Manage updates with the Download AppFebruary 16, 2006 4:00 AM PST
New DVDs already sparking copy-protection confusion
Unraveling the mystery won't be easy. Many, if not most, of today's top-of-the-line computers and monitors won't make the cut, even if next-generation Blu-ray or HD DVD drives are installed.
That's because strict content protection technologies may automatically degrade the DVDs' picture quality, or even block them from playing at all, if the right connections and digital protections aren't in place. Even the most expensive computers sold today mostly lack those features.
Acronym soup
A glossary of DVD and content-protection terms.
Indeed, the consumer backlash has already begun. Graphics-chip makers such as ATI and Nvidia are drawing criticism online for marketing products that are "ready" for these new copy-protection tools but that nevertheless lack critical features needed to let the discs play at top quality.
"This is a sticky issue," said Richard Doherty, an analyst with the Envisioneering Group. "It's going to be very confusing for consumers, and it's going to be very daunting" for computer makers.
The copy-protection muddle stems from Hollywood studios' desire to avoid the film piracy that was born when tools for unlocking the encryption technology on today's DVDs began spreading online in late 1999.
Along with a picture quality upgrade, the new generation of DVDs will be shipped with new digital rights management controls, with strict computerized rules attached saying exactly when and how a movie can be played.
For people who buy standalone DVD players and HDTVs, this mostly won't be a concern, as the right plugs will generally already be built in.
But computer buyers will face a far more challenging landscape. The everyday analog plug that connects most computers to monitors today doesn't support copy protection, and so is viewed as unsafe by Hollywood studios. Movies playing on a computer over this ordinary analog connection will likely be downgraded to near-DVD quality.
Even worse is the so-called DVI plug that sends high-quality digital signals to a monitor but also doesn't support copy protection.
That offers an even greater risk of copying in Hollywood's eyes. Studios have persuaded Microsoft to add a feature in the upcoming Vista operating system that can shut down that connection altogether, unless the computer has an Intel-created encryption technology called HDCP, or High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection, turned on to guard the signal all the way to the monitor screen.
Put another way--if the DVD doesn't like your plug, your monitor may go black.
A newer connection technology called HDMI almost always comes with built-in encryption. If both the computer and the monitor have this installed, everything should work as planned.
Simple question--will it work?
Today, it's extraordinarily difficult to find information that explains whether a company's products will be compatible with the new DVDs.
Part of the problem is that the copy protection technology for the
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copy protection, margin, computer monitor, DVD, HD-DVD
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This is going too far. I have neither the time nor the interest to connect these dots, which in all reality appears to hurt the legitimate movie-watchers just as much as it hurts the pirates (if not less so, since the pirates will ALWAYS be able to handle the code).
They can't honestly think they're accomplishing anything useful with all these ridiculous standards and restrictions, can they?
They will probably be charging an arm & leg and be wondering why the consumer isn't buying. It must be the hackers taking away their profits. Maybe they should look inhouse for the answer?
Let's put this into perspective:
"What we're coming out with is something that's probably going to last 15 years or more...HDCP, even though not well deployed today, will be well deployed in five years...we are planning for the future." (Leake,IBM)
"Even the most expensive computers sold today mostly lack (the required DRM) features."
"Many, if not most, of today's top-of-the-line computers and monitors won't make the cut, even if next generation Blu-Ray or HD DVD players are installed."
This scenario is much worse than anticipated. Blu-Ray and HD DVD ship in three months. With uncertainty and doubt surrounding HD DVD and Blu-Ray already, alienation with forms of DRM at the outset is a plan for failure.
"Even worse is the so-called DVI plug that sends high-quality digital signals to a monitor but also doesn't support copy protection."
This is not true. DVI with HDCP support has been available for some time.
HDMI and DVI are actually based on the same technology, only with HDMI adding audio support on the same cable. Many TVs have shipped with DVI connectors and HDCP support. In fact, upscaling DVD players require use of the DVI connector (or HDMI in the newer ones) for 720p or higher for the same reason that HD DVD formats do: HDCP support.
There is another problem, however. DVI and HDMI both present the issue of limited bandwidth. There have been questions raised over whether or not the next step up in resolution will even work properly on these cables. The current high for HDTV, 1080p, might just be the limit.
The article is not discussing TVs and standard players. Just before the sentence you're criticizing it says "For people who buy standalone DVD players and HDTVs, this mostly won't be a concern, as the right plugs will generally already be built in." That is good enough. The base audience is not going to understand that TV/DVD player DVI generally supports HDCP, but video card/LCD monitor DVI does not, but some earlier TVs with DVI sometimes dont' have HDCP support, but some LCD monitors do, but...
