September 24, 2006 6:05 AM PDT

Honda unveils diesel system to rival gasoline cars

Carmaker says it has developed a new and simple diesel power train that is as clean as gasoline-fueled cars.

The story "Honda unveils diesel system to rival gasoline cars" published September 24, 2006 at 6:05 AM is no longer available on CNET News.

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Don't discount...
Don't discount the company that was the first to get 1000/hp
per liter out of a turbo exotic fuel car. Even Audi, with the
researchi might of VAG behind them can't get that kind of
performance out of a gas or diesel engine today.

However - it appears that Diesel is finally ascendant. Audi's win
of LeMans with a Diesel and the increasing realization that
power per unit of fuel (instead of miles per tank) is the prime
metric in internal combustion may change the tide of America's
appetite for stinky, terrorist-controlled, overly-refined, and
overly-polluting gasoline.

And someone please put a nail in Corn's coffin - or a bullet in
it's head. Sugar is far more efficient an ethanol alcohol source
(since alcohol is synthesized from sugar, and sugar cane
contains more sugar per pound than corn, among other reasons)
and sugar cane costs far less in capital, energy, water, and time
to grow than corn.

Kill this midwest-born, government subsidized boondoggle
before it kills our economy! E95 is OK - but only when it comes
from real sugar cane.
Posted by Hep Cat (440 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Cane is irrelevant
We can't grow enough of it here in the US. It is a great solution for central/south America. Beets are a far better solution for us. We can grow them in a much larger part of the country.

I must admit I have never been a big fan of turning land used for making food into land used for making fuel while people are starving in the world. A much better solution would be to find ways to convert garbage into fuel (Methane cracking plants and stuff)
Posted by ralfthedog (1589 comments )
Link Flag
Typical Slow Americans...
As usual, America lags behind the rest of the CIVILISED WORLD.

This was new back in 2005 and was all over the telly in the UK. Here's the advert (<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwRCBHhyrAA" target="_newWindow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwRCBHhyrAA</a>).
Posted by booboo1243 (328 comments )
Reply Link Flag
America Trailing
And yet, the USA economy has grown in the last 25 years from 1/4
to 1/3 of the global GDP. Isn't it amazing what such stupid people
can do? ;-)
Posted by Ron Bischof (63 comments )
Link Flag
typical ignorant brit
as usual, someone from the uk jumps the gun and decides to take an unwarranted shot at a whole nation without even having their facts straight.

you see up on top of the article? where it says 'reuters'? now would little boo boo know where reuters is from? take your time looking it up. i don't want to interrupt your tea break.
Posted by Sam Papelbon (242 comments )
Link Flag
also...
...we're really, really fat.
Posted by wangbang (155 comments )
Link Flag
hersey
The only real answer is to get rid of private transportation and move into the 21st century with public transport
Posted by mpotter28 (130 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Public transportation only works for high density areas
Only by stacking people into undersized, overpriced areas like New York do you get the densities of people who can make a public transportation system viable. In most US cities that density doesn't exist and it's simply too expensive to run public transportation to every neighborhood.
Posted by aabcdefghij987654321 (1721 comments )
Link Flag
biodiesel = clean diesel
Just get biodiesel into that honda motor and we are set to take off for a fresh start. It's just like ethanol that started off great and got fallen back now it's up again with new techs, diesel has 2 things in it's favor: biodiesel and H2B.
Posted by ramonklown (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
yes it is...
Biodiesel certainly is fairly clean... its a shame its economics and future supply are insufficient to make it a total solution.
Posted by David Arbogast (1709 comments )
Link Flag
Ummm, nitrogen isn't harmless
Nitrogen kills people. It's an asphyxiant.

I can only assume that the author of the article intended to say that the chemical concentrations of the exhaust contain a small enough quantity of nitrogen to be harmless.
Posted by Christopher Hall (1205 comments )
Reply Link Flag
ummm, yes it is.
It's an intert gas. Earth's atmosphere contains 78.08% nitrogen by volume. You have inhaled more nitrogen in your life than any other gas (including Oxygen). It's also a "constituent element of all living tissues". Check Wikipedia: <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen" target="_newWindow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen</a>

Get your facts and presumptions straight before posting comments.
Posted by jazzwall07 (4 comments )
Link Flag
Nitrogen kill people!!!??? -:(
No it doesn't. 78% of Earth's atmosphere is nitrogen. Yeah, if you breath pure nitrogen you will die. Even pure oxygen will you for that matter.

here is a link for quick look

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth" target="_newWindow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth</a>'s_atmosphere#Composition
Posted by The_Nirvana (104 comments )
Link Flag
UMMMM, Yes it is harmless
It's an intert gas. Earth's atmosphere contains 78.08% nitrogen by volume. You have inhaled more nitrogen in your life than any other gas (including Oxygen). It's also a "constituent element of all living tissues". Check Wikipedia: <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen" target="_newWindow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen</a>

Get your facts and presumptions straight before posting comments.
Posted by jazzwall07 (4 comments )
Link Flag
Air is about 70% nitrogen
About the only danger you're going to get from nitrogen fumes is if it increases the content to the point there isn't enough oxygen... which isn't likely unless you added massive quantities.
Posted by Seaspray0 (9714 comments )
Link Flag
christopher hall should go back to grade school
where we learned the component gases of earth's atmosphere.
Posted by stealt403 (48 comments )
Link Flag
You people didn't (or most likely can't) read
I refer you to my second paragraph:
"I can only assume that the author of the article intended to say that the chemical concentrations of the exhaust contain a small enough quantity of nitrogen to be harmless."

