Microsoft: Legit Windows or no updates

Aiming to crack down on counterfeit software, Microsoft plans later this year to require customers to verify that their copy of Windows is genuine before downloading security patches and other add-ons to the operating system.

Since last fall the company has been testing a tool that can check whether a particular version of Windows is legitimate, but until now the checks have been voluntary. Starting Feb. 7, the verification will be mandatory for many downloads for people in three countries: China, Norway and the Czech Republic.

In those countries, people whose copies are found not to be legitimate can get a discount on a genuine copy of Windows, though the price varies from $10 to $150 depending on the country.

By the middle of this year, Microsoft will make the verification mandatory in all countries for both add-on features to Windows as well as for all OS updates, including security patches. Microsoft will continue to allow all people to get Windows updates by turning on the Automatic Update feature within Windows. By doing so, Microsoft hopes it has struck a balance between promoting security and ensuring that people buy genuine versions of Windows.

"We think that the best foundation for the most secure system is genuine software," said David Lazar, director of the Genuine Windows program at Microsoft. "We want to urge all of our customers to use genuine software. (At the same time), we want to make sure that we don't do anything to reduce the likelihood that a user will keep their system up to date."

The program, known as Windows Genuine Advantage, also offers perks to those who verify their copy of Windows. Those who do can get free software as well as discounts on other Microsoft products and services. Microsoft is upping the ante a bit, adding some additional discounts on MSN Games as well as on the company's recently announced Outlook Live subscription service to the existing list of benefits, which includes free access to the company's Photo Story 3 program.

Customers do appear to be interested in double-checking the status of their operating system. Some 8 million people have been asked to participate in the program since testing began, and more than 5 million have taken part.

And those numbers have come with very little recruiting on the part of Microsoft, Lazar said.

"More and more we will be marketing the offers to broaden the participation," he said. "People do like free stuff."

Piracy is a major problem for Microsoft and others in the software industry. One software industry study estimated that more than

[Sonny Lyon]

Microsoft's Real Windows Operating Sys.

Microsoft is right in expecting all to have a real, authentic operating system, but we the customers should get a complete system in the box we buy.
Recently I tried to get some files for my op. system and microsoft said that individual files were not avalable and that most shipments are not 100 % complete but that all have enough files to function.
They refered me to a manfactur who had a gold copy of the system...but I bought mine in a box...
People expect the real thing too!

[mortis9]

gold copy?

what the hell are you talking about? gold copy of what? what files won't copy/work? nothing you said made any sense whatsoever. there are different versions of windows (i.e. xp: home, pro, slimmed down). nothing incomplete. what nonsense are you talking about?

[PolarUpgrade]

You likely have a manufacturer disc

I think what you refer to is a PC with a restore disc that provides just the drivers etc for the PC as shipped. it is a working image that altough it looks like Windows is restore merely is the installed image of the PC at shipment.

Not all PC makers provide a full Windows disc, and sometimes the restore option is nothing more than a frail disc image on a hidden drive partition.

Solve your driver issue by looking up the device drivers for the included hardware at the hardware makers' Web sites. Download these and burn to CD or DVD. Then, when you get new accessories, get the latest drivers direct from the component makers' Web sites as well.

Very often there is NO full Windows CD you can get and if you want one a FULL PRICE Windows purchase in a store is the only option. XP Pro here in Canada is about $600 so be prepared to bleed for it if you want it (XP Home is about $300 in Canada).

I agree that MS has a right to secure the product, but I feel what is really going is that they are trying to make extant PCs scarcer in order to drive new OEM PC sales. Which of course means more new Windows copies force-sold to users.

MS I think wants to CHARGE FOR WINDOWS but has an ultimate goal of not actually syupplying the full Windows CD to any customer. Ironically, PC users are gonna be bled hard for full Windows but with the partial install approach LS now favors may never see that full Windows despite having paid for it with a new PC.

[xmit30]

time to switch to a Mac

It is a very simple solution. Just switch to an Apple computer.

[mortis9]

moron!

apple has issues with piracy as well. they've sued how many people in the past year on such issues?

[shoffmueller]

But don't steal it

Switch to a Mac cuz you like the product, not so you can steal it easier.

[hadaso]

Try Knoppix (then switch to Linux?)

