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discs hasn't been officially announced, even though the new DVDs are supposed to hit shelves in just three months. A cross-industry group is working on a technology called the Advanced Access Content System, slated to protect both HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs, and is expected to release its work as soon as next week.
The HDCP technology has widely been expected to be a critical part of those rules, however. In an unusual step, Microsoft told computer makers last year, as part of a preview of its new Vista operating system, that they should start using the Intel-based technology in order to be ready for the high-definition video rules.
IBM engineer Don Leake, who works with the AACS group, confirmed Wednesday that Intel's HDCP would be approved under the new rights-management rules.
But this opens up a new set of potential land mines for consumers.
In one early example, graphics-card maker ATI has marketed some of its top products as "HDCP ready" and says that its newest "All-in-Wonder X1900" card "gives effortless playback of next-generation HD DVD."
However, it doesn't mention that "ready" probably won't be good enough to make the high-definition discs play at full quality. The graphics systems actually have to have the Intel technology turned on, which has to be done by the computer maker, or by ATI itself when it sells a graphics card at retail.
Nvidia, another big graphics-chip maker, says it too has built support for HDCP into its chip designs but that it's up to the computer makers to turn it on. Almost nobody has so far, and that's drawing bitter criticism from gamers and other hardware enthusiasts online, who call the situation a "nightmare."
"We certainly are concerned over end users, and we want to make sure there is no confusion," said Godfrey Cheng, ATI's director of marketing. "But we leave it in the hands of the board vendors and (computer makers) as to whether they want to put that in."
Much of what happens when discs are finally put into computer will ultimately depend on the movie studios themselves. On each disc, it's up to them to set the rules that make all of these alphabet-soup technologies swing into action.
For example, if studios are worried that consumers might be disappointed by degraded resolutions and blacked-out monitors, they could in theory relax those rules until the approved technologies are more widespread.
Backers of the new content protection tools say they're necessary to keep the high-definition discs at the cutting edge for years to come, however.
"What we're coming out with is something that's probably going to live for 15 years or more," IBM's Leake said. "HDCP, even though not well deployed today, will be well deployed in five years. We are planning for the future."
See more CNET content tagged:
copy protection, margin, computer monitor, DVD, HD-DVD
This is going too far. I have neither the time nor the interest to connect these dots, which in all reality appears to hurt the legitimate movie-watchers just as much as it hurts the pirates (if not less so, since the pirates will ALWAYS be able to handle the code).
They can't honestly think they're accomplishing anything useful with all these ridiculous standards and restrictions, can they?
They will probably be charging an arm & leg and be wondering why the consumer isn't buying. It must be the hackers taking away their profits. Maybe they should look inhouse for the answer?
Let's put this into perspective:
"What we're coming out with is something that's probably going to last 15 years or more...HDCP, even though not well deployed today, will be well deployed in five years...we are planning for the future." (Leake,IBM)
"Even the most expensive computers sold today mostly lack (the required DRM) features."
"Many, if not most, of today's top-of-the-line computers and monitors won't make the cut, even if next generation Blu-Ray or HD DVD players are installed."
This scenario is much worse than anticipated. Blu-Ray and HD DVD ship in three months. With uncertainty and doubt surrounding HD DVD and Blu-Ray already, alienation with forms of DRM at the outset is a plan for failure.
"Even worse is the so-called DVI plug that sends high-quality digital signals to a monitor but also doesn't support copy protection."
This is not true. DVI with HDCP support has been available for some time.
HDMI and DVI are actually based on the same technology, only with HDMI adding audio support on the same cable. Many TVs have shipped with DVI connectors and HDCP support. In fact, upscaling DVD players require use of the DVI connector (or HDMI in the newer ones) for 720p or higher for the same reason that HD DVD formats do: HDCP support.
There is another problem, however. DVI and HDMI both present the issue of limited bandwidth. There have been questions raised over whether or not the next step up in resolution will even work properly on these cables. The current high for HDTV, 1080p, might just be the limit.
The article is not discussing TVs and standard players. Just before the sentence you're criticizing it says "For people who buy standalone DVD players and HDTVs, this mostly won't be a concern, as the right plugs will generally already be built in." That is good enough. The base audience is not going to understand that TV/DVD player DVI generally supports HDCP, but video card/LCD monitor DVI does not, but some earlier TVs with DVI sometimes dont' have HDCP support, but some LCD monitors do, but...
