Limited choices for Windows XP holdouts

Despite words of caution from some in the tech industry that it's too early to make the switch to Microsoft's Windows Vista, many PC shoppers have no choice.

The PC industry has moved almost everything they sell to consumers--and some businesses--over to Vista, both in stores and online.

To be fair, there's a reason for it. Vista integrates new security technologies and entertainment features that were unavailable on Windows XP machines. It also makes finding a Wi-Fi connection a simpler task and makes it easier to search a PC's hard drive for a particular file or document. And PC sales did jump during the first few weeks the operating system was available to consumers.

"It's like a car dealer. They're going to blow out the '07s; they'd rather sell (customers) the '08s."

-- Samir Bhavnani,
analyst with Current Analysis

But not everyone thinks that's enough to justify an upgrade quite yet. Symantec CEO John Thompson told CNET News.com he wouldn't be upgrading anytime soon because of security concerns, and security expert Bruce Schneier wrote in Forbes that Vista's digital-rights management technology will actually slow your computer.

Add a smattering of application compatibility problems and the extra expense of ordering a system configured to handle Vista's performance demands, and there's a sense of hesitation among some consumers and businesses.

So what if your PC dies this week and you need to buy a new one, but don't want to upgrade to Vista? Good luck finding a Windows PC with XP on it at your local retail store, let alone a desktop or notebook that you actually want.

"Consumer retail is almost exclusively Vista," said Samir Bhavnani, an analyst with Current Analysis, which tracks the U.S. retail PC market.

Options are limited
So what are your options? You could buy a PC aimed at business customers. You could buy a Vista machine, buy a boxed copy of Windows XP online, and install it on the new machine--with the added bonus of getting rid of the "crapware" that accompanies a new retail PC. Or you could go through more convoluted technical exercises such as virtualization.

And, yes, you could get a Mac, or load one of the various desktop Linux distributions onto your PC. But customers who just need to replace a basic system or add a cheap desktop for the kids--and small businesses that have standardized on Windows--will either have to add all of Vista's bells and whistles along with that system or pay an additional $100 for a boxed copy of Windows XP.

Microsoft said in a statement that it expects PC companies to keep a select number of Windows XP systems around for 12 months, and that system builders and resellers that cater to business customers will be able to offer Windows XP for 24 months. Boxed copies of Windows XP will be available through official outlets for another 12 months, Microsoft said.

But PC companies said they are making a wholesale move to Windows Vista at retail, and representatives for companies such as Hewlett-Packard, Gateway and Acer said the only systems with Windows XP in retail stores are older models; new ones are Vista systems. Many of those companies have also moved all the consumer-focused systems on their Web sites to Vista without a configuration option for Windows XP.

XP's disappearing act
At a large CompUSA in downtown San Francisco late last week, a smattering of Windows XP desktops and laptops could be found nestled among more heavily promoted Vista brethren. Nearly all the XP machines were marked down as "manager's specials," with many available only as open box or demonstration machines.

Boxed copies of XP were available, but not at the prominent Vista display that greeted visitors as they entered the store. Rather, XP copies could be found at two more distant outposts that also had additional copies of Vista.

Dell still offers Windows XP notebooks and desktops, but they can all be found under Dell's Latitude business notebook brand, with the exception of the XPS M1710 with the Blu-ray disc player.

Retailers and PC companies don't get any incentives to sell Windows XP systems, so they simply don't, Bhavnani said. "It's like a car dealer. They're going to blow out the '07s; they'd rather sell (customers) the '08s."

The trouble is that most of the hype and promotion surrounding Vista have been around the Aero graphical interface, which doesn't come on low-end PCs with Vista Basic, Bhavnani said. If a potential shopper is just looking to spend around $300 on a desktop or around $600 on a notebook, they're going to wind up with Vista Basic and lose out on the fancy new graphics.

"I don't really know why somebody would buy a Vista Basic system, unless you're a real basic user," he said. Installing Windows XP to replace Vista Basic isn't too difficult, but those cost-conscious customers might balk at the additional $100 needed for a licensed copy of Windows XP.