I don't think that M$ "loses" the figure stated due to piracy. Most of the people not paying for Windows are not going to pay. They either will stick to the current version with no updaet or switch to something else that's free. M$ making it harder to keep pirated Windows up to date will drive more people to Linux, which would be good for Linux that needs more users.

Meanwhile, anyone that just wants to test Linux without having to switch or install anything can get Knoppix: It's a one CD distribution of Linux that's bootable from the CD. It doesn't require instalation and doesn't touch your hard disk (if you do not tell it to. AFAIK it can run on a PC with no hard disk, though I haven't checked if it's true). It just boots from the CD-ROM, creates a disk partition on RAM, installs on RAM and runs. (If you don't understand what I'm talking about: it uses only the computer's memory, and doesn't install anything on disk. After you remove it from the CD drive you get your old OS back the way that you left it.) I was amazed to see how in about 5 minutes it just installed itself without my having to do anything, including recognizing the hardware and instaling drivers, productivity software, games, etc. To do the same with Windows one has to go through about half hour of OS instalation, with several reboots, then for each piece of hardware install drivers from the vendor's CD (usually requiring a reboot for each), and then install all the applications such as Office from their own CDs.

Just try it! All you have to do is download the CD image, burn it, put it in the CD drive, then reboot from the CD drive. And when you need your old OS back, just shutdown, remove the CD, and turn your computer back on!

[201293546946733175101343322673]

And then what?

Getting robbed by Steve Jobs? Give me a break.

[Not Bugged]

Cherry is clueless

"Cherry likened the situation to buying a fake Rolex and then expecting warranty service if the product breaks." How clueless can you be?! He totally misses the fact that there is no such thing as a "fake" WinXP. In the digital world copies are exactly the same as the original. It is silly to separate these users from the ones that paid for the product. Thing is that Microsoft has the public responsibility to provide users of their products with at least security fixes given the appauling security track record of their products. Microsoft continues to create very insecure products and should take responsibility for it and fix it. Period. After all *without* Microsoft Windows how much spam do you think you would get? How many trojans would try to compromise your system? How many virii would try to spread? Exactly, bar none.

So why continue to feed the fat bankaccount of Bill Gates. You don't get much in return do you? Or do you like trojans, virii, spam and a system that is very insecure? Any sane person should have to feel very uncomfortable to store their valuable information on a Mcrosoft system and so should you.

By now the smart people have switched to Apple or Red Hat Linux. And they laugh at those poor people still under the expensive spell of Microsoft.

[Jeff Putz]

Customers... not users

You say: "Thing is that Microsoft has the public responsibility to provide users of their products with..."

Wrong. They are responsible for delivering product to *customers*, not *users*. There's a difference.

And last I checked it's not a crime to make money. That's capitalism. If it offends you that Microsoft makes money, by all means, go stock up on your open source stuff.

[wrwjpn]

This Great!!!!

Now this will give people more reason to move to an alternative, whether it is Mac OS X, Linux or some other OSS. There will be some MS lemming that will differ in opinion, but tell people that they have to pay again for a bogus OS that they paid for in the first place and they will think again. I don't mean a buggy, vulnerable to virii, trojans and worms, as well as to spyware OS, but one real OS they had thought they had paid for.

This is the beginning of change whether for OSS or Mac, it will change. Be forewarned!!!

[Migraine]

Cost of Windows is To High!

If MS want's to cut down the number of stolen copies they should bring the price of XP Pro down some 300.00 a copy is way to much, and most of all Home users should not "AND MOST WILL NOT" have to pay 300$ for each copy....Many MANY Homes have more than 1 PC That could add up to over 900$ in O S software for one Home...

MS should Give Users at least a 5 system license!

Why THE US Goverment has not done something about Microsofts SKYHIGH Prices I do not know???

But Till MS Prices come back down to earth people will be making copies you can count on it.

James Farmer
[e-mail]

[DarthGuybrush]

Single PC - XP Home...

MS SQL Server 2000 SP3, Macromedia ColdFusion MX 6.1x Enterprise, Macromedia Studio MX 2004, Macromedia JRun 4.0x, Adobe Acrobat Professional 6.0x, running happily on a modest 512Mb AMD Athlon 2800+ with Windows XP Home Edition purchased with system for about AUD$160.00. (Oz Dollars)

So the OS itself cost next to nothing compared to the software like SQL Server or Studio MX - many thousands of dollars.

