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February 27, 2007 4:25 PM PST

Music executives judge Jobs, lament losses

  • 91 comments
NEW YORK--The discussions at a music conference here Tuesday started with an all-around bashing of Apple CEO Steve Jobs before moving to the plethora of issues plaguing the music industry.

Apple, digital rights management (DRM) and the public's willingness to pirate music were discussed, debated and lamented once more by attendees of the Digital Music Forum East conference.

"We're running out of time," Ted Cohen, managing director of music consulting firm TAG Strategic, told the roughly 200 attendees. "We need to get money flowing from consumers and get them used to paying for music again."

The call to arms by Cohen, who was moderating a panel discussion titled "The State of the Digital Union," comes as the music industry suffers through one of the worst slumps in its history.

CD sales fell 23 percent worldwide between 2000 and 2006. Legal sales of digital songs aren't making up the difference either. Last year saw a 131 percent jump in digital sales, but overall the industry still saw about a 4 percent decline in revenue.

That has the industry pointing fingers at a number of things they believe caused the decline.

At the opening of the conference, some of the panel members lashed out at Jobs. Members said Jobs' call three weeks ago for DRM-free music was "insincere" and a "red herring."

"Imagine a world where every online store sells DRM-free music encoded in open licensable formats," Jobs wrote in a letter that rocked the music industry. "In such a world, any player can play music purchased from any store, and any store can sell music which is playable on all players. This is clearly the best alternative for consumers, and Apple would embrace it in a heartbeat."

Jobs' position was perceived by many in the music industry as a 180-degree shift in direction. The view expressed at the conference is that Apple has maintained a stranglehold on the digital music industry by locking up iTunes music with DRM.

Cohen told the audience that if Jobs was really sincere about doing away with DRM, he would soon release movies from Disney--the studio Jobs holds a major stake in--without any software protection. An Apple representative declined to comment on Tuesday on remarks made by the panel.

Panel member Mike Bebel, CEO of Ruckus music service, said: "Look, I don't think anybody is necessarily down on Apple. The problem is the proprietary implementation of technology...and it's causing everybody else who is participating in the marketplace--the other service providers, the labels, the users--a lot of pain. If they could simply open it up, everybody would love them."

The role of DRM
Panel members--who included Thomas Gewecke, Sony BMG senior vice president, and Gabriel Levy, general manager of RealNetworks Europe--were divided about what the music industry should do about DRM in general.

Most of the panel members, save for Greg Scholl, CEO of independent music label The Orchard, believe that some form of DRM is necessary.

Scholl said flatly that DRM doesn't work. "The idea that DRM gives us choice isn't right," he said.

"The economics of the business are over for good and aren't ever going to be the way they were before," Scholl said. This is a position that some in the music industry are starting to warm up to.

In January, EMI said it was reviewing a request by the Electronic Frontier Foundation to allow reverse engineering of its digital rights management software. That EMI would even consider the proposal was seen in many circles as a step forward by the anti-DRM camp.

Gewecke also defended record labels against the criticism that the music industry has its head in the sand and just doesn't understand the Digital Age. He said that Sony BMG is working with technologists and retailers, and is constantly is looking for technological solutions to some of the industry's problems.

He also said that despite all the bad news, there's plenty for the sector to be encouraged about.

"We routinely talk to companies about what's different," Gewecke said. "We're constantly looking for where value is being created in a business model. We are being flexible. There's still an evolution that has to happen. I say it's an optimistic time considering there's more music being listened to now than ever before. There's more opportunities to monetize the music. We want to be out there looking for new ideas and companies."

See more CNET content tagged:
music industry, digital-rights management, Steve Jobs, conference, EMI Group Plc.

Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 3 pages (91 Comments)
inept music mogles
by smithjones February 27, 2007 5:39 PM PST
These music idiots have totally lost it. They remind me of the
robber barrons of the early 19th centry. How can we stick it to the
consumer, and everyone else that listens to music. And they
wonder why people pirate music. Hey Dipstick music guys... move
ahead with the inevitable.., music free of DRM, or be left in the
scrap heap of history with the 45's 33's and 8 tracks. Get a clue.
Reply to this comment
inept music moguls
by smithjones February 27, 2007 5:40 PM PST
These music idiots have totally lost it. They remind me of the
robber barrons of the early 19th centry. How can we stick it to the
consumer, and everyone else that listens to music. And they
wonder why people pirate music. Hey Dipstick music guys... move
ahead with the inevitable.., music free of DRM, or be left in the
scrap heap of history with the 45's 33's and 8 tracks. Get a clue.
Reply to this comment
Spoiled children
by MichaGato March 1, 2007 4:37 AM PST
... are what they are.

They know waht they want, which is to squeeze the consumer off every possible cent, keeping him buying the same music over and over if he cares to listen to it, pay the artists in peanuts if they can get away with it, and go riding around in big limos surrounded by teenage wannabees.

What they don't know is how to make that happen anymore...
The problem is the music.
by leriksen71 February 27, 2007 6:08 PM PST
The problem is the music.
Reply to this comment
Music from the big companies turned me off
by bradyme February 27, 2007 6:09 PM PST
I hate it all. MTV, VH1, Radio, & commercial music sites. You turned me off 100% You try to taunt me with bands of some new flavor every friken fall, and I know your going to make sure it's not even available to listen to it.

I am just turned off by all of them. I'm sticking to old favorites, and looking on indie labels & online indie online stations, because I'm really sick of you guys being spoilers.

Bah!
Reply to this comment
Don't blame Jobs or DRM...it's the Music!!!
by poma3 February 27, 2007 6:17 PM PST
As a tech saavy 41 year old I buy all my music via iTunes and I DO
NOT steal music from other sources. The reason I don't buy more
music has nothing to do with DRM or Steve Jobs...it's the lack of
original and entertaining music. In a world of homogenized emo/
alt/boy bands and girl acts (a'la Gwen, Jojo, Fergie, Avril, etc) that
are hardly discernable from one another it's hard to get invested in
the music scene. Find something good and original and the
consumer will follow.
Reply to this comment
Word Too Big - Discernable
by Im-Not-TED February 28, 2007 7:33 AM PST
Thanks for typing the reply I was crafting as I read the article. Unfortunately you probably lost most of the people who care about the music industry by using the word "discernable". I suspect that the executives, ha that?s a joke, of the music companies these days do not understand many words with more than two syllables.
View reply
What???
by SteenMachine February 27, 2007 6:18 PM PST
Blame Apple for the music industry woes? Are they on crack?! Apple, and it could've been any company, made a (lucrative) business model to curb plummeting music sales and rampant piracy using a flexible DRM, and they are getting bashed?

Why don't they blame the technology for the compact disc? If we were still using cassette tapes or 8-tracks, this would be fine, right?

These guys are ridiculous.
Reply to this comment
Today's music sucks for the most part
by js33 February 27, 2007 6:23 PM PST
The problem is as has been said the music. The corporation forgot that a large part of their market is the baby boomers, I being one myself, and I am not aware of too many if any boomers that like rap. In fact most people older than 18 probably don't like it. The industry is relying and focusing too much on one segment that the majority of people actually despise and they can't figure out what's wrong. Hehehehe. The best music ever made was made between 1965 and 1975 roughly. I suggest the media companies go back and figure out what made that music great and recapture that magic if they want to make money. They can blame poor sales on P2P all they want but it was never the problem.
Reply to this comment
Plenty for you to like...
by LuvLoogie February 27, 2007 11:06 PM PST
...Just look--and listen! Come out of your musical cave once in
a while. There was also a lot of crap released between 1965 and
1975l.
What happened is that the baby boomers forgot to teach their
kids basic ethics. Downloading pirated music is like a little
white lie these days.
Evolve buddy! Most of anything anywhere anytime--sucks.
That said...
by LuvLoogie February 27, 2007 11:33 PM PST
I mainly agree with your point. Let's discuss '65-'75. List what
you like, and I'll suggest some current additions to your
collection.
Yes, today's music truly blows...
by mn39202 February 28, 2007 1:21 PM PST
but the best music wasn't made between 1965 and 1975 (except for that Oh blah di oh blah dah song, that's a timeless classic). It was written between 1650 and 1827.

