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It's Windows vs. Windows as Microsoft battles piracy
February 3, 2005 -
Microsoft: Legit Windows or no updates
January 25, 2005 -
Microsoft: Can we check your software license?
September 17, 2004
Intended to curtail the stealing and selling of certificates of authenticity, the new security measure will start at the end of this month. At first, it will be limited to the Windows XP software preinstalled on systems shipped by the top 20 PC sellers.
"The main reason (for the change) is to address piracy in this area," a Microsoft representative said on Thursday. "Microsoft has found various people selling the labels of authenticity that they have copied or have pulled off other PCs."
The change is the latest attempt by Microsoft to target software pirates who try to sell stolen copies of Windows XP or the certificates of authenticity that mark the software as legitimate. The company has a plan to check that people's operating systems are properly licensed before allowing them to download certain updates. The plan, known as the Windows Genuine Advantage initiative, was introduced in January.
Starting Feb. 28, Microsoft's product security will require that customers who need to reinstall their operating system call a customer service representative to get a code that will reactivate their Windows XP system. New systems shipped from the top 20 PC makers, also known as original equipment manufacturers (OEMs), will be preactivated, stated a memo posted to the blog Aviran's Place. The Microsoft representative said the memo was authentic.
"To reduce the illegal trafficking of these OEM product keys, Microsoft will 'disable' the ability to activate these direct OEM Product Keys over the Internet," the memo stated. "When a customer or reseller tries to activate using a Product Key found on the list of 'disabled' keys, the online product activation wizard will instruct them to call Microsoft, where a customer service representative can assist them further."
The customer representative will ask several questions, such as where the person bought the Windows XP system, to find out whether the certificate is authentic, the representative said.
See more CNET content tagged:
product activation, authenticity, customer service representative, certificate, memo
Wait until the school district finds out they will have to call MS every time they reimage a machine, unless they pay to upgrade the dells (which come with XP pro) to the enterprise version which doesnt require activation.
MS is brilliant in this respect. In the eighties MS defeated WordPerfect and others by pronouncing it would sell uncopylocked software, presumably knowing full well this would create an entire market based on unlicensed software. That allowed MS to make its billions where it really makes money--tieing Windows tight to every new PC sale.
The brilliance here is that many many users will be fearful of protesting lest they be fingered for digital lynching under the DMA or Product Activation or Genuine Advantage.
Effectively, the general [often unlicensed] public is hog-tied overall and will be afraid to speak up, letting MS win hands-down.
Even we licensed users will be hurt by all this, as the forced sale of new PCs will drive up PC costs for the rest of us as well as demand ramps up.
"To reduce the illegal trafficking of these OEM product keys, Microsoft will 'disable' the ability to activate these direct OEM Product Keys over the Internet," the memo stated. "When a customer or reseller tries to activate using a Product Key found on the list of 'disabled' keys, the online product activation wizard will instruct them to call Microsoft, where a customer service representative can assist them further."
So the OEMs have leaked out the keys which allow you to activate millions of stolen software and now those keys don't work. I don't see what the big deal is.
What is really getting old is the fact that people are complaining that MS is trying to make sure every single copy needs to be paid for. It's their software - they can do whatever they please.
Wait until the school district finds out they will have to call MS every time they reimage a machine, unless they pay to upgrade the dells (which come with XP pro) to the enterprise version which doesnt require activation.
MS is brilliant in this respect. In the eighties MS defeated WordPerfect and others by pronouncing it would sell uncopylocked software, presumably knowing full well this would create an entire market based on unlicensed software. That allowed MS to make its billions where it really makes money--tieing Windows tight to every new PC sale.
The brilliance here is that many many users will be fearful of protesting lest they be fingered for digital lynching under the DMA or Product Activation or Genuine Advantage.
Effectively, the general [often unlicensed] public is hog-tied overall and will be afraid to speak up, letting MS win hands-down.
Even we licensed users will be hurt by all this, as the forced sale of new PCs will drive up PC costs for the rest of us as well as demand ramps up.
"To reduce the illegal trafficking of these OEM product keys, Microsoft will 'disable' the ability to activate these direct OEM Product Keys over the Internet," the memo stated. "When a customer or reseller tries to activate using a Product Key found on the list of 'disabled' keys, the online product activation wizard will instruct them to call Microsoft, where a customer service representative can assist them further."