How much do you spend on YOUR operating system compared to the software programs you run on said OS?

[Dan Dautrich]

Agreed!

Hallelujah to that!

I rarely purchase ANY software over $40 unless absolutely necessary. I understand that Microsoft puts lots of effort and research and time into their product, but an affordable mass-market price point is a must--especially considering how buggy and vulnerable security-wise their products are. Would you purchase a new car with a lock that your kid brother could pick open with his fingernails? Would you buy a new home with saran wrap for windows? At least give us our money's worth if you're going to gouge us for Windows.

It's just like video game consoles... they come out at $200+ when they first launch and they will sell, but they don't really get the huge sales numbers until they come down in price to something that normal people can afford. I think the original PlayStation has an installed base in about one out of every two or three homes in the US. Why? Because they're dirt-cheap now!

Besides, this is Microsoft we're talking about--what does a few million dollars of lost revenue to piracy matter to the richest monopoly in the world?

Absolutely agree with that.

Definitely - Microsoft Windows is too damn expensive. A company with such huge resources and profits can surely put their OS out at a reasonable price.

If the price was dropped by a few hundred dollars, more users would be inclined to pick up a legit copy and save a lot of hassle.

Fix the PRICE!

Again an article that totally miss the point of piracy. Why do we have priacy? Because the PRICE is too high. People still find it worth all the trouble to find and use pirate copies.
It's naive to think that hard copy restrictions will force customers to pay instead. Some would, but the large part would simply not use the product. If they want to earn more, fix the price not the copy restictions.

[System Tyrant]

People will pirate anything that isn't free.

You've got one thing right, price is why people pirate software. Until everybit of software is free pirates will always be there. I hate to say it, but if they want to stop piracy or at least put a huge dint in it, they are going to have to give away software and charge for updates and support.

I don't know if that will be any better, but as long a software cost money to buy people will steal it. Simple truth.

to support this statement

I think the most hilarious thing about this article is, "In those countries, people whose copies are found not to be legitimate can get a discount on a genuine copy of Windows, though the price varies from $10 to $150 depending on the country."

I still dont understand how there can be such a price difference from country to country...

[Jeff Putz]

BMW's are too expensive. I'm going to steal one.

If the price is so high, don't buy it. Microsoft, like any business in the world, puts out a product and expects to be paid for it. Why is it that people think high-priced software is OK to steal but wouldn't dream of stealing a television or a car? Should those be free too?

[Sboston]

hmm

So lets say that MS lowers the price to $40.00 (us). Wow! That is great right? Meanwhile Joe Smoe says he can sell it to you for $5.00 (us).

Which way will you jump? Of course Mr. Smoe doesn't tell you that it is pirated.

[musikman47]

Absolutely!!

You hit it right on the head!

[DarthGuybrush]

Give them a break

We ask a lot of Microsoft. All they ask is that we pay for the software we use. For the OS that is a no-brainer but add on top of that products from Macromedia, Adobe, Symantec etc. Without dollars these companies will not survive.

If you stop buying their software how can you expect (or demand) support? If you do not pay for it at all - what then?

Hear hear for any company that asks that the software you are using was puchased legally (or you can prove ownership).

Do the right thing and you have nothing to worry about.

Oh and I love Firefox but still need to use IE for Windows Update or Office Update. Apart from that I am strictly Firefox! Go Firefox!!!

[cousinkix1953]

Corporate Thieves

Microsoft decides how many times we can reformat our hard drive, activate windows XP again, and even register the OS under the name of the "original" owner. It will fail to work after a certain number of times. A proven fact of life!

Microsoft is ripping-off a paying customer when that day comes. I know this first hand. Don't lecture me about stealing from a super rich crooked bastard...

[DarthGuybrush]

Better check

I think "gold" is OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) and it would (should) not be able to be installed on any other system than what you bought it for. Win95 and Win98 systems were big on this.

Companies like IBM and Packard Bell are noted for doing this also.

[DarthGuybrush]

What is the real problem here?

Hey either your software, starting from the Operating System upwards, is legitimate or it is not.

