In the DVD war over HD, most buyers are sitting it out

Even as prices fall, neither Sony's Blu-ray nor Toshiba?s HD DVD, has gained an advantage.
The New York Times

The story "In the DVD war over HD, most buyers are sitting it out" published December 31, 2007 at 1:30 AM is no longer available on CNET News.

Content from The New York Times expires after 7 days.

[lingsun]

Who cares?

DVD quality is good enough for me. I don't even know when I'll get a Hi Def TV.

[cyberspittle]

I agree too ... who cares

Fact is, DVDs are "good enough". Just like in times past, for example, the OS wars (Windows 95 verses OS/2). OS/2 was a superior product at the time, but Windows 95 was "good enough".

Another thing, is DVDs do indeed look decent on an upconvert DVD player. The majority of HDTVs sold are 720p, which is a little better than 480p. Once the price on 1080p HDTVs drop, consumers will start to wonder why their DVDs don't look as good.

"Good enough" is "good enough" for me. Especially when you have bills to pay and a family to take care of. :p

[Leria]

If you are smart

You will go out and pop for a high-definition TV with a digital tuner pretty soon, because they are making that analog to digital switch pretty soon.

I've been trying to talk my parents into buying a new TV, since that is going to kill most of our old TV's in our house unless we get converter boxes, which Comcast charges an outrageous 5 dollar a month fee for EACH ONE!

[jrm125]

I care

I have a high quality television and want my movies to look equally good.

Am I paying a premium? Yes
Does it matter to the average consumer? It will as time goes on.

[Bill_I]

HD disc war

I agree with lingsun, the enjoyment received from ordinary DVD playback in widescreen is perfectly adequate. My Sony Trinitron monitor still works fine after many years. Why are they trying to fix something that ain't broke? A bit like buying a fancy watch with unreadable dials to impress your peers, while the cell phone in your pocket gives exact time every time.

[Benf]

DVD Quality

I have a high end HDTV and sound system professionaly installed and working perfectly, we hooked up my brothers blue ray player and watched a blue ray movie, the picture was great, the sound was great but telling the difference in sound and picture qualitybetween blue ray and standard DVD was dificult if not impossible, blue ray may have better video than standard DVD but the diference is not much at all, in fact I dont think most people could tell the diference although i'm sure many will claim they can, at what point does your eye become unable to tell the diference, we're close to that now I think.

[lingsun]

Who cares?

DVD quality is good enough for me. I don't even know when I'll get a Hi Def TV.

[cyberspittle]

I agree too ... who cares

Fact is, DVDs are "good enough". Just like in times past, for example, the OS wars (Windows 95 verses OS/2). OS/2 was a superior product at the time, but Windows 95 was "good enough".

Another thing, is DVDs do indeed look decent on an upconvert DVD player. The majority of HDTVs sold are 720p, which is a little better than 480p. Once the price on 1080p HDTVs drop, consumers will start to wonder why their DVDs don't look as good.

"Good enough" is "good enough" for me. Especially when you have bills to pay and a family to take care of. :p

[Leria]

If you are smart

You will go out and pop for a high-definition TV with a digital tuner pretty soon, because they are making that analog to digital switch pretty soon.

I've been trying to talk my parents into buying a new TV, since that is going to kill most of our old TV's in our house unless we get converter boxes, which Comcast charges an outrageous 5 dollar a month fee for EACH ONE!

[jrm125]

I care

I have a high quality television and want my movies to look equally good.

Am I paying a premium? Yes
Does it matter to the average consumer? It will as time goes on.

[Bill_I]

HD disc war

I agree with lingsun, the enjoyment received from ordinary DVD playback in widescreen is perfectly adequate. My Sony Trinitron monitor still works fine after many years. Why are they trying to fix something that ain't broke? A bit like buying a fancy watch with unreadable dials to impress your peers, while the cell phone in your pocket gives exact time every time.