Pop music today is engineered to the exact specifications of the music industry. Each "act" consists of small numbers of individuals with no specific talent or skill performing simple mindless ditties which are better suited to electronic reproduction than to live performance. Imagine if you had to replace Beyonce with 67 virtuoso performers. After salaries and production costs, there wouldn't be much room for profit.
View reply
We're not the target market
by jd1023948 February 28, 2007 3:37 PM PST
Music is marketed to teenagers and early twenty-somethings. They have the disposable cash to waste on crappy pop music. Ironically, they're also the demographic most likely to pirate music. Adults have mortgages, car payments, kids, IRA payments, and so on, so we don't spend on music. So the music industry isn't interested producing music for us. If the music industry is smart, they'll start putting money into promoting musicians for the demographic who's willing to pay for their product.
Sony
by gggg sssss February 28, 2007 7:44 PM PST
Not just the music sucks. Would you buy anything from Sony after the rootkit fiasco? Would you buy anything that came with a label that siad it would not play in your computer / car / whatever / DVD player? Would you buy something for $1.99 that you could only play on one computer? That if your hard drive fried would vanish into thin air? Wait till somebody else ripped it and then borrow it. Even promise to give it back when you are finished it it make you feelk better.
Web radio
by billmosby February 27, 2007 7:13 PM PST
I buy from iTunes a bit, but listen to the huge variety on Live365
for about $4 something a month. Suits me just fine. Hope the
artists are making at least something from that.
Reply to this comment
You like web radio? . . .
by K.P.C. February 28, 2007 10:07 PM PST
Try pandora.com
It's free and you create your own stations based on the artist you
like to listen to.
For example you can set up the "Jack Johnson" station and it will
play not only J.J. but many other artists of the same style or
genre and you can decide if you like or dislike the new artist.
You can also set up the:
"Jack Johnson/Black Eyed Peas/Modest Mouse/Radiohead/Janes
Addiction/Red Hot Chili Peppers" station
or the
"Beatles/Rolling Stones/Led Zepplin/Van Halen/Eric Clapton/Bob
Dylan" station.
Or what ever combination you like or even genre you like and it's
free!

Disclaimer:
I do not nor have I ever been an employee of Pandora.com ;-)
Not quality of music, QUANTITY
by Goodman.seth February 27, 2007 8:00 PM PST
You just CAN'T talk about quality of music these days....it's
begging for an argument, and rightfully so. Every generation's
music is always the best music ever, live with it.

The problem is instead the vast amount of artists that are signed
each year, and get a half-assed marketing plan that relys
entirely on the strenth of the first single. With so many new
artists appearing every week, consumers are confused and
choose just to sample a little of everything, just buy singles
instead of the whole album. That's fine for Apple, they love the
business. But labels don't make money for singles, they make
money from the physical CD's being bought (mostly because
they are COMPLETELY screwing over the artist).

But I agree that these industry leaders are clueless. Don't come
down on Jobs, learn a god damn lesson from him, and watch
sales increase ten fold like apple has since the beginning of their
online music store.
Reply to this comment
well, take a look...
by jeremy.pickett February 27, 2007 8:59 PM PST
...at www.bmuze.com. lots of indie artists, no DRM, and free sharing/embedding of music similar to youtube.

(yes, this is a shameless plug)
Reply to this comment
Over 90% is DRM Free.
by open-mind February 27, 2007 9:08 PM PST
Every CD is DRM free.

