Sex content leads to adult rating for 'Theft'

After percolating for weeks, the so-called "Hot Coffee" controversy has finally boiled over.

Following an investigation by the Entertainment Software Rating Board, or ESRB, "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" will now bear an AO, or Adults Only, rating, Take-Two Interactive announced on Wednesday. Previously, the game was rated M for Mature.

The re-rating comes nearly a month after reports first surfaced of the "Hot Coffee" modification for the PC version of San Andreas. After installation, the widely available modification allowed users to play a bonus sex minigame.

After videos of the modification were widely circulated, figures including Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, blasted the game (Clinton also publicly equated violent games with cigarettes and alcohol as hazards to America's youth). Political heat led to a ESRB investigation into whether or not the modification was included in the original game or was made by a third party.

Who rocked the code?
Rockstar Games, the Take-Two subsidiary that develops and publishes "San Andreas," issued a carefully worded statement earlier this month stating that the racy content was not part of the original game but included in the modification. "So far we have learned that the 'Hot Coffee' modification is the work of a determined group of hackers who have gone to significant trouble to alter scenes in the official version of the game," it read.

However, reports soon surfaced that the console versions of "San Andreas" contained code for the sex minigame. Late last week, GameSpot editors unlocked the code from a PlayStation 2 copy of "San Andreas" bought in October 2004 using an Action Replay Max device and a series of cheat codes. Because console games are written on unalterable DVDs and cheat codes cannot introduce new content, the fact the minigame was playable at all means it was included in the original PS2 "San Andreas," albeit hidden. (GameSpot is a division of CNET Networks, publisher of News.com.)

The AO rating means that, according to the ESRB's official definition, the current version of the game now "should only be played by persons 18 years and older" and "may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity." This doesn't sound far off from the ESRB definition for the M for Mature rating, which says titles bearing the M must "have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language."

But the AO and M ratings are different in one big way: Most major chain stores, including Wal-Mart, will not carry AO-rated games. By contrast, M-rated games aren't even separated from games bearing the T for Teen, E10+ for Everyone 10 and older, and E for Everyone ratings.

"Rockstar Games has ceased manufacturing of the current version of the title and will begin working on a version of the game with enhanced security to prevent the 'hot coffee' modifications," Take-Two said in a statement. "This version will retain the original ESRB M-rating and is expected to be available during the Company's fourth fiscal quarter." The company will also release a patch for the currently available PC version of the game that will lock out the sex minigames.

Most industry watchers had expected a hefty fine from either the ESRB or possibly even the government. Some even speculated that Take-Two would be forced to recall all copies of the game, at catastrophic expense.

For its part, Take-Two stuck by its contention that the re-rating was "due to unauthorized third party 'Hot Coffee' modification." The publisher reminded the public that "the scenes depicted in the 'Hot Coffee' modification are not playable in the retail version of the game unless the user downloads and/or installs unauthorized software that alters the content of the original retail version of the title, representing a violation of Take-Two and Rockstar's end user license agreement (EULA) and intellectual property rights."

Paul Eibeler, Take-Two's President and CEO, also gave his personal thoughts in the statement. "We are deeply concerned that the publicity surrounding these unauthorized modifications has caused the game to be misrepresented to the public and has detracted from the creative merits of this award-winning product," he said.

Tor Thorsen reported for GameSpot.

[jeroethel]

Who's kidding who

If the code is in the game, then it was intended to be found. It is just a sex easter egg like the topless girls in Leisure Suit Larry if you know the access code.

Looks like original game disks will be collector's items. Buy them up on Ebay.

[jeroethel]

Who's kidding who

If the code is in the game, then it was intended to be found. It is just a sex easter egg like the topless girls in Leisure Suit Larry if you know the access code.

Looks like original game disks will be collector's items. Buy them up on Ebay.

Logic: Extreme Violence -OK; Sex - Bad

What am I missing here? It's okay for kids to play a game that deals with theft and violence, but is bad for them to see the sex part? What kind of logic is that? Why isn't this game rated AO just for the violence?

