April 4, 2007 10:15 AM PDT

Microsoft sued over Vista branding

Microsoft has come under attack for the way it advertises the Vista operating system.

A lawsuit, filed in Seattle, alleges that the company advertised systems as "Vista capable," when in fact the systems were not able to run Vista properly. The suit alleges that the marketing around Vista was designed to deliberately mislead potential customers.

The outcome hangs on the precise definition of the circumstances under which a machine is "Vista capable."

Microsoft has allowed PC vendors to put stickers on their systems saying that they are "Vista ready," when the system could run only Vista Home Basic, which does not allow many of the core features of Vista to run. The suit maintains that it was unreasonable of Microsoft to assume that every person to whom it was marketing Vista could understand the system requirements.

PCs need at least 512MB of RAM, a processor capable of operating at 800MHz or faster and a graphics processor that is DirectX 9-capable to be classified as "Vista capable." However, the suit alleges that it was not clear from Microsoft's advertising and marketing around Vista that while a system may be advertised as "capable," it may be incapable of running many of the advertised features of Vista, such as the Aero desktop.

According to the legal action, which was filed as a class action suit on Thursday, "consumers were falsely led to believe they would be upgraded to a dramatically new operating system bearing the key features marketed by Microsoft." In particular, the court action highlights Microsoft's "Express Upgrade" plan, which upgraded users from Windows XP to Vista Basic. This was an upgrade to Vista "in name only," the suit alleged, and "not the functionality."

Microsoft said it had made extensive efforts to inform buyers about the hardware resources needed to run Vista.

"We conducted a broad effort to educate computer manufacturers, retailers and consumers about the hardware requirements to run different versions of Windows Vista," the company said in a statement. "This well-documented effort occurred as part of the Windows Vista Capable program. We look forward to presenting this information to the court and addressing all other issues raised in this lawsuit."

Details of the lawsuit were reported Tuesday by The Seattle Post-Intelligencer.

Colin Barker of ZDNet UK reported from London.

See more CNET content tagged:
suit, Microsoft Windows Vista, lawsuit, class action, Microsoft Corp.

155 comments

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Strange
Wow this is strange, there are usually 6 or 7 posts from mac and linux losers screeming about how bad Microsoft is..
Posted by eriky4 (9 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Microsoft is really bad
Microsoft is really bad! Very mean and evil!

Happy?

Since we're asking for useless posts, let's add as many as we can,
shall we?
Posted by ElderBrE (2 comments )
Link Flag
how bad is M$?
I have never owned an M$ installed computer in 25 years. I come
from a graphics-printing background and have maybe spent a
total of 20 minutes with MS installed PC's in all that time. All the
computers I have personally owned or bought for others, 15 or
more, I've lost count, have been Macs. That said I do hope that
Vista succeeds. I don't care what others use, I made my choices
a long time ago and am happy with them. To the extent that
Vistas succeeds, and it will because the M$ die is cast and PC
users will have limited choices going forward, Apple will also
succeed because M$ will keep Apples feet to the fire and make
sure we Mac users continue to get an excellent product. So from
my view point hooray for Vista because OSX 10.5 will have to be
even better.
Posted by xxxmaxximusxxx (10 comments )
Link Flag
stranger still...
...that you would feel so defensive and hostile over an article describing what could be best described as a dubious lawsuit at best.

/P
Posted by Penguinisto (5042 comments )
Link Flag
Even Stranger
I guess then you and everyone that is for MicroXXXX, works for them, or at least has alot of stock in them. Just for your informatioin I have 2 computers on XP Pro and some on W2K. I also work as computer operator full time and part time for a some company that has several PC's (XP Home). So no I am not a MAC loser. LINUX is and will always be a more stable OS. Just ask anyone how often they need to reboot a LINUX or UNIX box compared to a Windows Box!!!!!! you fool!
Posted by kakphoto (18 comments )
Link Flag
Get a Mac!
For twice the price of a PC, you get a stylish, white brick w/o games or productivity software to show off to your friends.

Or you can upgrade your old Mac, but then all your (photo editing) software will stop working.

