Longhorn could be tough sell for Microsoft

Longhorn has already survived several major delays, intense scrutiny from the industry and a radical redesign of its features.

But the toughest test for Microsoft's next release of Windows is still to come: Will anyone buy it?

Even though it will be five years after Windows XP's debut, Microsoft could still face a tough sell when it releases Longhorn next year. With past updates, users had clamored for more stability and security, but analysts say people are pretty happy with Windows XP.

"Microsoft for the very first time is going to be faced with the challenge of being the player whose (operating system) is 'good enough'" as is, said Jupiter Research analyst Michael Gartenberg.

The challenge is one Microsoft has tackled for years with its Office software, but it's a relatively new problem for the Windows side of the house.

Microsoft managed to turn the launch of Windows 95 into a major event, with loads of mainstream press and consumer enthusiasm. However, subsequent releases have been considerably more subdued affairs, particularly the launch of Windows XP, which came just a few weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Even with its longest-ever time between OS releases, Gartenberg said, Microsoft will have to work to build demand for Longhorn.

News.context

What's new:
After several months of quiet about Longhorn, Microsoft is expected to start talking soon about the next version of Windows, which is slated to ship next year.

Bottom line:
Microsoft needs to come up with some strong selling points if it wants consumers and businesses to upgrade from Windows XP, an operating system analysts say is widely viewed as "good enough."

More stories on Longhorn

"Microsoft is going to have to find a way to take a page from the Steve Jobs playbook and make an operating system that not only looks interesting, but feels interesting," Gartenberg said.

Longhorn was supposed to achieve the sort of "quantum leap" Microsoft managed with Windows 95. The software maker began talking about Longhorn at a developer conference in the fall of 2003, years before the software would be ready. Microsoft spoke of it as a major advance, to which significant upgrades of other Microsoft software would be tied.

But faced with the prospect of having to further delay the OS, Microsoft decided last year to scale back its key components, and with them, some of Longhorn's ambitions.

The result is that Microsoft is on track to deliver a new version of Windows next year, but it has been unclear about what, exactly, the OS will contain.

"We know pretty much definitively that Longhorn is the next version of the Windows client," Gartenberg said. "Everything else goes downhill from there."

Things should become clearer next month when Microsoft offers an updated preview version of Longhorn at WinHEC, its Windows Hardware Engineering Conference, in Seattle. A more full-featured beta version has been promised by June.

What if you released an OS and no one came?
A lot has changed since Windows XP debuted in 2001. Wireless networking has become much more common, as have devices with

re: Longhorn could be tough sell for Microsoft

It's a tough world out there. Windows XP is a house without door and window locks.
Microsoft can make Longhorn an irresistible upgrade and solve one of Windows XP's deficiencies by bundling world class AntiVirus, AntiSpam, AntiSpyware, Firewall with Microsoft Longhorn.

Buy a Macintosh

EOM

[catchall]

actually

XP has firewall (I'd prefer it was two-way, but you can't get everything), and MS already puts out Anti-spy ware as a free download. Anti spam is more a function of a mail application, and has no place in the OS. So all of XP?s ?deficiencies? are already taken care of, with the exception of AntiVirus. I personally think I am happier with a specialized third party doing that. AVG for the home (its solid and free), and something from a major vendor for work.
XP is stable, it crunches the needed numbers at work and edits the home pics/video, and MS is already porting many of the features of Longhorn backwards.
I have to agree with the story. Why would I upgrade?

Necessary?

Well yes world class antivirus/ antispyware/ firewall(I doubt this one).
Now just think about how much resources those programs eat up. Now consider using an OS that does NOT need those programs (maybe a firewall but that's a part of the system already). And consider that that alternative OS has your favorite easy to use office/filmplayer/cdburner/etc. software in it for $0!. I do not see the point in giving money to a foreign firm whose general policy is to push out faulty products then stop the support for those and make you buy the new product that has even more security holes and features you'll never ever use.

I think I made a few points clear. That's why I use Linux.