[Andrew J Glina]

My thoughts exactly

I am also wondering if Australia (where I am from) will re-rate the game. We don't allow games that can't meet the M rating over here. Even Larry was banned!

Logic: Extreme Violence -OK; Sex - Bad

What am I missing here? It's okay for kids to play a game that deals with theft and violence, but is bad for them to see the sex part? What kind of logic is that? Why isn't this game rated AO just for the violence?

[Andrew J Glina]

My thoughts exactly

I am also wondering if Australia (where I am from) will re-rate the game. We don't allow games that can't meet the M rating over here. Even Larry was banned!

[ckought]

Does this mean Sims & Sims2 will get an AO rating?

There are cheat codes and downloadable objects (like nude skins) that, although not supported by Maxis, aren't dissuaded or stopped either. I've even seen mods that allow the Sims to have SIMulated sex.

[TMB333]

Different Circumstances

I would have to say that the SIMS mods are different to the GTA mods in that the code for the GTA mod was ALREADY in the original game (i.e. written in by the developer Rockstar). Someone just found a way to 'unlock' it.

The SIMS mods are actual modifications that are ADDED to the original code. Dedicated 'hackers' were able to make modifications to the original skins and graphics of the game. This code was not written in by Maxis.

[ckought]

Does this mean Sims & Sims2 will get an AO rating?

There are cheat codes and downloadable objects (like nude skins) that, although not supported by Maxis, aren't dissuaded or stopped either. I've even seen mods that allow the Sims to have SIMulated sex.

[TMB333]

Different Circumstances

I would have to say that the SIMS mods are different to the GTA mods in that the code for the GTA mod was ALREADY in the original game (i.e. written in by the developer Rockstar). Someone just found a way to 'unlock' it.

The SIMS mods are actual modifications that are ADDED to the original code. Dedicated 'hackers' were able to make modifications to the original skins and graphics of the game. This code was not written in by Maxis.

[Sentinel]

What difference does it make?

So before the re-rating, people under 17 couldn't buy the game. Now, with the AO rating, people under 18 can't buy the game. I guess 18 must be an age of enlightenment, where everything makes sense, and you can distinguish good from evil, something that is impossible to do if you are a year younger than 18? Puh-lease!

[TMB333]

A Big Difference Financially

I thought the same thing at first, but the big difference is that major outlets like Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Circuit City etc., do not carry Adult Only software. It's already been reported that Best Buy pulled all of their GTA software off the shelves immediately when the rating was changed, and other chains will be soon to follow their lead.

This could have a HUGE financial impact on the sales of the software from Rockstar's perspective. Also, the average consumer might be less likely to purchase this game if they are required to go to their local 'sex shop' to get it.

You can be sure that Rockstar will be quick to get an amended version of the software out as quickly as they can. Picture it, GTA: San Andreas, THE CLEAN VERSION! No more killing cops, pimping prostitues, randomly murdering pedestrians and having sex with your girlfriend. Now you'll only be able to kill cops, pimp prostitues, and randomly murder pedestrians. Ah, how much safer our kids must feel now.

[Sentinel]

What difference does it make?

So before the re-rating, people under 17 couldn't buy the game. Now, with the AO rating, people under 18 can't buy the game. I guess 18 must be an age of enlightenment, where everything makes sense, and you can distinguish good from evil, something that is impossible to do if you are a year younger than 18? Puh-lease!

[TMB333]

A Big Difference Financially

I thought the same thing at first, but the big difference is that major outlets like Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Circuit City etc., do not carry Adult Only software. It's already been reported that Best Buy pulled all of their GTA software off the shelves immediately when the rating was changed, and other chains will be soon to follow their lead.

This could have a HUGE financial impact on the sales of the software from Rockstar's perspective. Also, the average consumer might be less likely to purchase this game if they are required to go to their local 'sex shop' to get it.

