New high-definition DVDs to use old video technology?

(continued from previous page)

On another side, Apple and many other multimedia companies have put considerable weight behind AVC, the advanced standard ratified by the Moving Pictures Experts Group--MPEG--which created MPEG-2 in 1994.

Why does it matter?
The new, advanced codecs are much better than MPEG-2 at squeezing high-quality pictures into small packages. As Sony Pictures notes, they don't necessarily make a picture clearer, but they allow roughly the same picture quality to be created using only about half the digital storage space.

Sony Pictures says this help simply isn't needed in the new Blu-ray disc format. The smallest standard Blu-ray disc will have 25GB of storage space, plenty of room to hold a high-definition movie and extras, even in the old video format, Sony Pictures' Eklund said.

The studio's decision represents a setback for the advanced codecs and their backers--an even greater one if other studios such as Disney, Paramount or Universal Pictures decide to follow Sony's lead, as some industry insiders predict. And that could happen, particularly in the early days of the new DVDs, when the new codecs are unfamiliar to producers and engineers who have to create the DVD files, some analysts say. Hollywood production staff know how to make a clean DVD picture using the old technology, while the newer formats remain relatively unexplored territory.

"For the first year or so, inertia and familiarity may count more than being more efficient," said Envisioneering analyst Richard Doherty. "The professionals that do this for a living at Technicolor, Disney, Fox, Warner and so on are much more comfortable with MPEG-2."

But so far, studios remain split.

Representatives for Warner Bros. and 20th Century Fox said they were planning to use the new formats. Warner is leaning toward Microsoft's VC-1 format, while Fox is leaning towards the AVC format, the studios said.

Warner has agreed to release movies in Sony's Blu-ray format next year, and plans to use a modified disc that is actually constructed more like an old DVD and is cheaper to produce, holding about 9GB instead of the standard 25GB disc that Sony Pictures and other studios will use. Translation: That could mean cheaper prices for consumers, if the savings in manufacturing costs are passed along.

Nine gigabytes is not nearly enough space to hold a high-definition movie and extras using the old MPEG-2 format. But it will be enough space for a movie encoded with Microsoft's VC-1, or the rival AVC.

"For a lot of video, you could get the same content on media that is much cheaper to manufacture this way," said Ben Waggoner, a video technology consultant.

Warner, like other studios, has not yet put a consumer price tag on its high-definition movies, however.

Satellite TV companies Echostar and DirecTV are close to upgrading their high-definition subscribers to equipment that supports the MPEG-4 AVC codec. For the satellite companies, this will allow them to broadcast more channels in the same space they use today.

Insiders like Waggoner say they expect most of Hollywood to move to the advanced codecs over time, too, as studios adapt to the new production tools, and start putting even more high-definition content on discs to set them apart from their DVD predecessors.

But Sony Pictures made it clear that day is still a ways off.

"We're really trying to set this apart from DVD," Eklund said. "Sony Pictures' belief is that in order to launch the HD format, it should be done without compromises."

[aduljr]

its Gigabyte! not megabyte...

its Gigabyte! not megabyte...

how did the editor miss this one?

exactly

i can't imagine that how they could of screwed up that bad

[Dead Soulman]

Someone's not paying attention here.

Dear Mr/Ms Editor:
Please check your choice of words. Megabytes was written instead of Gigabytes over four times. I thought the first one was just forgiven. But, to see it appear over three times more tells me someone is slipping.
Thanks for the ad-financed article. Always informative.
Cheers.

[a473497]

A lot of this these days in internet news publications

The rush to get the article out on the internet first is resulting in a lot of information published with no regard to accuracy.
Articles published with spelling and grammar issues that would get a failing mark on grade school level English papers!
Movie descriptions by people who obviously never watched the flick!
Internet hoaxes covered like they were real news!

Megabyte? Gigabyte? What's the difference right? In a hundred years who will care whether this artile had any credibility whatsoever, and whether it's author had any pride in attention to detail or not, right?

It's funny and sad at the same time.

Look at the time it was published

"Published: November 29, 2005, 4:00 AM PST"

Still, they should correct it. It's pretty embarrassing.

[ray08]

I emailed the author on this

This needs to be corrected simply because the nontechnical people will become even more confused.