[Benf]

DVD Quality

I have a high end HDTV and sound system professionaly installed and working perfectly, we hooked up my brothers blue ray player and watched a blue ray movie, the picture was great, the sound was great but telling the difference in sound and picture qualitybetween blue ray and standard DVD was dificult if not impossible, blue ray may have better video than standard DVD but the diference is not much at all, in fact I dont think most people could tell the diference although i'm sure many will claim they can, at what point does your eye become unable to tell the diference, we're close to that now I think.

[tangokid]

Blu-ray holds more

In the bad old days of VHS vs Sony's Betamax, VHS won out
because the tapes could hold two hours, while Beta held only one
hour. Beta's quality was better, but people didn't seem to care
about that. Blu-ray's initial advantage was that the disks held more
than HD DVD disks, reversing the original problem Sony had with
Beta. It seems Blu-ray could take advantage of its greater capacity
and win the battle on that alone.

[Techknowhow]

Maybe

I don't know how much of a difference that would make as far as movies are concerned, but for data storage, it is quite a substantial advantage.

[webdev511]

Wrong...

Blu-Ray holds 50GB max on two layers. HD-DVD can hold 51GB on three, but backwards compatibility at that density hasn't been tested on all players. It has been tested at 45GB.

Even with Blu-Ray's technical advantages, it is agreed that telling the difference is difficult to tell the difference. So IMHO what's really going to decide it for studios is the cost to press discs.

Since all that's required to bring an HD-DVD line into production is retrofit an existing DVD line, it's cheaper, a LOT cheaper than bringing a blu-ray production line up.

I have yet to see a production cost per disc for each format, but if the line costs are any indication, there is a lot more margin in the HD-DVD line than Blu-Ray.

Me? I've got players for both.

[richto]

Erm no its doesnt. HD DVD is 51GB. Blu Ray is 50GB.

Erm no its doesnt. HD DVD is 51GB. Blu Ray is 50GB.

[tangokid]

Blu-ray holds more

In the bad old days of VHS vs Sony's Betamax, VHS won out
because the tapes could hold two hours, while Beta held only one
hour. Beta's quality was better, but people didn't seem to care
about that. Blu-ray's initial advantage was that the disks held more
than HD DVD disks, reversing the original problem Sony had with
Beta. It seems Blu-ray could take advantage of its greater capacity
and win the battle on that alone.

[Techknowhow]

Maybe

I don't know how much of a difference that would make as far as movies are concerned, but for data storage, it is quite a substantial advantage.

[webdev511]

Wrong...

Blu-Ray holds 50GB max on two layers. HD-DVD can hold 51GB on three, but backwards compatibility at that density hasn't been tested on all players. It has been tested at 45GB.

Even with Blu-Ray's technical advantages, it is agreed that telling the difference is difficult to tell the difference. So IMHO what's really going to decide it for studios is the cost to press discs.

Since all that's required to bring an HD-DVD line into production is retrofit an existing DVD line, it's cheaper, a LOT cheaper than bringing a blu-ray production line up.

I have yet to see a production cost per disc for each format, but if the line costs are any indication, there is a lot more margin in the HD-DVD line than Blu-Ray.

Me? I've got players for both.

[richto]

Erm no its doesnt. HD DVD is 51GB. Blu Ray is 50GB.

Erm no its doesnt. HD DVD is 51GB. Blu Ray is 50GB.

[brian_real]

All a bunch of blatherskite!

Seriously this debate is bunk. HDDVD vs. Bluray. Whatever. I have HDTV and I really don't care for replacing my dvds with either format. I'd love to buy new discs for movies and shows I don't have, but until they make up their minds I'll stick with DVD.

Truthfully speaking, I'm please with HDTV channels and tivo recorders. If I want a movie I'll go out, rent it, or even get it through my cable providerer.

I got a PS3 for Christmas and while some friends of mine agree that the games are trash right now, I still can't agree with them about the whole bluray feature making it worth owning. Frankly I don't care about that at all. If I get a game system I get it for playing games. I have other game systems that allow DVDs to be played, but I rarely do that. I prefer my standalone DVD player.