But, it makes you "hip". And you'll be able to edit lots of photos for your mom and aunt.
Posted by godam_registration (113 comments )
Link Flag
System requirements
"it was unreasonable of Microsoft to assume that every person to whom it was marketing Vista could understand the system requirements"....

Gees, why would you want to buy a computer if you don't know what you are buying? The advanced stuff in Vista is really for advanced users....

I suggest these morons should go to a Mac shop and get a "computer" that they can presumably understand...duh, atleast they can turn it on and login (maybe)...and look at the screen until it blanks out....
Posted by goodthingsinlifearefree (4 comments )
Link Flag
Class Action Lawsuits
I am waiting for a class action lawsuit against class action lawsuit firms for claiming they represent anyone other then themselves.
Posted by JJWhitney (32 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Best case scenario
The lawyers for the plaintiffs are going to start looking for a quick settlement...

In the best outcome for them all the "victims" in the class will get $10 voucher off of MS Windows or Office. The lawyers handling this will get $500,000 for "fees and expenses." That's if the class doesn't loose right away, since this is such a stupid claim. I think the class action against NVidia made much more sense, and they still lost right away.
Posted by sanenazok (3449 comments )
Link Flag
Nonsense.
You can't sue Microsoft for a vendor's marketing techniques. To meet the requirements of Microsoft's 'Vista Capable' program, all you need is a system that meets the bare minimum requirements for Windows Vista. Just because the machine can't run the premium edition does not mean that is is false advertising.

This is just another example of people trying to extort money because they are too stuipid or cheap to buy a higher-end system.

Additionally you cannot sue Microsoft because they are not the ones marketing computers. This is just more cannon fodder for the Microsoft Legal team. You wonder why these operating systems are so expensive... now you know.
Posted by Mr. Network (92 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Well...
MSFT sets the parameters and licenses the Windows logo for use in these marketing pieces, so MSFT is as responsible as the vendors. Of course, not like I agree with the lawsuit, but at least it's not implausible to sue Microsoft for this.

I remember when MSFT started the deisgned for "Windows 95" label program. To qualify for this, all you needed was a 386 with 4 MB of RAM. Running Windows 95 on that would have been PAINFUL.
Posted by sanenazok (3449 comments )
Link Flag
Somewhat agree...
When I purchased my notebook which was in July of 2006, the tech at BestBuy informed me that Windows Capable would be capable of running Vista when it came out. At that time, I really dont remember seeing any Windows Ready logos on any notebook or PC, had I seen them, I am more than sure I would have investigated the differenes at the time. A month, maybe 2 later, when I started to see Windows Ready logos, that's when I got knowledge of the differences, but was past the 30 day exchange, and was stuck with a graphics card that is no good to run Aero. This is dissapointing, because when purchasing my notebook, you always want to buy something that will be ready for future products, but in my case, have a product I wish I had not bought. I'm not sure who to blame; BestBuy or Microsoft, but I do feel that this whole Vista advertisement was somewhat missleading.
Posted by romo828 (4 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Re: Somewhat agree...
It's because of this particular reason and a few others that I always buy my PC with Windows installed by the OEM. I hadn't intended on getting a new PC this year but I spilled coffee on my old Dell and it would dead after that. So I ordered one with Vista pre-installed by HP. I must say its the best PC I've ever had and it runs way better than my old Dell which for some reason gave me problems from day one.
Posted by NPGMBR (281 comments )
Link Flag
Get a life
So why isn't Best Buy being sued? It's simply because Microsoft is the richest (cash reserves) company in the world. So what does that say about the motives of the "suitors"?
Posted by kentdanderson (3 comments )
Link Flag
I don't mean to be mean, but...
...you based a computer purchase decision on advice from a BestBuy tech? I can hear him now..."and we can customize that for you".
Posted by J_Satch (571 comments )
Link Flag
Somewhat agree
I wanted a new desktop and waited until January for that reason. I knew Vista was coming out. I wasn't even sure if I wanted the upgrade for my new pc. I was able to get it free as soon as it was available. I have yet to receive it and install it, so I am not sure what I will be in for. I am quite happy running XP Pro, but I do like the new stuff. I have a fairly new laptop, and I am not sure I can upgrade that one. I will have to research that.
It is so hard to know what you'll need before something is on the market. If you're able to wait you're better off, if not you sometimes get stuck. Unfortunately it seems that is what happened in your case.
Posted by smac92 (1 comment )
Link Flag
All the funtionality...
Requires a lot more than most are willing to get... MCE requires a larger hard drive and a tv tuner, possibly a HD tuner. A HT Tuner requires a HD antenna... or HD services. You expect microsoft to fine print everything just for MCE, let alone a whole OS?

