Fiddling with format while DVDs burn

As electronics giants pick sides in the latest format battle for the video disc of the future, many consumers are bypassing discs entirely.
The New York Times

The story "Fiddling with format while DVDs burn" published January 1, 2006 at 6:00 AM is no longer available on CNET News.

Content from The New York Times expires after 7 days.

[rcrusoe]

Sony vs Microsoft

FWIW, if the choice comes down to siding with either Sony or
Microsoft, I choose to read more books and forget about any
new disc players.

I used to love Sony products, but they continue to want
everything to use one of their formats, which puts them in the
same camp as MS. And the capper is their recent boneheaded
(criminal?) DRM efforts.

I suspect that downloaded media will replace both these formats
except for backup, etc. purposes.

[bob blob]

sony vs....MS?!?!

Dude, did you even read the article? Where does Microsoft come into this picture? The HD-DVD format is being championed by TOSHIBA! ...seeing as how Toshiba developed the format.

Freudian slip? probably just another MS basher.

[Earl Benser]

I go with space...

...besides, despite MS's less-than=valiant efforts, HD-DVD may be
dead before it gets to the starting gate. Blu-Ray makes my day, or
should, if it makes it the consumer level.

[bob blob]

please see above

.

[Jerry Dawson]

Daft enough?

Is anybody daft enough to pay $25 for something that most probably costs less than $1 to manufacture and you can get via cable anyway?

That's the question...

[Dachi]

Re: Daft enough?

Why bother asking a question that already has an obvious answer. I don't buy DVD's but obviously many people do. Also, if I rent a movie from Blockbuster or NetFlix, then they bought the movie I rented. Whether I buy the DVD or Netflix does, it is still a sale in the eyes of the movie industry.

[VI Joker]

Impaitence

Sometimes the movie is available on DVD before it is available on-demand, and people do not always want to wait for it to be on demand. Also to my knowledge on-demand does not store every movie that station has every played, just the ones that are playing that particular month. So if you wanted to want Matrix, and HBO, Showtime, Starz, Cinemax, etc. are not playing it you would need the DVD. However, I could be wrong.

[Michael G.]

DVD Movies for $25.00 each? Forget it!

DVD movies in general are a wasteful expense. Most movies are not really designed to be viewed more than twice, before they become stale. The only thing I use my DVD player for are live concert performances, and most of those don't need to be in high-definition. As for movies, I either record them with a DVR or I get them "on demand" with Time Warner Cable. So I won't be buying into Blu-Ray or HD DVD in the near future. The only thing these discs might be good for is gaming...that'll be a good selling point for Blu-Ray, since Toshiba doesn't produce game consoles.

[whoperson]

Who pays $25 for a DVD????

Yes, it's obvious you don't buy DVDs. I can't remember the last time I paid as much as $25 for a DVD. It's true that the list price for many DVDs is in the $25 range, but a good number are lower, and nearly all retailers sell them at a substantial discount. Most of my recent purchases have been in the $5 to $15 range. I take the opposite view - I don't want to pay $60+/month for cable with a movie channel or two when for the same money I can buy 6+ DVDs of stuff I actually want to watch. I've had cable and satellite in the past and even with 100+ channels, there were times when there was nothing on I wanted to watch. Buying DVDs actually gives me more options to watch what I want to watch when I want to watch it. To me, it's cable that is wasteful expense.

[Sentinel]

Looks good enough

My DVDs look good enough for me. I don't need more high definition. Nor do I need any more "Director's Commentary" or "Making of". I don't really care how challenging the role was for the actors or how the script was written. Because DVDs have so much space, the studios have felt the need to include many useless features which don't really add any value to the movie itself, but does add to the price (which is what they care about). Now there may be people who actually care about this stuff, but in most movies, I just watch the movie and then I'm done with it. As a consumer, movie studios are going to have to come up with something other than catchy names like Blu-Ray or HD-DVD to get me interested in acquiring new discs. Because frankly, I don't care about the format, I care about the content, the movie itself.

Today's DVDs have enough quality. How could they look even better? Would the human eye be able to see the difference? Would I buy all my movies all over because the new versions look noticeably better?