[Leria]

They should just support both

The smart people are going to start making inter-operable players that can do both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD with one player.
That is when I will switch: when we have interoperable players that do both formats as well as all old formats.

[brian_real]

All a bunch of blatherskite!

Seriously this debate is bunk. HDDVD vs. Bluray. Whatever. I have HDTV and I really don't care for replacing my dvds with either format. I'd love to buy new discs for movies and shows I don't have, but until they make up their minds I'll stick with DVD.

Truthfully speaking, I'm please with HDTV channels and tivo recorders. If I want a movie I'll go out, rent it, or even get it through my cable providerer.

I got a PS3 for Christmas and while some friends of mine agree that the games are trash right now, I still can't agree with them about the whole bluray feature making it worth owning. Frankly I don't care about that at all. If I get a game system I get it for playing games. I have other game systems that allow DVDs to be played, but I rarely do that. I prefer my standalone DVD player.

[Leria]

They should just support both

The smart people are going to start making inter-operable players that can do both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD with one player.
That is when I will switch: when we have interoperable players that do both formats as well as all old formats.

[jscott418]

I agree Who Cares?

This whole thing reminds me of Betamax vs VHS. Frankly I find
very little interest in watching something in HD. Unless you have
spent enough money on your HD TV to really capture the detail
that HD or BluRay have. You will never know the difference
except in your wallet. It's like those audiophile CD's that have
come out over the years. Better sampling rates and so on. Yet
down load music from a online service and anything is a
improvement. Let's face facts. For most people they will never
tell the difference between HD,BluRay or anything else.

[jscott418]

I agree Who Cares?

This whole thing reminds me of Betamax vs VHS. Frankly I find
very little interest in watching something in HD. Unless you have
spent enough money on your HD TV to really capture the detail
that HD or BluRay have. You will never know the difference
except in your wallet. It's like those audiophile CD's that have
come out over the years. Better sampling rates and so on. Yet
down load music from a online service and anything is a
improvement. Let's face facts. For most people they will never
tell the difference between HD,BluRay or anything else.

[Fat Drunk and Stupid]

Not Format . . . DRM = No Sale

As stupid as the HD vs BR format war is...

DRM is why I'm not buying. I don't want to buy into yet another closed format that prevents me from copying my HD or BR discs to another format.

DRM? Sorry, no sale.

[richto]

Region Restictions = No Sale

Well for most of the world, Region Control is a massive reason not to buy Blu Ray.

HD DVD is Region Free!

And it also has less DRM. No BluRay BD+ Crap that makes players take a minute just to load up a movie title screen (if they even load at all!)

[Fat Drunk and Stupid]

Not Format . . . DRM = No Sale

As stupid as the HD vs BR format war is...

DRM is why I'm not buying. I don't want to buy into yet another closed format that prevents me from copying my HD or BR discs to another format.

DRM? Sorry, no sale.

[richto]

Region Restictions = No Sale

Well for most of the world, Region Control is a massive reason not to buy Blu Ray.

HD DVD is Region Free!

And it also has less DRM. No BluRay BD+ Crap that makes players take a minute just to load up a movie title screen (if they even load at all!)

[expatincebu]

It all depends on XXX

Whatever format the porn industry chooses will be the winner. That is what decided vhs vs beta and not anything else. Adult entertainment consumers lead the way, they did with vhs, and with the internet, and they will with HD.

[SactoGuy018]

They've selected HD-DVD

Actually, the most companies that produced adult videos have selected HD-DVD, mostly because 1) they don't need the extra storage capacity of Blu-Ray discs and 2) the mastering costs are much lower. As such, expect a flood of HD-DVD format adult videos over the next year or so.

[mikalg]

Thats just plain stupid

If pimple faced teens bought porn on any format. No, wait, they are just kids with no money and can't legally buy porn.

Parents are buying the tech in the house, my son, and I can guarantee you PORN is not at the top of the Mommy/Daddy spending hard earned money for the kids to watch TV list.