[cschow]

this error just ruins the article

Unfortunately, this type of error implies that the author is unfamiliar with the storage requirements of digital video, and tends to spoil an otherwise good article. It is surprising noone caught this error until after publication.

Hollywood sets the tech pace?

What a joke! I am SO sure that Hollywood is going to ram this down all of the tech mfg's throat. Get on board, boys, the train is leaving the station and you're not going to stop it.

25 megabytes - we're really going backward

Since the new Blu-Ray format will only have 25 MEGABYTES of space as it says in the article we are really going back to Jurassic ages here. If Mr. Eklund was a little more in touch with technology, which by the way is a fundamental part of his position in Sony Pictures, he would have noticed that the product Sony will sell actually has a storage space of 25 GIGABYTES.

[myskja-20768122239468344470015]

Sony vs MS

"We're really trying to set this apart from DVD," Eklund said. "Sony Pictures' belief is that in order to launch the HD format, it should be done without compromises."

Seriously, what Eklund is saying doesn't make any sense. With the new codec you could cram BETTER quality picture onto the discs on less space. It's better than MPGE2 which BTW has MORE to do with DVD than the MS codec.. I guess it's just a Sony vs MS thing.

[Sir Geek]

What about non MS operating Systems ?

Do you really think that if we were forced to use something like WMV ( or some other MS format encumbered with patents ) for the content on DVD's that the owners of MAC's would really appreciate it?

What about us Non-MS or Non-Apple computer owners ( I have mostly Linux based machines ) ? Should I be left out of being able to purchase new DVD's just because I don't want to have to purchase Windows license JUST to watch my legally purchased DVD on my legally purchased DVD Drive on my legally purchased computer JUST because of some format that might save a small percentage of space at the cost of interoperability ?

[boboengren]

Plastic is not fantastic anymore

Sony is loosing their edge step by step. We will not buy plastic
discs to watch HD, we will use our 24Mbit internet connections and
the new codecs.

[Michael Grogan]

You might

use your 24 Mbit connection, I won't. 24Mbit=3Mbyte. 24 Gbyte=8000x3Mbyte. That's 8000 seconds or about 130 minutes, just over 2 hours, to download the 24 gig DVD. I'll rent it from the store, thanks.

[Jon Skillings]

Story corrected

We've fixed the megabyte-gigabyte error to provide the correct storage capacities.

[rickg22]

OH c'mon this sucks!

If you want the best quality why don't you just store the freaking movies in BMP format? MPEG2 is LOSSY, and don't tell me it's not because i've seen the square artifacts in DVD movies. If those movies had been compressed to the SAME filesize, but using MPEG4, we wouldn't see those square artifacts in low-gradient scenes.

Sony, be warned: You messed up once with your rootkit. Don't mess up again with MPEG2.

[Michael Grogan]

BMP

LOL, I don't think 25 gig is enough space to store a normal flick as bitmaps let alone one in HD.

[megazone]

Each codec has issues

Artifacts on DVDs can be due to many issues. DVD is space limited to 8.7GB, but it is also bandwidth limited to about 11Mbps transfer for the entire stream - which includes the video, audio (all the tracks), subtitles, etc.

The problem isn't MPEG-2 - sure it is lossy, so are MPEG-4 and VC-1. Each codec has content they're better suited for and content they don't handle as well. Given enough space and bandwidth, MPEG-2 is perfectly fine - the new disc formats, especially Blu-ray, provide both.

[tbox]

Follow the money

I saw an MPEG-4 demo at 9Mb/s that looked like a VCR eating the tape; the rep from the largest-desktop-software-company-in-the-world wanted us to think it was great. If it's intraleave MPEG2 at 65+ Mb/s, it starts to get up there with 16mm film quality. Most DVDs (interleave - shares pixels between frames) look better than a lot of digital TV channels.

[aabcdefghij987654321]

Passing on lower manufacturing costs? Yeah right.

Translation: That could mean cheaper prices for consumers, if the savings in manufacturing costs are passed along.

The reporter should look at the manufacturing costs of an iTunes download vs. a CD. The "manufacturing" costs of iTunes on a per unit basis are negligible... yet iTunes downloads often cost as much or more than CDs.