The essential point is there. DVI with HDCP is a crapshoot. HDMI essentially always supports HDCP. K.I.S.S., even in journalism.
Read the link to FiringSquad embedded in this article:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/" target="_newWindow">http://firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/</a>
HDCP support for DVI is available in specification only but not in practice. No actual computer devices support the HDCP. So, while the DVI-spec *can* support HDCP, none of the computer devices on the market today actually do.
No videocards. No monitors. No computers. Not a single one.
No total HDCP capable solution. 10 LCDs (only), no PCs or Videocards. No complete package.
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/" target="_newWindow">http://firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/</a>
So for the most part, this technology might be around for another 15 years, and I may never even see it. Does Linux have DRM? Can't someone with Linux just make a program that can rip the video regardless of any protection?
This is all just a waste of time for these companies. It's just stupid...
There doesn't have to be anything wrong with original dvds in order to replace them. original dvds came out before high def sets, and now high def displays are more common, so we need a different format to make the new displays show what they are fully capable of.
You are way off base with the linux comments. DVDs couldn't even be played on linux OSs until the CSS encryption was broken. The new DRM is very sturdy compared to the old CSS and macrovision stuff. I'm not saying it won't ever be cracked, but it could certainly take a while.
I have a smaller collection of CDs. I will probably be able to play them many years from now.
I have a few DVDs. I might be able to play them ten or twenty years from now (and will have to watch the same ads before I can access content).
You see where it's going. There is no sense in collecting stuff in the newer formats. They age too fast. With the new "content protected" schemes there is absolutely no sense in trying to build a collection. Already you would have to work hard to know if your equipment would support the discs you buy, and you can be quite certain that when you would eventually have to replace your equipment you would have absolutely no way to make sure it would support everything in your existing collection.
and in a few years, will these formats be supported? they say they will, but you know these people. You would be able to play those things in the future. Newer equipment would be backward-compatible in 10 or 20 years. But you can be quite certain this "backwards-compatibility" would eventually mean you would be able to access the content at a lower quality, just like today they promise it would be if they are "not satisfied" with the way your own equipment restricts you. So why collect "higher quality" items if you know it would not stay "higher quality" in the future?
The good thing here is that this can drive consumers (at least serious ones that pay and collect) to other independent sources. And if you absolutely have to have something in your collection - find an unprotected pirated copy that you can be sure would work in the future!
Not all DVD players force you to sit through the ads. Some ignore the commands that disable certain control functions. Here's one:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.time.com/time/gadget/20041110/" target="_newWindow">http://www.time.com/time/gadget/20041110/</a>
I wish consumers would start buying these aggressively, thus sending a msg to the hardware mfg's to get out of bed with the studios. Heck, this attitude could even transfer over to copy-protection. :-)
mark d.
They are going to dictate what I can and what I cannot watch? Are we kidding? Of course they can set any kind of rules for the products they want to sell but I am also free not to buy them. i canhappily live without buying any DVD for as long as I want; movies companies could not survive three months without sales. As for the objection that the majority of the people will not be affected because they play DVDs on stand-alone players just check the increase in the sales of "MediaCenter" based PCs to verify as more and more people are moving toward a new way to handle their media products.
What is most ironic is that Microsoft and Intel have been pushing people to the concept of "Digital lifestyle" etc. for years and now, under the pressure of dumb and shortsighted companies and the best politicians their money can "enroll", are going to kill an un-born, potentially huge market. Shareholders wake-up!
As to the pirates? Pirates will simply get a RGB encoder, cost about $1200 or so, and, if necessary, a macrovision filter and continue to steal. And in countries which do not respect copyright, various devices to subvert the copy protection technology will quickly show up.
Maybe the studios just don't want HD DVD's to be playable on computers. They certainly seem to be headed that way.
...with over 1000 DVD's in retail packaging, 2 x 32" lcd tv's, an upscaling dvd player with hdtv tuner, and a 5.1 surround sound system i have finally reached what i consider the end of my love affair with hollywood.
i am not a pirate, but i swear to the greedy film industry that if my current setup can not play hddvd's with the simple purchase of an hddvd player, then my love of film ends here.
enjoy the memory of having loyal fans hollywood, because i think this is the last time you will ever see them again.
ps... intel and microsoft... shame on you.
Anyway, how stupid, very stupid is the Industry, don't they know it's hardly a matter of a month or so and the code will be cracked and sent all over the globe. Naturally they'll make laws too, and well, they're a laughing stock!!!
