New H-1B visas still available

Employers still aren't close to snapping up the 20,000 extra H-1B visas Congress authorized for this year, a possible sign that demand for foreign tech workers is flagging.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services on Tuesday said that as of June 29, it had received 8,069 petitions for the additional guest worker visas, which are reserved for skilled foreign workers with an advanced degree from a U.S. institution.

The 20,000 visas were approved by Congress after this year's annual cap of 65,000 visas was reached as of the very first day of the federal fiscal year, Oct. 1, 2004.

H-1B visas, which allow computer programmers and other skilled foreigners to work in the United States for up to six years, have been the subject of fierce debate in the tech industry. More than 600,000 new visas have been granted since 2000, many of them to foreign tech workers; in 2003, for example, 39 percent of H-1B visas approved were for workers in computer-related occupations.

Critics say the H-1B program fuels the shift of skilled-labor positions offshore, is ripe for abuse and undermines U.S. wages.

Industry leaders argue that H-1Bs serve instead as a brake on offshoring. They also defend the visas as a means to ease skilled-labor shortages and give U.S. companies access to international talent as they compete globally.

Slack demand for the controversial visas is somewhat puzzling. Businesses had called for an exemption along the lines of the one Congress passed.

Tepid interest in the 20,000 extra visas this year could signal that tech employers either are filling their openings with U.S. workers or limiting their U.S. hiring overall--possibly thanks to a shift of work overseas.

The continued availability of H-1Bs for 2005 could weaken the argument for increasing the annual limit, which has changed over the years. Business leaders including Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates have called for an unlimited number of H-1Bs. Critics of the visa program oppose lifting the annual ceiling.

There was some confusion about how USCIS would allocate the new 20,000 visas. But the agency clarified its position in May, which is also when it began accepting applications for the additional visas.

On May 24, the agency said it had received petitions for 6,400 of the 20,000 new visas.

An extra 20,000 visas earmarked for workers with advanced degrees from U.S. institutions also will be available in future years under the new law. The H-1B program also provides exemptions to the annual cap for institutions of higher education, nonprofit research organizations and governmental research organizations.

[SteveBarry687]

Good, hire some G*#d#nm Americans

This BS line about there not being any skilled workers here in America is wearing very thin. There are plenty of qualified workers here in the US. The problem is that companies want nothing but profits. The all mighty dollar is more important than putting people to work.

Then, when there is a good position available that somebody could make some money at and support their family with the income, companies go out and hire foreigners to do the job on the cheap.

What do you get from that? You get the same outcome or worse. There are no statistics that show that foreigners do better work. They just do it for less money.

Shoot, go down to your local Wendy's and look at who is working the counter. My daughter can't even get a lousy job at a fast food restaurant, because illegal aliens have taken all the jobs.

The line about "Illegal aliens do the work that we won't." is a false statement They are now taking all of the jobs.

Down with H1B Visas!

[gami1996]

Your daughter versus an adult

I'd rather have an adult make my burgers. Who is more likely to spit in it, your rebellious teenager who lives at home or a foreign-born man or woman who is holding down two menial jobs in order to feed their children? Jobs are not a birthright--they go to the most capable at any particular price point. If there were Americans lined up to do yardwork in 90 degree heat for minimum wage, there would be little incentive for Mexican men to cross the border to look for jobs. If I can hire an Indian tech worker from the top schools (the MIT or Harvard equivalents) in India for less money than a good student from U.T. Austin (a good school in its own right, but no Harvard), I'd be an idiot to not do so. Why? Because the company I'm competing against is not in teh US. It's a firm in Japan or the UK or the Netherlands or somewhere else and they ARE hiring the *world's* best and brightest at the lowest possible cost to do their work. If I "buy American" as you seem to espouse, I'll be out of business before you know it. And then what good will I be to my American workers and American customers, and oh yeah, I guess good Ole Uncle Sam isn't going to be collecting any income taxes from my company or my employees this year. For American companies to *do the right thing* they need to adhere to the tenets of capitalism. Buy low, sell high, and redeploy the profits for further growth. Smart companies already do that. Look around you. That American car you drive is probably made with steel manufactured in China, assembled in Canada, sold in the US. That television you watch or monitor you're staring at right now has practically no American components. Those shoes you're wearing--no way they were made in America. There's no lack of American manufacturing capacity, but you're certainly not complaining about that because you like your affordable and high-quality shoes, clothes, cars, bikes, electronics, etc. Get off the backs of employers of foreign-born talent. It's no different and only those living in shacks in Montana are not contributing to the global flow of commerce. I sure wouldn't want to build my economy around Montana hill people.