For a more glaring example, look at Sprint's music download pricing. $2.49 a track!

Entertainment products use value-based pricing. Manufacturings costs have little to do with.

[jdmills]

Uh... not exactly

You could be right, but if you're going to reference the iTunes
music store, I have to point this out. At Borders, a new, 12 track CD
often costs 16-23 dollars. At the ITMS, you could buy the same CD
track by track for $11.88, or maybe $10 if you click "Buy Album." I
think one way that Apple is able to do this is by not having to
factor in production costs and packaging.

[Michael Grogan]

Who's gonna win?

Anybody remember the VCR wars? Sony's Betamax lost that one to VHS; not because the format was inferior but simply because it was too proprietary and Sony made garbage players with too many moving parts. Now Sony is the main backer of the also too proprietary Bluray tech. After seeing what Sony has been up to with audio cds, who wants to buy or rent movies on Sony disks of any kind? History DOES repeat itself : )

[megazone]

Reality check

Sony is the primary backer of Blu-ray, yes. But the specification is controlled by the Blu-ray Association, which includes pretty much every electronics manufacturer other than Toshiba and NEC, the primary HD-DVD backers. On top of that it includes Dell, HP, and Apple, most of the Hollywood studios, software venders, etc. BD has a much broader support than HD-DVD.

You should also check history. Betamax didn't lose to VHS because of any issues with the players, in fact, Betamax players are generally considered high quality and long lasting. And commercial Betamax systems were very successful. The problem was the proprietary issue - Sony refused to license the technology widely, while VHS was available to pretty much anyone. Betamax lost on business grounds.

If anything, BD is more like VHS and HD-DVD is more like Betamax, based on the backing each format has.

As for the rootkit fiasco - I've worked for large corporations (Lucent, GTE) and what one division is doing has little to do with what another division is doing. I think that the rootkit issue could be a good thing in the end - there has been a stuggle between Sony's electronics group and Sony's media groups. The former doesn't like strong DRM, the latter pushed for it. I think the rootkit could swing the power to the electronics people pushing for more open platforms.

[m.meister]

No choice to be made

It's not just a matter of pick your DVD player that matches the
movie format.

Why does the Average Joe need to know the difference between
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD? Seriously, this will be nothing more than
a tiny niche product until a unified format is developed. Look at
what is going on with the competing audio formats.

The fact that they're not even using the newer technology says
that this stuff isn't ready for prime-time.

These companies need to start developing stuff that HAS DIRECT
benefit. We are not just some lambs to call up to buy your new
technology because you need to make your numbers. There
needs to be value in it from our perspective as well.

[megazone]

I think HD content is the value

Personally I think that getting content in 1080i (or better 1080p), or even 720p, is the direct benefit. Plus being able to save HD content to media, more storage for data backups for PC use, more interactive content, etc.

The codec isn't a big deal, consumers don't need to care about it.

[shadowself]

Pure stupidity

and pure short sightedness.

Have these guys never heard the old english expression "Penny wise and pound foolish"?

They will save a few pennies per disk now by avoiding paying royalties on the proprietary parts of MPEG-4 AVC (aka H.264), but the rest of the "video industry" will be moving to the newer codec. The next generation DVD guys (HD DVD or Blu-ray Disk) will have to retool/convert to the new codec eventually, and the conversion will be both more difficult and more costly in the future.

Anything that depends upon transmission will move to the new codec as soon as practical. Transmission bandwidth is always limited, and will use the best, stardized codecs in order to transmit as much as possible in as small a bandiwdth as possible. As the story states this includes the satellite industry. However it also includes such other systems as video conferencing (even Apple's iChat already supports it if you have a fast enough Mac). Within the next five years the aggregate of the transmission markets will rival those of the next generation DVD market.

The developers of Blu-ray Disk and HD DVD need to not be left behind. I can understand backward compatibility, but they should press content providers to produce in the best standardized formats. It will be easy to make the change to MPEG-4 AVC at the same time as the disk change. Doing anything less is just short sighted.

[megazone]

You're way off base

First of all both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD specifications require players to support MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, and VC-1. So there will be no problem in the future.