[DaClyde]

careful with the bundling

Bundling is what got Microsoft in trouble in the first place. Now if they make a full frontal assault on antivirus security companies by giving it all away from free like the did with their browser, they'll be buried in more anti-trust lawsuits before Longhorn even hits the shelves. Besides, all their bundling does is take up that much more space on the hard drive with tools you can't remove when you want to replace them with GOOD utilities that do the same things.

[System Tyrant]

Microsoft Licencing Sucks

I hope they reinvent their licencing policy for Longhorn. I am not going to rebuy a licence for Windows everytime I replace my computer. That is just a load of dookie.

What if ?

Suppose, as part of the M$ ID system - THEY LICENCE THE USER, INSTEAD OF THE SOFTWARE ?

Suppose you get a hardware key with your software, and anyone/anywhere that ran that software, you could use the software with your USER key ? Every time you move to a new PC - BFD, as you would simply use the hardware licence key on the new machine ?

Some years ago, I heard a rumour that (with the growth of home networks) M$ had considered a site licence - i.e. allow you to run software on up to 5 (?) PC's on a single network, or at a single site. With a hardware user key, or as many as needed, that might be achievable.

Wadya think ?

[Gerald Quaglia]

Ha Ha Ha Ha

You will pay and pay dearly for every install of the greatest software on Earth. So say Bill Gates, the savior of the planet.

[Joe_Wulf]

Micro$loth and their 'stuff'

I've been glad for the BREAK in the plethora of gak that Micro$loth portends as improvements, or quality upgrades... They've clearly failed, for a very long time, to expressly support the open standards, much less existing standards in their 'products'.

As someone else mentioned, I'd much rather employ many third party products, because that way I get to choose---I'm not restricted to the usual limited thinking Micro$loth puts into most of their products.

I've not heard about any effort on Micro$loths part to ensure the user interface is actually worthwhile, that they've agressively displayed or provided access to ALL the configuration information with HEALTHY and QUALITY information describing them, that they've reduced the number of mouse-clicks to get at much less change configuration settings.... the list goes on and on.

At this point, yes, I understand XP and 2003 and what advantages they are able to provide, and I pretty clearly understand all their deficiencies. What is Micro$loth going to do to effectively eliminate the learning curve for the new gak they'll foist on us?

[Sboston]

Gak

So is there no gak that you have to learn in any other OS?
While I'm not sure on OSX, Linux has plenty of gak to learn. And the same could be said for third party vendors of software for any OS. New gak to learn how to use.

[Earl Benser]

No need to upgrade...

I have 6 PC's. four on XP-SP2 and two on W2K. They work very
well, have no serious problems with crashes, and are otherwise
just what I want.

Longhorn for me is just a waste of time, money, and interest.
Maybe in five years or so, after Longhorn gets actually
debugged, therre may be a point to an OS move. But for now,
Longhorn is nothing but an unedible cow.

[Chung Leong]

Agree

I too am quite happy with XP-SP2. Win 2K used to do the blue screen of death every now and then. I haven't seen it at all in XP, 'cept for the time when my powerline was stuck by lightning.

Without WinFS I don't really see what the revolutionary advance is. Avalon looks interesting but eye candle alone is hardly worth an upgrade.

The only reason I would upgrade is to get 64 bit support.

[Gerald Quaglia]

We'll see

When you need to reinstall xp in a few years and M$ has shut off all activation for XP. You will upgrade or else, Gates has spoken.

[gdmaclew]

5 Years?

September 2001 - March 2005...
Seems like 3 and a half years to me.

[Earl Benser]

This means something??????

Tell us what you're trying to say

[rodnarms]

Finally, OS Competition Has Arrived!

Competitively Microsoft is in trouble. For the first time a large chunk of people know about other operating systems. For the first time ever these OS's match Windows, or in the case of OS X beat them. We are entering a stage where OS competition thrives.

All I know of Windows Longhorn is whats reported on WinSupersite.From what I've seen of it seems to be extremely pretty.But thats all the good I can say of it.