I'm fully aware that molecular nitrogen comprises a majority of breathable air. I was pointing out that in high enough concentrations nitrogen will kill you, which in my book hardly classifies as "harmless".

For those of you linking Wikipedia (you use that as a chemistry text? HA!), try picking up an MSDS sometime. Here, enjoy:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.uigi.com/MSDS_gaseous_N2.html" target="_newWindow">http://www.uigi.com/MSDS_gaseous_N2.html</a>
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www-conf.slac.stanford.edu/cryo2006/proc/present/MSDS_N.PDF#search=%22nitrogen%20msds%22" target="_newWindow">http://www-conf.slac.stanford.edu/cryo2006/proc/present/MSDS_N.PDF#search=%22nitrogen%20msds%22</a>
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.vngas.com/pdf/g7.pdf#search=%22nitrogen%20msds%22" target="_newWindow">http://www.vngas.com/pdf/g7.pdf#search=%22nitrogen%20msds%22</a>

And after reading those you're still not convinced, go take a nice big lung-full of concentrated nitrogen. You won't be missed.
Posted by Christopher Hall (1205 comments )
Link Flag
But what about Dihydogen monoxide?
It's nasty stuff!
Posted by Clouseau2 (329 comments )
Link Flag
Not so sure that sugar is better
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://domesticfuel.com/?p=784" target="_newWindow">http://domesticfuel.com/?p=784</a>

Producing ethanol from sugar cane or sugar beets in the U.S. would cost about 2 1/2 times more than it costs to produce it from corn. That is according to a long-awaited USDA study on the economics of producing ethanol from sugar authored by the agriculture departments top economist Keith Collins. The detailed report compares production scenerios for sugar cane, beets, raw sugar and molasses adding the net cost of the feedstock to the processing cost to derive a total cost per gallon.

The bottom line, according to the report, is this:USDA

Corn &&&&&. 1.05/gallon ethanol
Cane &&&&&. 2.40/gallon ethanol
Beets &&&&& 2.35/gallon ethanol
Raw sugar &&& 3.48/gallon ethanol
Processed sugar.. 3.97/gallon ethanol
Molasses &&&.. 1.27/gallon ethanol
Posted by insanegeek (17 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Honda is really stepping up
Glad to see honda stepping up to the plate. It seems the Japanese companies are the ones looking most to long term technology advances.
Posted by (402 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Ford needs to do this rather than closing plants
a) Acquires dielsel technology for their entire car line.

b) Keep workers employed so someone will be able to afford to buy the cars.
Posted by Too Old For IT (351 comments )
Link Flag
so is water
anything will asphyxiate you
you need oxygen to live
however 80 percet (approx) of our atmosphere is nitrogen
I'd say that makes it pretty harmless
Posted by ldhoover1 (11 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Honda RAWKS
Honda is the Google of automakers. They produce great products and actually strive to beat safety and emissions deadlines as opposed to just 'meeting' them. Plus, they make nice, utterly-reliable cars, period. No wonder they sell more cars in America than most American companies.

The downside is that their's are more expensive than similar products.
Posted by jerseyrich (25 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Why?
Thanks for the link, but really, why the US-bashing? Does it add anything to your post? Make you feel a little better about your country or something? Really, I'd like to know because if you had read the article:

&gt;&gt; Honda said on MONDAY its new diesel drive train features a unique...

Obviously the statements this article was based on were just released yesterday, which is why it's on multiple news feeds this morning -- and not all US-based news sources by the way.

