December 13, 2007 5:48 AM PST

Opera files complaint against Microsoft

Opera files complaint against Microsoft
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Browser maker files first complaint to the European Commission since Microsoft lost a landmark antitrust case earlier this year.

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Also the fault of web programmers
The problem that I come across that forces me to maintain a
Windows computer with IE is that small websites that I must
interact with for my business use some javascript which breaks
with other browsers. When I complain, they tell me that I must
use IE. To choose not to do business with them for this reason
would not be practical. All books on web programming explain
to readers early on that they must make their code work on all
modern browsers (and, if possible, older browsers). If this is too
difficult a task, there are several great javascript libraries/
frameworks which simplify the process by giving the
programmer a single interface to work with and handling
browser interoperability in the background. Wherever possible,
we should insist that these new programming techniques be
used. When the playing field is leveled, the best browser will
dominate.

I prefer IE not only for sites where it is the only browser that
works but for it's file saving interface that asks me each time
where I want to save a file and for its usually seamless
integration with helper applications. I don't have to run around
installing plugins and messing around with settings as much.

I prefer Safari wherever it works. It is fast and easy to use. It
works well with all Google owned content. It crashes
sometimes, which is annoying. Crashes are less frequent with
recent updates.

I use firefox where Safari does not work. Firefox has a loose,
bloated feel to it if that makes any sense. It is currently the best
browsers for developers, but I think Safari is catching up in this
area.

I have a problem with IE on my system which some other users
have complained about. When I type fast in a text box (as I am
doing right now), letters get dropped. This seems to have
improved with updates.

Regarding Opera, I have tried it, but I can't get used to it. I
guess that it is a matter of preference. When I tried it on a
Google site (I think Google Documents) and it told me that I was
using an incompatible browser, I gave up on it. I am sure that
they have resolved this by now.

Opera is supposed to be the best for mobile devices. I tried it
on my old Pocket PC and found it to be far superior to the built
in small version of IE. The downside is that it is not free (but not
too expensive either). Also, Safari on new Apple devices may be
an alternative for people who want good mobile browsing.
Posted by drleeds (4 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Make Microsoft Use Web Standards?
Would be interesting to see if the EC can do this, although I don't think they can make MS use a particular standard just becuase its accepted. We'll just have to wait and see the out come.
Posted by NPGMBR (281 comments )
Reply Link Flag
maybe
If it is possible to happen, it will in the EU, Definitely not in the US.
Posted by RompStar_420 (772 comments )
Link Flag
Seperating Media Player failed
MS was forced to sell Windows without Media Player. But that
product didn't sell. MS could make the IE-less Windows fail to sell
too. But when will the masses stop buying Microsoft products?!
Posted by bobcode (73 comments )
Reply Link Flag
"make" it fail to sell?
I think you're confusing that with a product that no one wants, which is an OS that doesn't come with a media player in the box. Why would anyone want it at all? A product without a market.

Does *ANY* retail OS not come with a media player or internet browser anymore? I haven't bought them all, but I've assumed for years that any OS box I pull off the shelf is going to have a browser and media player in the box, and it's STUPID to ask a governing body to require otherwise. Well, SLIMY might be a better word, if you can get that governing body to kneecap your competition, I guess that's not stupid.

Requiring ALL operating systems to come sans browser, sans media player would be more acceptable though.
Posted by KTLA_knew (385 comments )
Link Flag
Stop buying Microsoft? I don't think so.
You ask... "when will the masses stop buying Microsoft products?!"

Never! People buy it because it does what people want to do. MS could be as tiny as Apple if MS software was not so good.

I know... every complains about MS (like the weather), but MS is a hugely successful company because people keep buying. They buy because they have superior products. The proof is in the balance sheet.
Posted by wango2007 (119 comments )
Link Flag
Unbundle? How would people download Opera?
NO IE bundled means we would have to go to a store to BUY a browser! Come on, this is dumb. An OS MUST come with a browser. Nowadays its just part of the OS than you really think. Besides, IE is alot better now than it was.
Posted by irperez (59 comments )
Reply Link Flag
PC makers include it
Dell, or whoever, would bundle Opera as part of the load of software they currently load on a pc when it goes out the door. 'course, they could do that now, but I think MS strong-arms them not to.
Posted by shoffmueller (236 comments )
Link Flag
Opera is Free, it is not 2003 anymore
Opera is free for ages.
Posted by Ilgaz (573 comments )
Link Flag
well...
i think they just want them to make it so that ie is not the indefinite. i use Firefox, but on programs that require login to a site, only ie will come up, not firefox.
Posted by lordbumpster (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
Default Browser
Your talking about a default browser. You can define that in Windows today. In fact when you install Opera or Firefox, it will ask you if you want to make that browser the default browser, so when you hit on a link or something firefox will come up. Thats not the issues. They are talking about when selling windows, no IE, period. Thats nuts. Opera needs to go somewhere and think about the consumer first...
Posted by irperez (59 comments )
Link Flag
Forcing Standards Compliance
Is a sure way to screw things up in very unintended ways. MS,
for those that don't remember, often develops new techniques
and tags that fall outside of the standards routine. One of these,
XMLHTTP, was introduced in IE5 and ended up being the
foundational technology for AJAX and hence all these lovely Web
2.0 applications.