If it is, no problem, if not then you have a problem.

I will stick with MS and Windows for a few reasons. 1) my OS was legally purchased, 2) give or take it is secure(ish) with third party support, 3) Studio MX is only available on Win/Mac at the moment, 4) I can't afford a Mac :)

[jypeterson]

Look at the Mac Mini for a second computer

Look at the Mac Mini. It is more than just the hardware (it is an entry machine--not a gamer or high performance, but it is good for the monney), it is the entire package. The software is unparalelled in the windows wold when it comes to movies, pictures, and music. You won't worry about your system being slowed by spyware, or viruses attacking your personal space. Buy the $499 box and upgrade the ram in the least. It will give you a great computer for under $600.

[My-Self]

An excuse for security flaws

Another bright microsoft idea.

Next time a serious windows vulnerability will be found & exploited, they'll have the excuse of pretending it's all because of pirated copies ...

Some things will never change, and some more people will change to either Linux on PC hardware or Mac OS-X.

[gggg sssss]

Why 10 dollars in China

If it is only worth $10 in China then why pay $300 here? If when you buy it from dell it is worth say $25 ( based on their low end bundle) why $300 when you buy from Best Buy. Sell if for $50, and no one will steal it. Obviously, the market value placed on it by MS is $10. Or is it like the music industry - steal enough and the industry will finally price fairly? And for the Mac twits - since OSx only runs on a Mac for which Apple has already extracted an inflated price from you, why should they bother with further restrictions? Get a clue.

A Genuinely Stupid Idea

The subject line says it all.

Given a marketplace that is increasingly obsessed with the flaws in the browser and operating system, the very last thing Balmer and company should want is to have millions of copies of unfixed code sitting on machines. Regardless of the economics of piracy, they have sufficient income and now they should be protecting marketshare, not by thumping the heads of the users, legitimate or illegitimate, but by fixing their own design mistakes.

This is a colossal blunder. The network effect will look like New Coke: just another way to amplify a bad rep.

[stringboy]

Strategy is All Wrong

MS goal is to have Windows dominate. Forcing people to another OS to be secure is not going to help them in the long run.

This is business strategy 101. To remain the on top you have to give more away than the other guy can afford, you must focus on the quality of your product, and you can copy your competition's innovations. Anything else opens the door for your competition. Gates and Balmer are killing a the fattest calf for short term goals.

[NWLB]

When the people are ready, the master will appear.

I won't switch to MAC, but Linux is looking more and more fun. The only thing that holds most people back is a lack of software. No, I'm not talking about practical apps and such. I'm talking about mainstream games.

If EA came out with its own version of Linux to support its own games, it would do more to advance wide-spread adoption of the OS. If the game companies got together and did that, it would go a long-way to killing Windows.

Things are advancing to a point where we could see a slow splintering of the OS base. If a Sony, EA, Mozzilla, AMD, and others were to combine in some combination, you could effectively fork Microsoft.

Not enough people are angry enough at Microsoft to truly make anything else a threat. But there are an ever growing number of computer literate geeks and users of such things as Firefox, that it will happen at some point.

Ironically, Apple still winds up on the short end of the stick in all of this the way they run things.

NWLB
***********
http://www.NWLbnet.blogspot.com

[TGallag69]

Gamers, Home users & Linux

I agree! If companies put out Linux and Mac versions of their apps & games for both of these OS's, I think it would hurt MS in the wallet.

It's the only reason I still use Windows.... Games and various applications that are PC only.

Put Half Life 2 or Doom 3 out for Linux & Mac and watch people start switching.

BTW- FireFox Rules! IE Sux!

This may cause issues

I'm curious on how this autheticity check will work. I have a situation in which may cause me a huge headache.

Where I am we have a batch of of 50 or so application servers which need to run Windows 2000 Pro (don't ask, its a software restriction), and when I needed to order licenses for these servers, I was told that I could no longer obtain 2000 Pro licenses, and that I would need to purchase XP Pro license, which also legally cover a 2000 Pro installation in its place.

I asked them what I should use as a product key for 2000 Installations as the XP key obviously would not work, they said to the effect, "You must find your own key for 2000 Installs, we dont care what it is as long as you install one instance of 2000 (or XP) for every XP license you own.". So what did I do?...I found a product key on the internet which worked with a copy of 2000 Pro, and I used the same key for all of my 2000 installs.