Its like all those "Flex-Fuel" cars that are being sold... E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline mix) compatable, yet across the nation there are LESS THAN ONE THOUSAND places to fill them, of nearly 200,000 stations. Sue all the car makers next why don't you?

The "full functionality" requires a good deal of new technology. Glass can't be shown the way it is without shader model 2.0, so you have to have it unless you want an entire window semi-transparent. It requires that much video ram to run properly. End of story,

I hope the law suit backfires on the suer. Microsoft did right. Unless something is missing from the story.
Posted by timber2005 (720 comments )
Reply Link Flag
are stupid people now a protected class?
I don't understand how this could even be certified as a class-
action, unless failing to do your homework or read the fine print
somehow qualifies me for some group identity which can't be
discriminated against.

Not so! Stupidity crosses all ethnic & religious boundaries.
Whatever you may think of Microsoft's products, services or
advertising, you cannot expect them to protect consumers from
their own poor decisions.
Posted by reek722 (10 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Its stupid to make ignorant remarks.
I don't think that everybody posesses the 'obvious in depth knowledge' that you seem to. Sales people in certain stores have literally conned people into believing that thier pc's would be windows premium capable. You may be 'enlightened' but you have posted an ignorant remark. Not everyone is a computer fanatic.
Posted by kiefersbint (1 comment )
Link Flag
STUPID PEOPLE
they're not a protected class, they're the majority
Posted by minitrue (11 comments )
Link Flag
I agree...
How hard is it to go to Microsofts Web site and look up the information?

I mean, who can seriously depend on some sales associate at the electronics store to be totally up front; especially if they are getting paid commision? Heck, the sales associate would probably lose his/her job for not "pushing" the product on the consumer hard enough!

I was a sales associate ONCE, for a now out of business electronics/appliance chain, and I HATED it! They literally want you to FORCE the consumer into purchasing something they may or may not need/want! That is a bunch of BS!

If the "average consumer" does not take the time to seek the information or at least consult with a professional, then they get what they deserve!

That type of ignorance is in the same ball park with people who purchase a vehicle that is sold As Is and then try to get money back, or sue the dealer, because the car broke in half the next day!

LoL!

Ohhhh, America, America! The Land of the Frivolous! (Yes, I am American).
Posted by DemePoole (33 comments )
Link Flag
Why can't PEOPLE be responsible?
Why don't people (such as those in the class action suit) take responsibility for their own stupidy and ignorance and leave Microsoft alone? Learn what it takes to be part of the world today and don't try to get compensated for your own ignorance.
Posted by kentdanderson (3 comments )
Reply Link Flag
A simple answer, kentdanderson
It is not in the average human beings nature to be responsible. Then again, I am sure we have all fallen prey to that type of behavior at one time or another in our lives. I know I have.

Some people just "need" to have "someone" or "something" to blame for every little thing that happens or goes wrong.

In short, the world, as we know it, will not reach perfection until the Human Race is extinct.

A morbid conclusion, but logical.

