Microsoft urges EU to leave Vista security intact

But regulators say the software giant is misleading if it points to regulators as the cause of delays.

The story "Microsoft urges EU to leave Vista security intact" published September 12, 2006 at 5:28 AM is no longer available on CNET News.

Content from Reuters expires after 30 days.

[toosday]

Wha't going on?

Does it look like the EU is just scrrewing with Microsoft for the sake of it now? Maybe the EU is actually enjoying this?

[umbrae]

Same thing in US

The same thing happened in the US, but it drizzled in fanfair. Basically, the US government blessed MS' monopolistic behaviour in exchange for kickbacks to the US schools. Most computer equipment in public schools was given free of charge by MS.

Not to mention US officials are lobbied heavily by MS, which makes it difficult to fine them 200 mil in fines.

[Macsaresafer]

Microsoft is having trouble scamming the EU.

They aren't adding features, they're creating a protection racket.
They're responsible for the OS. If it isn't secure, they should fix the
holes. Instead, they've chosen to charge their customers for the
'service' of protecting them from the very dangers they've created!

If I break your windows and then try to sell you glass insurance, I'll
go to jail. Microsoft is getting off easy.

[OneWithTech]

Sombody's angry...

...because the EU want's to ensure that you don't pump out another security flawed XP2.

Justin

[unknown unknown]

RE

The EU isn't concerned with the security Vista. I am sure if Microsoft did manages to harden Vista, companies like Symmantec would complain about Microsoft damaging their business. They're aready complaining about new kernal protection features (which are of questionable security value). They complain about Microsoft OneCare products even though they are sold seperately.

[zxocuteboy]

Why Do We Care - VISTA IS GONNA SUCK

Check out this review of RC1 for vista:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://zxo.blogspot.com/2006/08/windows-vista-pre-rc1-sucks-too.html" target="_newWindow">http://zxo.blogspot.com/2006/08/windows-vista-pre-rc1-sucks-too.html</a>

[MSFT Fan Boy]

Get Serious

You want a blog from a nobody to carry weight with us? This is a joke right?

If you are looking for responsible evaluations of Vista how about looking to well known, credible organizations. Here are real reviews of RC1. They contain the good and the bad:

PC Mag:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2011603,00.asp" target="_newWindow">http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2011603,00.asp</a>

Information Week:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.techweb.com/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=161300005&#38;pgno=1" target="_newWindow">http://www.techweb.com/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=161300005&#38;pgno=1</a>

Computerworld:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&#38;taxonomyName=security&#38;articleId=9002956&#38;taxonomyId=17&#38;intsrc=kc_top" target="_newWindow">http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&#38;taxonomyName=security&#38;articleId=9002956&#38;taxonomyId=17&#38;intsrc=kc_top</a>

MFB

[Captain_Spock]

SPOCK TO ENGINEERING AT REDMOND!

Are you "spineless" or what for not wanting to tell the Europe to "GET WARPED". Just who needs "VISTA" when there is OS/2 WARP and LINUX that can do the SAMBA: "NetLabs has released (9/10/2006) SAMBA 3.0.9 alpha 9; both client and server are included. Also available is 3.0.9 beta 13 of a client plugin for the NetDrive Filesystem, which supports 64-bit file I/O with NDFS 3.0 or higher. It allows you to mount SMB or CIFS shares on OS/2 without the need of NetBIOS (IBM LAN Manager or IBM Peer). Samba is freely available under the GNU General Public License; you can download the full OS/2 source code from NetLabs CVS. Bugs should be reported on XTracker. You can see information about sponsoring NetLabs. You can find the latest build on NetLabs FTP. From VOICE News.

As to why EUROPE is so hooked on dancing with the guys from REDMOND who apparently lack the kind of "male virility" to stand and say "good-bye" as we have a "QUIET SUPER-SONIC" FLIGHT (the whole world is the market place) to "get on" is incomprehensible. It is time for REDMOND to move at WARP SPEED by "jettisoning" the OS/2 SOURCE-CODES towards the VISTA's BROTHERLY COMMUNITY and let the rest of the world view EUROPE from the SPACE TELESCOPES!

[alegr]

Funny

Wow, great piece of BS! I like those caps! Make you sound like a 733t!

Alfa (not even beta) of Samba client! Finally! Great! Beta 13 of 64 bit client (what a great 64-bit feature! Never mind that NT-based Windows supports 64 bit I/O from the very beginning).

How about designing your own NEW network file protocol, not NFS unsecure piece of **** Unix guys came with (wow, hostname-based access rights!)? Doesn't it mean that SMB protocol is the best thing after sliced bread? Why do you people care at all about SMB?

[spesknight]

Old strategy, will it work?

This is an old strategy microsoft used also with Dell and others: if you don't agree with our policy we will delay the new updates for you.
It could be a good strategy with old software (windows 95 and maybe even xp) but with Vista obliging to buy a new computer for just some "cool" features and not much more, who bothers?
Maybe it's even better if Vista will be adopted later in europe.
I'm european and I don't plan to update very soon (I've only just updated to xp2, and only because I was obliged as I bought a new computer)...
And maybe it could push linux adoption in Europe, too...
Come on, Microsoft, do it!