It could also be tricky for business customers who care more about application compatibility than graphics, which is why analysts have expected them to hold out until Vista can be tested extensively and has received an initial batch of updates. Corporate PC users depend on dozens of critical applications like VPN (virtual private network) software or 3G cellular cards for notebooks that won't necessarily work quite yet on Vista machines.

An HP representative said the company will sell Windows XP PCs through its resellers to small and medium businesses as long as Microsoft continues to license that operating system. Lenovo, which caters more to the business crowd, offers the choice of either XP or Vista on all of its Lenovo 3000 and ThinkPad machines.

It might be hard for some to avoid Vista in the short term. But in the long run--once all the application problems are worked out--most Windows users probably won't want to avoid it, Bhavnani said.

"People are going to have to have a little patience until all the applications work. It's a very short-term pain that will last people less than three months."

CNET News.com's Ina Fried contributed to this report.

[adasha76]

Straight answer

"I don't really know why somebody would buy a Vista Basic system, unless you're a real basic user," he said.

How about because I refuse to pay such an extortionate amount of money for an OS just because it looks nicer and has a few features I'm either not interested in or already have using 3rd party software?

[Dragon Forge]

Scare tactics article

There are a myriad of sources available t you to pick up an xp system!!!

LOL ! ! ! And "if your system dies tomorrow" the license does not die with it, the hardware is replaceable,... WHAT MALARKY is this but scare mongering tactics but an industry desparate to confuse the consumer.

Imagine for a second that you are being obviously and blatantly manipulated - HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL!?!?!

Smart money is on the "no rush no - worries" theology, and it should be, everything is fixable or replaceable.

Articles have been out for months about the BS hype of vista's so called better security system. HA!HA!HA! LOL do you really beleive it!?!? No one elase does.

And for games!??? has a long way to go before they prove to the gaming market they can make it fly.

I hate to think crap is getting rammed down the consumer's throat

[Dragon Forge]

Do you think for a second that windows has gottten it right yet???

I was there when DOS 5 & 6 were released so have had to endure every single bit of marketing hyperbola, subterfuge and rhetoric from microlimp about their "stability" and "security".

Promises, promises, promises. You think it is going to be any more safe, secure or stable?????

What isn't already poorly done with preplanned obsolescence in mind is being actively brought down by those focused on testing the real capabilities and capacities of windows security

[Lindy01]

Totally lame article

Most corporations load their own builds on new PC's either when they come in or they pay Dell and HP to do it for them. They buy licenses not software copies. Vista probably gets blown away way more for a corporate XP install than it gets left on a new box coming in. Even small businesses buy 5 or 10 copies of XP Pro and get 1 disk and the licenses to install it on their PC?s.

For home users well???.is this any different than when XP came out???? No its not, does Mac allow you buy a new PC with the last version of its OS???NO they don?t.

Anyone that has been in the PC world for the last 5 years knew this was going to happen.

Why is this even an article?

[bluemist9999]

I'd upgrade from XP to a Mac

Even though I've never used a Mac, if I had to buy a new PC, and had a choice of either:

1) Upgrading to a new high-end PC and watching Vista grind it to a halt and force new DRM crap on me
or
2) Upgrading to a Mac (which from what I've heard runs faster than Windows)

I'd take the latter. I've never used a Mac, but it sounds like the less painful option.

I'd use some dual boot or virtualization software to run a copy of Windows XP as needed on the Mac.

If Microsoft got rid of the DRM "enhancements" and toned down the extra GUI showoff features, so it ran well on a regular PC, I'd consider upgrading to it.

[dmeriwether]

Vista/XP and Charity license for client seats

In the middle of an upgrade, we learned the hard way that MS
has ceased charity license for XP Pro completely. Must buy Vista
at $72.00 a client seat instead of XP Pro at $8 a seat - a major
hit on the budgets of most charities. (Come on, Bill, can't the
Foundation subsidize some here?) Of course, they allow the
charity to install XP Pro under the Vista seat license, with the
purchase of the media disk. How all this goes in reality we have
yet to see, and our IT is dubious about the smooth install. Will
XPro recognize the Vista codes, etc. But what choice is there? We
are afraid to call back and ask if the same marketing models
apply to charity licences for Office. That would be a slap on both
cheeks - or more accurately a one-two punch to non-profit
budgets already staggered by real needs.