So the OEMs have leaked out the keys which allow you to activate millions of stolen software and now those keys don't work. I don't see what the big deal is.
What is really getting old is the fact that people are complaining that MS is trying to make sure every single copy needs to be paid for. It's their software - they can do whatever they please.
Now were are told that an extra step is needed to prevent piracy. Just as we were told a few weeks ago that the Genuine Advantage digital strip search is also to prevent piracy.
Let us ask in a serious manner at what point the constitutional right of citizens to unreasonable search and seizure will be respected, if at all.
Heck, the bigger question is whether these invasive steps to combat alleged piracy--when piracy was claimed to have been combated via the basic XPPA as originally introduced--does not in fact and in practice set up what amounts to a shadow judicial system run by Microsoft.
When and where did the Congress of the United States allow such a proprietary judge and jury system to come into existence? One U.S. court a few days ago seems to have noted that this authority does not come in the DMCA, in commenting on Hollywood's imposition of a broadcast flag.
U.S. federal lawmakers need to look closely at this MS "piracy" crackdown, as it appears to effectively grant MS the right to enforce copyright law without the assistance of either police, judges, or juries. The "convicted," those losing their software use, might very well be innocent in many cases. And we see no appeals process here at all from what I can[not] see.
There is also the issue that by tradition if we accuse anyone of illegality, there must be a court involved for the punishment to be legit.
Let's have some Genuine Constitutionality here, before we assume this is at all prim and/or proper. Do we really want unsupervised Microsoft Vigilante Justice on the wild wild software frontier?
Now were are told that an extra step is needed to prevent piracy. Just as we were told a few weeks ago that the Genuine Advantage digital strip search is also to prevent piracy.
Let us ask in a serious manner at what point the constitutional right of citizens to unreasonable search and seizure will be respected, if at all.
Heck, the bigger question is whether these invasive steps to combat alleged piracy--when piracy was claimed to have been combated via the basic XPPA as originally introduced--does not in fact and in practice set up what amounts to a shadow judicial system run by Microsoft.
When and where did the Congress of the United States allow such a proprietary judge and jury system to come into existence? One U.S. court a few days ago seems to have noted that this authority does not come in the DMCA, in commenting on Hollywood's imposition of a broadcast flag.
U.S. federal lawmakers need to look closely at this MS "piracy" crackdown, as it appears to effectively grant MS the right to enforce copyright law without the assistance of either police, judges, or juries. The "convicted," those losing their software use, might very well be innocent in many cases. And we see no appeals process here at all from what I can[not] see.
There is also the issue that by tradition if we accuse anyone of illegality, there must be a court involved for the punishment to be legit.
Let's have some Genuine Constitutionality here, before we assume this is at all prim and/or proper. Do we really want unsupervised Microsoft Vigilante Justice on the wild wild software frontier?
Just want to say 'Thanks MS'
Just want to say 'Thanks MS'
When I was on the XP beta, I thought I remembered there being talk that the big manufacturers could "burn" the product key into the BIOS so the consumer would never have to activate. Thereby tying that installation of windows to that specific computer permanently.
I am sure there will be an answer in that forum fairly soon.
When I was on the XP beta, I thought I remembered there being talk that the big manufacturers could "burn" the product key into the BIOS so the consumer would never have to activate. Thereby tying that installation of windows to that specific computer permanently.
I am sure there will be an answer in that forum fairly soon.
This is a crock of poo-poo. I am sick of this. I don't have any choice at work, but I do at home. Can Microsoft say Bye-Bye.
I find this kind of amusing though. Microsoft is going to push people to linux and mac. They are going to stop people from upgrading to Windows XP from 98 and 2000. They are going to start loosing home users who get fed up with calling to reactivate windows. They are going to make sure the "gurus" learn linux and start pushing it to the other home users.
I wish I could say that this would go away after a trial run, but I don't figure it will ever go away without a trial.
I just want to say to all you die hard loyal Microsoft fans. Have fun fighting with Microsoft.
This is a crock of poo-poo. I am sick of this. I don't have any choice at work, but I do at home. Can Microsoft say Bye-Bye.