[David Turner]

No it wont

You are forgetting the context of history when you make this argument.

It was important back in the VHS vs Betamax days as porn was
only available in cinemas, not many people want to go to a dirty
movie cinema. Porn coming to a home player like VHS was a
huge win. You could now buy this kind of content and watch it
in the privacy of your own home.

However now days porn is everywhere, its on the net, cable
companies set top boxes, dvd etc etc. You can get it into your
home and watch it in private very easily without HD players.

Its just not the big winner it was 20 odd years ago, not to
mention you can get this kind of content on both formats now.

[expatincebu]

It all depends on XXX

Whatever format the porn industry chooses will be the winner. That is what decided vhs vs beta and not anything else. Adult entertainment consumers lead the way, they did with vhs, and with the internet, and they will with HD.

[SactoGuy018]

They've selected HD-DVD

Actually, the most companies that produced adult videos have selected HD-DVD, mostly because 1) they don't need the extra storage capacity of Blu-Ray discs and 2) the mastering costs are much lower. As such, expect a flood of HD-DVD format adult videos over the next year or so.

[mikalg]

Thats just plain stupid

If pimple faced teens bought porn on any format. No, wait, they are just kids with no money and can't legally buy porn.

Parents are buying the tech in the house, my son, and I can guarantee you PORN is not at the top of the Mommy/Daddy spending hard earned money for the kids to watch TV list.

[David Turner]

No it wont

You are forgetting the context of history when you make this argument.

It was important back in the VHS vs Betamax days as porn was
only available in cinemas, not many people want to go to a dirty
movie cinema. Porn coming to a home player like VHS was a
huge win. You could now buy this kind of content and watch it
in the privacy of your own home.

However now days porn is everywhere, its on the net, cable
companies set top boxes, dvd etc etc. You can get it into your
home and watch it in private very easily without HD players.

Its just not the big winner it was 20 odd years ago, not to
mention you can get this kind of content on both formats now.

[cross platform]

Well I Just Bought An HD DVD Player

And I'm really pleased with it. I went HD DVD because of price and they offered more of the titles I was interested in ( Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc. ). The picture quality on my 53 inch Hitachi rear screen projection set that I bought in 2002 has never looked better. HD DVD looks marketly better than broadcast HD or regular DVDs. Not only is it sharper but the color is much better. It looks much more like seeing it in the theater now. I also think it will be a long time before either side folds. So I decided there was no point in waiting. My feeling is in the end most players will either play both or studios will release for both. I don't care what anybody says I can see the difference on my 4 year old TV and would much rather watch video that way.

[cross platform]

Well I Just Bought An HD DVD Player

And I'm really pleased with it. I went HD DVD because of price and they offered more of the titles I was interested in ( Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc. ). The picture quality on my 53 inch Hitachi rear screen projection set that I bought in 2002 has never looked better. HD DVD looks marketly better than broadcast HD or regular DVDs. Not only is it sharper but the color is much better. It looks much more like seeing it in the theater now. I also think it will be a long time before either side folds. So I decided there was no point in waiting. My feeling is in the end most players will either play both or studios will release for both. I don't care what anybody says I can see the difference on my 4 year old TV and would much rather watch video that way.

[rturner2]

PS3...

"Sony says that 3.4 million Blu-ray disc drives are also in PlayStation 3 machines, giving it a numerical advantage. But the rival camp points out that gamers are not buying the PS3 to watch movies, and in any case, 300,000 HD DVD add-on drives will have been purchased to use with the Xbox 360 game console from Microsoft."

- Gamers not buying PS3 to watch movies? WRONG, this was 50% of the reason I purchased a PS3! In addition, 3.4 million less 300,000 HD DVD for xbox gives blu-ray a lead of 3.1 million players in the market.

The studios are stupid not to release their movies on both formates IMHO.

[richto]

Oh Well at least once it the new Betamax you can still play games...

They might actually have some good ones out by then...

Quite amusing that for all the PS3s processing power, the Xbox 360 completely and uttely kicks its arse for graphics performance.