You can be sure that Rockstar will be quick to get an amended version of the software out as quickly as they can. Picture it, GTA: San Andreas, THE CLEAN VERSION! No more killing cops, pimping prostitues, randomly murdering pedestrians and having sex with your girlfriend. Now you'll only be able to kill cops, pimp prostitues, and randomly murder pedestrians. Ah, how much safer our kids must feel now.

[rs1990]

Ridiculous

This whole situation is so ridiculous. We are so uptight as a society here. Do these idiot senators even understand what went on here or are they just trying to get in the paper? This can only be played by downloading something and installing it off the interenet...it is not like it is a part of the game that the ESRB wasn't shown or had hidden from them that some kid might stumble upon accidentally in regualr gameplay. Plus, what difference does that 1 year really make...most high school kids are having real sex before that age anyway, so, no need to worry about them seeing some cartoon sex.
I just hate how all of these public figures use things like this to make names for themselves. It also amazes me that parents cannot take some responsibility and watch what their kids are doing every now and again.

[rs1990]

Ridiculous

This whole situation is so ridiculous. We are so uptight as a society here. Do these idiot senators even understand what went on here or are they just trying to get in the paper? This can only be played by downloading something and installing it off the interenet...it is not like it is a part of the game that the ESRB wasn't shown or had hidden from them that some kid might stumble upon accidentally in regualr gameplay. Plus, what difference does that 1 year really make...most high school kids are having real sex before that age anyway, so, no need to worry about them seeing some cartoon sex.
I just hate how all of these public figures use things like this to make names for themselves. It also amazes me that parents cannot take some responsibility and watch what their kids are doing every now and again.

[mynix]

I SUPPORT ROCK STAR GAMES

By MATT SLAGLE, AP Technology Writer Thu Jul 21, 7:21 PM ET

"Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" is now the only console game to be rated "AO," or adults ages 18 and older only, by the Entertainment Software Rating Board. Known for its carjackings and other violent acts, the game was re-rated from "M" to "AO" this week.
ADVERTISEMENT

According to the ESRB  the self-regulatory body set up by the gaming industry which sets the ratings  54 percent of games were rated "E," for everyone in 2004, while 33 percent were rated "T" for teen. Twelve percent were rated "M" for ages 17 and older, while less than 1 percent were rated "AO." There are just 16 AO rated games total.

In the ratings description for the bugged "San Andreas," the ESRB cites blood and gore, intense violence, nudity, strong language, strong sexual content and use of drugs. But plenty of violent, sexually suggestive M-rated games would seem to fit a similar bill.

___

"The Guy Game," ($30, PC,
PlayStation 2,
Xbox). This quiz-show format game involves scantily clad female spring breakers on the beaches of South Padre Island, Texas. The goal involves testing your brain power against a series of half-nude female partygoers, who'll strip down and flash their breasts if you can successfully predict if they'll correctly answer questions. The game is rated "M" for crude humor, nudity, strong language, strong sexual content and alcohol.

"Playboy: The Mansion," ($40, PC, PS2 and Xbox). A computerized Hugh Hefner strolls around in his red smoking jacket, half-naked women latched to his arms. As Hef, your goal is to schmooze, party, flirt  and then some  as you become a national icon. The ESRB gave it an "M" for nudity, strong sexual content and use of alcohol.

"Postal 2," ($20, PC). This game from the creative minds at Running With Scissors aims for shock value but earned an "M" rating for blood and gore, intense violence, mature humor, sexual themes, strong language and use of drugs and alcohol. You control a disgruntled postal worker and lead him on unabashedly ultraviolent killing sprees involving hapless civilians in an Arizona town.

"Leisure Suit Larry: Magna *** Laude Uncut and Uncensored," ($30, Vivendi Universal Games). You are Larry Lovage, controlled in a quest to score with the ladies at a local community college. As charmingly innocent as it may sounds, this special cut of the game earned an "AO" rating for mature humor, nudity, strong language, strong sexual content and use of alcohol.
...................................................