I find this kind of amusing though. Microsoft is going to push people to linux and mac. They are going to stop people from upgrading to Windows XP from 98 and 2000. They are going to start loosing home users who get fed up with calling to reactivate windows. They are going to make sure the "gurus" learn linux and start pushing it to the other home users.
I wish I could say that this would go away after a trial run, but I don't figure it will ever go away without a trial.
I just want to say to all you die hard loyal Microsoft fans. Have fun fighting with Microsoft.
I don't think that product activation is the cure either though. Any software blocks MS puts in can be bypassed by a clever hacker. There are several website with thousands of serials and cracks to get around the protection.
I don't think that product activation is the cure either though. Any software blocks MS puts in can be bypassed by a clever hacker. There are several website with thousands of serials and cracks to get around the protection.
software is on my machine. (I don't think so.)
First, send them e-mails everyday about you dislike of what they are doing.
Second, Support Linux or another alternitive OS's developement.
Third, Start requesting refunds from Microsoft and/or you software vender when Microsoft does something like this.
Fourth, write you congress man and press them hard to fight against Microsoft.
Fifth, stop support Microsoft.
software is on my machine. (I don't think so.)
First, send them e-mails everyday about you dislike of what they are doing.
Second, Support Linux or another alternitive OS's developement.
Third, Start requesting refunds from Microsoft and/or you software vender when Microsoft does something like this.
Fourth, write you congress man and press them hard to fight against Microsoft.
Fifth, stop support Microsoft.
Copies of Windows that come with machines from the major manufacturers -- e.g. Dell -- do NOT use the activation key on the COA that is affixed to the side of the machine. All Dell machines from the factory use a single master key that is locked to the BIOS on Dell machines. This allows them to use system pre-install images to load the boxes. It also means that the customers who own these boxes can reload their system images without needing to re-activate.
The problem is that this allows people to take these "unused" COA's off the side of these boxes and resell them. What Microsoft is doing is de-activating these keys so that someone re-installing Windows using one of them will be forced to call in over the phone to re-activate them (and telling Microsoft who they bought it from).
This will NOT affect the customers of the big 20 OEM's in the slightest. It will ONLY affect the people who bought systems or copies of the OS that had been illegally debundled from one of these systems.
The only catch may be when someone has repaired one of these systems with a different motherboard than originally came with it -- which DOES require using the keycode on the side. There are also some legality questions on whether or not these OEM copies can be debundled from these machines and resold in the case where the machine was never sold at retail and ended up being stripped for parts. According to Microsoft, the answer is NO. However, the definition of "the HARDWARE" in their EULA is sufficiently vague that as long as any single piece of required non-peripheral equipment that came with the original system is transferred along with the licence, it would probably be LEGAL.
One of the problems with the EULA (from Microsoft's standpoint) is that a customer has to agree to it and click on "I agree" even on copies bundled from OEM's (there is always the system pre-install startup screen even on Dell's, etc). So, legally speaking, a copy of Windows is not permanently affixed to a "system" as a whole until someone does this. Until that time, it is only affixed to the "HARDWARE" that the copy was sold with.
This makes for some very WEIRD scenarios if one thinks about it. For instance, single OEM DSP copies of Windows can only be sold when distributed with a piece of "non-peripheral hardware" (one that the system can not be used without). According to Microsoft, this can even be a *MOUSE*. However, Microsoft defines the MOTHERBOARD as the item on a system to which the key is tied. But, technically, this actually violates their own EULA and terms of sale. LEGALLY speaking, if I buy a single OEM copy of XP (with a mouse) and install it on a computer then it is forever bound to that computer and I can not resell it without reselling the computer. The problem is that, if you read the EULA, the computer is defined as "the HARDWARE" with which it was purchased -- and furthermore it requires that the COA be affixed to "the HARDWARE". So, if I bought the copy of Windows with a mouse, am I required to stick the COA to the bottom of the mouse???? Can I legally ever replace the mouse????
What would be an ever stranger concept -- one that I am sure Microsoft would hate and probably refuse to re-activate -- but that would technically be within the actual LEGAL scope of the EULA, would be to do exactly what I mention above. Purchase an OEM copy of Windows with a mouse (a USB one to be precise), then affix the COA to the bottom of the mouse. From that point on "the HARDWARE" is defined as the mouse and as long as that mouse goes with the copy of XP it could be moved to a different machine. And since you can have multiple USB mice on a given machine, it doesn't even have to be the mouse you are using. I am NOT suggesting you do this, I am just saying that it is probably within the legal scope of the Microsoft EULA.
