Man sues Microsoft over alleged Xbox 360 glitch

Proposed class action suit claims that in bid to beat rivals to market, company sold "defectively designed" product.

The story "Man sues Microsoft over alleged Xbox 360 glitch" published December 5, 2005 at 11:55 AM is no longer available on CNET News.

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[Bob_Barker]

So Basically...

This guy is saying, "Microsoft, pay me for not having common sense!"

The guy probably stuffed the console into his entertainment center on top of his receiver and under his cable box after he wrapped it in carpet so it wouldn't get scratched.

Unless he can prove it's faulty hardware there's no case.

[jattardi]

Not quite

That's an unfair generalization. There have been lots of reports of the Xbox 360 freezing up.

[System Tyrant]

Xbox 360

Well, I don't think they will probably have trouble finding defective hardware. I think what they have to prove is that Microsoft knowingly released a product that had these know problems.

I don't know much about law, but if less than 10% of the Xbox's (read that number somewhere) sold have the same problem I don't think he's got much of a case either. I would think that it would take a substantial amount of defective Xbox's to prove that Microsoft either knew the design was bad or the company that manufactured them had a faulty setup.

You know I don't like Microsoft all that much, but the lawsuits against them are getting pretty boring. It's kind of like the jokes about Bush. The first five were funny, but now it's just getting irritating. Oh, well, this is America and lawsuits have become apart of business.

[val31]

get a job!

This guy needs to quit playing games, get off his sorry a*s, and get a real job to obtain money instead of taking other hard working peoples money!GROW UP!!!!!!

[angryone]

Maybe Microsoft should have the commone sense

This is not the only complaint of over heating and not working. I am not saying anyone should get money (unless it causes a fire) but Microsoft should replace the units and everyone that gets a system that is not replaced or repair withing t weeks should get xbox live gold free for a year or a 75 dollar credit towards a game. We are going on the 3rd week of waiting to get are syetem sent out and replaced. THey have not even sent the return package.

[johnnyblaze513]

so basically no......

your wrong because i know 3 people who all have faulty xboxes b otch

[loki_racer]

Here's an idea...

Unplug the Xbox 360. Put it back in the packaging that it came in. Walk out to your car. Drive to the store wher you bought it. Go inside and return the product. Get back in your car and drive home.

Problem solved.

[Christopher Hall]

You must not be American!

In the US, we SUE when we have problems!

;)

[psychosmurf]

Well this is just silly. . .

1) I don't know of a single store who doesn't discourage or outright disallow hardware returns of this nature so your idea would be difficult at best to exercise.

2) NO store that I've ever shopped at allows the return of opened video game or computer software and believe me, I've shopped at a lot of stores: I own six game systems, five computers, 2200 DVDs, 800 CDs and 320 idividually purchased PC/Console games. I've had a bit of experience with purchasing and returning software. So even if he were to get the store to take the XBox back, he's stuck with useless games that run in excess of fifty bucks a pop.

3) It's a matter of principle. Hardware manufacturers must be held accountable for their actions. They CANNOT be allowed to release these items (Appled with it's iPod nano fiasco is another blazing example), charging these outrageous prices and then be simply slapped on the wrist when something this blatently obvious is wrong. This is something that could have easily been picked up in Quality Assurance were the QA done properly and yes I am a QA engineer so I'm well aware of the QA process for both soft and hardware.

I support this lawsuit but also I offer my suggestion of waiting a bit longer before running out and purchasing one of these consoles. Historically speaking, nothing is EVER released bug free.

[zaznet]

Or just use the warranty coverage provided.

Every single electronics device sold as new, has a warranty to cover defects. This individual could not have contacted Microsoft, shipped the device back, had it repaired and returned before he filed this action against them.

Failing to take the remedy that is readily available puts him in a hard position to push his case forward. Most likely Microsoft will settle this one out quickly rather than drag it on in court. If the guy doesn't take the settlement (that will be slightly more generous than the warranty coverage) then it will likely be thrown out of court and he's left holding a useless bit of hardware.