The essential point is there. DVI with HDCP is a crapshoot. HDMI essentially always supports HDCP. K.I.S.S., even in journalism.
Read the link to FiringSquad embedded in this article:
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/
HDCP support for DVI is available in specification only but not in practice. No actual computer devices support the HDCP. So, while the DVI-spec *can* support HDCP, none of the computer devices on the market today actually do.
No videocards. No monitors. No computers. Not a single one.
No total HDCP capable solution. 10 LCDs (only), no PCs or Videocards. No complete package.
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/
So for the most part, this technology might be around for another 15 years, and I may never even see it. Does Linux have DRM? Can't someone with Linux just make a program that can rip the video regardless of any protection?
This is all just a waste of time for these companies. It's just stupid...
There doesn't have to be anything wrong with original dvds in order to replace them. original dvds came out before high def sets, and now high def displays are more common, so we need a different format to make the new displays show what they are fully capable of.
You are way off base with the linux comments. DVDs couldn't even be played on linux OSs until the CSS encryption was broken. The new DRM is very sturdy compared to the old CSS and macrovision stuff. I'm not saying it won't ever be cracked, but it could certainly take a while.
I have a smaller collection of CDs. I will probably be able to play them many years from now.
I have a few DVDs. I might be able to play them ten or twenty years from now (and will have to watch the same ads before I can access content).
You see where it's going. There is no sense in collecting stuff in the newer formats. They age too fast. With the new "content protected" schemes there is absolutely no sense in trying to build a collection. Already you would have to work hard to know if your equipment would support the discs you buy, and you can be quite certain that when you would eventually have to replace your equipment you would have absolutely no way to make sure it would support everything in your existing collection.
and in a few years, will these formats be supported? they say they will, but you know these people. You would be able to play those things in the future. Newer equipment would be backward-compatible in 10 or 20 years. But you can be quite certain this "backwards-compatibility" would eventually mean you would be able to access the content at a lower quality, just like today they promise it would be if they are "not satisfied" with the way your own equipment restricts you. So why collect "higher quality" items if you know it would not stay "higher quality" in the future?
The good thing here is that this can drive consumers (at least serious ones that pay and collect) to other independent sources. And if you absolutely have to have something in your collection - find an unprotected pirated copy that you can be sure would work in the future!
Not all DVD players force you to sit through the ads. Some ignore the commands that disable certain control functions. Here's one:
http://www.time.com/time/gadget/20041110/
I wish consumers would start buying these aggressively, thus sending a msg to the hardware mfg's to get out of bed with the studios. Heck, this attitude could even transfer over to copy-protection. :-)
mark d.
They are going to dictate what I can and what I cannot watch? Are we kidding? Of course they can set any kind of rules for the products they want to sell but I am also free not to buy them. i canhappily live without buying any DVD for as long as I want; movies companies could not survive three months without sales. As for the objection that the majority of the people will not be affected because they play DVDs on stand-alone players just check the increase in the sales of "MediaCenter" based PCs to verify as more and more people are moving toward a new way to handle their media products.
What is most ironic is that Microsoft and Intel have been pushing people to the concept of "Digital lifestyle" etc. for years and now, under the pressure of dumb and shortsighted companies and the best politicians their money can "enroll", are going to kill an un-born, potentially huge market. Shareholders wake-up!
As to the pirates? Pirates will simply get a RGB encoder, cost about $1200 or so, and, if necessary, a macrovision filter and continue to steal. And in countries which do not respect copyright, various devices to subvert the copy protection technology will quickly show up.
Maybe the studios just don't want HD DVD's to be playable on computers. They certainly seem to be headed that way.
...with over 1000 DVD's in retail packaging, 2 x 32" lcd tv's, an upscaling dvd player with hdtv tuner, and a 5.1 surround sound system i have finally reached what i consider the end of my love affair with hollywood.
i am not a pirate, but i swear to the greedy film industry that if my current setup can not play hddvd's with the simple purchase of an hddvd player, then my love of film ends here.
enjoy the memory of having loyal fans hollywood, because i think this is the last time you will ever see them again.
ps... intel and microsoft... shame on you.
Anyway, how stupid, very stupid is the Industry, don't they know it's hardly a matter of a month or so and the code will be cracked and sent all over the globe. Naturally they'll make laws too, and well, they're a laughing stock!!!
Really do not worry at all!!!!!! Patience.