After the whole Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas scandal.... (if you can call it a Scandal). Nest Egg Studios priority to make sure that the largest demographic of game players (age 18-43) doesn't stay silent; That WE HAVE A VOICE.

Shame on media, lax parents, and government, trying to once again sensor mature rated games. Trying to use their moralistic views on all game companies and suggest they should be categorized a tabacco and alcohol contraband..(VICE) This all from an incident that, where knowledge of the industry and a sound ratings system is ignored in place of ill-advised moral extremists.

Parents need to use the ratings system (the same way as movies and music labels are ) that has been put in place, and stop being lax in their pursuit to allow their children to play any game they beg for. It sickens me to see a mother on the CBS NEWS, glorify how evil the game corporations have become because she failed as a mother to police what her 15 year old child is playing. She contends this wild conspiracy that all mature rated +17 games ( which is only 16% of the market) are all evil and lateen with sin because she doesn't know. A lax society is responsible for this, and it hurts the freedoms of others.

Rock Star Games has done NOTHING WRONG. They had adhered to an appropriate rating system for their mature content. There is NO point to AO ratings, it is redundant to have a mature 17 + rating knowing very well that most of those games are MEANT for the mature gaming demographic and that they are violent and contian sexual content. With a taboosih society running amuck.. It is hard for those of us game creators making games for the mature gaming segment even harder to raise funding, bring our product to the massess because of moral extremists. No one is screaming holy hell about m other mature rated games such as The Play Boy Mansion; which clearly was more sexual explicit than a silly mod for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

It is just a another attempt at censorship, stake burning , blood bath, power hungry, money hungry, witch hunt, trying to corner a market that polices itself with a sound ratings system. Where government powers want more control over it, and other companies such as Best Buy and Wal-Mart want to put their faces in the media so they can say they are helping the common man by pulling a RATED game off the shelves in protest to make their investors happy.

The doublestanders that media and society play on each other is appalling. It makes me ashamed to be apart of such a hypocritical society. As I have stated many times over, we as adult consumers need to stand up and make sure our voices are heard loud and clear. It is nice and dandy to sit in the comfort of your home, watch and *****. However unless you want Government and Corporations to tell you what you want, you need to stand up and support those of us developers that work hard to make mature entertainment for you. You need to support a ratings system that supports you and your entertainment needs.

I can not emphasize this enough. It's only your support and the awareness of the mature gaming segment that can make any difference. Give ROCK STAR GAMES your support. Tell them not to change anything. Consider your entertainment rights as serious as any other political stand point you admirer.

Ms. V
CEO Nest Egg Studios
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.nesteggstudios.com" target="_newWindow">http://www.nesteggstudios.com</a>

[mynix]

I SUPPORT ROCK STAR GAMES

By MATT SLAGLE, AP Technology Writer Thu Jul 21, 7:21 PM ET

"Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" is now the only console game to be rated "AO," or adults ages 18 and older only, by the Entertainment Software Rating Board. Known for its carjackings and other violent acts, the game was re-rated from "M" to "AO" this week.
ADVERTISEMENT

According to the ESRB  the self-regulatory body set up by the gaming industry which sets the ratings  54 percent of games were rated "E," for everyone in 2004, while 33 percent were rated "T" for teen. Twelve percent were rated "M" for ages 17 and older, while less than 1 percent were rated "AO." There are just 16 AO rated games total.

In the ratings description for the bugged "San Andreas," the ESRB cites blood and gore, intense violence, nudity, strong language, strong sexual content and use of drugs. But plenty of violent, sexually suggestive M-rated games would seem to fit a similar bill.

___

"The Guy Game," ($30, PC,
PlayStation 2,
Xbox). This quiz-show format game involves scantily clad female spring breakers on the beaches of South Padre Island, Texas. The goal involves testing your brain power against a series of half-nude female partygoers, who'll strip down and flash their breasts if you can successfully predict if they'll correctly answer questions. The game is rated "M" for crude humor, nudity, strong language, strong sexual content and alcohol.