[MSFT Fan Boy]

Why Wait?

Having grown up in a UNIX world, I'd challenge you to do this: Remove XP from your machine and move to your favorite Linux dist immediately. Use it for 3 months and then come back to this forum and give us your honest opinion of your experience. History tells me that your attitude toward XP and Windows may change for the better.

Seriously, do you really believe that ANY software company on the planet could simply strip out features of a major product release with no impact whatsoever to schedule or cost? It would be irresponsible for ANY company not to warn a political group that forcing them to make changes to their code base may push out the schedule. It you think otherwise then perhaps you should try working on a software project and then come back and share your experience with us. I've never done anything nearly as big as Vista, and I can tell you that every time a customer requests a change for an app that my company was building for them we always tell them that change requests may likely push out the schedule. It's called setting expectations.

Most importantly, the EU is a a political org. If anyone thinks this has anything to do with something other than pure political BS you are kidding yourself. The EU should be ashamed of this. If the US government did this to SAP I'm sure our friends in Germany would cry foul, and so should we in the U.S. This is politics at its worse.

[wbenton]

Huh????

&gt;&gt;&gt;"We want to launch Windows Vista in a fully lawful manner and we want to avoid regulatory decisions that could increase security risks for European consumers," Andersen said.&lt;&lt;&lt;

If Microsoft doesn't want to increase security risks for Europeans... then they shouldn't release Vista until at least SP2 has rolled out. (* GRIN *)

Walt

[Reiley]

Question

Why doesn't the US have similar laws to make MS split up their software?

[David Arbogast]

Because we are free.

&lt;&lt;Why doesn't the US have similar laws to make MS split up their software?&gt;&gt;

Because the US has capitalistic society living within a free Republic. And our government knows that our success has come from allowing fast-food restaurants to decide what to put on their own burgers.

When you buy a burger, you get it the way it comes - unless the company selling the burger decides to allow you to customize it.

The government knows that dictating which burgers get lettuce and which burgers get tomatos and mayo is a disaster for the economy - because nobody knows the product and the customer better than the supplier - and its in the suppliers interest to get it right - or go out of business.

If Microsoft built terrible products, as some people would have you believe, then they wouldn't stay in business long, because there are workable alternatives. Microsoft delivers to their customers what is wanted and needed by the majority. If the US government made laws dictating software design, those designs would be in the interest of politics - because the government doesn't spend tax dollars researching the needs and desires of computer users - and the taxpayers wouldn't stand for it if they did.

[Captain_Spock]

IN THAT...

... "The Commission and Microsoft are locked in a legal battle dating to 2004, when Brussels hit the company with a multimillion-dollar antitrust fine and demanded changes in its business practices...."; it appears that "walking away from the love" for each other (or perhaps; it is for the "money") must be a "really, really very hard thing" for either of them to do in this on-going marital dispute!

[Luhng]

Problems for Microsoft.... good news

To me, anything that causes a problem for Microsoft is good news.

Ive been forced to suffer, what I believe to be, the worst (over priced) programmes ever written, for years and anything that gives a bit of the pain back suits me fine.

Ive looked at magazine reviews which have placed Vista above Apples offering but thats a quick test. I assume Vista will be just another dud in, what has been my experience, a long line of duds.

I recall reading the wonderful Microsoft self praise as I loaded XP for the first time &and I keep seeing the same comments about stability and the elimination of crashes as I have to repeatedly reformat my hard drive to clear up the mess and stop further crashes. (And I have top of the line everything protection at maximum strength and don't engage in casual downloading or installation of programmes.)

(Notice how XP extols how, if it freezes, it allows you save your work and close the programme. Really? It does that does it? Not on my version. Its the old crash and re-boot Windows 3.1 except on occasions too rare to mention.)

As an example of this world beating OS:

Nothing I could download from Microsoft would allow me to re-format my NFTS drive (it would allow me to sit there for 60 minutes and watch the re-format tick over by % but it didnt delete a thing).

My early version of XP doesnt allow me to format a clean drive over 137Gigs. When I used the drive manufacturers software to partition it, installing XP killed my D drive 3 times requiring re-format.

When it finally accepted the drive and installed, updating XP from the internet, destroyed my drive 3 times more (gave an un-resolvable error at attempted re-boot).

Each of the 6 failures was for a different reason &..XP couldnt even fail consistently!

So on a fast computer, with an experienced user it took 2 days to simply install XP.

I can use a LINUX portable CD OS and achieve the same result, including loading office products, in about 6 minutes.

Look at Word, I have never been able to (and have never found a training expert able to) copy or indent properly on the programme. And year by year Ive watched Microsoft add more and more gimmicks to overcome the myriad of problems, for me, without the vaguest success. Every update of Word, I find, simply requires the deactivation of more dumb little addons to an extent that I now believe an expert on Word is merely someone who knows what to deactivate and the quickest way around its long term bugs and failures. Please dont mention Styles.