But giving the consumers what they want is not really what this debate is about. It is about imposing a new standard that will give them more dough. It is about forcing the consumer to re-buy all the digital content he already owns, from movies to movie players (I gather the new formats are not readable by today's DVD players). It is about taking away the consumers' fair use rights by limiting the number of copies he can make of any content he owns. And don't even think about piracy. The companies aren't loosing any money. Where can I see the exact quantity of dollars they have lost, to the last dime? Even the worst movie to come out makes at least 8 to 10 million dollars, be it on the big screen or on DVD sales. That's enough to pay for the production of the movie and the actors. And if the actors feel underpaid, then maybe they should get smaller houses, Toyotas instead of Ferraris and get day jobs.

[fear_and_loathing]

you know...

Some idiot self-proclaimed "videophile" out there is going to
make the the comment "I can totally see the difference between
my old DVD's and HD-DVD's. There's no way I can go back to
watching plain old DVD's! The $25 per is TOTALLY worth it!"

When the X-box 360 came out they were interviewing the
morons that were camping over night to get one and they asked
some kid what was better about the 360... his reply... "better
graphics, in the basketball game, you can actually see their
sweat."
Does that really inhance game play???

That's why companies do this. Because people THINK that they
need those extra pixels, and they're willing to pay through the
nose for them.

I completely agree with you, My DVD's look fine, even played
through my 10 year old non-progressive scan DVD player on to
my 8 year old non-HD TV. I haven't seen any less then a person
watching through a $700 DVD player on a $10,000 plasma
screen TV.

[skeptik]

do you HD?

Do you even have a HD TV? You can definitely see the quality improvement. Just because you can't doesn't negate the whole argument.
My pops is happy with AM radio. Does that mean anything beyond that is marketing hype?

[tashman]

Yawn

Why would I purchase a DVD that I don't really own, can't make copies of for my own use and if it breaks or gets scratched I can't request replacement media. Not to mention that in 10 years they will do it all to us again.

LISTEN UP RIAA and MPA. You have lost your exclusive right to control our media habits. The world is moving to a model where the content is your advertisement, your way into the homes of others, and is free. I will continue to pay for services from the artists that I feel benefit them instead of you. Goodbye fatcats.

Tim

[Dachi]

Re: Yawn

How touching. You do know that you are in the minority and the MPAA will basically just continue to see double digit year on year gains right?

Seriously, don't have a tree to live in?

[wynnb]

Cable Hi-Def On Demand

My Comcast Cable "on demand" seems to have it all; Hi-Def, Lo-Def... I think the hardware folks really did miss this one.

[markdoiron]

What I Want

what i want ****MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE**** isn't higher definition video; better quality sound; or a complicated, new drm scheme. this is because i feel that current dvd technology delivers quite nice video (better might be . . technically better, but who cares?), that the sound i hear now is quite nice (but i use a real stereo system with 16-inch woofers instead of a high-tech 5-inch system that tries to make up for its shortcomings with a "sub-woofer"), and because drm gets in the way of WHAT I REALLY, REALLY WANT: to place my movie collection onto a medium (think hard drive, but other answers are possible) that allows me to scroll through that entire movie collection and then select a video to view--no fuss looking for a disk that's far too much like the hassles of 360-kb floppy disks on my ibm pc jr. and no risk that my online movie "collection" will disappear because business model "a" didn't work out, the company got bought out by business "z", and they have terminated further online movie services because they can make more money re-selling me the same product format-migrated to the latest, gee-whiz player.

so, as far as i'm concerned, dvd's (all flavors) and online movies are mere delivery services. and, once delivered i own the movie and i can place it into my collection by "ripping" it to my movie player of choice. and if i buy a new movie player, i can rerip it, or restore a back-up that has been safely stowed away (for those online deliveries, that is).

what i don't want are things that remind me of that pc jr experience--feeding disks sucked then and still sucks today. i also don't want to be at the whim of mfg's who want to repeatedly sell me the same product in a new format, or the technophiles who think that hd-dvd or blu-ray is going to win because it's the better tech--they all miss the ****more than anything else**** point of what i, the average joe blow consumer, want.

is that too much to ask? notice i never said i want to give videos i buy away, or to share them on the internet--though i do demand my legal right of first sale. and i do feel quite strongly that those who make the movies deserve to be fairly compensated--one time!

if a company ever makes that product--and it doesn't have to be all hardware, perhaps a plethora of competitive online services somewhat like mp3.com's "my mp3 collection"--they'll make a killing as compared to all this muss and fuss over technical upgrades that make the consumer's life ever more complicated, and add very little to the end user experience.

mark d.

[madjo]

What I _really_ want...

... is better quality in movies/music, and with that I don't mean image quality, but rather films that are actually worth viewing, and music actually worth listening to. Not movies/songs that insult me.