End.
Posted by DemePoole (33 comments )
Link Flag
Fat, cause ate TOO much when on the computer...???
People will sue over anything these days... Next someone might sue cause they got fat by eating when on the computer, Thats no ones fault but the one that is eating too much, thats just like suing McDonald's cause you ate there food and got fat or because there coffee was to hot, isn't coffee meant to be hot??? Whats wrong with some people that don't take a stand for there failures???
Posted by scott15596 (5 comments )
Reply Link Flag
It's called...
Get rich quick! LoL!
Posted by DemePoole (33 comments )
Link Flag
Sue others over your own mistakes
Maybe someday a person will sue his or her school system because they let him graduate even though he doesn't know the difference between "there", "their", and "they're." He'll probably apply for a job and not get it due to his lack of spelling and gramatical errors. Instead of realizing that he could have taken the extra 5 seconds to learn, or to at least review his work, he'll just sue the school system.
Posted by mikeburek (418 comments )
Link Flag
Again it proves Microsoft is Deceiving the World
To those that say to leave MicroXXXX alone, bull!!!!
The only way I learned of Vista's problems is by reading the CNET Articles. Though I have no plans to "upgrade" any time soon. There is not enough new Technology to warrant it. Also just to get a real upgrade you have to go to the "Super Duper" version of Vista, and spend double the money you really need to. IT'S TIME WE ALL UPGRADE TO LINUX!!!!!!!!
Posted by kakphoto (18 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Upgrade to Linux. . . if only it were not so painless and useless
I've got a thinkpad x24. Yep - at least 3-4 maybe more years old. It could be upgraded to Vista. . . it would run vista like all ****, but it would work. On the other hand, if I wanted linux to run on this machine. .. hahaha, I'd have to be prepared to work through days of finding the right drivers, configuring stuff, writing script files, etc. Until I can install linux the same way I do windows - pop a CD into my drive and let it run then NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE but click yes and ok, I think not. I already have little free time as it is and cannot spend that time having to debug an OS and device incompatibilities in addition to my own code.
Posted by zboot (168 comments )
Link Flag
Not Microsoft..
Beta versions were readily available to anyone considering an upgrade so no one has an excuse (it ran pretty good on my PC (hated the new look though)). Linux is a good OS but too many people owning Windows based PCs shouldn't even own a PC, let alone a Linux based PC.
Posted by trapper1964 (14 comments )
Link Flag
Speaking from no experience
I would advise that you may want to research the various versions of Vista available before making such comments. You'll find there are different levels of the product offering different options. There is no need to purchase Ultimate if Enterprise will meet your needs.
Posted by Vegaman_Dan (6683 comments )
Link Flag
You mean, waste 25% of our lives on Linux?
Anyone who downgrades their computer to Linux will have to deal with ten times the bugs, security holes and driver problems.

If an MS engineer can't deal with those problems in Windows, why would you expect that a high-school programmer would?
Posted by godam_registration (113 comments )
Link Flag
Tools were already able to asses that
They complain that they were being mislead by Microsoft because their PC could not run Vista Basic.

Did they even bother to use the Vista Upgrade advisor before doing this. Oh yeah, they do also have a website to tell you about all of the different versions of Vista and the features that they will allow.

This lawsuit comes as a result of not making use of information and tools made available before making a big decison. And how long were these available BEFORE Vista came out? These were also available during the beta testing too.
Posted by KZGY1024 (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Re: Tools were already able to asses that
How were they supposed to run Vista Upgrade Advisor on their computer BEFORE they bought the computer? And once they bought it it is too late.
Posted by fongchowpay (1 comment )
Link Flag
Taking the time
I think they took about as much time as you did to read the whole story. The lawsuit is about someone who _bought a new computer_ with Windows XP and was told it could run Vista. I'm not quite sure what stores you shop at, but none around here let you take a system home before you buy it to test it out and run the Vista Upgrade Advisor or to install the beta before paying for the system.

It appears that the suit is because the person did "[make] use of information and tools made available before making a big decison." His information was the sticker that said "Vista Capable."
Posted by mikeburek (418 comments )
Link Flag
Available how?
I went to the Windows Vista sight, where you have four "big
buttons" links to choose from: See; Learn; Choose; Buy. None of
these say anything about an Upgrade Advisor.
I had to click on each link and it wasn't until I clicked on the
"Buy" link that I found the Advisor.
Who would click on BUY to just get advice?? As always, Microsoft
has created one of the least intuative websites (much like their
products) ever!
And since the consumer was buying a NEW computer, how were
they supposed to get to the website? Their only information
would have come from the store sales people, and since you
can't expect a low wage sales person to somehow magically
know every single product to the degree that you apparently
need in order to understand the convoluded Vista marketing
strategy, who else could be responsible? When a product is
advertised as "capable" yet is found to be "incapable", you
should expect a lawsuit. The responsibility is Mcrosofts, not the
store, and most definitely not the consumer!
Posted by macvswindows (25 comments )
Link Flag
*shrug* dubious lawsuit at best.
I'm not exactly MSFT's biggest fan here, but I gotta say that the lawsuit doesn't seem to have much merit here.