[BruceLawrence]

Consumers share responsiblity

I have numerous issues with this artible excpet on the business side of it.

The corporation I work for won't be going to Vista anytime in the next fiscal year. It will probably be FY09. This is due to getting the best TOC from our existing desktops and software compatibility. I'm sure this is typical accross most corporations.

Consumers on the other hand... In Microsofts 'defense' they simply cannot and should not continue to support Mom's 9 year old Kodak software. Or Printshop deluxe from 1999.

Consumers have to face the hardened facts. At SOME point in time they're going to have to upgrade software. While I understand that not all software is compatible, its not entirely Microsofts fault. The software vendor has to create compabtible versions and the dev network has had their hands on Vista for quite some time.

Companies like Microsoft have to move forward for obvious reasons. Vista is a move in that direction and if you don't get the glassy nice look because you can't spend an extra $200 on a faster system then sorry.

I don't care what that article says or what these "experts" like the Symantec CEO says (yeah he doesn't have alternative motives does he), people see Vista and they want it. They use Vista and are very impressed by it. Its a good OS and brings a slew of new features and capabilities that XP couldn't provide. So you gotta buy faster hardware. Since when was that a bad thing? You get more life out of the system and the experience is better!

One example of why a faster system is required is when you're watching a video in Media Center in Vista, you can shrink the movie down, move it to the side and continue working. Not only that, when you switch between your programs and sift through the windows like a rolodex, the movie is still playing! Works flawlessly.

My advice: Put your money down and get a good computer. You will be happier. No, I'm not a reseller and don't work for Microsoft. I'm an IT guy with some common sense.

[Ted Miller]

It happened to me.

I went to BestBuy, Walmart, Circuit City, CompUSA and Staples just to name a few. Microsoft has apparantly twisted their arms with their strong arm tactics. I did not see a single XP computer on the shelves. I asked a worker if they had any XP computers in a Bargin area or something and he said there was one and was going to sell it to me for double the amount it was worth. I told him never mind and that I will buy a Vista machine. He said there where no more in stock. As a matter of fact in all the stores there where not many Vista computers to choose from. Staples only had two. Walmart only had Emachines and I really did not want them as a matter of fact the only had Vista Basic and one was on disply with a real awful and blurry picture. I ended up buying one in Best Buy. Just a note I went to one Best Buy and the sales person was to busy talking to her friends for over 15 minutes while we stood there. We walked out and went to another Best Buy. Two people lost a big sale and nobody cares. what is this world coming to? I have the Home premium Vista and found it not to friendly although the Utility bar was pretty cool. I am pretty good with computers and I am pretty sure I will get it to work, but I must say that I do feel sorry for all the people who have even a slight amount of difficulty with computers. I believe Vista is going to be a nightmare for them!

[coachgeorge]

Why Change?

Lets see, I have 6 computers. Win2kserver, win2k3 server, XP Pro. They all work, they are all secure, they do what I need them to do. They are compatible with the software I use, I know them. Should a computer die, I will load the same operating system on the new computer that was on the old.
The only ones captured by the preloads on new computers are the non computer savvy. My hope is that there isn't enough of them to satisfy Microsoft's projections for Vista. I would like to see Vista be the new Windows ME.
Vista should have been a service pak upgrade to XP.

[clindhartsen]

Wasn't This Exactly What Happened With XP?

When the original release of XP happened, didn't all the retail stores largely remove any ME machines and auto-defacto sell XP machines. Honestly, though, the new OS runs well on my own PC, and it's roughly 4 years old and was a midrange model! Anyone saying "It'll slow it down" either hasn't used it or used it on something excessively low in power.

If anything, the new upgrade is definitely worth it, but if you want to still use XP, just go buy a copy and stop complaining!