[ryonavin]

the way I see it..

Two things will have to happen for this to succeed. A) Microsoft will have to have made no attempt to help him with his defective product.. something I seriously doubt will happen.

B) As stated by another poster he will have to prove that Microsoft knew about this ahead of time and shipped anyway

[techguy83]

I agree with you

Except he probably didn't even call MS about it.

[Stan Johnson]

First smart comment

First smart comment

[aabcdefghij987654321]

More than two things

He's going to have to show it failing in court and woe to him if it works there. (A distinct possibility even if he's genuinely having problems at home since the problems he's having could be bad power or other local environmental problems).

[LandSteven]

Re: The Way I See It

I agree, good luck to this guy with pursuing this lawsuit (not that I agree with it). I personally have an Xbox 360 and it works great. Of course, mine is not stuffed into a cabinet with other electronic boxes and my power supply is sitting on the floor away from the unit.

Heat can be an issue with PCs, especially higher performing ones. Have any of you ever seen a real data center or server room? After all what these consumers are dealing with here is a small super computer in a console size case.

[zaznet]

Not enough time for him to have taken needed action.

He hasn't had enough time since release to have followed through with the warranty coverage. Failing to do that, puts the burden on him not Microsoft. This case will quickly be thrown out if not settled by Microsoft out-of-court with a slightly better than warranty offer.

All Microsoft has to do is say "Here, a replacement X-Box 360 for you and 2 new games" and if he doesn't take that the judge will easily scoff at him. It's cheaper for Microsoft to offer more than he has a chance to get in court than to fight him in court.

I do doubt that Microsoft will do a voluntary recall. I also suspect that the majority of issues are folks placing the X-Box 360 on top of an already hot compontent like their cable tuner.

Lots of thoughts.

Ever since the last "simple" console was released - which without brand preference I'd say was the Nintendo 64 - gamers have had to step up their caution.
Any system that boasted sophisticated rendering hardware has been fraught with first-release problems.
I'm sure we all remember the problems that many were having with their Playstation 2.

I too am getting tired of the blame and sue approach. I suspect many more people are just bearing through the issues rather than reporting them. Summer and the warmer weather that comes with it will expose those people and their complaints.

People should learn by now that Microsoft has no quality control. Especially after a product is released, they'd just rather not deal with you.
I do agree that they rushed the console to market, otherwise they wouldn't be having these problems.

Every console maker does this at some point or another though. It all boils down to buyer beware in the end.

Don't buy first revision consoles.

[Stan Johnson]

Second smart comment

Second smart comment

[Stork1]

The price for getting cutting edge tech...

...is that you run the risk of getting a system that may have problems with it. I remember a lot of my friends that got PS2s shortly after the launch ended up having to get new ones a year later due to the 'Disc Read Error' epidemic. There were others that also had to send in the Xbox's to get the DVD-Rom replaced, for free, due to them going bad. And look at the amount of PSPs that launched with screens that had dead pixels. These are just a couple of things I personally experienced in the launch of new consoles/game devices.

I seriously doubt neither Microsoft, Sony, & Nintendo would intentionally launch a system knowing that it has major design flaws. And at least if the problem ends up affecting enough consoles they usually replace things for free. (The Xbox had a year warranty with it)

[Christopher Hall]

Dead On

I was there at launch for the Dreamcast. 20% of all Sonic Adventure games shipped defective (I still have my "special edition," actually). I was there at Xbox launch. I still have (and use) the Xbox more than four years later. Ditto on PSP launch. I have three dead pixels and chances are most people couldn't find them unless I pointed it out.

Remember when Microsoft found out that the power cables on the Xbox were a fire hazard? They replaced all of them for free, and most of them shipped out with 2nd Day air. Microsoft's game division certainly cares about their customers, that much I'll say.

New system launches are NEVER perfectly smooth, I don't know why people keep forgetting this.