So whats going to happen now? I will likely no longer be able to update these servers, when I try, its likely going to see that I've used a key from the internet and deny updates for installs that I'm legally licensed to use, however since software cannot know this, I'll be fubarred in this process. Thanks Microshaft.

...to add

This is just one way that some companies may get screwed from this. I can't imagine how many non "standard", but completely legitimate setups may be affected by this dumb decision.

[emiliosic]

Virus writers rejoice

I have no problem with Microsoft wanting everybody to actually
buy their software: It's proprietary, for better or works they built
it and they should charge whatever they want (That's why I'm
writing this from a Mac).
The issue is that people will still want to copy Windows, and if a
security update won't install they'll rather skip rather than
spending what they don't have for a price they think is too high.
By the way, it I could buy Windows for say, $ 30 (Or a
comparable price on foreign economies), many people would
buy it instead, but again, they can charge whatever they want
(And I'll keep on saving time and money using Mac and Linux
servers).

[System Tyrant]

What about small business and corp users...

Has anybody thought about small business and corprate users? How much overhead will this create for them? What about businesses that don't have IT staff?

I work at a business that has 16 computers. How much time am I going to have to invest in verifing each copy of Windows? How much overtime is it going to cost my employer? But what about companies that have several hundred or even thousands of computers? Has Microsoft considered this?

...nope

Read my previous post...this is going to be a major headache for me. We are a team of 3 supporting a desktop environment of about 75 stations, and a server environment supporting roughly 180 servers. Fun times ahead.

[PolarUpgrade]

It's all about small business and corp users

The answer is of course they have likely considered it. MS in my humble view has imposed "validation" knowing full well that it is an opportunity cost all by itself.

It helps to make the purchase of all new PCs that much easier and less-time consuming, and of course when you are muscled to new PCs you PAY for a new Windows copy, and moreover given that full disc OEM Windows copies are now the exception, will have paid for a full Windows without ever seeing a full copy, other than the likley cut-down disc image of the NEW PC as delivered.

Welcome to the brave new world of trusted computing.

[Below Meigh]

Two Wongs don't make it Wight!

Microsoft saw the Chinese market as "1 billion Windows users equates to $300billion revenue in Windows OS users". But the Chinese saw it as "one copy of Windows for all at cost of nothing...dupe away!"
Besides, some clever hacker(s) will write a generator that will produce a number that IS legit.
heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some smart foreigner owns a few MS employees...money talks and BS walks...

[Willie Winkie]

Updates Can Be Pirated Too

1.Expect to see a lot of these updates circulated on the major P2P networks as soon as this process is put in place.
2.Expect a complete work-around within a month of implementation.
3. Expect a lot of unpatched machines to cause untold havoc to the Internet.
4. Expect Microsoft to re-learn that a certain level of piracy is unavoidable (even diesirable)if you want to maintain a total lock on the OS market.
5. Expect Microsoft to quickly backpeddle on this strategy or scrap its implementation alltogether.

Of course

I agree that most of those points will end up being case. It is however sad that this will create a lot work for a lot of companies, then when Microsoft will end up saying, "Oh, we realize now that this isn't such a great idea, you can all now get your updates like you can before" after it's costed corporations LOTS of time and money...not just on software, but man hours alone.

[gggg sssss]

should have olume license anyway

If you are still buying retail at that volume then you arent that smart a consultant/IT manager. Unless you are buying bundled from Dell then no problem anyway.

[System Tyrant]

New computers come bundled with OS.

Well in my town you can't buy a new computer without an os. According to some of them it is a law that all computers must be sold with an os. I don't know if thats true, but for me it kind of voids the need for volume licencing. Well, that and the fact I only have 16 computers in my office.

Now I do volume licence Wordperfect office (Don't bother trying to tell me Microsoft Office is better because you would be wrong).

why?

Why do they need more money? To fix bugs and flaws? To develop more software?

They are already sitting on billions of dollars, but yet can't fix bugs or secure their software. They are also buying up and developing more software then is really needed.

They need to be focusing on what is important, or face the evitable consequences.

[201293546946733175101343322673]

Why Not?

Why don't they need or want more money?