[joelam888]

H1-B are all professionals

They do their jobs at work and pay taxes while getting NO benefits. Employers keep hiring them because they have good performance. If you think they get a lower wage, you must be insane because employers actually pay MORE to hire H1-Bs (attorney fees, paperworks, and wait time).

The fact: There aren't enough qualified American workers for the IT openings. Just go to a college nearby and look at the American/foreigners ratio in the computer science/engineering departments (don't even need to mention graduate schools).

[chintoo2006]

here we go again

You need to read ASAP "The World is flat, A brief history of 21st century" by Thomas L Riedman

Wake up America - this is a global economy!!!

I am an entrepreneur in Texas, spent 5 years raising money for my Tech Startup. I wanted developers, database admins (hard core techies) as well as managers. I wanted people that would help me build my dream company.

I went to the UT Austin campus to recruit the smartest techies - summer jobs included.

The average American graduate asked me for a salary that was 30% higher than what I was drawing from my company. Computer Science grads are not made in heaven and I took the next step - outsourced my work to consultants who work hard, smart and deliver, and don't need 100K jobs right out of college.

America is working to compete with a global economy, and I just cannot afford to sell a solution that is 30 times more expensive than the UK or Europe. I am seriously thinking of moving my company base out to Canada so as to create products that can compete globally.

It will be unfortunate, but unavoidable.

I see ignorance all over - see Wal-mart - they can compete because they buy the cheapest goods from all over the world, practically shutting down small American manufacturers, 65% of the people answering on this forum drive Japanese Brand cars.

Today a lot of the largest companies' revenues come from outside the US, for example Microsoft, Oracle, Yahoo are International companies, including Intel and have an onbligation to the International community to HIRE PEOPLE!!!

And yes, the people are cheaper, because I think everyone can live on $65,000 a year and not have 2 mortgages and 50K in debt in credit cards.

Wake up!!!!

[joelam888]

Your choice: H1-B or offshore

H1-Bs will sooner or later get their greencards and become US citizens. Their money will be spent on buying cars and houses, and their kids will root here in the states. In the end, the money stays in this country. If jobs are shipped offshore, they're gone forever, period.

Don't blame the H1-B because of your misfortune.

[CompEng]

Well...

I have no problem with folks that come to the U.S. to work. I work with the best, and so far I have been able to compete just fine against the best that India or China has sent my way. Most of them are good folks, which is all I can say for any group of people. And I have no problem with working with these folks, either, if Americans don't want to do the job.
The problem, as far as I have heard, with H1B's is not when the come to the U.S. and compete with us directly, but when they come over to train, and then go back to India or wherever where they can do the same work, but cheaper.
But I have been part of two design teams that were performing quite well with a limited size and budget, but which were shut down to fund an emergent site in India. They sent a bunch of H1B's back to India to form a core team, and then built a team from scratch to take on the new project there. And when they struggle, U.S. resources are piled on to help them until they succeed, so that the Indian site can claim victory and then they can start performing attrition on the U.S. sites. Is this about the best and brightest?
No, it's about cost. And the cost differential, the difference in cost of living, is all related to the concentration of poverty and of little pieces of paper. Wouldn't you be pissed if you studied for 6 years and worked for several more to be good at what you do, and you never know when it is going away because of some cost gold-rush?
And then when you look around, you see it happenning everywhere. Don't you know the infrastructure of the U.S. is what will provide the launching pad for tomorrow's innovation, and if we let it slip away, the raw resources for success won't be there. Other countries have had brilliant people beside the U.S. for millennia? Where do you tihnk our technological lead came from? It came from investing in our future, which is what globalization is poised to take away from us. I cna't imagine how anyone with half a brain could think that's a good thing.

They are not alien

They are not alien; they are just humans, professionals, hard working, friendly, ethical, educated, peace loving, helpful, respectful, respect worthy, modest, tax paying good citizens. They add immense value to the country's well being and competitiveness in all areas.

not paying the same taxes

In several posts it was mentioned that H1Bs pay taxes. That is true to some extent, but they definitely do not pay the same taxes as american citicens. For example, their income tax is about 10-15% less than for american citicens. They can also exempt the capital gains tax on stocks, options, etc because they are expected to declare these gains with their respective countries, which tend to have much lower rates than the US. An example would be hong kong which is close to zero with respect to that.