[webdev511]

I Agree, but

That's why I bought a PS3 as well, but one of the first models because I wanted full backwards compatibility with PS2 games as well as a Blu-Ray player. Just because it was a factor for us doesn't mean all the other buyers did too.

Sony's bone head move with the PS3 was leaving the Blu-Ray disc remote out of the box. Sure the game controller is functional, but it's complicated enough to make me think twice about wanting to use my PS3 to watch movies.

[rturner2]

PS3...

"Sony says that 3.4 million Blu-ray disc drives are also in PlayStation 3 machines, giving it a numerical advantage. But the rival camp points out that gamers are not buying the PS3 to watch movies, and in any case, 300,000 HD DVD add-on drives will have been purchased to use with the Xbox 360 game console from Microsoft."

- Gamers not buying PS3 to watch movies? WRONG, this was 50% of the reason I purchased a PS3! In addition, 3.4 million less 300,000 HD DVD for xbox gives blu-ray a lead of 3.1 million players in the market.

The studios are stupid not to release their movies on both formates IMHO.

[richto]

Oh Well at least once it the new Betamax you can still play games...

They might actually have some good ones out by then...

Quite amusing that for all the PS3s processing power, the Xbox 360 completely and uttely kicks its arse for graphics performance.

[webdev511]

I Agree, but

That's why I bought a PS3 as well, but one of the first models because I wanted full backwards compatibility with PS2 games as well as a Blu-Ray player. Just because it was a factor for us doesn't mean all the other buyers did too.

Sony's bone head move with the PS3 was leaving the Blu-Ray disc remote out of the box. Sure the game controller is functional, but it's complicated enough to make me think twice about wanting to use my PS3 to watch movies.

[i_am_still_wade]

$$$ It is all about the who is cheaper $$$

Anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves. At $300, an item is a luxury. At $100, it is impulse buy. At $50 it is a must buy. For the informed, which are few and far between, they will commit to a side or buy a universal player or buy two players. Most people are probably waiting for an affordable priced universal player.

[richto]

That woudld be HD DVD then.

That would be HD DVD then.

In every respect.

e.g. cost of players, cost of disks, cost of mastering, cost of manufacturing plant.

[i_am_still_wade]

$$$ It is all about the who is cheaper $$$

Anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves. At $300, an item is a luxury. At $100, it is impulse buy. At $50 it is a must buy. For the informed, which are few and far between, they will commit to a side or buy a universal player or buy two players. Most people are probably waiting for an affordable priced universal player.

[richto]

That woudld be HD DVD then.

That would be HD DVD then.

In every respect.

e.g. cost of players, cost of disks, cost of mastering, cost of manufacturing plant.

[old_fot]

As is the rule the entertainment industry is clueless

If the clueless leaders of the movie studios were paying attention there would be no format war in the high definition disc arena. All that would have been required was to tell Sony and Toshiba to get their act together behind a single HD disc format before any movies would be released on HD disc.

There is one very important difference between Blue ray and HD DVD besides capacity and that is the fact that the surface of a Blu Ray disc is hardened to prevent scratches while HD DVD is just as easily scratched as DVD. With the greater capacities of the two formats a scratch that would not be a problem with a DVD could render an HD DVD unplayable.

It is truly unfortunate that the studios, Toshiba and Sony have put potential profit ahead of their customers.

[old_fot]

As is the rule the entertainment industry is clueless

If the clueless leaders of the movie studios were paying attention there would be no format war in the high definition disc arena. All that would have been required was to tell Sony and Toshiba to get their act together behind a single HD disc format before any movies would be released on HD disc.

There is one very important difference between Blue ray and HD DVD besides capacity and that is the fact that the surface of a Blu Ray disc is hardened to prevent scratches while HD DVD is just as easily scratched as DVD. With the greater capacities of the two formats a scratch that would not be a problem with a DVD could render an HD DVD unplayable.

It is truly unfortunate that the studios, Toshiba and Sony have put potential profit ahead of their customers.