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PC makers walk fine line with 'crapware'
April 18, 2007 -
Trial software trying PC users' patience
May 31, 2006
Some consumers, frustrated with all of the trial software, desktop icons and other stuff that comes loaded on their machines, are doing the same thing.
However, what works for businesses isn't always so easy for individuals. Many computers don't actually come with a clean copy of the operating system. Instead, many ship with a "recovery partition" or a recovery disc that restores the system back to the way it shipped--with all that extra software.
"I'm willing to accept that it comes with junk and I'm willing to clean it up," said Bill Shanner, a self-described "senior-citizen engineer" who has seven laptops and at least a half dozen desktops. "The thing that aggravates me is having to buy a second copy of an operating system. If you pay for something, you ought to get what you pay for."
Some PC makers, like Gateway and Dell, say they do offer consumers a disc with just Windows, allowing them to do a clean install of the operating system, should they choose to do so. Others, like Hewlett-Packard and Sony, use a "system restore" option. HP said it does so to help facilitate product support.
"HP's support experience relies on many of the diagnostics and tools that are specific to the software image provided," a company representative said in an e-mail. "In order to provide this support experience, the system is restored to factory specifications."
Apple also uses a system restore option on Macs, though its machines ship with only two trial programs, iWork and Microsoft Office, along with the full versions of iLife and a handful of other third-party titles.
Shanner said he favors some sort of consumer's bill of rights that would ensure those who buy a PC with Windows can do what they want with it.
Offering a disc with just the operating system seems like a way for PC makers to improve customer satisfaction, said IDC analyst Richard Shim.
"You pay for it, you may as well get it," Shim said. Doing so, Shim said, would also allow companies to keep preinstalling software while giving customers who want to remove the software an easier option.
Lenovo uses recovery partitions, but on more recent models it has started offering a "custom restore" option that enables people to choose which of the software programs to reinstall.
"This will allow users to selectively restore things like our ThinkVantage Technologies or other preloaded software," a Lenovo representative said in a statement.
Some analysts have said that they also expect PC makers to begin experimenting with offering clean PCs--ones without any added trial software or other preinstalled programs. Customers may have to pay extra, though, to offset the fact that PC makers make money from many of the programs they add to a new PC's hard drive.
Current Analysis research director Samir Bhavnani said he thought $25 would be a reasonable price that would make the computer maker whole and be affordable enough to appeal to consumers.
One reason that a "clean PC" is a better alternative than wiping the hard drive is that PC makers also equip their machines with the needed drivers for their specific hardware. Although many PC makers do have them for download on their Web site, finding all of the needed bits can be quite a challenge.
See more CNET content tagged:
Richard Shim, PC company, Lenovo, copy, system restore
Da Worfster
systems, they are NOT on the desktop when you first start up.
Some may be in the dock, but are easily removed. Uninstalling
applications is a simple matter of dragging to the trash.
I say let the market deal with it. If there's a groundswell of opinion, some clever manufacturer is going to notice, and they'll figure out a way to deliver clean PCs for a minimal amount of money; then they'll create some huge advertising campaign, and then they'll all have to follow suit.
When companies talk about "restore partitions" being better for support, what they're really saying is that they don't have support technicians - they've got people who can read a script and click buttons. In my experience, if you do anything to your PC that isn't on their script, they're useless.
Users who are not "rookies" do indeed HATE "restore partitions" which are an insult as well as a real waste of time.
My solution is simple: I refuse to purchase a name brand that doesn't include 2 discs - the OS & the system drivers (why I've built most of my systems over the last 10 years).
I like the idea of the restore partition as I've already used it twice, but I should also have a copy of the CD's. My next suggestion is don't install trialware on computers or at least don't include it in the restore partition or recovery CD's. Most people I know who have owned at least a couple of computers won't use trialware anyway and normally just uninstall it.
With that said, support your local computer stores. I've owned many white box computers and have always had better support from the local business than I have ever gotten from HP or Dell. Sure you generally pay a little more, but at least you get a real Windows CD.
And if you hate Windows then buy a white box PC and load up Linux on it at home or buy a Mac. And remember these companies get away with this crap because "we" let them. Stop buying there products and see how long it is before crapware goes away.
Apparently the disks are DRM'd and have limited allowed copies. So the next thing I did was boot into linux and burn another copy just in case the first copy gets hosed.
Doesn't matter much to me though, openSuSE runs great on my laptop, I don't think I have booted into windows since I burned those first disks.
/P
The hardware OEM's don't want to include CD's or DVD's because in general they have to pay for one for every system and only a small percentage gets used. This is also why "restore partitions" are becoming popular. OK, I get it.
In theory you should be albe to take any generic Windows install disc and re-install from scratch but MS limits this option by their licensing structure (OK) so that a retail XP disc won't install with the license key that is stuck to the back of my new laptop. Again, I'm OK with these restrictions as long as someone can give me the right solution.
The solution is for either MS or the hardware OEM to allow a way to download and burn a disc that conforms to the license that you have without any of the junk in it. Probably better from the OEM standpoint because they can include the drivers for the specific hardware if they're not in the MS standard distribution and make it easier. The objection to this in the past has been piracy, but now with product activation and more bullet-proof keys, Microsoft should be more comfortable with people doing this.
Of course none of this really matters to me personally given that I switched my entire house to Macintosh over the last 6 months. But I do help others fix up issues with their PC's and I'm often amazed at how much junk comes with one these days.
Vista is a very slick and clean OS. It makes me sad to walk through computer stores and see how badly OEMs disfigure it.