There was an "upgrade advisor" out long before there was Vista's launch, and Microsoft has notoriously understated its system requirements, so... ***?

Before the MSFT fanbois start yammering, notice how the minimim requirements of most makers --as stated-- are just enough to run the OS, not the OS + apps.

IMHO, if anybody deserves to get put in the docket, it's likely the schmucks at (insert big-box retailer here), for glossing over the details more often than not, and the OEM's for slapping "Vista Ready" and "Vista Capable" stickers all over their stock in an attempt to push boxes out the door during Christmas season.

I mean, cripes... as an example: even the latest Linux kernel versions can run itself and perhaps a few apps on an old 486 DX-66 w/ 24MB of RAM, but I certainly wouldn't claim that it was actually useful for Joe Sixpack at those h/w specs, any more than I would recommend OSX 10.4 for a G4/500 w/ 64MB of RAM (even though IIRC those are roughly the min. req's for OSX).

/P
Posted by Penguinisto (5042 comments )
Reply Link Flag
correct..
Anyone who purchases the OEM trash (emachines, compaq, HP, etc) sitting on the shelves in the economy stores shouldn't own a computer. Just a bunch of parasites going after who has the most money.
Posted by trapper1964 (14 comments )
Link Flag
For once I agree with Penguinisto
Linux is actually ideally suited for running on underpowered systems where performance isn't an issue for servers or other uses that aren't CPU or system intensive.

Games- well, it's kinda fun to read the minimum specs on any game today. Sure, it will run with *this* level of hardware, but in order to use the game with all the bells and whistles turned on and be actually playable, you'll need to upgrade to *THAT* level of hardware.

For anyone who asks me about memory requirements for Vista on a laptop, I tell them that technically it only needs 512Mb. To make Vista happy, you really want at least 1Gb. To make YOU happy, get 2Gb.

Wow. I actually agree with Penguinisto. What's the world coming to?
Posted by Vegaman_Dan (6683 comments )
Link Flag
Yeah, a Nuisance Lawsuit at Best
Here's a perfect example of a frivilous lawsuit in action, filed most likely by a liberal lawyer who hates the establishment. You know the kind, like that ambulance chaser called Mr. Edwards.
Posted by WJeansonne (480 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Talk About False Advertising
Why doesn't this lawyer file a class action suit against the developers of Linux for stating that it was free all these years. That must have been the largest false advertising campaign in history. You notice how all of the purveyors of Linux dropped that ridiculous mantra after grabbing market share, which is declining now, LOL. Once users found out the true cost of ownership and its cumbersome nature, they are dropping it like a hot potato!
Posted by WJeansonne (480 comments )
Reply Link Flag
You can't sue Open Source
The neat thing about Open Source software is that you can't sue it because there is no one party that takes responsibility for it when it goes wrong.

Unfortunately it's also one of the reasons it won't be taken seriously in the business world because again, there's no one party that can be responsible for it either. :/

For good or bad, you take your chances with it.
Posted by Vegaman_Dan (6683 comments )
Link Flag
Talk about Willful Ignorance
Linux is free. Go download it right here:

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.kernel.org" target="_newWindow">http://www.kernel.org</a>

Or, you can get entire distros for free, right here:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://fedora.redhat.com" target="_newWindow">http://fedora.redhat.com</a>
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://opensuse.org" target="_newWindow">http://opensuse.org</a>
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.ubuntu.com" target="_newWindow">http://www.ubuntu.com</a>

So, umm... you were saying?