Really do not worry at all!!!!!! Patience.
Sony had found the "ultimate code" and got it screwed up!!! With the right tools one can copy any Sony protected DVDs and music CDs, and it plays beautifully.
My father used to work in a prison. He said: You make the rules & safety tighter, the prisoner has got time and skill and always ends up one notch ahead!!! See!!!
And don't be silly folks, let the stupid ones pay for the test, in six to nine months time it'll be all over.
Scoobeeedoooo-bedooooo!!!! or shalala!!! if you like it better!!!
Just avoid buying PCs with the DRM cripppled 'VIIV' chipset from Intel, and with an appropriate 'patch' and you should be fine.
For the industry, is literally, trying to force the cosumer, to spend an average of $20K plus in expensive total equipment upgrades
And then in addition, there is the $100k plus to replace existing library stock dvd's!(old stock reissued in new formats)
In the interim, the industry, will consider ways to kill all fair use, and seek to enforce some kind of annual license fee or pay per view to rent the product only(triples the annual corporate profits)
Choices, to be led by the nose, needlessly spend $$$$, or wait until the smoke and mirrors used here are removed!
Choices, don't you love them!
HD is no substitute for a good plot.
Not a pirate or poster, just a user.
an editor to improve video quality is the first dumbest.
IF you can put the image on the monitor, you can record that same
data flow, then run it thru the appropriate compressor to get the
final version. That's how DVD's are ripped to .avi format. Works
great.
Windos Vista? Intel encryption? Does this mena I have to buy an Intel chip and run vista on it to run a DVD? What happens if I want a Linux machine with an AMD cheap (or a Mac?). This is yet more vendor lock in designed to punish consumers.
And I like the way they are restricting the rights of people who are legitimaly buying the DVDs, are they really trying to decrease Piracy, it looks lioke there providing more incentive to pirate stuff, a pirate version may actually play on my PC.
It will be broken sooner or later, If a peice of hardware/software can decrypt it to display it then a piece of hardware/software can be designed to decrypt it to capture the data off it.
- HD CableCARD TiVo
- Blu-ray
Both are coming out this year, so I'm already shopping around for an HD set.
I've been following Blu-ray and HD-DVD since they were just 'next generation optical media' and didn't have spiffy names, and I'm well versed in HDCP, HDMI, et al. I, and a number of people I know, just don't care. I plan to buy a PS3, which automatically puts Blu-ray in my home. I'll probably buy a BD recorder/burner at some point too.
But for the average consumer, they'll never notice since most people don't use their PCs - even Media Center PCs. The other issue that everyone seems to be ignoring is that the discs *MAY* be restricted. It is up to the publisher. The standards *allow* them to restrict playback, but it is their *choice*. So all those ranting about the standards forcing this, etc, are idiots. If a disc required HDCP and won't play on your DVI monitor, or it is down-rezzed on your component connections, that's because the publisher selected those rules. There is no reason that BD, or HD-DVD, cannot play at full resolution on any output! (Modulo the connection handling it - such as some HDMI connections only going to 1080i and not handling 1080p.) The choice is in the publishers hands, the standards just give them options.
And, as the article said, publishers may start out with lax rules to prevent the kind of backlash seen here, and down the road, as more and more users have modern systems, start making new releases tighter.
AACS actually supports more flexibility for consumers than CSS did for DVD, with managed copy.
I accept DRM as a fact of life and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I buy music from iTunes, and I used to strip the DRM with JHymn just because I could - until iTunes6. And if that is patched, I probably will again. I also strip the DRM off my TiVoToGo files to use them on other devices. I'm sure, eventually, some hack will be found for AACS, but until then I can live with it as is. I own over 1,000 DVDs and I've never felt the need to rip any of them.
>high-quality digital signals to a monitor but also
>doesn't support copy protection.
>
>That offers an even greater risk of copying in
>Hollywood's eyes.
Why? How? Do DVI "tuner" or capture cards even exist? I'm pretty sure tht if they were at Best Buy or other popular retailers that I'd have one. I don't get the paranoia. If us customers, uh sorry, I mean pirates don't have the tools available to copy by DVI, then where does this fear come from?
At least I haven't made any high-end hardware purchases recently that are effectively voided by this situation. And I ain't gonna buy any graphics cards or LCD monitors or other related items until this situation is cleared up. How long will that take? Will there be drivers for Linux? (I'd be very happy with closed-source Linux drivers ala NVidia's regular graphics drivers are today, I'm not an OSS fundamentalist I just want things to work)
New laws are either in play or about to be that makes video capture in high definition a big no - but if you search the net you'll find quite a few.