Now, being forced to comply with standards doesn't necessarily
mean that one can't provide functionality outside of a standard.
However, in reality it often precludes this sort of work because
its rejected as being 'non-compliant'. While I'd like to see more
of MS' offerings be more compliant I don't like the idea of it
being enforced by rule of law.
Posted by rapier1 (2722 comments )
Reply Link Flag
EU worse than the Commies
EU companies can't compete on quality, value and service, so they have to government agencies to fight for them, just like the Commies did back in the day.

If Opera was any good, everyone would be using it. I can install it on my Windows system, why can't everyone else? It's easy. I just prefer IE7 and would never bother with something like Opera.

The EU is a bunch of whinning babies.
Posted by wango2007 (119 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Whine whine whine....Get a life.
If you don't like IE then download another browser, install it and use it.
As far as MS not following "Web Standards", so what? If they don't want to they shouldn't be forced into making IE compliant since again if you don't like it use another browser.

The EU will probably fine MS 1 million a day until they remove IE from Windows. My Take, if the EU wants to nit-pick Windows to death just don't offer it for sale there. My bet is that EU users will find a way to get Windows anyway.

To all of you that disagree, I just don't care so flame on.
Posted by fred dunn (793 comments )
Reply Link Flag
This comment makes sense.
All or nothing! You don't like the product don't buy it. I wonder what would happen if Microsoft just took all their toys home.
Posted by Ted Miller (305 comments )
Link Flag
opera
i dont know what the problem is here. i like the fact that ie comes with windows. all companies are in business to make money. yes my computer did come with ie but it didnt come with a warning not toinstall other browsers. on my laptop i have opera,firefox,netscape,safari and yes ie. one complaint about opera and firefox, they dont have a homepage format like netscape and ie. that is one place where you can go for customizable content. i dont think this should be considered lawsuit material. as far as being able to install other browsers there were initially some issues with safari but that somehow cleared up.opera was no problem at all.
Posted by markdauvid (10 comments )
Reply Link Flag
I could be wrong, if so, please someone help me.
I believe where Microsft holds the monopoly is through Microsoft Updates. Why can't we update our computers with Firefox or Opera?

Or am I wrong about this?

I believe I tried in the distant past to no avail and therefor used Internet Explorer for all the MS updates. I do this on many computers and because I do so, I find myself using Internet Explorer for all my surfing. I think Opera and Firefox both to be great and probably much better browsers, but for the reason above, I use IE 98 percent of the time.
Posted by Ted Miller (305 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Boo hoo
Someone call the cops.... Microsoft is tying one of THEIR products.............. to another one of THEIR products. If Opera wins this case, it will be just another example of the idiocracy in this type of legal department.
Posted by askmike2007 (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
EC
They're just against NON-European monopolies. I have yet to hear De Beers getting taken to court.
Posted by Jim Harmon (329 comments )
Link Flag
RE: Opera and Windows
What the hell is Opera talking about. I've been using Opera since version 4.0. All the versions work fine in Windows XP AND Vista. I have had absolutely NO problems with any of Opera's versions with either OS. Me thinks this is another scam imposed by the European Commission to bankrupt Microsft and all succesful American Companies. Lets face it, if they can't make a better product than the Americans then they will legislate American Co. out of existance. I think we should have just fought Japan in 1941 and let Hitler have Europe.
Posted by blyons41 (15 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Opera and Windows: blyons41
"What the hell is Opera talking about. I've been using Opera since version 4.0. All the versions work fine in Windows XP AND Vista. I have had absolutely NO problems with any of Opera's versions with either OS."

I liked your statement up to this point after that you stepped into a whole different fire ring.
Posted by E.D.F. (3 comments )
Link Flag
 

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