I'm pleased with the Opensource movement. It has now reached a place where the average computer user can run Linux and use it well. I have started using Ubuntu almost exclusively now. It's absolutely free and has all the features you would ever need in an operating sytem also free. It's amazing.

[Jonathan]

The MS kool-aid

"From what I've seen of it seems to be extremely pretty.But thats all the good I can say of it. "

I'm probably one of the last people on the planet that would actively back MS. In point of fact I'd be more then likely to be on all fours behind them while someone pushes them over me.
But I simply couldn't leave that comment alone. If ?pretty? is all that you think is going on with Longshot then you simply haven't been paying attention. Even with all the various features they have yanked from Longshot its still has some impressive tech behind it. I would suggest doing some googling because you apparently are WAY out of the loop.

typical process

As long as MS keeps developing, Opensource can keep copying. Not much inovation from the opensource movement,typical process ... wait for MS to produce, then a while later the featur shows up in OpenSource, I don't mean kind of like it, I mean almost Identical (look at Open Office, it's a visual copy of MS). It's a good thing OpenSource does not actually have to "invent" something.

Parent is only partly right

There seems to be some sort of competition, but the race seems
to be lost already. Most people thought that the Mac was dead.
I never gave up hope. Now, it is emerging as a IT department
possibility whereas it used to be a joke. Gaming still stinks
(Doom 3) and some Apple upgrades seem to be doing what M$
made people do with Windows upgrades; buy new hardware.
Case in point, Final Cut Pro.

Longhorn is spouting features reminiscent of OS X 10.2 (Jaguar)
- Tiger is about to be released and I can only wonder how
'wowed' Redmond will be when they see all the features their
spies didn't glean before release.

The one dark horse for OS X could be Linux. I installed Blag
[http://www.blagblagblag.org|http://www.blagblagblag.org] on an old PC and I have to say these
guys made a solid Linux distro.

So, is there really OS competition? Yeah, but it looks like
Microsoft will have to sit on the sidelines this time and watch
Linux and OS X duke it out.

[201293546946733175101343322673]

Really?

So you love those open source nuts who do nothing but writing codes and attack MS 24/7. Get a life :)

[Jonathan]

Of course it will sell...

...to OEM's. Where do you think MS makes the most money off of Windows? It sure as heck isn't copies purchased of a retail shelf at Microcenter, Best Buy, CompUSA, etc.

If people think the same BS tactics aren't still going on with MS strongarming their OEM's you are dangerously delusional. The same old BS is going on just with a twist on how they do it.

[Stating]

Things I'd Like To See In Longhorn

The list of things below that came to mind are features that I would pay for in Longhorn.

1) Faster boot-up. The proliferation of services in the startup process makes even a fast computer take forever to boot. There should be a way to specify which services can boot later on, after the user has control of the computer. I frequently use my PDA to look something up because the instant-on is so much faster than waiting for my XP computers to start up.

2) Display scaling. It's great that display monitors and video card can support super high resolution. But it is nuts that if I crank up the resolution the onscreen display "shrinks", causing me to have to squint. There should be a way to scale up the display and compensate for increased resoltion.

3) Finer granularity for network shares. XP Home Edition "sharing" is crippled, I can grant access or not, but have no control beyond that. Most XP computers sold at retail don't offer the XP Pro version, which does provide the granularity.

4) More robust disk defrag, Registry defrag. The built in defrag is crippled. It can't defrag open files, and there is no boot-time defrag option.

5) File versioning. There's no convenient way to rollback user created data files to a prior point in time. I have to use a manual process of closing the app, copying the file to take a snapshot, then opening the file back up again to continue work.

6) Merge Mediacenter. It's a given now that people want built-in support for TV functions, remote control, etc. Mediacenter should be rolled into mainline XP and also offered as a retail upgrade.

Keith
www.techcando.com

[lilrazztx]

Still...

I still wouldn't buy it.

Defrag???

HUAHUAHUAHUAH

Defrag... i wish the filesystem WinFS without fragments...