[Bill Dautrive]

re

The PS2 was never cutting edge. XBoX360 is not that great either.

The point is that these are slf contained systems, nothing like a PC. If they were properly testing, things like overheating would not be an issue(except is cases of extreme neglect).

[Awesomebase]

Common sense out the window

It is easy to dislike Microsoft, heck I use Apple products at home because I can't stand using PCs that stall, crash, don't "shut down" frozen applications when you tell them to, etc. However, this case won't even make it to court. The guy probably won't even get a replacement for his product if he doesn't return it in the time that it is warranted. He will spend a lot of money on a lawyer that promised that he will make big money, and all that will happen is that Microsoft will put their lawyers on the case and it will very quickly become evident that there is no case to go to trial with. There are a) not enough defective units to make this suit, b) no proof that Microsoft intended to produce a "faulty" design, c) no proof that they intentionally slighted quality control in favor of a faster market prescense, and d) that the actual design leads to the fault (as opposed to just quality control problems in manufacturing). No sane judge would even hear this case. The guy is better off saving his money and either returning the XBOX (which he has the option to do), or exchanging the XBOX (which he has the option to do). He can always get a PS3 if he is really upset.

[Stan Johnson]

I use a PC

I can't remember the last time my PC crash Mac boy.

[madgamur]

Message has been deleted.

[Bill Dautrive]

You are forgetting the fact,

That these units are slef-contained, they should never have overheating issues.

All these pointsw about PC's are way off base. Bad software can screw up hardware. Bad choice of installing Windows can affect performance. Adding too many peripherals in the case can cause overheating and power issues. XBox has none of these considerations.

Proper testing would have found many of these problems. So either:

1. MS found them and ignored them

2. They didn't test well enough

Either way they are on the hook for releasing crap.

[Below Meigh]

Debatable...

From what I know, there are about 7 or 8 folks on several forums that have had overheating (freeze is result) from machines that are in vertical position with the harddrive on top. Project Gotham Racing 3 seems to be a common denominator on a game that freezes after 30 mins of play. Other than that, we don't know if the units were store displays, the model/serial number sequence (man. date), etc. those that have contacted MS have received DHL return tags so MS is handling those that have contacted them.
I have seen production video (as far back as August) of the assembly line and packaging so I don't doubt these could be a few "acceptible" defects and will be remedied. But this could be a case that is unwarranted. Proving the MS deliberatly released defective goods to the public is going to be difficult. Especially if you go by forum posts from game sites.
How many feel that our tax dollars should go to some law firm that sees $$$$$$$ for settling to avoid bad press?
It is a new game machine and will ahve some growth pains, as all new products of this caliber, but a class action suit should be for last resort over unresolution by company that makes a product that was designed only to harm or mislead. MS is losing money on this new product, so I hope they fight it. And win. Dibs on the guys name for Live Gamertag!

Only because they are MS....

I work for a small manufacturing company. Actually, we import the product from overseas (like Linksys, Netgear, DLink, Iogear, etc). Say we move 1000 units of a product in a month. Say 100 come back for defects. That means 900 were good. Maybe there was a bad capacitor somewhere, a bad solder joint, or someone on the assembly line sneezed. Or maybe the QA guy fell asleep. Who knows. I sometime get calls asking why we sell defective product--human error, even if it goes down to one simple transistor. I'm pretty sure people buy Sony TVs that are bad out of the box (remember their Trinitron's when first released they had an overheating problem), or Nintendo's bad out of the box. It just means the consumer was unlucky to get a defective unit. No big deal. Nothing in the world is perfect. But for MS to know and distribute a hardware faulty product--highly unlikely right out the door. Later on they will probably realize--after some research on finding a common denominator for the issue--that Employee Joe ******* fell asleep at the QA desk for his batch.

This is how Lawyers make money...

My predictions:
Consumers will loose.
Microsoft will spend LOTS of money on lawyers to make it go away.
Nothing else will change, becaue they got away with it before [remember the US vs Microsoft anti trust case?]