Whether they have dvi input I can't say, most are geared towards capturing HD signals from cable or satellite, which still use coax to connect to traditional HD tuner boxers, which in turn use DVI to connect to your TV.
I suspect, however, that quite a few do have DVI inputs, so which the appropriate anti-macrovision software installed capturing HD movies would be possible.
What the movie studios should do is try to maintain their existing margin rather than trying to increase it and get more sales growth at the same time.
The EBIT margins of movie studios have doubled since the introduction of DVD. Now they are getting too greedy which will in-turn hurt them because their greed will fuel more piracy.
Look at the financial woes of Sony! They put themselves in that position by being too anal. Now the movie industry is following Sony's philosophy and they are going to get hurt too because as you can see from every poster here....no-one will bother buying BD or HDDVD.
In the ideal world for corporate america every product they sell would die conveniently after so long freeing the consumer to ..well consume again! I don't believe like some conspiracy nuts do that the hardware manufacturers are in collusion to do such a nefarious thing, no instead their actions are guided by one thing the hunt for that all might dollar and ever rising profits.
After all corporations be definition require increasing profits to look good in the eye of the investor, stable profits in a publicly traded company are almost as unpaletable as no profits. So corporations are compelled to reinvent the wheel, compelled to sell what their customers don't need but say that they do, compelled to change "tiny" things from model to model to provide the illusion of advance to compel consumers to buy more.
There is a reason that software companies are falling all over themselves in an effort to switch from shrink wrapped to services based software. Why is MS offering Office "live" ?? Because by selling access to office over and over again, they can make far more money for far longer period of time than if they continue to constant, feature bloat, point upgrade, force users to buy, software cycle we've been dealing with for 20 years. With software as a service they have the ultimate ability to charge us per hour, per document or even per character if they wanted. You may think being charged per character for writing a word doc. is outlandish now, but then if I told you 20 years ago that there would come a day when you couldn't make personal copies of videos that I've purchased for your own private use use, or told you that one day for each computer you have in your home (living room, kids room, office..etc.) You'd have to buy a separate physical copy of a desired windows OS...you would have laughed at me then, but those restrictions are reality today.
Getting back to the restrictions on HD playback, it's the same game all over, the restrictions secure (albiet temporarily) a profit sector fo the companies. They look at these sectors not because they are having hard times now (they aren't) it's simply because they must continue to have growth to be successful...and this gets us into a philosophical debate over how capitalism works. How can an entity that requires endless growth compete fairly in a market with limited resources??? Short answer, look at evolution and competing species (the model for the free market mind you) the answer is, it can't.
I refuse to buy a computer that has built-in DRM. If that means that I can't buy the parts needed to build a new system in the future, so be it. It's my hobby, not my living.
I will not buy Vista; XP works just fine for what I do with my computers. It's not like the switch from 98 (which crashed on me twice a day) to XP (which is stable on my machines.) I'll just make sure that I have all of the updates current and archived when Microsoft decides to stop supporting the OS.
I will not buy a software format that restricts my Fair Use rights. Nothing's come out of the film industry in the past few years that I will miss owning, anyway; what I want to collect is already released -- I can get it on a compatible disc now. The same goes for the music industry -- 99.999% of the current product is dreck; I haven't been the target demographic for 10-15 years. The last CD I bought was about six years ago, and THAT was a compilation CD of '70's music. What I want to own I pretty much DO own. And what passes for entertainment on American television -- no thanks. The last thing I saw that I enjoyed was Doctor Who 2005, and I had to BitTorrent that.
Don't get me wrong, though. I LIKE new toys. I bought my first computer in 1981 and have owned at least one ever since. I was the first on in my circle of friends to buy a VCR and the only one to get into laserdisc; I've always owned a nice TV and sound system. However, it's always been on MY terms -- what I buy, I own, and I do with it what I want. If the powers-that-be who run the entertainment industry have decided in their infinite wisdom that I'm not a valued source of income, I'M not hurt by it, they are. I have music, movies, books, video files and games to last me for a long while, so they can go scratch as far as I'm concerned.
This show starts running here in the US on SCI-FI Channel in March. As to DVD Copies, BBC Video USA has announced the Region 1 Release (it was already Region 2 released in the UK last year) as of 4July2006 (it was due to release this February but it was pushed back when Sci-fi Channel picked up the show to give them the needed 13 Weeks to air it first).