Ext3, ReiserFs, JFS, Xfs and another Unix file systems are fragement-free a decade...

You will upgrade...

Maybe not right away. It will start with a gradual scaling back of support, no new trinket items, then only "critical" security updates, ultimately stopping all together. You will upgrade. Or you will continue to compute like the majority of America - blissfully ignorant of all the bad stuff running on your computer until it slows to a crawl and you wonder why. Guess how you fix it at that point cause your OS hasn't been supported for 2 years by then... You upgrade.

You are 0wN3d.

(I know, I know - get a Mac, Linux, ObscureOS, etc etc etc. I am speaking to Windows users - save the flame.)

[catchall]

What are you talking about?

Have you seen any new software for Mac OS9? How about System7? Any fancy drivers to get my new digital camera working with my Commodore64?

Every OS, at some point, will be obsolete. This type of ?forced? upgrading is hardly a Microsoft issue. If you have any hope of using a modern equipment/software, you to are ?0wN3d.?

[wazzledoozle]

Almost wrong

The people who you suppose will be locked into an upgrade, are the exact usere who DONT upgrade. As logn as they can check their email, and look at simple websites they will never ugrade.

On the other hand, longhorn offers no benefits to those who know what they are doing, because windows xp is a perfectly stable and compatible os.
So in tow years, I wont have virus's bogging donw my xp system, I have never had a virus. There would actually be fewer virus's thanks to longhorn.

[Bill Dautrive]

Bad logic

50% of the windows world is on something other then XP. If those people haven't upgraded, they aren't likely to anytime soon. And the same reason that people with 98 haven't switched is the same reason many with XP won't. There is nothing in it that justifies it.

I have no reason to think of upgrading my XP install. For one, I pretty much only use it to play games and XP is hard enough to get to cooperate with older games. I got XP about 2 months after release and it didn't run a few games that were 6 months old, not too mention older game. I am not going through that again.

I pretty much know the vulnerabilities of the block of swiss cheese named XP, and have them shut down and killed off thanks to 3rd party apps, some tweaking and moving away from MS garbage like IE. MS has yet to come out with a single product that isn't a hole riddled mess, so why take the risk?

Windows is a cheaply made toy OS that runs games, there is no other purpose for it, that my linux install can't do better, faster, safer and is more configurable, so why bother?

Even if by some miracle that shorthorn was released next year and it was stable, reasonably secure, and priced modestly($50 or so) I still would not buy it because Microsoft has not earned my business. Other then the occasional game title published by MS, they will never get another penny out of me. That is what Microsoft has earned.

I couldn't if I wanted to

And I don't want to. I have OS X Panther, and I will likely upgrade
to Tiger, but I have no need for Longhorn on my gaming (read
Windows) machine, and I can't run Windows (without Virtual PC I
guess) on my Mac.

The Mac now does everything I want out side of running the best
games. Fortunately, the PS3 will probably means I don't want to
upgrade my gaming machine, so I shouldn't ever need
Longhorn.

If it weren't for DirectX/Direct3D games, there wouldn't be a
Windows machine in my house today.

[Nael]

Use Linux it works

To all of you who live behind big brother(Microsoft), I have to tell you I have been in that camp since Dos days when windows and dos were two products. Boy I miss those days. If windows crashed, your computer didnt. Its the GUI Stupid!

Yesterday at work I decided to go full forward with Novell Linux of Suse distribution. I had some obstacles getting this to work with Active Directory and MS Exchange but in the end it was all worth it.

Computer runs faster, I got everything on linux that I would use on windows for productivity such Open Office an MS office equivlant, if not better since its native XML support and JSP. I use evolution with MS exchange connectors to use Outlook functions such Contacts, appointments, calanders, and emails access.

For managing my Windows Server and of course i have linux servers, I use SSH , VNC, and RDP to remotely control the servers, routers and switches for field sales office in Californian.

We are a home builder that builds homes all over california.

The total cost of this project was $0.00. I downloaded the ISO images overnight and installed and was up and running.

