a censor for repressive governments. They can just turn down the money. They don't have to lend their name to something destructive. It isn't the case with Microsoft where the Chinese can threaten to turn the software pirates loose and cost Microsoft billions. Google should have just said no. They are morally and criminally liable for helping China repress free thought.
Posted by lingsun (478 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Just for the record...
The Chinese software pirates are already loose, and they have cost
MS and other many billions of dollars. And in China, pirating is
legal.
Posted by Earl Benser (4342 comments )
Link Flag
Google should just say no to censorship
Google shouldn't work as a censor for repressive governments. They can just turn down the money. They don't have to lend their name to something destructive. It isn't the case with Microsoft where the Chinese can threaten to turn the software pirates loose and cost Microsoft billions. Google should have just said no. They are morally and criminally liable for helping China repress free thought.
Posted by lingsun (478 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Just for the record...
The Chinese software pirates are already loose, and they have cost
MS and other many billions of dollars. And in China, pirating is
legal.
Posted by Earl Benser (4342 comments )
Link Flag
don't be evil (unless it hurts the bottom line)
In Asia, unlike in the US, Yahoo! has the dominant share of search traffic, with Google in second place. Is it coincidence then, that Google is willing to be a little evil in the most up-and-coming search market in Asia?
Posted by mep1 (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
don't be evil (unless it hurts the bottom line)
In Asia, unlike in the US, Yahoo! has the dominant share of search traffic, with Google in second place. Is it coincidence then, that Google is willing to be a little evil in the most up-and-coming search market in Asia?
Posted by mep1 (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
So long Dalai Lama, maybe you should try the search again...
Just checked the search on Google.cn and the first two results were for the Tibetan Government in exile home page and many other links to the Dalai Lama.

Am I operating in a parallel universe or does the story need updating?
Posted by NGcomm (39 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Search in Chinese
Well... I just tried searching Dalai Lama in both Chinese and English, from within China. The results are not filtered if you search in English. And it is filtered using Chinese. Ty this <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&#38;newwindow=1&#38;q=%E8%BE%BE%E8%B5%96%E5%96%87%E5%98%9B&#38;meta=" target="_newWindow">http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&#38;newwindow=1&#38;q=%E8%BE%BE%E8%B5%96%E5%96%87%E5%98%9B&#38;meta=</a>

Generally the Chinese government does not block English contents; that's why I can read this article, but blocks Chinese contents.

Generally despite of these filtering, the censorship is much more soft and ease than before. Go to Chinese sites like sina.com.cn or bokee.com (a Chinese blog site,) there are full of articles critizing the government and the party, some calling it ***** or ditators and yet they are allowed. Just stay away from the a few sensitive topics. (Indeed a paradoxical and interesting phenomena.)
Posted by hackingbear (80 comments )
Link Flag
So long Dalai Lama, maybe you should try the search again...
Just checked the search on Google.cn and the first two results were for the Tibetan Government in exile home page and many other links to the Dalai Lama.

Am I operating in a parallel universe or does the story need updating?
Posted by NGcomm (39 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Search in Chinese
Well... I just tried searching Dalai Lama in both Chinese and English, from within China. The results are not filtered if you search in English. And it is filtered using Chinese. Ty this <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&#38;newwindow=1&#38;q=%E8%BE%BE%E8%B5%96%E5%96%87%E5%98%9B&#38;meta=" target="_newWindow">http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&#38;newwindow=1&#38;q=%E8%BE%BE%E8%B5%96%E5%96%87%E5%98%9B&#38;meta=</a>

Generally the Chinese government does not block English contents; that's why I can read this article, but blocks Chinese contents.

Generally despite of these filtering, the censorship is much more soft and ease than before. Go to Chinese sites like sina.com.cn or bokee.com (a Chinese blog site,) there are full of articles critizing the government and the party, some calling it ***** or ditators and yet they are allowed. Just stay away from the a few sensitive topics. (Indeed a paradoxical and interesting phenomena.)
Posted by hackingbear (80 comments )
Link Flag
That is strange...
because when I tried the search, of the first 120 images (the search returned 38,500 hits) more that 110 were pictures (photographs, sketches, etc.) of the Dalai Lama himself.

Maybe C:Net should do the search again... or maybe, the censorship is somewhere else... definatly not at google.cn
Posted by simelane (114 comments )
Reply Link Flag
That is strange...
because when I tried the search, of the first 120 images (the search returned 38,500 hits) more that 110 were pictures (photographs, sketches, etc.) of the Dalai Lama himself.

Maybe C:Net should do the search again... or maybe, the censorship is somewhere else... definatly not at google.cn
Posted by simelane (114 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Google must obey the law!
This is something that American's (typically of the variety that has never lived outside of North America) tend to miss; American multi-national corporations have to adhere to the legal requirements of the jurisdictions in which they do business or they fall foul of the law - whether they agree with those laws or not.

I am certain that Google, Microsoft and Yahoo would never comply with illegal censorship requirements (or any illegal requests for that matter), anywhere in the world.

In Europe it is illegal to promote or trade in artefacts that emanate from the Third Reich, so Microsoft, Yahoo and eBay censor and block any trading sites on their platforms that do so from being accessed from countries such as France and Germany (this does not appear to apply to the UK, though).

The Google issue is a moral one, and the question that we should all be asking both ourselves (as shareholders with vested interests in seeing the maximisation of returns on our investments) as well as the captains of industry that lead our corporations is is there a moral line that should not be crossed, no matter what the financial cost? I believe that if there was such a line, there would be no starvation in this world (the world certainly produces enough food to feed most of the poor nations); citizens of the US and Europe would long have forced their governments to end unfair trading practices such as farm subsidies, trade barriers, etc. that discriminate against developing countries, etc. and are directly responsible for the starvation of millions of people around the world.
Posted by simelane (114 comments )
Reply Link Flag
You need to keep up with the court rulings
CNET Headline:"Yahoo does not have to comply with a French court decision that requires the company to block Nazi-related material from French consumers, a federal judge ruled on Wednesday"

Keep in mind that was a French court that made the ruling.This is because they are based in North America.