Basically, Microsofts entire scheme for handling COA's, activation, software transfer, and EULA's is a complete mess. The entire issue of being unable to resell an OEM copy of Windows that came with a machine you purchased raises some serious anti-trust and tieing/bundling issues anyway. This is especially true since you cannot effectively purchase most machines WITHOUT a copy of Windows (try calling Dell and ordering a specific configuration without Windows -- they do have the N series available on some machines but they typically cost MORE than the base units with Windows normally do!)
Personally, I feel that the government should simply recognize that Microsoft does have an OS monopoly and, in the interests of cross compatibility, they should sanction it. Then, as they have done in the past with other monopolies (e.g. AT&T), they should start regulating their business practices and fixing their prices.
"Copies of Windows that come with machines from the major manufacturers -- e.g. Dell -- do NOT use the activation key on the COA that is affixed to the side of the machine. All Dell machines from the factory use a single master key that is locked to the BIOS on Dell machines. This allows them to use system pre-install images to load the boxes. It also means that the customers who own these boxes can reload their system images without needing to re-activate."
But there is a flip-side. When the user NEEDS to use this key, the user will now have to rely on the OEM providing the reactivation. If the OEM is not set up for it or wants to charge a "setup fee," the as-purchased claim that Activation is easy and no fuss is simply nullified.
This is not a trivial change in the least, in these days where hard disc changes are common.
It is also unclear that the Dell system you extol is continuing for long; I have seen at least one reference in Dell forums to an Inspiron 1150 user mentioning that their OS image came on a restorable hard disc partition. This hints that Dell might be prepping for the end of its reinstall-sans-key system.
Copies of Windows that come with machines from the major manufacturers -- e.g. Dell -- do NOT use the activation key on the COA that is affixed to the side of the machine. All Dell machines from the factory use a single master key that is locked to the BIOS on Dell machines. This allows them to use system pre-install images to load the boxes. It also means that the customers who own these boxes can reload their system images without needing to re-activate.
The problem is that this allows people to take these "unused" COA's off the side of these boxes and resell them. What Microsoft is doing is de-activating these keys so that someone re-installing Windows using one of them will be forced to call in over the phone to re-activate them (and telling Microsoft who they bought it from).
This will NOT affect the customers of the big 20 OEM's in the slightest. It will ONLY affect the people who bought systems or copies of the OS that had been illegally debundled from one of these systems.
The only catch may be when someone has repaired one of these systems with a different motherboard than originally came with it -- which DOES require using the keycode on the side. There are also some legality questions on whether or not these OEM copies can be debundled from these machines and resold in the case where the machine was never sold at retail and ended up being stripped for parts. According to Microsoft, the answer is NO. However, the definition of "the HARDWARE" in their EULA is sufficiently vague that as long as any single piece of required non-peripheral equipment that came with the original system is transferred along with the licence, it would probably be LEGAL.
One of the problems with the EULA (from Microsoft's standpoint) is that a customer has to agree to it and click on "I agree" even on copies bundled from OEM's (there is always the system pre-install startup screen even on Dell's, etc). So, legally speaking, a copy of Windows is not permanently affixed to a "system" as a whole until someone does this. Until that time, it is only affixed to the "HARDWARE" that the copy was sold with.
This makes for some very WEIRD scenarios if one thinks about it. For instance, single OEM DSP copies of Windows can only be sold when distributed with a piece of "non-peripheral hardware" (one that the system can not be used without). According to Microsoft, this can even be a *MOUSE*. However, Microsoft defines the MOTHERBOARD as the item on a system to which the key is tied. But, technically, this actually violates their own EULA and terms of sale. LEGALLY speaking, if I buy a single OEM copy of XP (with a mouse) and install it on a computer then it is forever bound to that computer and I can not resell it without reselling the computer. The problem is that, if you read the EULA, the computer is defined as "the HARDWARE" with which it was purchased -- and furthermore it requires that the COA be affixed to "the HARDWARE". So, if I bought the copy of Windows with a mouse, am I required to stick the COA to the bottom of the mouse???? Can I legally ever replace the mouse????