I have to give it to Novell, they are up on Microsoft. The only thing is better default setup of dDirectory. If that works from the start, im a happy camper.

I started with linux in 1997, but I still use Windows Xp and Windows products. My point is take the best of both and apprecate it. If it doesnt work on MS then linux and vice versa.


The rebirth of Novell is on the Horizon. Novell the leader in Linux.

when you don't have to recompile the kernal, then talk to me

yep, I am going to tell my 65 year old parents that that new hardware they just got is going to require them to recompile the linux kernal........

[Jonathan]

Really?

Then you won't mind coming over and getting my Orinoco card to work with my Mandrake 10 install because the damn install doesn't even see the card and the drivers are pointing me out to some site where I need to download new PCMCIA cardbus drivers or some freakish crap. Don't tell me Linux just works. When I can simply download a driver and install it with an simple exe or even extract the INF files from a download and update the drivers from the device manager then we will talk.
At this point Linux is still as f-ed up as ever. They have started catching up to Windows when it comes to out of the box hardware support but don't even attempt to form a syllable suggesting installing new hardware on a Linux system is as easy as on Windows or OS X because it just isn't the case.

Do you really believe what you are saying?

I recently have worked with some Linux (RH,Suse, Mandrake, Gentoo & Debian) distribuitions and the only that I would say that performs better than XP is the Gentoo distribution. And if you don't believe me please read the following link (www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id7324) because I totally identify with the person who wrote this!

[Nael]

Use Linux it works

To all of you who live behind big brother(Microsoft), I have to tell you I have been in that camp since Dos days when windows and dos were two products. Boy I miss those days. If windows crashed, your computer didnt. Its the GUI Stupid!

Yesterday at work I decided to go full forward with Novell Linux of Suse distribution. I had some obstacles getting this to work with Active Directory and MS Exchange but in the end it was all worth it.

Computer runs faster, I got everything on linux that I would use on windows for productivity such Open Office an MS office equivlant, if not better since its native XML support and JSP. I use evolution with MS exchange connectors to use Outlook functions such Contacts, appointments, calanders, and emails access.

For managing my Windows Server and of course i have linux servers, I use SSH , VNC, and RDP to remotely control the servers, routers and switches for field sales office in California.

We are a home builder that builds homes all over California. With Linux we have reduced are cost of licenses, extended the usefullness of obsolete hardware that run more efficently under linux than windows. Can anyone argue that? Finally, the Linux community is always willing to help for free as it should be. Support for software should be included with an OS not charged for at least the first year.

When I buy TV, I get one years manufactures warranty, why cant software be the same. I hate you Veritas thats why i switched to linux to use an open source tape back up solution. I just bought your product Version 10. 1 week into i cal l support to find out i have to pay for it. I just bought less than 10 days ago.....

I guesse thats way they cant be independent anymore.

The total cost of this project was $0.00. I downloaded the ISO images overnight and installed and was up and running.

Dont get me wrong, im very technicaly inclined so its not like an average person couldnt do this with the Novell Setup. Its seamless and easy to get up an running.

I have to give it to Novell, they are up on Microsoft. The only thing is better default setup of dDirectory. If that works from the start, im a happy camper.

I started with linux in 1997, but I still use Windows Xp and Windows products. My point is take the best of both and apprecate it. If it doesnt work on MS then linux and vice versa.


The rebirth of Novell is on the Horizon. Novell the leader in Linux.


NOVELL "We're back!"

[City_Of_LA]

No I wont

I run SP1, Avast Antivirus (free), a good firewall and Firefox. Stuff like virusses, adware, SP2 or "critical updates" are alien to me. People need educating on how to use their systems properly. I had 2 crashes in the past 3 years. Two!

Longhorn would have to earn its way onto my system. I have no reason to pay 500-600 bucks just for a spiffier UI, better ways to arrange my media or "stay in touch with your friends and family".

I do fine without MS support.

[lilrazztx]

So?

It also depends on the hardware not just the OS.