You're pretty much entirely incorrect otherwise.

Switching codecs in the future will cost *LESS* than doing it now. Right now studios already have authoring systems that can do HD in MPEG-2, most do not have systems for MPEG-4 or VC-1. So there is no cost to use MPEG-2 today. The standard for pretty much any authoring system is that, over time, costs go down and capabilities go up. So the longer a studio can wait to upgrade to the new software, the more they'll get for their dollar.

As for transmission changing. ATSC is MPEG-2 and it is unlikely to ever change because it would obsolete all existing ATSC tuners/receivers. With the upheaval of the switch to ATSC there isn't going to be any switch to MPEG-4 in the foreseeable future. Cable is also mainly MPEG-2 and will remain so for a while because of the CableCARD mandate and the deployed base of digital cable boxes and CableCARD devices. Satellite companies will be using MPEG-4 for new HD services, but most channels will remain MPEG-2 for the foreseeable future due to the tens of millions of deployed systems.

It doesn't matter that other devices, like video conferencing, the iPod, PSP, etc, are supporting H.264/MPEG-4. That's a different market and those devices won't be handling HD content due to both screen resolution and storage requirements.

It is not easy to make the authoring transition when making the disc change. The two aren't closely related. Both entail risk, and exacerbating the risks by doing both at once would be the short sighted move. Make the physical transition to the new media first. Once that settles down and it is established, then you can make the codec transition. Doing both at once not only entails more risk, but more costs up front, which are better spread out over time.

[klaxonator]

Author's thanks on MB/GB

Thanks to everyone who pointed out the absurd oversight in the original version of the article, using megabytes when we meant gigabytes. A 25 MB disc would hold about five medium-quality MP3s. It would have to be some pretty powerful compression indeed to fit an HD movie on that disc!

[C.Schroeder]

It's the copy protection...

The only rational reason I can think of for using MPEG2 on either HD DVD or Blue-ray DVD is the movie studios just want the new copy protection technology these formats provide.

This would explain why some Hollywood studios prefer the HD DVD format, even though it is technically inferior and less future proof than Blue-ray DVD. My guess is they want to switch over to a new format as soon as possible and as cheaply as possible to once again prevent consumers from copying DVDs.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?date=2005-08-09
http://www.widescreenreview.com//news_detail.php?recid=10227

Even Bill Gates recognizes that BD+ (unique to Blue-ray) is anti-consumer:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Gates_Bluray_DRM_is_AntiConsumer/1129572265

And guess what, the latest studios that endorsed Blue-ray did so AFTER the BD+ protections were added.

[bommai]

What about keeping today's DVD with new codec

I have an alternate proposition. Drop the whole Bluray vs HD-DVD argument, at least for distributing movies. Instead focus on the hardware you have today. Plain vanilla DVD-9. Use your time to work on the MPEG4-AVC and gasp VC-1. Let the studios choose wither MPEG4-AVC or VC-1. Make sure all HighDef DVD hardware can decrypt, decode and playback both MPEG4-AVC and VC-1. Now sell this hardware to people. They can buy any movie that has the logo HighDef-DVD.
No more wrangling on Bluray vs HD-DVD. No more worrying about changing assembly lines for new manufacturing. Just new codec support in DVD player hardware and PC/Mac hardware. Same media. No assembly line change. However, DVD authors need new equipment for encoding. Bite the bullet.

That would be very expensive...

All of these codecs are encumbered by various
licensing and patent issues. So much so, that
it's becoming a significant part of the cost of
the player and the DVD.

MPEG-4 also has issues in that it's a huge spec
-- the product of industrial contributors aiming
to get their pet features and IP in rather than
something with a cohesive and well-thought-out
design.

Sony is right though, MPEG-2 might not squeeze
every bit of compression possible, but it's
pretty straight forward, it's familiar, it will
work, and the IP position on it is more
attractive.

Putting all three codecs in a player will be
prohibitively expensive. I also doubt that two
formats will be tolerated long. Since higher
capacity media in the same form-factor is
already available, it would seem that the
controversy over Blu-ray and HD-DVD is not
meaningful.