/P
Posted by Penguinisto (5042 comments )
Link Flag
Haw haw haw - another stupid astroturfing comment from WJeansonne
If you represent the Microsoft community, you're doing your part to look Linux look like the smart choice.
Posted by fcekuahd (244 comments )
Link Flag
Talk About False Advertising
Why doesn't this lawyer file a class action suit against the developers of Linux for stating that it was free all these years. That must have been the largest false advertising campaign in history. You notice how all of the purveyors of Linux dropped that ridiculous mantra after grabbing market share, which is declining now, LOL. Once users found out the true cost of ownership and its cumbersome nature, they are dropping it like a hot potato!
Posted by WJeansonne (480 comments )
Reply Link Flag
"You fool" comment negates all
Your opinion is just that. Calling someone a fool because their mind thinks differently than yours just erodes your validity.
Linux &#38; unix aren't really viable commercial alternatives to Windows or Mac for the average computer user. I only reboot my 4 different XP SP2 computers when i do (un)installs or when they've been up for many days &#38; just feel like rebooting. So my experience with XP is good- that doesn't make me a fool.
Posted by dahnb (49 comments )
Reply Link Flag
I agree...again!
Anyone who is into IT KNOWS that when an "average" user has computer problems it is usually something the user did to cause it!

Like, for example, coming across the Program folder and actually DELETING stuff from it instead of using the UNINSTALLER for the program!

LoL!

OR installing poorly designed/programmed software from some person/company that no one has ever heard of!

OR just simply failing to ACTUALLY READ the instructions! Etc...Etc...Etc...

When will the MaDnEsS end!? Hopefully not soon, because there is a lot of money to be made off of the "average" computer user!

:-)

End.
Posted by DemePoole (33 comments )
Link Flag
LoL!
Who didn't see this coming?
Posted by DemePoole (33 comments )
Reply Link Flag
You don't put a Porche engine in a junk car...
...why would you think of buying stripped down hardware to run an engine you have no idea will fit the mounts (drivers). MS did its job describing all that was necessary to upgrade. Vista Basic is basic windows with a pretty new face. But anyone who was foolish enough to buy lightweight hardware, got lightweight Vista.
Posted by Phil Moore (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
basic seems to describe this suit
I build computers. I'm no rocket scientist, but if I see something listed as "basic requirements" I can figure that more is needed to run higher functions. Or maybe, looking at this suit, I am a rocket scientist. More whining to get something for free just because people expect everything to be done for them, no need to use the brain we all are born with.
Posted by adamtp1 (3 comments )
Link Flag
Parody Post...Will turn that frown upside down!
Monochrome monitor from bargain bin: $10

Pentium II computer with "Made for Windows 95" sticker on the front: $75

Windows Vista Ultimate purchased off of Ebay: $999 with FREE shipping!

The look on your face when the sh*t doesn't work: PRICELESS!

:-)
Posted by DemePoole (33 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Vista Capable
I really hate to defend Microsoft on this one, but if it will run Vista Basic, then labeling a computer system Vista capable is a true statement. Anyone that knows anything about computers at all knows that Vista requires a pretty beefy computer to run all of the available features. For those that don't know that, break out your Remington Rands!!!
Posted by ironhead3fan (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Understanding Needed.
Sure computers can be branded as vista capable, but what about white box or high end machines that are more than vista capable (or ready) for that matter? High End or Custom should support everything the new OS touts, yet its not. I think this is what the point of the article was referring to.

There's even a hint of a CNET video that consisted of a high end machine not being able to run/have BitLocker, something that should naturally free-run rather than be restricted.
Posted by Indigo_Blue_X (15 comments )
Link Flag
Buyer beware - MS claims are always ?
I'm amazed that anyone believes all the hype from MS with respect to it's software. Anyone who buys any software from anyone needs to start reading the terms of the license and conditions. I read it first and clearly determined I couldn't agree to them so I never bought it. If you go out and buy a car without taking the time to read the finance or terms of conditions with respect to warranty, you really need a wake up call. Does anyone really do that ? If you buy it, install it then you had to agree to the terms of the license, so what do you want from me, sympathy ? Time to get a reality check as MS is in the game for one reason to make as much money as they can, any way they can, which includes protecting it's products in the best way it can including a major time and money inconvenience to anyone buying it. MS is NOT responsible for anything nor does it guarantee nor imply any warranty or guarantees in any way. Now here is some food for thought, Vista is the most secure Windows OS ever which implies it's secure, right ? Well, why is MS flogging Onecare with Defender ? They could have made it part of Vista ...No ? No way, money first and even then there are no guaratees or warranties. Are you getting this ? The public just amazes me as to how naive and wail after they've been exploited and all because they don't want to read the terms of the license.
Posted by intrepi (67 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Different point of views
There are two main point of views here. Microsoft call the underlying structure of the new OS "Vista." Many consumers call the Aero interface "Vista." Microsoft's idea is like when they said Windows 2000 was built on NT code. And so is Windows XP, if I remember right. But the W2K interface is very different from the XP interface which is different from the NT interface. So using the NT, W2K, and XP names by engineers to describe the code base coincides well with the consumer using those names for the visual interface.