As Jobs asked, why do they insist on DRM for online sales, but not for the 90+% of music sold on CD?
Reply to this comment
and over 90% of music download is free
by Thomas_74 February 27, 2007 9:26 PM PST
forget DRM.. there is so much music available for download on peer to peer networks which had no DRM.. its in MP3 format to be played anywhere and everywhere...
View all 3 replies
Correction
by ddesy February 28, 2007 9:12 AM PST
All real CDs are DRM free. Some CDs are not true redbook and do have some form of DRM.
View reply
What music execs really need is...
by Thomas_74 February 27, 2007 9:38 PM PST
a way to monetize thousands of people downloading illegal content all around the world, forget the business models, even if you start selling your online songs for 5 cents.. why would any one pay for it when I can get it off bitTorrents for free.. and not only high quality - DRM free music, every thing from Television shows (some of them even before it airs on TV), Movies, Softwares ,Games, Books, Magazines, etc.. everything is available on BitTorrents.. MiniNova.org alone claims billions of file downloads, and that volume speaks a lot... Mininova is just one such site out of 100's more out there which catalogs torrents... this is a huge market.. millions of people all around the globe downloading files .. figure out a way to monetize this traffic.. market to these people, if they download your song, go and throw a concert in that town, or city and make money off it... i think all you guys need to do is think outside the bun (i mean the box).. Peace..
Reply to this comment
Who has time?
by hal Summers February 27, 2007 10:24 PM PST
I love music. I have hundreds of CD's and thousands of songs in
my music library. What I don't have is time to listen to them all
anymore. Music is but one of many entertainment choices I
have and when I'm not working I just don't have the time to be
listening to the music I own. Why would I buy more? I have a
$14.01 credit on my iTunes account and it's been there forever.
I haven't found anything I want to buy (any suggestions?: I like
alt like radiohead, nin, u2 and jazz).
Why buy music when I have internet radio, I listen to public radio
in my car and If I wanted it, satellite radio.
The music execs need to figure out a way to give customers
something for their money other than the music. When people
buy collectible albums it's not due to the music, it's do to the
collectible. Give me something worth collecting and I might
spring for it even if I already own the music. Disney does it with
DVD and I bet their are people who have several copies of the
same movie in different packages with different extras. Do the
same thing with music and maybe customers will show some
interest.
Oh, and lower the prices.
Reply to this comment
Who has time?
by hal Summers February 27, 2007 10:26 PM PST
I love music. I have hundreds of CD's and thousands of songs in
my music library. What I don't have is time to listen to them all
anymore. Music is but one of many entertainment choices I
have and when I'm not working I just don't have the time to be
listening to the music I own. Why would I buy more? I have a
$14.01 credit on my iTunes account and it's been there forever.
I haven't found anything I want to buy (any suggestions?: I like
alt like radiohead, nin, u2 and jazz).
Why buy music when I have internet radio, I listen to public radio
in my car and If I wanted it, satellite radio.
The music execs need to figure out a way to give customers
something for their money other than the music. When people
buy collectible albums it's not due to the music, it's due to the
collectible. Give me something worth collecting and I might
spring for it even if I already own the music. Disney does it with
DVDs and I bet there are people who have several copies of the
same movie in different packages with different extras. Do the
same thing with music and maybe customers will show some
interest.
Oh, and lower the prices.
Reply to this comment
Guaranteed wages for ... ?!
by ptroxler February 28, 2007 12:19 AM PST
The music industry and its execs follow a weird line of thought:
"we are part of a (capitalist) market economy, hence we are
guaranteed to make profits (whatever business model we apply)
... and if not a (any) law has to be established which forces
society to give us the money we deserve (according to our
business plan, not according to any products or services we
deliver).

This sounds like a socialist call for guaranteed wages for
everybody ... except that: "this time round it is only for the
music execs -- sorry, mate"
Reply to this comment
I wonder if...
by JFDMit February 28, 2007 12:22 AM PST
...the dinosaurs roared and bellowed at the skies darkening over their heads. I wonder if they raged against the falling temperatures and tried to stamp on the irritating mammals scurrying around their feet. "What we need," said one allosaur to another, "is a way make all these bad things unhappen. Get on it." I think the music industry's attempts to turn back time will meet with similar success.
Reply to this comment
...
by coconinoite February 28, 2007 8:47 PM PST
good analogy
Keep Whining Away Music Industry
by swiftouch February 28, 2007 2:01 AM PST
You give us lewd pop, hip-hop, and more garbage than at any other time. If you want to "revive" the music industry get rid of MTV, BET, and VH1 and start moving back into music like you get from Buble, Norah Jones, etc. You have no one to blame but the artists themselves and you who support that garbage and absolute filth that comes from those like Akon, Beyonce, J Timberlake, and Nelly Furtado.