[apptec]

We have plenty of decent people in this country already

We have plenty of decent people in this country already

[MyLord]

Why would they want to come anyway?

They already have it better off where they are.

[JoeF2]

It is not just about being better off

As with any endeavor in life, everybody has a different reason to come here. For some it is the money, for others it is the lifestyle, for yet others it is because this country is where the important stuff happens. Not everybody on H1 is from thr 3rd world, anyway. I know lots of Europeans and Australians on H1. These people didn't come here for the money.

Missing a point

The article is missing a point. These extra 20,000 H1B visas have a restriction. Only a non US citizen, who has a MS or a PhD from a US university is eligible to apply for these additional H1Bs. So, somebody from another country is not eligible for these visa. He/She must have a advanced degree from a US university. That is why these havent filled up yet. It depends on how many foreign students graduated from the US universitites recently.

H1-Bs are indentured servants

...they can't threaten to quit and work somewhere else. That makes them indentured servants. Paying someone a competitive wage whose labor you own defeats the whole point. Think about it.
I've worked with several guest workers and they make well below that of American citizens. One woman from Colombia had 6 years experience as a DBA and she made 40K, without benefits, often working over 40 hours. An American would have made at least double that.
Guest worker visas were intended to bring in exceptional people (like Verener von Braun, who was the mastermind of our space program during the Cold War) or when there was a physical shortage, not a shortage at a given wage. When people like Gates talk about a shortage, what they really mean is that there is a shortage of Americans willing to work 60 hour weeks for 35 or 40K, without benefits.
The reason that the 20K additional work visas have not been quickly snapped up is that now they require guest workers to have a Master's Degree. Jobs for Americans are still diminishing.

[JoeF2]

Wrong

I guess you missed some law changes... back in the 90ies you may have had a point.
H1 transfers to another company are nowadays very easy and are done quite often.
Employers obviously don't like to tell that to their employees, and the H1 employees, not familiar with the rules of the land, often don't know.
So, instead of ******** here, why don't you tell the people you know about this?

The TRUTH about the H-1B visa

Much garbage and wishful thinking has been posted here from the pro-H-1B visa croud about the H-1B visa. No opinions are needed for this subject. Only facts are needed, based on undisputed research.

All of the following is from research done by Dr. Norm Matloff. If you disagree, you will have to argue with Dr. Matloff. And I warn you if you disagree, it will be like trying to knock down Mt. Everest with a wooden hammer if you try to challenge Dr. Matloff. He has spent the past several years extensively researching the subject. His research is FACT, not opinion.

http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Summary.pdf
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Mich.pdf

FACT: H-1B holders are paid much less than Americans. A UCLA study shows a 33% pay gap. A UC Davis study reports a 15-20% pay gap.

FACT: H-1B holders are "de facto" indentured servants. "Immigrants Support Network" and an NRC report confirms this.

FACT: H-1B visa holders are NOT the "best and the brightest".

FACT: Requirement to pay "prevailing wages" and hire only a H-1B visa when "Americans cannot be found" are not requirements after all. Employers can easily get away with circumventing the so-called "rules".

FACT: Using H-1B visas prevents offshoring. From the research:

"A report commissioned by the Information Technology Association of America (ITAA), a major industry lobbying group, found that only 104,000 American IT jobs were lost during 2000-2003 due to offshoring. By contrast, as of 2002, there were 463,000 H-1Bs (not including tens of thousands of L-1s) holding IT jobs in the U.S.39 Clearly, at least up to now, H-1B/L-1 has been a much larger problem than offshoring.
? Crucial point: Most offshoring software projects include a key ?onshore,? i.e. U.S., component,
staffed by H-1Bs/L-1s. Typically H-1Bs/L-1 comprise 20% or more of the project. So, even the
offshoring issue is an H-1B/L-1 issue; offshoring depends on the H-1B and L-1 programs for its
sccess.
? The savings accruing from offshoring are not nearly as large as perceived, and in fact are commensurate with the savings obtained by importing the H-1Bs and L-1 to work in the U.S. Though programmer salaries in India are very low, even advocates of offshoring estimate the overall cost savings for offshoring to be in the range of 15 to 40 percent.42 This is about the same range of savings accrued for work done in the U.S. by hiring H-1Bs.