[aherdofcats]

Bottom Feeder

The man should of known that there were going to be problems. He should have known that Microsoft would release something that had a problem (most new products do have their problems). I mean look at windows 98, 2000, and XP and also Xbox. What a bottom feeder and complete moran. These and the parents that are horrible at parenting and complain about thier children being too violent give gamers and gaming industries a bad rep.

[Stan Johnson]

take a look in the mirror

I personally happen to like the Windows OS very much. No crashes and software runs great and we have a larger market to choose from (many advantage over other OS being offered). I also think the XBOX was pretty darn good too. We bought ours in 2003 and it has alway been problem free.

[Jeff Putz]

Astounding mental capacity

I'm always astounded at the stupid things people will write regarding Microsoft, especially the stupid notion that "you should've expected it" because it's Microsoft. Like that Chinese worker putting the thing together has anything to do with the Windows software engineer working in Redmond. Don't be silly.

So many people, especially the few disgruntled idiots on some of the gaming forums, completely ignore that fact that this machine, like any consumer electronics device in history, is going to have a few defective units. The people who get them might be loud and rowdy, but they're still a fraction of a percent of the people who actually scored the damn thing.

I remember my first generation Gameboy developed a problem with the screen (the dreaded vertical lines). Nintendo fixed it and paid for the shipping. I had a Dell LCD monitor that was ghosting like crazy. They replaced it. I once had a Sony Discman (when they were still $300) that died. Sony replaced it. You buy enough electronic crap and sometimes you'll get units that don't work. Such is life. There is no credible data that suggests that this is a widespread problem with the Xbox 360.

[psychosmurf]

For Those Against The Lawsuit . . .

. . . consider this:

1) I don't know of a single store who doesn't discourage or outright disallow hardware returns of this nature so your idea would be difficult at best to exercise.

2) NO store that I've ever shopped at allows the return of opened video game or computer software and believe me, I've shopped at a lot of stores: I own six game systems, five computers, 2200 DVDs, 800 CDs and 320 idividually purchased PC/Console games. I've had a bit of experience with purchasing and returning software. So even if he were to get the store to take the XBox back, he's stuck with useless games that run in excess of fifty bucks a pop.

3) It's a matter of principle. Hardware manufacturers must be held accountable for their actions. They CANNOT be allowed to release these items (Appled with it's iPod nano fiasco is another blazing example), charging these outrageous prices and then be simply slapped on the wrist when something this blatently obvious is wrong. This is something that could have easily been picked up in Quality Assurance were the QA done properly and yes I am a QA engineer so I'm well aware of the QA process for both soft and hardware.

And the notion that this should have been expected because it's Microsoft is downright stupid at best. Because Microsoft is the company that redefined computer standards, I would expect a top notch quality product. Instead they release a blatantly defective piece of hardware.

And Mr. Putz there is PLENTY of credible data. Read the blogs.

[techguy83]

poor dennis, so confused

1) I don't know of a single store who doesn't discourage or outright disallow hardware returns of this nature so your idea would be difficult at best to exercise.

--> Call the product's maufacturer and report the problem is step one.

NO store that I've ever shopped at allows the return of opened video game or computer software and believe me, I've shopped at a lot of stores: I own six game systems, five computers, 2200 DVDs, 800 CDs and 320 idividually purchased PC/Console games. I've had a bit of experience with purchasing and returning software. So even if he were to get the store to take the XBox back, he's stuck with useless games that run in excess of fifty bucks a pop.

Step 2: If the unit is defective, they replace it. If you want your money back, you can usually convince a customer service rep to do so. As for the games if you do do this, sell them to others who have a working system, especially if you haven't opened the games. If you have opened them, there are several stores that take used games for money or for store credit (EB Games, Rhyno, etc...)Oh, and not to mention these last stores all have a 7 day return for full refund policy. I know. I use this policy when necessary.

