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January 11, 2005 4:00 AM PST

Newsmaker: How the Mac was born, and other tales

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the source code; I can't modify it. Whereas when it's open, any kid can come in there, do their thing. Making money is a different story--it's complicated and very dependent on the details. But I believe you can have a much healthier environment.

What do you see for the future of intellectual property on this stuff?
That's one of the great questions, I think, for the next 10 to 20 years. Not just code but the entertainment bits, music and video. I think eventually it will work itself out like all technological changes in the past. Essentially the record companies will be happy (that) people are file sharing 10 years from now because it means people are listening to their music. Of course, what a record company is, is going to undergo a redefinition.

My values are simple, the greatest value for the greatest number. Free music flowing--it's like a boon for mankind; it makes everyone's lives better. I don't think it necessarily has to undermine people's businesses. It's certainly better for the artists--I think you maybe get better music on a system where the artists rather than the executives are getting the lion's share of compensation.

I'm a big BitTorrent user and chagrined that they shut down SuprNova two days ago--where the SuprNova guys decided to punt because of various legal pressures. Clearly a mistake on behalf of the music companies, because here you have this site that could help them get a handle on it. By putting it out of business

My values are simple, the greatest value for the greatest number. Free music flowing--it's like a boon for mankind; it makes everyone's lives better.
all it will do is make the stealth systems stealthier. There's obvious things you could do to BitTorrent where you wouldn't need the central site--that's just going to happen sooner. Suing your customers is not a winning strategy. The contradictions are amazing. For the last 40-some years they've been paying radio stations to broadcast their music for free. It's really hard for me to see the big difference between that and file sharing.

What's the next business or process to be disrupted by technology the way the music and movie industries have been?
Politics, and we've seen the stirrings of that in the last election cycle. Eventually the fact that everyone can be connected to each other through this open system with all the information at their fingertips should have a profound effect on our political system, hopefully repairing it. I look at the last election result and I think, "Something's broken." The Net is going to impact every single business you can think of--it already has to some degree. It's sort of at a midpoint, maybe. It's ready for its bar mitzvah, not for its marriage.

Blogging is changing the way people communicate. Are you a blogger?
No. I think people overrate blogging. I think the overall phenomenon to me is Web pages. Blogs are just Web pages, a certain stylized form of Web page. Much of the blogging is driven by egotism.

I'm down on podcasts. I think that's ridiculous. Suddenly you're taking the information and making it completely inaccessible. You can't read it, and besides a podcast is nothing. It's streaming MP3s that's good, but no one can take credit for inventing a new term because streaming MP3s is simple and has been around for a while. Doing it through RSS enclosures is basically bad--to automatically download big files before hearing them. The whole thing about audio is that it has small enough bandwidth that you can stream. You just can't stream from an iPod because it doesn't have a network connection, yet. I'm excited about getting an iPod with 802.11 so I can stream to my AirPort Express without carrying my Mac around.

Bill Gates, to try to get me to sell him Switcher at a low price, used an extremely logical and analytical approach. Steve Jobs used an extremely intuitive approach.
Back to the Mac. What's the coolest piece of memorabilia you have from your days of working on it?
I'd say my wire-wrap prototype. I have the third wire-wrap board. If you've ever seen a wire-wrap you know why I'd say it's fascinating. It's got thousands of wires wrapped around pins in the back. It was the third Mac prototype ever made. I had two of them and one of them I donated to the Computer Museum. Burrell has one; there's two others.

I have this great letter from Bill Gates that's on my Folklore site but they wouldn't let me put it in the book...about my Switcher program. The story in the book is how I had a negotiation with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates at separate times for selling them the same program. I tried to write it in such a way that really contrasted their world views. Bill Gates--to try to get me to sell him Switcher at a low price--used an extremely logical and analytical approach. Steve Jobs used an extremely intuitive approach--no reasoning behind his number at all. But just, "I'm right!"

What's next for you?
If the book does really well, I'd like to do a sequel-prequel type thing of all the early Apple stories, mainly starring Steve Wozniak. I have a great set of stories that have never been written up in that time frame.

Give us an example of a Steve Wozniak story.
Here's a really quick one that follows off a story that is in the book, about Steve Jobs parking in the handicapped spaces--he always parked in the handicapped spaces. One day in October 1983 I got a phone call at my desk at Apple from the Cupertino police saying something like, "You reported that car parked in the handicapped space. Well, we can't really tow it away because the handicapped space is not properly marked." I said, "What?"