[indrakanti]

H.264 requires lot of processing power

In my experience H.264 codec requires lot of processing power. I
can play DVD (I believe MPEG-2 compressed) without any problems
on iBook G4 (POS) where as it seems to struggle to play H.264,
1264 x 720 Quicktime video. I guess things are better with
Windows computers and G5. But, H.264 does need some heavy
processing power which could get very expensive to put in every
consumer DVD player. If there is enough disk space -like in
BuleRay, just increasing the resolution and keeping the same old
compresion scheme makes more sense.

[megazone]

Thats' what Warner wants to do

Warner is pushing the BDA to add another item to the Blu-ray standard - red-laser DVD9 discs using MPEG-4 AVC or VC-1 for HD content.

As a consumer you really don't want that. 9GB is not enough for high quality full length HD video. To fit it into that space you have to use a lower resolution, like 720p instead of 1080i - and definitely not 1080p, and/or turn the compression up much higher - resulting in a lower quality image. You also drop the extras normally found on a DVD. It'd be quite a bit like the 'Superbit' DVDs that are out there, stripped of all extras, using all available space for the video with minimal compression. Most consumers opt for the normal version with the extras instead.

As a consumer you'd still need a new player since you need higher data transfer rates and a decoder that can handle the new codecs at HD resolutions (there are some DivX systems with MPEG4 support, but generally not for HD), so you may as well get a *real* HD standard and not a kludge like that.

[df561]

good though

but probably too late for that...wheels are already in motion

[megazone]

This is unsurprising

I'm not surprised Blu-ray will probably use MPEG2 for now. When you have 25GB, minimum, to play with, you don't need to jump to MPEG4 or VC-1. There will be enough teething issues with the new format, jumping to new authoring systems doesn't make a lot of sense. The authoring infrastructure that exists today revolves around MPEG2 since that's what DVD, satellite (Dish and DirecTV), ATSC, and most digital cable systems use. Some satellite is just starting to switch to MPEG4 for HDTV, but most will be MPEG2 for a while. Don't change too many variables at once if you don't have to, incriment the changes. The new codecs have their own peculiarities. Remember the first days of DVD? I do - a lot of discs had artifacts and other issues because the encoding engineers were still learning how to tweak the compression for different types of content, and the software was still evolving. HD-DVD is more likely to need the new codecs since it has less room.

In the end, for consumers, it means nothing. Both formats support all three codecs.

As for Warner's plans to cram HD onto a 9GB DVD using VC-1 - they've proposed that to the BDA, it hasn't been adopted at this time. And it makes me cringe. Even with VC-1 that's not much room, so they'll probably need to lower the resolution (720p, not 1080i, let alone 1080p) and crank up the compression.

[heystoopid]

It is so yesterday technology!

Sorry, apart from spelling mistakes, anything ex SONY, speaks of hidden rootkits, and zero customer rights , irrespective of the laws. Me, the newer and better and superior Holographic recording like the MAXELL 300 gigabyte disc with expansion to 1.6 terabyte by 2010, will get my dollar! As for any technology supplied/supported by SONY, these days!, it is last years technology and overpriced, with user restrictions and limitations added for free!!!!! SONY IS SO YESTERDAY! like the use of mpeg2, and releasing the lame duck box office dog total loser, like Charlies Angels Full Throttle as a demo disc for this technology, shows the absolute contempt and cavalier attitude towards any potential customer!!!!!

[megazone]

Switch to decaf

The Maxell holographic discs will be very, very expensive - way more than BD - and also targetted strictly at data use. Backups, etc. You're not going to see any media releases on that format in the foreseeable future. Keep in mind that the technology used in Blu-ray was commercialized several years ago as a data backup system by Sony, and has been out in Japan as a consumer product for a couple of years. It takes a long time for these things to come to market as a consumer product.

And the demo disc argument is silly - it is just for compatibility testing, the content doesn't matter that much. It seems like a good choice - lots of fast motion and action, explosions, etc, which stress codecs.

Get some perspective.

[Earl Benser]

Get real, folks.....

... the point is that movie makers will stay with the MPEG-2
codec to maintain the quality of the movies. MPEG-2 is less lossy
than MPEG-4 or H.264. Maybe most people can't see the
difference, but it IS there. ANd the MPEG-4/H.264 codec war
hasn't been exactly settled yet.