It's a matter of principle. Hardware manufacturers must be held accountable for their actions. They CANNOT be allowed to release these items (Appled with it's iPod nano fiasco is another blazing example), charging these outrageous prices and then be simply slapped on the wrist when something this blatently obvious is wrong. This is something that could have easily been picked up in Quality Assurance were the QA done properly and yes I am a QA engineer so I'm well aware of the QA process for both soft and hardware. And the notion that this should have been expected because it's Microsoft is downright stupid at best. Because Microsoft is the company that redefined computer standards, I would expect a top notch quality product. Instead they release a blatantly defective piece of hardware. And Mr. Putz there is PLENTY of credible data. Read the blogs.

Ok, read these words: ALL electronic products have some design defect somewhere. Even large companies get defects. Look at Sony's mini-PS2 recall. Microsoft is replacing the faulty xbox 360s if the customer calls the number they gave out. And you cannot believe every Joe Schmo who posts in his blog. I hope I didn't shatter your idealistsic view of the internet there Dennis.

now, back to normal web browsing.

[Jeff Putz]

It must be true!

"And Mr. Putz there is PLENTY of credible data. Read the blogs."

If it's on the Internet, it must be true! Blogs are *always* factual, like Wikipedia! ;)

Get back to me when either MS or one of the zillion analysts that watch the company publish real numbers.

[capfan12]

lol

"Hardware manufacturers must be held accountable for their actions." how bout the same for stupid users whom don't read instructions and then post misleading informatoin on the net as a M$ failure?

i.e. oh it scratches disks, but i ignored the warning not to move the unit while it is running.

or the people who admit to having their power supplies carpets?

should blogers reporting false or misleading problem with equipment be held responsible as well?

[stshaver]

Get Real

Outrageous prices? You must not read the news much Microsoft is selling the new XBox at a loss. Hold them accountable yes, take it back and get a new one that's what warranty's are for correct? What planet are you from anyway, everything you purchase you expect to work perfectly? You must have never purchased a car, house, newspaper, or anything else in your life if you believe this. Quit whinning and get a real a life.

[Stargate005]

What a joke

I can't belive this, it is the bigget joke I have ever heard of. This guy is a joke. I have alot of choice words for stuck up people like this, but I wont say them here. People who sue for something they were just to stupid to try to return the dang thing, should be laughed out of the court. I would hate to rent this guy games, if I accidenly gave him the wrong one he would probably try to sue me for all I'm worth. I hate pathetic people like this. I'd have a few choice comment for this guy if I ever see him. I mean part of his sute is recalling all 360's!!!! I havent even got my 360 and becuase of this stupid greedy guy I may not have even got one !!!!! 8 ( I highly doubt this guy will win the case but just the fact that he tryed really makes me mad.

[KeblerelfKC]

My Experience

I was one of the folks that camped outside in 25 degree weather for 12 hours to get one on the launch day and mine broke last Thursday. At that point it had about 60 hours of play time on it and prior to the screen suddenly going black (while playing PGR3 in the horizontal position) I hadn't had any problems. Initially it seemed like a problem with the component HD cables since it would boot up with the S-Video cable. Now it won't boot with either of the two component cables I've tried or the S-Video cable.

I called Microsoft (Best Buy said they could only refund the machine itself and not the accessories and games) and I was actually quite surprised with their service. I called twice and the longest I was on hold either time was 1 minute. Plus, I didn't have to argue with them at all to get them to agree to repairing the machine. I told them the issue, they apologized and immediately started working on getting things set up to overnight me a box so I could send it in for repairs.

Sucks that it broke and I'm dying to get back to playing it again, but at the same I'm not real upset. I'm an early adopter on a lot of tech items and it just turned out that I was one of the unlucky ones this go around. No one else that I know personally has had any problems with theirs yet. I wouldn't view it as something worth suing over (especially considering my experience with Microsoft on resolving this issue so far) but I don't fault this guy for giving it a go. For better or worse lawsuits are just a part of big business now.