Well, it turned out that Woz called up the Cupertino police reporting Steve Jobs' car illegally parked in a handicapped space and told them the person reporting it was Andy Hertzfeld and gave them my phone number. So that was a prank on both me and Steve Jobs; it just didn't quite come off, thank God. I could have just imagined Steve having to go check out his car and finding out that Andy Hertzfeld had reported it.  

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Add a Comment (Log in or register) (6 Comments)
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I think the Mac Mini will be very popular....
by January 16, 2005 1:37 PM PST
http://www.FreeMiniMacs.com/?r=13956630
Reply to this comment
I love the Mac Mini
by March 7, 2005 4:42 PM PST
I've used Macs sincd aboout 1985 or 1986. I was sold when I
read Steve Jobs' great interview in Playboy. Recently my wife,
who has never use a computer was given a new Mac Mini by our
son. Of course I had to teach her to use it, so when my son said,
"Well, Dad, I'd better upgrade you from your old G3 Ibook", I
said, "Make it just like your Moms'!" It's tiny and so quiet. I'm
typing this on hers, and the Ibook sits languishing at my desk.
Mine should be here in a week or so,

We are retired and I'm 75; my wife is, well, younger.

I think the Mini will be immensely popular.

Vern Weiss
Thanks Andy.
by February 27, 2005 6:42 PM PST
Great interview. Really enjoy your viewpoints and openness.
Reply to this comment
The contradictions are amazing????
by April 11, 2005 10:18 PM PDT
There are NO contradictions with record companies paying radio stations to broadcast their music for free to ADVERTISE them and the STEALING of their product. So Andy Hertzfeld FLUNKS both the use of logic and common sense.

Neil C. Reinhardt
Reply to this comment
Andy's book now a free audio download
by carmean May 25, 2006 9:01 PM PDT
Andy Hertzfeld's book, "Revolution in the Valley: The Insanely Great
Story of How the Mac Was Made" is being recorded by Derek Warren
as a freely downloadable audio book.

Check out Macintosh Folklore Radio at http://folklore.trideja.com/
Reply to this comment
by csminor January 27, 2009 10:22 AM PST
Dear Mr. Jobs,

I have received a lot of emails and news about the 25th anniversary of the MAC. First, I wanted to wish you well in your pending medical issues and that my prayers are with you and your family. Second, you change my life or I would say Apple changed my life. I was one of the first students to receive the MAC 128 at Drexel university. I remember that day as if it was only yesterday. I got my picture taken in the Apple magazine and was interviewed. One of the biggest reasons I chose Drexel at the time was because all incoming freshmen were required to receive a MAC. That year was 1983. Drexel was not sure when they would receive the new computers and we as students we are asked to pick dates. It was more or less like a lottery drawing. I picked Tuesday at 9:00am with my best friend. That was the first day of handing out the new MAC 128. For the last twenty five years I have been working for technology companies. IBM did put a damper on my Apple passion. I have not used a MAC computer since Drexel but that has not damper my passion. I have purchased over the last several years five IPods, Airport N router, Apple TV and the I phone (original version). Innovation, agility and Industrial design are the pillars that make Apple great. It is on my wish list to buy the Mac book pro for myself and my daughter. I can only imagine what it would be like for her in the next twenty-five years.

The reason I am writing this letter to you is that you/Apple kick started my passion for computers and the industry. In addition, I am stuck in Tulsa because of weather calling on one of our clients. I have been a CEO and senior Executive at many technology companies for the last twenty years. I have read and study the rise and fall of many companies. Apple with YOU at the stewardship have brought back Apple to the fore-front of consumers and business. We the introduction of the Air book last year, App store for Iphone and green initiatives. A lot of my senior executive strategy meetings are focused around what is Apple doing and how do we harness the innovation that they bring to the market. Apple has again revolutionized the PC industry and many people?s passion.

Apple keep up the great work and never forget the lessons from the past. Look forward to many more years of great products and people. If your travels ever take you to the wonderful Keystone state of PA please look up the company I work for called InfoLogix. We are working hard to do what you have done for apple in the mobility space.

Warmest Regards,
Scott Minor




C Scott Minor
Vice President of Services & Solutions



InfoLogix, Inc.
101 E. County Line Road
Hatboro, PA 19040
sminor@InfoLogix.com
215.604.0691 x 1111
610-608-4212
www.InfoLogix.com





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