So, the MPEG-2 codec will work very nicely for HDTV - it just
needs the higher capacity DVD's - HD=DVD, Blu-Ray, or
Holographic.

In time, maybe people will recognize that MPEG-4/H.264 is
virtually as good a codec, and generates much smaller files. H.
264 might be able to put HDTV on a conventional DVD - maybe.
Still would need a new DVD player, tho.

[Chung Leong]

That's what Microsoft is banking on

The XBox 360 is capable of playing back hi-def video decoded with VC-1. With millions of devices out there, Microsoft may be able to convince some studios to go this route instead.

[blahgablagha]

Price: give it a rest already!

I"m tired about hearing of price of manufacturing Blu Ray Discs.
What are we saying?
A 25USD DVD that comes out, the manufacture costs of the disc(s)
inside is about waht 0.18 cents or so? And that with blu ray these
will jump?
lets say by 5 times. That is still under a dollar.
Any new 'manufacturing costs' we find on the new generation DVD
are not created at the manufacturing plant (IMHO)

[bcsaxman]

Sony's Scared

All this talk about MPEG2 being cost effective or having better DRM misses, I think, the most obvious point this article brings up. Namely, that Warner Bros was going to make a BluRay hybrid based on cheaper DVD manufacturing techniques. With the better compression codecs, they would be able to fit a high def movie on one of these 9GB discs. Both things drive a stake in the heart of Sony's argument regarding BluRay's superiority to HD-DVD.

We all know HD-DVD is the most cost effective of the two formats. However, BluRay champions constantly, and thus far effectively, use the greater capacity argument to offset that serious cost disadvantage. Now here comes one of your own backers with a plan that pretty much negates that assertion. I mean come on - if you can get even a 780p version of a movie on a 9GB BluRay hybrid disc, then the 15GB minium of HD-DVD is looking pretty damn good - especially for the money. 30 and 45GB discs are positively decadent! The whole house of cards Sony has built in justifying their push to make BluRay dominant just comes crashing down.

When you factor in the other issues - such as the 3-5yrs either format will need to become as popular as DVD currently is, and the extreme likelihood that some other technology (maybe holodiscs, maybe high capacity flash memory) will supplant them both in that time - then the high investment costs of BluRay look even more ridiculous than sober assesments already make them out to be. If I'm Sony, I need to find some way - any way - to end the capacity discussion in my favor and get the cats herded once and for all. Enter MPEG2.

With MPEG2 Sony has, finally, a legitimate case to make regarding capacity issues. Certainly Warner's 9GB disc plans are stopped in their tracks. And just as certainly, while HD-DVD will probably get a high def MPEG2 movie within 15GBs, it will be at a real disadvantage in terms of extras. That would be fine for a hybrid BluRay disc, but NOT for a technology that's trying to present itself as a full-fledged challenger to BluRay.

Sony is adopting MPEG2 in order to bolster it's case that HD-DVD isn't 'big enough', and that the increased costs of 'going blue' are thus worth it. With MPEG4 or H.264 alone, that argument slowly reveals itself to be a red herring. With the same codecs on an even smaller hybrid BluRay disc, it's a big honking red light for any studio's CFO (not to mention the buying public). Sooner rather than later, all those companies - and the public - would wake up and give less support to Sony's format.

Sony turning to MPEG2 is a last, desperate measure by them to keep their rhetoric in line with reality. If what this article says is true - that the studios will follow Sony's lead on this - then it may even succeed. But, all other considerations aside (which I think also favor HD-DVD in general) if this is what it takes to make BluRay a success, I'm becoming more and more convinced that HD-DVD is the better alternative.

[Yog Sothoth]

Well Said

You really got down to brass tacks and hit the nail on the head (I love these overused cliches).

I completely agree. This is the core issue of the matter.

Nice analysis

Thanks for the well written insight on the HD-DVD vs BluRay fight. BC Saxman I'm sure you must be a blogger or writer because your thoughts on the subject left me with a better understanding of the core issues then the News.com article.

Good Job!