"Playboy: The Mansion," ($40, PC, PS2 and Xbox). A computerized Hugh Hefner strolls around in his red smoking jacket, half-naked women latched to his arms. As Hef, your goal is to schmooze, party, flirt  and then some  as you become a national icon. The ESRB gave it an "M" for nudity, strong sexual content and use of alcohol.

"Postal 2," ($20, PC). This game from the creative minds at Running With Scissors aims for shock value but earned an "M" rating for blood and gore, intense violence, mature humor, sexual themes, strong language and use of drugs and alcohol. You control a disgruntled postal worker and lead him on unabashedly ultraviolent killing sprees involving hapless civilians in an Arizona town.

"Leisure Suit Larry: Magna *** Laude Uncut and Uncensored," ($30, Vivendi Universal Games). You are Larry Lovage, controlled in a quest to score with the ladies at a local community college. As charmingly innocent as it may sounds, this special cut of the game earned an "AO" rating for mature humor, nudity, strong language, strong sexual content and use of alcohol.
...................................................

After the whole Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas scandal.... (if you can call it a Scandal). Nest Egg Studios priority to make sure that the largest demographic of game players (age 18-43) doesn't stay silent; That WE HAVE A VOICE.

Shame on media, lax parents, and government, trying to once again sensor mature rated games. Trying to use their moralistic views on all game companies and suggest they should be categorized a tabacco and alcohol contraband..(VICE) This all from an incident that, where knowledge of the industry and a sound ratings system is ignored in place of ill-advised moral extremists.

Parents need to use the ratings system (the same way as movies and music labels are ) that has been put in place, and stop being lax in their pursuit to allow their children to play any game they beg for. It sickens me to see a mother on the CBS NEWS, glorify how evil the game corporations have become because she failed as a mother to police what her 15 year old child is playing. She contends this wild conspiracy that all mature rated +17 games ( which is only 16% of the market) are all evil and lateen with sin because she doesn't know. A lax society is responsible for this, and it hurts the freedoms of others.

Rock Star Games has done NOTHING WRONG. They had adhered to an appropriate rating system for their mature content. There is NO point to AO ratings, it is redundant to have a mature 17 + rating knowing very well that most of those games are MEANT for the mature gaming demographic and that they are violent and contian sexual content. With a taboosih society running amuck.. It is hard for those of us game creators making games for the mature gaming segment even harder to raise funding, bring our product to the massess because of moral extremists. No one is screaming holy hell about m other mature rated games such as The Play Boy Mansion; which clearly was more sexual explicit than a silly mod for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

It is just a another attempt at censorship, stake burning , blood bath, power hungry, money hungry, witch hunt, trying to corner a market that polices itself with a sound ratings system. Where government powers want more control over it, and other companies such as Best Buy and Wal-Mart want to put their faces in the media so they can say they are helping the common man by pulling a RATED game off the shelves in protest to make their investors happy.

The doublestanders that media and society play on each other is appalling. It makes me ashamed to be apart of such a hypocritical society. As I have stated many times over, we as adult consumers need to stand up and make sure our voices are heard loud and clear. It is nice and dandy to sit in the comfort of your home, watch and *****. However unless you want Government and Corporations to tell you what you want, you need to stand up and support those of us developers that work hard to make mature entertainment for you. You need to support a ratings system that supports you and your entertainment needs.

I can not emphasize this enough. It's only your support and the awareness of the mature gaming segment that can make any difference. Give ROCK STAR GAMES your support. Tell them not to change anything. Consider your entertainment rights as serious as any other political stand point you admirer.