These musicians have used their many talents and opportunities to produce great music...but instead have embraced music that reaks of rotting garbage. One Hundred Percent of what you're seeing mr and mrs music executive is a crowd unwilling to buy up the stinking trash.
Reply to this comment
a bunch of exe.wankers
by SamoUmer February 28, 2007 3:15 AM PST
what a pocket sized CD?

oh yeah, denius - death to apple...
Reply to this comment
Music Distribution
by foliekue February 28, 2007 4:16 AM PST
One thing that I think the digital music conference should be discussing is the fact that in an industry where the consumer is capable of constantly increasing their demand for the product the overall sales are in decline even though there is constant positive innovation in the product going on.
We can consume an infinite amount of music and there is a significant segment of consumers always willing to try new stuff so we know that the problem is not with the consumer demand. There are simply excellent artists producing great music everyday all over the world (we don?t necessarily get them all on our radar screen). There is always something new that we like so we know that the issue is not with the product. The issue lies in the distribution. The industry has simply got it WRONG. Either they take steps to fix the distribution system or they will continue to see declining sales.
I am 44 years old so have seen, records, cassettes and CD's. Now we are in the era of digital music yet someone who used to buy records, cassettes and CD's no longer purchases music. Don't get me wrong, I love music but I refuse to buy it under the current conditions.
I share the vision of Steve Jobs when he says "Imagine a world where every online store sells DRM-free music encoded in open licensable formats," Jobs wrote in a letter that rocked the music industry. "In such a world, any player can play music purchased from any store, and any store can sell music which is playable on all players. This is clearly the best alternative for consumers, and Apple would embrace it in a heartbeat."
The industry may think that suing its own (potential) customers is a good idea but it seems to me that this is a clear sign that there is something seriously wrong. While I can understand the industry?s apprehension regarding piracy if music was distributed DRM-free, I cannot agree with the approach being taken today.
Perhaps the whole music industry business model has to be re-examined. If the volume was there then the cost per minute (or byte, or song) of music could come down to a reasonable level where the whole question of piracy becomes irrelevant since there won?t be any. If the price is right a consumer will always buy the genuine article rather than take a pirated copy with no guarantee of quality.
The only question in my mind is how to create a distribution system that enables the cost of music to scale downwards with increasing volume. Changes in the marketing of music will also have to occur with lower cost yet more effective marketing techniques being employed. The marketing and distribution does not have to be limited to the online medium alone. I for one have many views on how the revenue per square foot of existing music retailers (and other players in the retail landscape) can be enhanced while reducing the distribution and inventory holding costs. Of course as long as the industry is not willing to move to DRM-Free distribution nothing can be implemented.
Will we still have mega stars making mega bucks in this new world of DRM-Free music? The answer is quite simply yes however a significant portion their earnings may not come from the sale of the music alone.
So I suppose in short the question is whether or not those who control the industry have the courage to change, to listen to their customers and to do the right thing so we all start buying music again.
Will someone please lead the way!!
Reply to this comment
This is good...
by MichaGato March 1, 2007 4:07 AM PST
You have made a acurate and deep assessment of the question.

For the music exec's is time to face the facts: they're expendable, no the artists. The artists are the one's who should get rich, and they could on cents per song, video, etc...
state of the music industry
by kosmofenster February 28, 2007 4:22 AM PST
blaming the technology companies is off the mark. content owners control DRM rules and if they recognize they are not the solution, they are the ones to take the decision to remove them. this isn't rocket scientry, it's the music business.
Reply to this comment
Hey Buy direct from the Artist!!
by redison February 28, 2007 5:11 AM PST
Thats what I do, bypassing the pin-brained greedy music
companies and their execs. And most of the music I like cannot
be found in either pirated or legal downloadable form! OK I have
eclectic tastes, but you would be amazed at what is offered for
sale direct from the artists websites, and its good karma since
the artists get paid as well.

At 48, I have bought records (33, 45 and 78), cassettes, and
OMG 8-tracks! I do believe that the music offered in recent
times is really commoditised. For me the best music was from
1965 to about 1985, do there!
View reply
Showing 1 of 3 pages (91 Comments)
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