[Michael Grogan]

The biggest difference...

...in Longhorn is its being one step closer to giving M$ complete control of all the data on your PC and paying a subscription fee for the privilege! Take a closer look at their new technologies and the new business model they are trying to attain ; ). Don't believe I'll ever have Longhorn on my system.

Yes, I will upgrade.....

To a Mac when Tiger is released. Then the XP box gets allocated for gaming use only.

one step further

Tim... I'm with you.
I even got rid of the gaming PC and am sticking to consoles.

BTW... Xbox2 uses the same chipset as Apple...

[rodnarms]

A Line of Copying Features

Well in truth it seems to be a line of copying. Microsoft copies Apple innovations, then Open Source copies Microsoft technologies. I'm talking about copying features in the marketplace as a usable product and not in development.

I'm not an opensource fanatic. I used Windows until 2002 where I switched to Mac. Recently I switch my time between OS X and Ubuntu Hoary.

Open Source is making some big leaps. For example linux desktop search in the form of Beagle was announced a couple hours before (literally) Apple's Spotlight. Nat Friedman did it and he's a big opensource dude who's been involved in Gnome and Evolution. http://www.nat.org.

OS like Ubuntu are completely, 100% free. That's impressive I think.

[scdecade]

what about Unix?

Am I mistaken or will Unix (pick any flavor) still be vastly superior to any Microsoft server OS 5 years from now? Apple and Linux are somewhat OK for various things but Unix is still supreme.

Really

The things are simple...

Unix -- High-end Servers, like Super-computers, datacenters etc. (The best secure and stable system)

Linux -- Medium and Lower-end Servers, Like webservers and some datacenter.. and Desktop (just crazy guys, like me)

Mac -- Desktop, Graphicals app's

Windows -- Desktop, A lot of good and usefuls app's. Server (yes, some people are crazy to use)

True

The windows line evolved from desktop to server and that shows... If they do not rewrite the whole of their codebase then their security will be as inferior to unix (which was written as a multiuser/network system) as it is now.
If I want something fancy looking I'm usually not looking for a server OS. Also any unix with an X11 setup would outperform windows GUI wise anyday...

Upgrade Truths

for windows 2000/XP users longhorn does not offer anything great, but there are many Windows 95, 98, ME & NT 4 users worldwide. still win 98 is the second most used os in the world, and when the users running 98 will buy a new pc they are going to get longhorn. some linux joker may also switch. www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

but for xp users no benifit, they have accounced that the longorn ui avalon will also be made availble for xp users, so u will be able you make it look like that.

[bobby_brady]

Doesn't matter if you want Longhorn or not

If you don't upgrade, Microsoft will force you to upgrade by dropping support for XP.

Either way, we're going to get screwed.

[catchall]

No, that is not the case

In reality, MS has already promised to port back most of the big features in LongHorn to XP. If anything, this extends the life of XP for quite a while.
MS does not have the luxury that Apple enjoys, where it can force a complete change over its entire user base and have them coming back for more.

Just VIsual ?

Just Mac OX like.. i wanna know if i will be able to open varios app's without crash the system, and without that stupids messages of the Xp-Sp2.. that's not security...
Ow.. about security.. if the developers of Windows said what your system will be secure just in 2011, and Longhorn come in 2006, this means Longhorn wont be secure??? (yes)

That's why i use Linux...

[stevenmcs]

Why people were reluctant to upgrade

After upgrading to windows 95 people didn't want to have everything they knew about windows thrown out and being pushed into buying new software. Then windows 98 rearanged everything so you were totally lost. The 2nd edition was a good version and didn't change the interface it just worked better. Winme was just broken. Upgrding to it was worst dicision I could of made. I fix windows as a business and I envied everyone that stuck with win98 2 ed. Then along came XP most people just got it with a new computer since it rearanged everything again. People get the service packs because they improve it without making you feel lost and retrain. They say learning new things prevents alzhimers so the future is better for windows prevents alzhiemers. Just make it better not totaly different.