Sony had found the "ultimate code" and got it screwed up!!! With the right tools one can copy any Sony protected DVDs and music CDs, and it plays beautifully.
My father used to work in a prison. He said: You make the rules & safety tighter, the prisoner has got time and skill and always ends up one notch ahead!!! See!!!
And don't be silly folks, let the stupid ones pay for the test, in six to nine months time it'll be all over.
Scoobeeedoooo-bedooooo!!!! or shalala!!! if you like it better!!!
Just avoid buying PCs with the DRM cripppled 'VIIV' chipset from Intel, and with an appropriate 'patch' and you should be fine.
For the industry, is literally, trying to force the cosumer, to spend an average of $20K plus in expensive total equipment upgrades
And then in addition, there is the $100k plus to replace existing library stock dvd's!(old stock reissued in new formats)
In the interim, the industry, will consider ways to kill all fair use, and seek to enforce some kind of annual license fee or pay per view to rent the product only(triples the annual corporate profits)
Choices, to be led by the nose, needlessly spend $$$$, or wait until the smoke and mirrors used here are removed!
Choices, don't you love them!
HD is no substitute for a good plot.
Not a pirate or poster, just a user.
an editor to improve video quality is the first dumbest.
IF you can put the image on the monitor, you can record that same
data flow, then run it thru the appropriate compressor to get the
final version. That's how DVD's are ripped to .avi format. Works
great.
Windos Vista? Intel encryption? Does this mena I have to buy an Intel chip and run vista on it to run a DVD? What happens if I want a Linux machine with an AMD cheap (or a Mac?). This is yet more vendor lock in designed to punish consumers.
And I like the way they are restricting the rights of people who are legitimaly buying the DVDs, are they really trying to decrease Piracy, it looks lioke there providing more incentive to pirate stuff, a pirate version may actually play on my PC.
It will be broken sooner or later, If a peice of hardware/software can decrypt it to display it then a piece of hardware/software can be designed to decrypt it to capture the data off it.
- only problem i see
- by techguy83 February 16, 2006 1:25 PM PST
- Maybe I am not giving everyone a fair shake, but I fully expect that Sony's PS3 sales will be used to boost blue ray into popular contention as several hardcore gamers and parents will buy this product to have it and to play nextgen games on it. I also expect that several people will buy the new gear heedless of the ramifications. So, all this talk is well and good, but dont expect too much fro joe schmoe who doesn't care/ doesn't want to care.
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- Exactly
- by megazone February 16, 2006 4:54 PM PST
- The vast majority of consumers will not balk. If you've seen the image from Blu-ray on a good HD set, it is absolutely stunning and far, far better than even progressive DVD. I've been holding off buying an HDTV set for two things:
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- Blu-ray
Both are coming out this year, so I'm already shopping around for an HD set.
I've been following Blu-ray and HD-DVD since they were just 'next generation optical media' and didn't have spiffy names, and I'm well versed in HDCP, HDMI, et al. I, and a number of people I know, just don't care. I plan to buy a PS3, which automatically puts Blu-ray in my home. I'll probably buy a BD recorder/burner at some point too.
But for the average consumer, they'll never notice since most people don't use their PCs - even Media Center PCs. The other issue that everyone seems to be ignoring is that the discs *MAY* be restricted. It is up to the publisher. The standards *allow* them to restrict playback, but it is their *choice*. So all those ranting about the standards forcing this, etc, are idiots. If a disc required HDCP and won't play on your DVI monitor, or it is down-rezzed on your component connections, that's because the publisher selected those rules. There is no reason that BD, or HD-DVD, cannot play at full resolution on any output! (Modulo the connection handling it - such as some HDMI connections only going to 1080i and not handling 1080p.) The choice is in the publishers hands, the standards just give them options.
And, as the article said, publishers may start out with lax rules to prevent the kind of backlash seen here, and down the road, as more and more users have modern systems, start making new releases tighter.
AACS actually supports more flexibility for consumers than CSS did for DVD, with managed copy.
I accept DRM as a fact of life and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I buy music from iTunes, and I used to strip the DRM with JHymn just because I could - until iTunes6. And if that is patched, I probably will again. I also strip the DRM off my TiVoToGo files to use them on other devices. I'm sure, eventually, some hack will be found for AACS, but until then I can live with it as is. I own over 1,000 DVDs and I've never felt the need to rip any of them.