Agreed but theres likely more to it

If you look back at the history of the current DVD format, you'll see how the various studios have balked at the idea of providing a perfect digital copy. For those of us that were enjoying DVD back in 1998, you'll recall that many studios were very reluctant to release their prized movies.

I'm convinced that Sony is more than happy to use a 11 year old codec to distribute "HD" content just because it knows full well that the picture will remain less than perfect, and basically marginally better than current DVD's upconverted.

Then when you figure that 80% of the US population hasn't even got around to fixing the default red-bloom color cast on their TV's, that almost half of them still prefer full-screen movies, and many only switched to DVD's because the video store/Wal*Mart did, means that the movie studios know the MAJORITY of consumers don't care about perfect quality anyway, hence MPEG2 becomming the easy standard. The less than perfect copy will keep the studios happy to relase movies in "HD".

The videophiles amongst us will just look on this as a joke, and that in itself could kill the whole deal, since it's the early adopters who'll decide if HD DVD's take off at all.

[megazone]

I disagree

Taiwan just put their 'FVD' format into production. It is basically a tweaked DVD system using red laser and WMV HD - aka VC-1. The dual-layer discs hold just shy of 12GB.

At that capacity they claim you can squeeze 135 minutes of 1080i HD content on the disc. Just video, no extras, etc.

Warner wants to use VC-1 to put movies on an 8.7GB DVD. I've seen that done, for example the Terminator Windows HD disc, and the results aren't pretty. First of all, forget anything but the raw movie - much like Superbit. But even then, the longer the movie is, the worse it looks. The compression has to be turned up very high to get it to fit. For some of the longer movies out there, you couldn't get them on one disc.

15GB is a bit better, but that's just a bit more than the FVD format. When you start talking about long movies (think Lord of the Rings), it is still tight.

Blu-ray's 25GB on a single layer gives more room for HD extras, interactive content, etc. The kind of thing most consumers want. If all people wanted was the movie, all DVD's would be Superbit releases. But given the choice of a Superbit release or a standard release with extras, most people buy the latter.

With home video sales dropping off, studios are looking for new hooks - so we'll see more games, extras, interactive content, etc. And that needs space.

Blu-ray also offers a superior hybrid solution with the BD layers 'over' the DVD layers, for a single sided disc. No need for HD-DVD's compromise of HD-DVD15/DVD5, or the dual-sided discs no one likes.

MPEG-2 is a better codec when there aren't space and bandwidth limits. I'd rather have a 1080i (or better, 1080p) video encoded with MPEG-2 with minimal compression over something squeezed into MPEG-4 or VC-1, especially if they have to compromise and drop it to 720p, raise the compression level, and drop all the extras.

[octogon]

THE BIG PICTURE

I disagree with your statement. Let's call it what it is. Microsoft wanted BLU-RAY to support it's codec, but in doing so, SONY would be indirectly "consenting" to HD-DVD standards. This battle is more than storage, it is a war for the next lucrative market, High Definition. There is a lot at stake, and for SONY to choose a trusty standard like MPEG2 over other compressed codecs, I perceive it as keeping something simple in the already complex world of BLU-RAY (new format, new manufacturing techniques, new media).

Also I believe this has to do with the PC and Video Gaming industries. Microsoft's XBOX360 is the latest and greatest. It is not, however, fully "Next-Gen" since it uses an OLD TECHNOLOGY known as DVD, instead of the rumored HD-DVD drives when it was first announced. So Microsoft is NOT immune to it's own hypocrisy. When SONY's Playstation3 comes out, it will be a true "Next-Gen" console, and to deliver on that promise, SONY is possible taking a shortcut. MPEG2 is an easy and familiar technology that will ease the transition for the movie studios and duplication houses. And when it comes to PCs, when these drives are available for your PC, we will gladly welcome the additional storage space, especially those who use their multimedia features on PCs. Besides, Nero and Roxio support BLU-RAY burning. SO if you need to see your video in these other formats, get you a BLU-RAY PC Drive, with either Nero 7 or Roxio 8 installed, and have at it!

Finally, I believe that BLU-RAY is the perfect marriage for HD for it has, to coin a phrase, "something old (MPEG2), something new (50GB Discs), something borrowed (DVD Backwards Compatibility), and something blue (LASER)"!