Ms. V
CEO Nest Egg Studios
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.nesteggstudios.com" target="_newWindow">http://www.nesteggstudios.com</a>

[Pmeyers1978]

Parents don't know the meaing of the word Mature

Personally the rating change or the mini sex game grand theft auto san andreas does not bother me at all. I find it quite funny that the same parents who let there kids see PG-13 movies which have female top nudity and all the actions you see in this game. R-movies have male and female full frontal nudity. Anyone who goes to the movies knows that the majority of people in the movies now adays are underage teenagers. The fact that pixels are causing parents to say that this game is such a horrible offenseive device that is turnnning kids into things that they don't see in 100's of other places on a daily basis is a joke. The game was rated Mature, that alone should tell parents not to buy the game for there 12 year old. Yet these same parents let their kids go to the latest America Pie movie. Once more parents are shifting balme and politicians will clamor for face time as a video game will be held responsible for all of the problems that a undisiplined generation has. In London bombs almost went off killing 100's, here in America kids see pixels dry humping and billinons must be spent so that they learn that they should never dry hump, and parents learn that Mature means do not let your underage kid play it.

[Pmeyers1978]

Parents don't know the meaing of the word Mature

Personally the rating change or the mini sex game grand theft auto san andreas does not bother me at all. I find it quite funny that the same parents who let there kids see PG-13 movies which have female top nudity and all the actions you see in this game. R-movies have male and female full frontal nudity. Anyone who goes to the movies knows that the majority of people in the movies now adays are underage teenagers. The fact that pixels are causing parents to say that this game is such a horrible offenseive device that is turnnning kids into things that they don't see in 100's of other places on a daily basis is a joke. The game was rated Mature, that alone should tell parents not to buy the game for there 12 year old. Yet these same parents let their kids go to the latest America Pie movie. Once more parents are shifting balme and politicians will clamor for face time as a video game will be held responsible for all of the problems that a undisiplined generation has. In London bombs almost went off killing 100's, here in America kids see pixels dry humping and billinons must be spent so that they learn that they should never dry hump, and parents learn that Mature means do not let your underage kid play it.

[heystoopid]

But Then Again!

But then again, one sees more violence,mayhem, death and other on the 6 o'clock news, does this mean, that the all nightly tv news should be reclassified as AO due the excessive violence shown. Oh well, next these twits will be burning down libraries, for containing sex education manuals and other unmoralistic books like crime novels et al!

[heystoopid]

But Then Again!

But then again, one sees more violence,mayhem, death and other on the 6 o'clock news, does this mean, that the all nightly tv news should be reclassified as AO due the excessive violence shown. Oh well, next these twits will be burning down libraries, for containing sex education manuals and other unmoralistic books like crime novels et al!

[cpudrewfl]

Ebay

Its still not gonna stop non adults from getting the game. I have sold GTA games on Ebay and I would never be bothered with checking the age. Kids will be able to get these M or AO games on Ebay and not have to worry about the BS of going to the mall.

[cpudrewfl]

Ebay

Its still not gonna stop non adults from getting the game. I have sold GTA games on Ebay and I would never be bothered with checking the age. Kids will be able to get these M or AO games on Ebay and not have to worry about the BS of going to the mall.

Suitable for children?

I don't want to see certain video games put in yellow cabients marked with three X's; we should not have to go that far. But then again, children will get their hands on "stuff" despite the best efforts of their parents. All we can do is hope to educate children to know what is acceptable in a civilized community, and what is not -- and to hope that the education sticks.

Suitable for children?

I don't want to see certain video games put in yellow cabients marked with three X's; we should not have to go that far. But then again, children will get their hands on "stuff" despite the best efforts of their parents. All we can do is hope to educate children to know what is acceptable in a civilized community, and what is not -- and to hope that the education sticks.

Who cares?

These games aren't meant for children or teens anyway - what's the big deal? I seem to remember the original GTA was R18 as well.

Who cares?

These games aren't meant for children or teens anyway - what's the big deal? I seem to remember the original GTA was R18 as well.

Who do they think they are kidding?

BS

The content was created intentionally. It was left in intentionally. It was hidden from the ESRB intentionally.