Therefore, in conclusion, the H-1B visa is NOT needed, and certainly increases in the cap are NOT needed. America would do itself much good to get rid of the H-1B visa and/or greatly reduce the cap.

See the following web site and join the newsletter for more up-to-date information about the H-1B visa scam:

http://www.zazona.com

Sorry. Typo in previous post.

The following line is wrong:

FACT: Using H-1B visas prevents offshoring.

It should read:

FACT: Using H-1B visas does NOT prevent offshoring.

[joelam888]

Whatever to your fact

Discrimination exists in the country. Even American born Asian/Hispanic/African/women are paid less than average white men. What can you do about this FACT? Should we then put the blame on white men? Look at the big boys, the management, how many of them are minorities? Come on, there may be some insane employers who pay less to H1-Bs, however, they're American.

So, go blame those rich guys up top, don't blame the H1-Bs. They have been doing their job and have done nothing wrong. Anyway, they'll become US citizens sooner or later. US is an immigration country afterall, don't forget the history.

zazona.com

zazona.com is maintained by Mr. Rob Sanchez who is also a immigrant - right?
Just becoz he is settled now doesn't mean he don't want others?
Please donate and fill his account with dollars.
Good.

[JoeF2]

Matloff has done NO research

Mr. Matloff is a computer science professor. He has only cursory knowledge of the immigration law, and of H1s. All his "knowledge" is second-hand. In fact, he doesn't even get foreign students as affiliated graduate students, because of his open anti-immigrant stand.
He has admitted to me personally that all his "data"
is anecdotal. It is therefore completely unusable for any kind of "study." He does anti-immigrant politics, nothing else.

[joelam888]

Can I take your job now?

The only excuse that people can think of is lower wage or $$$. If wage the sole factor, can I e-mail Bill Gates and ask if he can hire me to be a Microsoft software engineer for 30K/yr with no benefits? Or... how about being a Google developer for free by stating that on my cover letter? Try it, if that's the only thing that matters.

I'd take advantage of that H1-B offer

I got my MS and PhD in the US.
I just have no desire to go back to
the US given the political climate.
Maybe after 2008, if you know what
I mean. At least after that silly
war is over. I liked it in the US,
but I didn't feel like I belonged
there. Death penalty, abortion
rights being threatened, too much
religion/talk of God.

I'm paid much less in Europe, and
I pay higher taxes. Yet the cost
of living is such (lower) that I
live better in Europe (maybe because
H1-Bs are paid less than citizens,
as was mentioned). So why look for
a job in CA where housing costs are
still insane or NY or OR where there
aren't many jobs. These are the only
states I'd consider living in.

H1-Bs are not the best and brightest,
just like US citizens with similar
degrees aren't. They're just hard
workers who don't give up, which
some copanies like to hire. Doesn't
mean at all that they're smart.

[joelam888]

Your choice

You probably don't know how many graduates from top tier universities (mainly business and engineering) are international students or H1-Bs. It's the loss of the US if they choose not to stay.

you're so right

Eric,
You're so right. I wonder what I am doing here in CA
where it's all about money and show it. What about the
millions of Americans who have to cram into a house to
just get by?
I am French and I feel like every day, I want to be part of
Europe, a concept that the government here does not
even respect.
Veronique (you know me!)

It's obvious why the 20 thousand H-1B are not used up ($>IQ)

These (sole remaining) H-1b's are for Masters Degree or higher only.

People with Master's Degrees or higher cost more than those with Bachelors.

It proves that the sole purpose of the H-1B program is to hire cheap labor. It isn't about capability.

Believe me it never has been.

Employers are waiting for the 65k bachelor degree H-1b's to come back, when they can save 20k/year salary on foreign workers.

Where are you getting your facts from ?

You are not the authority on H-1Bs and neither am I. There is no reason to believe that lack of skilled international students is cause of the shortfall in meeting the 20,000 mark. I am an international Master's student who will probably face this dreaded visa issue in the future and these are the facts that I think MAY contribute to this low number.

1) Most companies are not aware of the exact date when the 20,000 extra visas become available. My friend who is interviewing with high-profile companies for a non-tech, masters level job was told by many stupid HR people that they do not want to risk hiring him when the quota is so small.