This isn't an example of America *lagging* behind anyone. No reason to be rude, you know?
Posted by jjones730 (10 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Reply to booboo1243
Bah, meant as a reply to booboo1243's post. :( Having a bad browser day.
Posted by jjones730 (10 comments )
Link Flag
Yes we need it
Honda is doing a great thing...
As more and more high paying jobs go to India, we need smaller and cheaper fuel cars.
Posted by andy_23 (7 comments )
Reply Link Flag
New Diesel Combustion Cycle???
The Best controlled Combustion Cycles were perfected with Grants from US President Richard Nixons Administration, by about 1972. For Gasoline, the Texaco Controlled Combustion Cycle, and the Mann Diesel Controlled Combustion Cycle; both use engine fuel from small, cheap even protable refineries; as these controlled combustion cycles have no octane requirement and no cetane requirement, can use low octane gasoline and low cetne diesel, produced form small, cheap refineries, in half the amount of crude oil feed stock, as the amount used by the gigantic high octan , high cetane conventional refineries. engine fuel from hjalf the crude oil feedstock as the supergiantic, super wasteful refineries. These high octane, high cetane refineries burn up half their crude oil feedstock to refine the other half. SDThis is what has supported the worlds high crude oil feedstock prices since 1972. A political agreement enforced by the iggantic super-monopolistic Terrotists. These Two Controlled Combustion Cycles cut the need for crude oil in half. The US army has been using an Early version of the Mann Diesel Controlled Copmbustion Process, since the 1950s, and possess smal, portable refineries that produce kerosene, off which, all US Army Diesels engines can run. Both do require a Roert I. Borsch type Direct Cyclinder Fuel Injection Systems. The Oil Psroducers, and sdtheir American Allies, and the US Domestic Oil Industsry, got rid of Nixon before he could mandate the exclusinve use of these two processes. It would have made the large refineries obselete; and drove down the world oil prices to about 8 to 10 dollars per barrel. Monopolistic practices drove up the take of the Oil Pirates to Seven Trillion Dolllars over normal clearing prices; but the blocking of the controlled combustion cycles, probably allowed OPEC and other Oil Producers to take more than 21 Trillion dollars out of the West's Economies. NATO was betrayed by Secret New Standard Oil Trust-OPEC-International Oil Producers Monopoly. The President of the Standard Oil Trust was convicted of dynamiting a competitor's refinery, and sent to Sing Sing Prison for Two Years in 1896. It was broken up, became Esso, etc., then EXXON-Mobile, joins up with Chevron-Texaco, BP, Shell, the Saudis, OPEC, the Soviets-now Russians,Mexico, all other big oil exporters. The controlling stockholder of the Revived Secret Standard Oil Trust, is the worlds number on Financier of Terrorism, not Osama BinLaden, nor his Saudi Society Buddies.
Posted by Zeno77 (12 comments )
Reply Link Flag
New Combustion Cycle???
The Best controlled Combustion Cycles were perfected with Grants from US President Richard Nixons Administration, by about 1972. For Gasoline, the Texaco Controlled Combustion Cycle, and the Mann Diesel Controlled Combustion Cycle; both use engine fuel from small, cheap even protable refineries; as these controlled combustion cycles have no octane requirement and no cetane requirement, can use low octane gasoline and low cetne diesel, produced form small, cheap refineries, in half the amount of crude oil feed stock, as the amount used by the gigantic high octan , high cetane conventional refineries. engine fuel from hjalf the crude oil feedstock as the supergiantic, super wasteful refineries. These high octane, high cetane refineries burn up half their crude oil feedstock to refine the other half. SDThis is what has supported the worlds high crude oil feedstock prices since 1972. A political agreement enforced by the iggantic super-monopolistic Terrotists. These Two Controlled Combustion Cycles cut the need for crude oil in half. The US army has been using an Early version of the Mann Diesel Controlled Copmbustion Process, since the 1950s, and possess smal, portable refineries that produce kerosene, off which, all US Army Diesels engines can run. Both do require a Roert I. Borsch type Direct Cyclinder Fuel Injection Systems. The Oil Psroducers, and sdtheir American Allies, and the US Domestic Oil Industsry, got rid of Nixon before he could mandate the exclusinve use of these two processes. It would have made the large refineries obselete; and drove down the world oil prices to about 8 to 10 dollars per barrel. Monopolistic practices drove up the take of the Oil Pirates to Seven Trillion Dolllars over normal clearing prices; but the blocking of the controlled combustion cycles, probably allowed OPEC and other Oil Producers to take more than 21 Trillion dollars out of the West's Economies. NATO was betrayed by Secret New Standard Oil Trust-OPEC-International Oil Producers Monopoly. The President of the Standard Oil Trust was convicted of dynamiting a competitor's refinery, and sent to Sing Sing Prison for Two Years in 1896. It was broken up, became Esso, etc., then EXXON-Mobile, joins up with Chevron-Texaco, BP, Shell, the Saudis, OPEC, the Soviets-now Russians,Mexico, all other big oil exporters. The controlling stockholder of the Revived Secret Standard Oil Trust, is the worlds number on Financier of Terrorism, not Osama BinLaden, nor his Saudi Society Buddies.
Posted by Zeno77 (12 comments )
Reply Link Flag
dude >
Get Zuned!
Posted by gmycyk191 (32 comments )
Link Flag
But then again
But then again , how soon we forget that the first generation Japanese cars sold in the US were really terrible poorly made imitation junk and rubbish!( Toyota Tiara and equallly crappy 1st gen Datsun(Nissan's original name) Bluebird)

We also forget that all Japanese R&#38;D is both fully wired into and integrated into the needs of limited mass production runs!

We also forget, that the Japanese were not adverse to the outright wholesale theft of other people's ideas and concepts(all high power japanese motorbike companies for two stroke motors, literally must owe the old DKW East German works billions of yen in unpaid royalties)

We also forget, many other key factors, which could fill a book!

Me, I would force all US car designers/engineers/line managers/senior exec's/accountants to drive the least popular base model sold, so they san see the problems of poor quality control and other simple correctable production line faults, and glaring design defects and incompatabilities!
Posted by heystoopid (691 comments )
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