No matter how morally innocent these developers "who work hard to make mature entertainment for ME" want to pretend to be, they know for a fact that a majority of the customers who play and buy their games are NOT of the 17+ age demographic that they claim the games are designed for. If that wasn't the case, there would be no need for them to fight so hard every time a state tries to pass a law making it illegal to sell M rated games to minors. They can cry about how it violates artistic civil rights and what not until they are blue in the face, but the fact remains that if they did not WANT to and COUNT ON selling those games to minors, it would be no sweat off their backs if a law was passed to make sure that kids aren't allowed to buy these games on their own and make it a crime for anyone to sell them to said minors.

Had there been a law on the books THAT WAS HEAVILY ENFORCED that made it illegal for minors to buy M rated games, there would be no way in hell that San Adreas would ever had sold over 5 million copies. Such a law would make it harder for kids to buy M rated games. It would put the decision to buy said games back into the hands of adults FORCING them to either get smart about the content they are buying or to TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY for their kids playing it if they are the dumbasses who bought it for them. Sure, you'd have the kids who get their older friends and cousins to buy it for them right after they buy them cigarettes and booze, but you'll always have those who are going to break the law. In the end though, the only ones who would be hurt by legislation that makes it illegal to SELL M rated games to kids are the kids who can't play the games anymore and the game developers who WANT the kids to buy them.

Money talks and I'm not an idiot who would believe any of the double talk that these developers "who are only looking out for MY best interests" may spout. A heavily enforced law on the books that limited the sale of M rated games to the adults that they are puportedly made for would hurt their bottom line. They'd sell less games. In turn, they'd make less M rated games because they would become less profitable. They'd stick to making games that they have the largest LEGAL consumer base to sell them to. So I guess the rest of you who like morally corrupt, socially inept, crime spree games would suffer because of it. That's why you'll sit here and "support" this BS.

wow, once again the goverment is trying to tell me what is right/wrong

"No matter how morally innocent these developers "who work hard to make mature entertainment for ME" want to pretend to be, they know for a fact that a majority of the customers who play and buy their games are NOT of the 17+ age demographic that they claim the games are designed for. If that wasn't the case, there would be no need for them to fight so hard every time a state tries to pass a law making it illegal to sell M rated games to minors."

As a matter of fact...the major demographic for Grand Theft Auto ARE 17+. Just to let you know the major demographic for ALL gamers is 18-35, believe it or not. (cmon, we grew up with games).

To respond to you second point, if they made a law to restrict the sales of M rated games to minor, you would have to do the same for the movie industry as well, which is WAYYYY more "immoral" than any video game that has come out. The only people that should be responsible for the games thier kids play are the parents and NOBODY ELSE, not even our government (which has no right no talk about moral issues because most are immoral themselves aka; hypocrisy)

"Money talks and I'm not an idiot who would believe any of the double talk that these developers "who are only looking out for MY best interests" may spout. A heavily enforced law on the books that limited the sale of M rated games to the adults that they are puportedly made for would hurt their bottom line. They'd sell less games. In turn, they'd make less M rated games because they would become less profitable. They'd stick to making games that they have the largest LEGAL consumer base to sell them to. So I guess the rest of you who like morally corrupt, socially inept, crime spree games would suffer because of it. That's why you'll sit here and "support" this BS."

Honestly, even IF you put in a law to stop the sales to kids, it would'nt hurt them that much. Like I said earlier...the main demographic for all gamers is 18+. I seriously doubt they would make less M rated games. The only people that would suffer from a law like this are the people who buy/sell the games to minors. Tell me, has anyone REALLY commited any crime of any sort.

I hope you are happy with the fact that our freedoms are being chipped away bit by bit, GOD BLESS THE DIVIDED STATES OF AMERICA

(sorry if I lost my train of thought or had any grammatical errors, its 7AM :)

Who do they think they are kidding?