In 2 months as a complete PC novice and no training I could get better results, more easily, with WordPerfect 5 than I can with Word on the same documents as an experienced PC user with 10+ years experience and training on Word.

Excel &.about the same.

With 1.5 gigs of RAM, I can copy about 10KB of information, attempt to paste it into Word and get the message You dont have enough resources. Try closing some programmes. Not good when Word, Internet explorer and the firewall are the only programmes running and the PC shows 1.1Gig of RAM available!!!

Or what about a selective boot through XPs configuration tool? As the only user on an un-pass worded PC I get the message You do not have the authority to do this. (Of course, notwithstanding the message it selectively boots, deleting all my restore points in the process which are supposedly protected files according to the wonderful installation blurb.)

Ever noticed how, in virtually all Microsoft products you get error messages that arent in the Help, not even the words used are available in search? From my experience help in a Microsoft product is just another source of aggravation.

And I could go on ad infinitum about this company which, I believe, has developed a monopolistic arrogance resulting a total lack of pride or interest in what it produces.

They tell me Vista is going to be great?

Now I am no longer forced to use Microsoft products through my work, Ill never buy another Microsoft product and I wont upgrade to Vista even if I get it for free.

So &good one Europe keep it up.

[MSFT Fan Boy]

Funny the Differences

I've used XP for 5 years now, and I use my computer heavily. I have XP on my laptops that are owned by my company and on 3 machines at home (one for my wife, one for games and one we use as a Media Center PC). I've run everything from Oracle to SQL Server to Java to .NET to high end games on my various XP and Windows Server paritions. And my experience has been great. If I had the same experience as you, I'd probably have the same reaction. But, I'm currently sending this email from a machine running Vista RC1, and guess what ... it is indeed even better than my XP machines. Sorry you've had so many issues. But, many of us have seen great progress and been happy with XP. So, we are excited about Vista. From what I've seen of RC1 over the past 5 days it's been great. I'd tell you to give it a test run, but you've obviously given up on MSFT.

So, I disgree. I hate the EU or any other government agency meddling in our industry. They are not trying to help consumers. They only want two things: power and money. Has anyone noticed that the issues in the US disappeared as soon as MSFT began getting involved in "educating" politicians on their stance (i.e. joining the rest of Corporate America in having lobbyists). This deeply disturbs me. I suspect the same would happen in the EU if MSFT starts to grease some palms there too. Most politicians look at successful companies and think, "Hmmn. How can I get some money out of them to support my excessive lifestyle or my next election campaign." Shameful and sad that its come to this.

And, for the millionth time, no one forces anyone to use Windows. If you don't want to use it then buy a MAC running UNIX/Linux. It's easy to make a switch. But, do not give me any foolishness about MSFT holding a gun to your head to use their products. This is a free land. Use whatever product you want.

[techguy83]

wow, complete opposite for me

Now don't get me wrong. There is a lot I hate about Microsoft's OSes (security being the chief concern. Its why I also have a Mac.)

But my XP box runs fine. Age of Empires 3 on high settings, no problem. Civ IV? Same thing. Rise of Legends on high settings? No difficulties. Word? To make an indent, you just pull the indent tab over to the proper location. They teach that to middle/elementary school kids. Its not that difficult. But I like Word Perfect too.

Copying on Word? Really simple. Select the text you want to copy, right click, choose copy. Its copied. Or just select the text and use Control + C on your keyboard. Or select the text and use the easy to find copy tool under edit in Word. Sounds like you just don't want to find those options.

Also, isn't Word Perfect 5 the old version where all you see is a Bluescreen with your typed information? Where you need to know the function and keyboard commands to do most things?

And as for the boot up issue, it seems you had a bad XP disk or something. It happens. I had a really bad system experience with my Mac. Got a new disk to put on the system and it worked.

So please understand that I feel that several of your points are not valid. Especially the ones about Word.

[spesknight]

Large Database

For large database I mean database of 1TB or more.
I don't know if Microsoft is good with these.
It's true that Oracle is not good on security, but we use it only on intranets so this is less of a problem. I do agree that Oracle is not good for the web and of course it costs a lot.
Thank you for your advice on the current status of Sql Server, maybe I will give it a try.
However, what makes me hate Microsoft is that I'm obliged to buy Windows when I buy a new computer.
Microsoft is not a big problem on the server market, it is an unfair competitor on the desktop market.
Probably that's the reason why its server products are better than the desktop ones.

[spesknight]

Large Database

For large database I mean database of 1TB or more.
I don't know if Microsoft is good with these.
It's true that Oracle is not good on security, but we use it only on intranets so this is less of a problem. I do agree that Oracle is not good for the web and of course it costs a lot.
Thank you for your advice on the current status of Sql Server, maybe I will give it a try.
However, what makes me hate Microsoft is that I'm obliged to buy Windows when I buy a new computer.
Microsoft is not a big problem on the server market, it is an unfair competitor on the desktop market.
Probably that's the reason why its server products are better than the desktop ones.