[WebmasterOfWarStoke.com]

your right on the money

i think your right on the money. every time I've ever had a problem with a console or product such as i was one of those unlucky guys to get the snes with the bad video plugs
but i called NOA and they sent me a replacement right away
and when i got a defective CD for win me Microsoft send me a new one right away

the only company i have entered into a law suit with was Toshiba due to the false advertising on the 5005 series. but that was after years of following normal channels to get it fixed.

law suits should be the last resort not the first idea most companies will do replacements or repairs rather than risk bad press.

[jmassey--2008]

Message has been deleted.

[tecknowone]

Microsoft Xbox Suit

Where do I get in line. I want to start a Class Action lawsuit because my TRS-80 Model 1 Radio Shack computer with 4k and cassette storage cannot run the latest Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.0 and Windows Media Center and Office. They should make sure all their software is backwards compatible with all computers known to mankind. And while on the gaming subject why can't my Atari 2600 run the new Xbox 360 games. Sounds like a good case for a Class action here.

[skemp]

No Problems Here

I've got a 360, and it works beautifully. I actually read the
manual before setting it up, and have been paying attention to
how hot it gets in the entertainment center that's built into my
wall. The shelf that it is on is about a foot and a half deep, and
the power brick is all the way back. There is another shelf about
six inches higher. There seems to be plenty of air flowing
around it, even in this situation. I had it on for about eight
hours yesterday without any problems.

Oh, and it rocks. Really, it's easy to use and beautiful to behold.

I know that some units have been defective. I doubt the design
is defective, though, or mine would be behaving as designed...
defectively. It seems that this will be hard to prove unless it
turns out that the majority of consoles are behaving in this way.

On another note... Can someone be countersued for not reading
the manual? He may have read it, but it is pretty clear about
keeping it in a well ventilated place.

Personally, I think that my stereo receiver gets warmer than the
new xbox. Then again, it doesn't have fans either.

[marcgo2]

Let's see MS supporters...

If this man somehow beats Microsoft's dozens of lawyers and millions of dollars at their disposal, you can't tell me everyone who bought an XBOX360 isn't going to want their share.

All these people saying that he shouldn't sue are going to take their piece of the pie in this class action lawsuit.

[triotntr21]

SONY

http://www.ps2settlement.com/Index.htm


SONY had OVER 7 defective models and still today sell them

[alawaiblowfish]

Re: SONY

I actually have a 50001 Version of the PS2 (one of the consoles listed in the lawsuit), and have had it for over 2 years now without any signs of trouble or "disk read errors"...this after moving once and having my cat knock the console over about 5 times already...and it still runs great. Now, i do agree that earlier models had problems. My first PS2 was japanese and was from the first batch made and it died after a year and a half from the dreaded "disk read error", but that's also understandable, because I never turned it off!

I like sony's game machines, I think they're the best in the business. I also think that they're the smart players in the next-gen format wars because they still have the time to address issues like these before rushing the product out to the consumer. You probably won't be seeing many red flags when the ps3 comes out like we did with the 360!

[DraconumPB]

This is not a joke or an isolated instance...

I know one person personally who had this happen and had to have his system shipped out to be repaired within a week of buying it. This person happens to be the only person I know with an xbox 360..

[syinaspe]

Clowns...

This is our society...pathetic really. What kind of retard buys a new electronic when it firsts comes on the market, and not expected some potential problems. He ovbiously has never had a playstation 1 or 2. This is what happens when us gamers let regular idiots into our world and let them open their uninformed mouths. Where are the lawsuits for Apples' defective Ipod Nanos... or all of Sonys playstations ( I'll had multiples of both)?
This is some jerks way of getting paid. I hope the Evil Empire destroys him finacially and socially. I could understand if this was valid cause I have no love for Micro's ways, but this is just another disgusting example of an American blaming someone else for their amazing stupidity. The video game industry is no stranger to these clowns.