[armchair99]

If You Want Choice...

Simply buy a vanilla box from a local PC store to replace the one that "died" and install any modern Linux Distro on it. You'll never need to worry about forced upgrades again.

[wilswong]

Go DIY

As usual, the Wintel PC conglomerate just push us to the edge of updating things that is not needed to be updated and to have things that is total crap (yes...crapware).

That's why the best way is to do it the DIY way. We have to learn sooner or later or else we are just ripe cherries for the picking.

[DStrong]

Of Course Symantec States security concerns!

Has anyone actually installed Vista and any Symantec product?? I have tired multiple times and each try I get the same error, "Symantec prodocuts are not compatible with Vista!". Mr. Thompson, you should be more concerned that your company has FAILED to deliver a product that works with Vista. Now that there is "Limited Choices" Symantec better do some better R&D and fast!

[thedreaming]

It's all about the money...

Microsoft's cash cows are Windows and Office. Microsoft udates these packages to kill bugs, add enhancements, and add new features. They also update the packages to support new hardware.

Now, as a side bonus, they use FUD to convince the consumer tha they need to buy Windows and Office (again) even though what they already have works well.

My XP runs fine and I use OpenOffice. Why do I need to run Vista and Office 2007?

Oh, because Mycrosoft wants to make more money? I'm sorry, that's not a good reason.

[rcrusoe]

Great choices for XP holdouts

Most of our business apps run in either a browser or a telnet screen, so the OS of our clients run really hasn't mattered for years. We've run Windows, for the most part, because the boxes were relatively cheap and XP has been reasonably secure and stable since SP2.

We have a few Windows only apps that some users need, but we've found that they don't run well in Vista. Since we'll have to redo those apps, we're moving them to a browser based system also.

Once that happens, with very few exceptions, we can run any OS we choose. And since our Macs have consistently needed only a tiny fraction of the support required by our Windows computers, guess what we'll be buying a lot more of in the future?

It looks like Vista will save us money and make us more secure. Because it has helped us to justify using a lot fewer Windows computers.

[Orion Blastar]

Oh really? What if I want to go Amiga?

AmigaKit offers a lot of features without the Vista crapware and bloatware. True I won't be running Windows programs any more, but at least I won't be dealing with malware and exploits that Windows systems have.

[top5recrds]

Ubuntu FTW

I've have dropped both Sony and Microsoft because of DRM issues and their intrusive behavior. I hated the feeling big brother is looking over my shoulder every time I purchased a DVD/CD or was asked to authenticate my OS for a simple update. I sense moved on to Ubuntu (Linux) and have not looked back with any envy or regret due to lack of function or features available to it Vs. Vista. I?ve learned many new skills and become a part of what is easily one of the friendliest, largest, and most helpful community based projects around . I have lost nothing and gained my freedom. Linux for the win.

[emmay]

XP vs VIsta

I wasn't ready for VISTA, but decided I needed a machine now, so settled for a lower end Presario with a Pentium 4...had a boxed copy of XP and loaded it up..voila..I'm good until the world catches up to VISTA.

[Orion Blastar]

ReactOS a free Windows alternative

Maybe those of us unhappy with Microsoft's Vista offerings will donate to ReactOS a free open source alternative to Windows that uses Windows software and Windows drivers.

They are currently at version 0.3.0 and ready to release 0.3.1 and by the time they make 0.4.0 they will be beta ready.

They share code with the WINE project, so helping ReactOS also helps WINE for Linux and other platforms. WINE allows Linux and other operating systems to run Windows programs like they were native programs.

ReactOS is not bloated like XP and Vista are, and does not require the expensive hardware to run it. ReactOS is trying to be like XP, but will be adding on even more features as time goes on and will eventually challege Vista.

[john55440]

That's almost as shocking...

>Good luck finding a Windows PC with XP on it at your local retail store,<

That's almost as shocking as the fact that you can no longer buy personal computers with MS-DOS preinstalled. -lol

I look forward to using Vista, when it comes preinstalled on my next computer.