I do not have personal experience with Vista on many different machines, but it seems that the version you buy gives you the options, but if you get to use those option depends on the hardware. It's like buying a 400-hp car. Sure it can do 200 mph, but if the speed limit is on 55, then the 200 mph really doesn't matter.

The Vista package you get is the raw horsepower and the hardware is your speed limit. If you have a slow system, then no matter what car/Vista you get, you can only go so fast/get certain feature to turn on. Many consumers don't see/understand/know about those differences.

Maybe the ads should show "Vista" blocking spyware, and then show a "+ fast graphics card = Aero", and also a "+ high speed flash drive = fast start up time."
Posted by mikeburek (418 comments )
Reply Link Flag
One clarification
Good comments, but one clarification.

Win2K was based off of NT, but XP actually came from the consumer code base (95,98,Me), because the more server centric architecture of NT make consumer applications compatibility very difficult. To this day, there are many applications that skipped Win2K and moved straight to XP.
Posted by adlyb1 (123 comments )
Link Flag
Mascots were put on this earth to AMUSE and Entertain...
...Not to be taken seriously.

You just like sticking your foot in your mouth, don't you? LoL!

For one thing, Win2003 is SERVER software. The AVERAGE home user is not going to be running Win2003 unless they have absolutely no idea what they are doing or got a really bad deal on EBay. I guess what I am trying to say is this: Why the heck you talkin' about Windows Server 2003 in a forum that has nothing to do with servers? Oh, I can answer that question! It is just another one of your pitiful attempts to make a point that has no point.

The article in question here is MS being sued, because people are not taking the time to do their homework. Actually, it is nothing more than a bunch of twisted lawyers trying to wring a quick buck out of Daddy Gates' wallet. Gates could shut these morons up with HALF of his fortune and STILL have enough left over to BURN. Heck, he would have more money left over than most people would ever make in 1,000 life times!

Also, when someone purchases a NEW computer it comes with ALL the software that computer needs to make it "work". If someone wants to upgrade by adding extra peripherals and devices then that is their own personal problem. You don't need an iPod attached to your computer to make it work.

Why does it even matter how many drivers need to be installed? Everyone knows that Windows will need a driver for a particular device sooner or later. Everyone knows that the GENERIC drivers that are included in WinXp's driver database are not going to give that device the exact same functionality as a driver from the actual OEM. Oh, wait, the AVERAGE user probably isn't going to know that or take the time to seek out the information. That is the difference between people who understand technology and those who don't. People like us (and I am in no way implying that we are anything alike) will take the time to seek information so we won't end up toasting our systems, but the average computer user will try to do something like burn a DVD-Rom in a CD-Rom and then wonder why it doesn't work.

In any event, you have once again failed to contribute anything useful to the Technology community at large. Your world must be very, very small indeed; especially if every argument you make is Linux based. We are TALKING about WINDOWS here, not Linux. Linux makes a good server, but that's about it (I couldn?t resist).

Now go play with yourself, my little penguin mascot.

:-)

End.
Posted by DemePoole (33 comments )
Reply Link Flag
...so whose mascot are you, then? ;)
Because you sure do pour a lot of effort into saying basically nothing...

/P
Posted by Penguinisto (5042 comments )
Link Flag
Very good point, mikeburek!
I totally understand what you mean!

The only thing, though, is that marketing doesn't work that way. Take car commercials, for instance. They CLAIM you can get 0% APR, but what they don't SAY is that you must have spotless credit. Instead they put it in words so dang small, at the bottom of your television screen, that you need a Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass to even read it; or they say it so fast that you need slo-mo hearing to understand what the announcer is saying.