Every person that puts up a website has no possible way of adhering to every law of every country that can view its contents.
Posted by ScullyB (52 comments )
Link Flag
Google must obey the law!
This is something that American's (typically of the variety that has never lived outside of North America) tend to miss; American multi-national corporations have to adhere to the legal requirements of the jurisdictions in which they do business or they fall foul of the law - whether they agree with those laws or not.

I am certain that Google, Microsoft and Yahoo would never comply with illegal censorship requirements (or any illegal requests for that matter), anywhere in the world.

In Europe it is illegal to promote or trade in artefacts that emanate from the Third Reich, so Microsoft, Yahoo and eBay censor and block any trading sites on their platforms that do so from being accessed from countries such as France and Germany (this does not appear to apply to the UK, though).

The Google issue is a moral one, and the question that we should all be asking both ourselves (as shareholders with vested interests in seeing the maximisation of returns on our investments) as well as the captains of industry that lead our corporations is is there a moral line that should not be crossed, no matter what the financial cost? I believe that if there was such a line, there would be no starvation in this world (the world certainly produces enough food to feed most of the poor nations); citizens of the US and Europe would long have forced their governments to end unfair trading practices such as farm subsidies, trade barriers, etc. that discriminate against developing countries, etc. and are directly responsible for the starvation of millions of people around the world.
Posted by simelane (114 comments )
Reply Link Flag
You need to keep up with the court rulings
CNET Headline:"Yahoo does not have to comply with a French court decision that requires the company to block Nazi-related material from French consumers, a federal judge ruled on Wednesday"

Keep in mind that was a French court that made the ruling.This is because they are based in North America.

Every person that puts up a website has no possible way of adhering to every law of every country that can view its contents.
Posted by ScullyB (52 comments )
Link Flag
Google Killer: One new idea to kill google
Search engines don&#8217;t have any competition. Traditional media like newspapers and television reduce their ad rates to compete with their competitor newspapers and televisions. And as a result, their margins are always around the standard 10% mark.
But, in the case of search advertising, advertisers bid for ads. The business model is different. Methods for pricing of ads are different. Google&#8217;s profit margins in their web search engine excluding other new services may be as high as 50%. But, Google need not reduce their ad rates. Advertisers will continue to pay the current ad rates even if their Adwords program returns a profit margin of 80%. Because of this kind of business model, the one who benefits the most is the website where the ads are placed.
Search engines are the only winners.

But, something can be done here. We need a new model or system where search engines pay a part (a certain percent) of their revenue back to their advertisers. For example, a search engine, if it has a net profit margin of 40%, can give assurance that they will return 20% of the money paid by the advertisers back to them.
That is, advertisers can bid as usual, but all advertisers should get a fixed percent of the amount paid to search engines back from the search engines.
This give back can be fixed monthly or fixed dynamically, or, there are many options.
If this is done, the process of bidding will happen as usual and at the same time, the advertisers will see some competition.
As it is a well known fact that the profit margins of search engines are only going to rise in the future, this will help advertisers a lot. And, maybe, we may see the profit margins of search engines decline if such a system is introduced.

Are any of the search engines interested in doing this?

email me? do at-
fnpnet(at)yahoo(dot)com
Posted by fnpnet (3 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Google Killer: One new idea to kill google
Search engines don&#8217;t have any competition. Traditional media like newspapers and television reduce their ad rates to compete with their competitor newspapers and televisions. And as a result, their margins are always around the standard 10% mark.
But, in the case of search advertising, advertisers bid for ads. The business model is different. Methods for pricing of ads are different. Google&#8217;s profit margins in their web search engine excluding other new services may be as high as 50%. But, Google need not reduce their ad rates. Advertisers will continue to pay the current ad rates even if their Adwords program returns a profit margin of 80%. Because of this kind of business model, the one who benefits the most is the website where the ads are placed.
Search engines are the only winners.

But, something can be done here. We need a new model or system where search engines pay a part (a certain percent) of their revenue back to their advertisers. For example, a search engine, if it has a net profit margin of 40%, can give assurance that they will return 20% of the money paid by the advertisers back to them.
That is, advertisers can bid as usual, but all advertisers should get a fixed percent of the amount paid to search engines back from the search engines.
This give back can be fixed monthly or fixed dynamically, or, there are many options.
If this is done, the process of bidding will happen as usual and at the same time, the advertisers will see some competition.
As it is a well known fact that the profit margins of search engines are only going to rise in the future, this will help advertisers a lot. And, maybe, we may see the profit margins of search engines decline if such a system is introduced.

Are any of the search engines interested in doing this?

email me? do at-
fnpnet(at)yahoo(dot)com
Posted by fnpnet (3 comments )
Reply Link Flag
True Colors
Google is showing its true colors, so much for being a "good company", its become a "good communist company"...
Posted by FutureGuy (739 comments )
Reply Link Flag
True Colors
Google is showing its true colors, so much for being a "good company", its become a "good communist company"...
Posted by FutureGuy (739 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Ha Ha
People had faith in a corporation to not only share their moral values but champion them in the face of huge profit loss. Suckers.
Posted by Bob Brinkman (559 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Ha Ha
People had faith in a corporation to not only share their moral values but champion them in the face of huge profit loss. Suckers.
Posted by Bob Brinkman (559 comments )
Reply Link Flag
 

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