They have the idea that you should pay full retail eveery time you install it... even it it's the same system you bought it with...
Sorry for the rant, but I get so tired of being treated like a bootlegger for doing normal system maintenance...
e.g.
if you have a laptop with XP-Home on and you only have a recovery disc and you want a clean install of HOME all you do is borrow a XP HOME CD (not Pro) and install it , when asked for product key type in the key on YOUR Windows Sticker...
when Windows connects to Microsoft it checks this Product Key with Windows Version (home) and the components in your computer..
e.g.
If you have a laptop with sempron chip / seagate 60Gb hard drive and 512Mb RAM... it takes these specs along with mobo type and chasis no. (if has one) and assign XP-HOME with that product key to those specs and stores in Microsoft Databases...
So when you re-install XP Home it check its the same computer as it should be with that product key and bobs yer uncle....
everyone knows someone with an XP home CD...
I may also note that some companys like DELL... and others..
even though they SELL you (if you want it) a copy of the WINDOWS XP CD they sometimes (DELL does) have an option to BURN the Operating System to CD in the ALL PROGRAMS menu... thus you create your won for free rather than pay DELL £15 for the CD...
Mine did anyway....
My Packard Bell had similiar but was the restore image and NOT XP itslef
This is a problem (no OS CD) & why I don't buy OEM's (I don't even have a laptop--what a dinosaur, huh), but to use this to justify piracy is still wrong.
I have had to reinstall Pro from a retail CD (I build my own computers) and indeedy-do I had to talk to a MS rep and get another authorization number---but there was no hassle.
Please don't type in caps--that's shouting.
As for the piracy comment, it technically is piracy if you use a key from one license with a distribution that comes with a different license. MS, of course could fix this if they wanted to.
there are
xp home OEM (this is what your dells and HPs ship with)
xp home retail
xp home MSDN
XP Pro retail
XP Pro MSDN
XP Pro OEM
XP Pro VLK
one key from say an OEM copy will not work with a retail CD.
go ahead and try it if you want, make sure to format your hard drive and lose all your data before hand. then you can come back after you try it and it doesn't work and tell me i was right.
here is what you can do.
you can take a Dell XP OEM home CD and use it to install XP Home on ANOTHER DELL
you can take a HP OEM CD and use it to install on another HP.
you CAN NOT use a MSDN key to install a retail copy
you CAN NOT use a VLK key to install OEM
and so on and such forth...
so just becauswe you have a little sticker on your computer with a key for XP DOES NOT mean any copy of XP on CD will work.
For the record, I do not use Windows or Office. OpenOffice is free and superior. If you are set on a cheap PC go for a linux distro. If you want a quality box with few problems and low maintenance and user friendly then buy a Mac.
On the other hand, it leaves the buyer with who-knows-what preinstalled on their new machine. Getting rid of it can be a nuisance. PC Decrapifier does a pretty good job of this; Add/Remove Programs does the rest. It's the price you pay for a cheap machine.
As far as I'm concerned, there's no excuse for a PC vendor not providing a plain OS disc and a copy of the system's drivers. This would cost only a dollar or two. Recovery partitions are useless if the hard drive crashes. Even if you can use it, you just get all that crapware back on your machine.
It think that all that crapware has been chosen carefully by the manifacturer in order to provide customer satisfaction and productivity while maintainning or increasing system performance.
Have you asked yourself why Toshiba puts Mcafee on some systems while on others Norton or a different brand??
Or how about that yahoo messenger or aim???
Even though in some cases it can be annoying (especially if you don't use that software) you can easily erase that program and no harm done.
And finally, as far as plan windows OS is considered, how many times have you tried to reinstall the system (recover)???
It takes somewhere from 30 to 60 minutes just for the OS to be instaled!!!!
And with a simple recovery CD/DVD this is done in under 15 minutes including all that crapeware but also MS Office and other programs if you have bought them with the system.
It may prove insignificant for one time use but for regular use (once a month) the recovery CD/DVD is a MUST!!!
Not a realistic solution.
However the buyer of a new PC is actually getting the PC cheaper as the software and ISP's are subsidizing part of the cost.
But then again, I won't be able to run my applications, games and use several of my peripherals as well.
I like mimimalism, but this goes too far.
It warned: Do not attempt to install an original MS XP-Pro on this machine as our OS version has been customised to suit our hardware.
It didn't have any amount of crapware, however.
But, haha, I was able to successfully install Xandros 3 Deluxe and have a working dual-boot machine. Even I was surprised ...
Aah, the wonders of Linux...
the tube.
http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/apple-
getamac-fat_480x376.mov
Is this for real? And doesn't Apple's restore CDs also contain the
same junk that regular pcs do?
included is Office and iWork. If you wish to make a clean start,
(tough to get any cleaner than that) the DVD included with your
Mac contains the latest version of OS X and from there you can
CHOOSE what you want to reinstall or uninstall.
- Dylan was right
- by truth_teller May 11, 2007 8:19 AM PDT
- This issue is so absurd; it reminds me about the Bob Dylan line,
- Reply to this comment
-
(89 Comments)"you have to pay to get out of
going through all these things twice."
Cut the crapware! We beat up vendors regularly for selling us stuff that doesn't work. Crapware does not work, so let's beat up the vendors until they change....how about a "Crapware CD" that Dell can bundle (but not install) with their sales...that way, they get some $$, but we have the option of installing what we want...
Sounds like all the "Positively You: Positively Dell" ******** marketing that they claim anyway.