BS

The content was created intentionally. It was left in intentionally. It was hidden from the ESRB intentionally.

No matter how morally innocent these developers "who work hard to make mature entertainment for ME" want to pretend to be, they know for a fact that a majority of the customers who play and buy their games are NOT of the 17+ age demographic that they claim the games are designed for. If that wasn't the case, there would be no need for them to fight so hard every time a state tries to pass a law making it illegal to sell M rated games to minors. They can cry about how it violates artistic civil rights and what not until they are blue in the face, but the fact remains that if they did not WANT to and COUNT ON selling those games to minors, it would be no sweat off their backs if a law was passed to make sure that kids aren't allowed to buy these games on their own and make it a crime for anyone to sell them to said minors.

Had there been a law on the books THAT WAS HEAVILY ENFORCED that made it illegal for minors to buy M rated games, there would be no way in hell that San Adreas would ever had sold over 5 million copies. Such a law would make it harder for kids to buy M rated games. It would put the decision to buy said games back into the hands of adults FORCING them to either get smart about the content they are buying or to TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY for their kids playing it if they are the dumbasses who bought it for them. Sure, you'd have the kids who get their older friends and cousins to buy it for them right after they buy them cigarettes and booze, but you'll always have those who are going to break the law. In the end though, the only ones who would be hurt by legislation that makes it illegal to SELL M rated games to kids are the kids who can't play the games anymore and the game developers who WANT the kids to buy them.

Money talks and I'm not an idiot who would believe any of the double talk that these developers "who are only looking out for MY best interests" may spout. A heavily enforced law on the books that limited the sale of M rated games to the adults that they are puportedly made for would hurt their bottom line. They'd sell less games. In turn, they'd make less M rated games because they would become less profitable. They'd stick to making games that they have the largest LEGAL consumer base to sell them to. So I guess the rest of you who like morally corrupt, socially inept, crime spree games would suffer because of it. That's why you'll sit here and "support" this BS.

wow, once again the goverment is trying to tell me what is right/wrong

"No matter how morally innocent these developers "who work hard to make mature entertainment for ME" want to pretend to be, they know for a fact that a majority of the customers who play and buy their games are NOT of the 17+ age demographic that they claim the games are designed for. If that wasn't the case, there would be no need for them to fight so hard every time a state tries to pass a law making it illegal to sell M rated games to minors."

As a matter of fact...the major demographic for Grand Theft Auto ARE 17+. Just to let you know the major demographic for ALL gamers is 18-35, believe it or not. (cmon, we grew up with games).

To respond to you second point, if they made a law to restrict the sales of M rated games to minor, you would have to do the same for the movie industry as well, which is WAYYYY more "immoral" than any video game that has come out. The only people that should be responsible for the games thier kids play are the parents and NOBODY ELSE, not even our government (which has no right no talk about moral issues because most are immoral themselves aka; hypocrisy)

"Money talks and I'm not an idiot who would believe any of the double talk that these developers "who are only looking out for MY best interests" may spout. A heavily enforced law on the books that limited the sale of M rated games to the adults that they are puportedly made for would hurt their bottom line. They'd sell less games. In turn, they'd make less M rated games because they would become less profitable. They'd stick to making games that they have the largest LEGAL consumer base to sell them to. So I guess the rest of you who like morally corrupt, socially inept, crime spree games would suffer because of it. That's why you'll sit here and "support" this BS."

Honestly, even IF you put in a law to stop the sales to kids, it would'nt hurt them that much. Like I said earlier...the main demographic for all gamers is 18+. I seriously doubt they would make less M rated games. The only people that would suffer from a law like this are the people who buy/sell the games to minors. Tell me, has anyone REALLY commited any crime of any sort.

I hope you are happy with the fact that our freedoms are being chipped away bit by bit, GOD BLESS THE DIVIDED STATES OF AMERICA

(sorry if I lost my train of thought or had any grammatical errors, its 7AM :)

[saafdafs]

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