Another example is toy commercials. I believe it was in the 90's when there was a big thing about people ACTUALLY thinking that a GI Joe action figure could walk, talk and shoot fake little missles out of fake little missle launchers. Now how IGNORANT is that? I believe lawyers tried to sue toy companies back then, too, over "false advertising". I may have it a little mixed up, but this actually did happen! I once dated a girl whose mother thought that images could ACTUALLY project out of a CRT monitor (in 3D) like in the advertisements for some 3D graphics cards! How crazy is that!? LoL! Oh, man! I got a good laugh out of that one when it was told to me!

There is rarely any "truth" to advertising. Companies will do what they can to get their hands on your hard earned money and usually offer very little in return; except for a product that will cost even more money to repair when it eventually breaks down; but, hey, that's what they $1,500 extended warranty is for, right?

I believe that it is ultimately up to the consumer where they choose to spend their money. No one likes to get or feel ripped off, but when a person doesn't research a product that is usually what ends up happening. How hard is it to pick up a copy of Consumer Reports and find out if a product is worth spending hard earned money on? I don't feel sorry for people who don't do their homework. However, I do feel it is wrong if a company or person INTENTIONALLY and BLATANTLY misleads consumers into thinking and/or believing that a product is the Next Best Thing when all they are really selling is a ton of junk. In my opinion, Microsoft is not guilty of misleading consumers. If a computer can boot Vista all the way to the desktop without it crashing, then that computer is "Vista Capable". It might crash 5 minutes later, but oh well!

I don't know where everyone else is from, but I live in America. America is capitalistic. Rich people want to go on getting richer, not go in the opposite direction. Companies depend on the ignorance of the average person to continue filling their piggy banks day after day and year after year.

If people really wanted to make an impact then they would simply boycott Big Business and hit them where it hurts. Then again, the average American just HAS to have that new iPod mini, or nano, or whatever it is called, so that is not going to happen any time soon.

End.
Posted by DemePoole (33 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Different Points of View (take 2)
I hope MSFT has to pay a lot - and I mean tons that'll hurt even them. It's far more critical than the "maybe" and "wishy washy" Viacom / Google suit because MSFT's "goods" alone are proof in any court of law in our country (except those courts located in Washington state of course). Vista is not Vista - it's that simple. Vista home thru SMB versions are Vista. Vista ULTIMATE and Vista ENTERPRISE are completely different operating systems than the baby versions - and not just the touted Aero GUI etal but the encrypted HD etal as well - these two latter versions, in order to be optimised, require huge investment in new ancillary software most of which is not yet available and the well-discussed hardware upgrade premiums. And BTW the user has no idea about the degree of the hardware upgrades until one ..well.. uses Ultimate or "Enterprise". On the latter, a good plaintiff attorney in court might well open with this question: "Mr. Ballmer, we're considering an enterprise software upgrade for our large law practice. But we're a bit confused over the difference between what you folks call Vista Enterprise and Longhorn Server. Can you help the jury understand in layperson's terms? Either Vista Enterprise with its customisation options is an enterprise OS or it is not. Because you folks would never deceive the public, I'm sure your brand mark on that OS is accurate. So why should my firm invest the huge amounts in Longhorn Server? Help the jury understand, please."
Posted by i_made_this (302 comments )
Reply Link Flag
No Mystery here
Vista Enterprise is a OS for an Enterprises WORKSTATIONS, Longhorn is a SERVER OS. Any IT person who can't figure that out really needs to change their line of work.
Posted by PzkwVIb (462 comments )
Link Flag
No Mystery here
Vista Enterprise is a OS for an Enterprises WORKSTATIONS, Longhorn is a SERVER OS. Any IT person who can't figure that out really needs to change their line of work.
Posted by PzkwVIb (462 comments )
Link Flag
Apples and Microsofts
being an apple person, i find this a tad stupid. People sue over anything in the US. GOD! Be responsible for you self and what you buy dumb ass! Its like that ipod suit a few years ago that the volume gets too loud, um don't turn it all the way up dumb ass! Didn't your momma teach you anything?
Posted by orbital318 (34 comments )
Reply Link Flag
 

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