What would be an ever stranger concept -- one that I am sure Microsoft would hate and probably refuse to re-activate -- but that would technically be within the actual LEGAL scope of the EULA, would be to do exactly what I mention above. Purchase an OEM copy of Windows with a mouse (a USB one to be precise), then affix the COA to the bottom of the mouse. From that point on "the HARDWARE" is defined as the mouse and as long as that mouse goes with the copy of XP it could be moved to a different machine. And since you can have multiple USB mice on a given machine, it doesn't even have to be the mouse you are using. I am NOT suggesting you do this, I am just saying that it is probably within the legal scope of the Microsoft EULA.
Basically, Microsofts entire scheme for handling COA's, activation, software transfer, and EULA's is a complete mess. The entire issue of being unable to resell an OEM copy of Windows that came with a machine you purchased raises some serious anti-trust and tieing/bundling issues anyway. This is especially true since you cannot effectively purchase most machines WITHOUT a copy of Windows (try calling Dell and ordering a specific configuration without Windows -- they do have the N series available on some machines but they typically cost MORE than the base units with Windows normally do!)
Personally, I feel that the government should simply recognize that Microsoft does have an OS monopoly and, in the interests of cross compatibility, they should sanction it. Then, as they have done in the past with other monopolies (e.g. AT&T), they should start regulating their business practices and fixing their prices.
"Copies of Windows that come with machines from the major manufacturers -- e.g. Dell -- do NOT use the activation key on the COA that is affixed to the side of the machine. All Dell machines from the factory use a single master key that is locked to the BIOS on Dell machines. This allows them to use system pre-install images to load the boxes. It also means that the customers who own these boxes can reload their system images without needing to re-activate."
But there is a flip-side. When the user NEEDS to use this key, the user will now have to rely on the OEM providing the reactivation. If the OEM is not set up for it or wants to charge a "setup fee," the as-purchased claim that Activation is easy and no fuss is simply nullified.
This is not a trivial change in the least, in these days where hard disc changes are common.
It is also unclear that the Dell system you extol is continuing for long; I have seen at least one reference in Dell forums to an Inspiron 1150 user mentioning that their OS image came on a restorable hard disc partition. This hints that Dell might be prepping for the end of its reinstall-sans-key system.
It only affects people who are using COA's that were "lifted" from one of those machines and then used for activation on a different machine.
People are totally misunderstanding what this is about.
This and other articles seem to say that all COAs on the OEM systems will require OEM-supervised Activation WHEN they are used, and that MS plans to extend this before long to ALL OEM-disgnated Windows copies. An accurate reading of all of the articles I have seen suggest this process is designed to catch the lifted COAs via what used to be called a fishing expedition. Keep in mind that MS can have no idea whether such a COA has been "lifted" except in the context of a voice conversation, wherein the end user will be at the mercy of Microsoft as Judge and Jury, with no appeal evident.
The key may not be needed by the user until the hard drive is replaced or whenwver, but when it is needed MS will not being doing the Aavtivation, or may do it provided the installer answers the shakedown questions well enough.
- You misunderstand the article (actually so does the author).
- by mdburkey February 25, 2005 7:47 AM PST
- This will NOT affect you in the slightest when you re-install if you bought your computer from one of "the big 20".
- Reply to this comment
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- Only the MS PR make your claim
- by PolarUpgrade February 25, 2005 9:39 AM PST
- Michael noted: "It only affects people who are using COA's that were "lifted" from one of those machines and then used for activation on a different machine."
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Showing 1 of 2 pages (56 Comments)It only affects people who are using COA's that were "lifted" from one of those machines and then used for activation on a different machine.
People are totally misunderstanding what this is about.
This and other articles seem to say that all COAs on the OEM systems will require OEM-supervised Activation WHEN they are used, and that MS plans to extend this before long to ALL OEM-disgnated Windows copies. An accurate reading of all of the articles I have seen suggest this process is designed to catch the lifted COAs via what used to be called a fishing expedition. Keep in mind that MS can have no idea whether such a COA has been "lifted" except in the context of a voice conversation, wherein the end user will be at the mercy of Microsoft as Judge and Jury, with no appeal evident.
The key may not be needed by the user until the hard drive is replaced or whenwver, but when it is needed MS will not being doing the Aavtivation, or may do it provided the installer answers the shakedown questions well enough.