2) In part because of the above fact, companies still refuse to even review resumes of Masters students if they do not have the adequate work authorization. It is understandable to a point because previously companies would go through a lot of work to hire and attempt to sponsor a student only to be told that the quota was filled by lower-wage direct-hires from abroad. I am from a highly ranked university and even the best companies that do come to campus interview Master's students and take them through several rounds but drop them like a hot potato when they realize they are on a student visa.

In a sense this 20,000 visa increase is a boon for international masters students because it will allow them to apply their higher skills and be paid accordingly, while not competing with lesser-skilled people for the quota.

And Drake, could you please explain your point keeping in mind the higher number of international students in highly skilled masters programs right from food sciences to technology ?

[JoeF2]

Flaw in argumentation

Why would the fact that these H1 visas are for graduates of US universities prove that the H1 is about "cheap labor"?
People on H1 have to be paid the same as US workers. There is no "cheap labor." These are professionals who know what they are worth and who get paid competitive wages. "Cheap labor" is a myth.

What to worry about more than H1-B

I understand the concerns of citizens and permanent residents about technology job loss. All of a sudden your way of life is being threatened in a manner which is difficult to recover from. Each side has their own arguments about pros and cons of H1-Bs but I think it is a bit too late for this argument. Over the next few years there will be a steady transition of technology jobs to India and China. What we can say is that H1-Bs contributed to this to some extent.
As for the other points being pointed out so strongly about H1-Bs I would say that most of the arguments on both sides are correct. It depends on which "H1-Bs" you interacted with. One side of H1-Bs are the companies that do hire people who are "good" and these people are paid whatever salaries they demand. The other side is the body-shopping(mainly Indian contracting companies) that bring H1-Bs in bulk to do routine programming jobs and undercut the price.
As for being "bonded laborers" that applies to any H1-B who applies for a green card. It is not the H1-B which is causing them to work at the employer's whims. It is the rules(you have to start GC again if you shift employers) and the time(about 4 years for approval) it takes to get the green card that makes them stick to the same employer and in effect be indentured.
The other thing I wanted to point out is that there are lot of jobs which are very routine and mundane and these jobs are going to go away (either offshore or to contract H1-B companies). So ask yourself if your job is one of them. You can answer it best.
Also, a lot of people who have done Masters in Comp Sci end up doing programming jobs(like writing JSPs etc) for which you dont really need a MS. Only those MS students who can contribute technologically to the company will survive. This is true in general for anybody. If you have something significant to contribute whether technologically or customer facing or whatver, you dont need to worry about job loss. If your job is mundane and routine then be prepared to say adios

[CompEng]

You know what I really hate...

is that "that ship has sailed" nonsense. Why is it too late to consider whether H1Bs make sense, or anything else? It is never too late to consider the right order for a society and work towards it.
Other than that, you made a pretty well considered post.

Not just Masters...

Its not just Masters... it should be Masters from an US university. Got it?

But u may have a point there... if the bachelors are cheaper than Masters and if they are doing the same work better (maybe becoz of experience) why do they have to go to Masters?

I beleive masters should be used for speciality Tech jobs (maybe what google, MS are doing) since they have the research knowledge. And how many jobs do u think are there out there?

If they really need masters they take masters... I saw some jobs that specifically said that ONLY Masters can apply and again 80% say only Green card - so it will never be the international masters student :)

Matter of 5 years or so...

I think in about 5 years or so we will start seeing portals which will allow customers to build custom software using a point-and-click interface.

I don't see us needing programmers at all after 10 years. Atleast not the JSP/ASP lot.

The US has always been ahead in the Tech curve. What we're seeing here right now, they (India & China) will see in a few years time.

I'm sure that most of the Tech meltdown was caused by technology itself. UnAttended Installs, Automatic Windows Updates, Object and WebService reuse, easily downloadable Open Source software libraries or even Sample Source found using Google, have all contributed heavily to ever increasing productivity.

What took a team of 7 to build or maintain, a few years ago, can now be built or maintained by 2. Very soon even those 2 won't be needed.

Lets all look ahead without fear and stop blaming one another. We're all in the same boat but we're a smart bunch.

[207796398873175208235380528963]

Information Technology: True American Agenda

This is a MUST reading for those who care about the future of American IT and our national security: http://www.alexanderbell.us/Initiative/IT.htm