Once the 'industry' starts doing that, I might consider upgrading my cd-player to a dvd-player whether it is Blu-Ray or HD-dvd, though I still have a SD-tv, so there would still be no use for me for either format.

[skeptik]

Word!!!

You sir, are an enlightened consumer. I tip my hat to you.
One thing I would add is that I want a database system that will allow me to scroll by actor, director, etc not just movie name.

Fact:
Since I have been able to burn DVDs I have spent FAR more on movies than ever before. True I buy less movies (but DO still buy some), but I spend more on rentals now than I did on rentals and straight purchases combined before. Probaly about 3 times as much.
So the industry really needs to realize that if they stop trying to screw consumers out of their dollars and try making friends and giving them the options and flexibility they want the consumers will gladly spend more.

[Freiheit13]

Battle more about locking content than what consumers want

The fight between the Blu-ray and HD-DVD groups is based at least as much on different views of how the studios can lock down content to ensure that consumers never have any rights as it is on different views of what consumers want. If the high price of DVDs (and audio CDs) relative to the media that they replaced is any indication, the studios and record companies care naught for what consumers want; they just want our money.

[Orion Blastar]

VHS vs. BetaMax all over again.

HD-DVD is VHS, and Blu-Ray is BetaMax.

Guess which one becomes the standard, affordable solution that the majority of the market goes with? HD-DVD!

Guess which one is better, but only a few like Sony support at higher prices? Blu-Ray.

Guess which DVD players the public is going to buy more of? Get the prices under $100 for the HD-DVD players and the public will buy them. Until then, the standard DVD players under $100 will continue to sell, despite not having HD-TV abilities.

Oh by the way, those DVD Copy Protections in HD-DVD and Blu-Ray DVD will be broken just like the original protections on the standard DVD formats were broken. People will always have a need for creating a backup. I suspect companies outside of the USA will provide the DVD Copy software for the new HD-DVD and Blu-Ray formats.

I am sticking with my VHS, standard DVD, and Tivo players, they work good enough for me. I do not really need HD-TV features. Not until the prices on HD-TV technology becomes reasonable enough to afford for me.

[GrandpaN1947]

Sony leads Blu-ray

You just answered the question about which format I will be buying, but you waited till near the end of the article to convince me. I will not buy anything made by or supported by SONY.

I don't trust them.

Neither!

I'll buy one of these:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.inphase-technologies.com/" target="_newWindow">http://www.inphase-technologies.com/</a>
Not a hollywood crippled device.

[Earl Benser]

Expensive....

.... and not pre-recordable. Excellent user storage medium for
those who can afford one, not usable at all for selling movies.
Looks like you're still stuck with some form of DVD.....

[Vetter83]

Who thinks this crap up??

I will buy NIETHER!!
I wont end up on the 'betamax' version end of this silly, egocentric, corporate battle over 'preferred format'. If these idiots arent grown up enough to settle the issue, Ill vote with my money!! (or lack thereof..)
The asylum is being run by the inmates....

[politix]

Home Video will ensure DVD success

On demand video is great. Cable on demand will not replace DVDR, HD DVD, or Blue Ray. People will always want to edit and store there own home created videos.

[Zymurgist]

Don't be so sure...

The entertainment industry is very wary of
amateur cinema and online distribution of
non-corporate content. Some very good stuff is
turning up online, and there's things like
BroadcastMachine that allow people to basically
slap together their own online TV station (on
demand, syndicated via RSS).

Right now they are working primarily on locking
down video hardware to prevent copying, but the
legislation would also affect home video
production/storage/distribution. Another bill
before congress prohibitting non-corporate
digitization of analog signals will further
complicate things.

It's highly probable that in the near term
home-video won't be permitted to interoperate
with consumer televisions, DVD players, and
personal computers. It would seem that whatever
technological constraints and interferences that
would hamper home video production would also be
covered by the DMCA and thus be a felony to
circumvent.

[techguy83]

you hit the nail right on the head

This is not for us really. It is a way for them to control what we can and cannot do with our media that we buy.

As as for the 8-10 million per movie, that really sucks because it gives lousy directors like uwe boll the ability to continue to ruin video games and such.

Alone in the Dark- flop
Bloodrayne- will flop with lousy acting
upcoming dungeon seige movie- will flop with his bad directing
upcoming hunter movie- u guessed it, flops.

[techguy83]

oops

this was a reply to an above post.

[bobby_brady]

No compelling reason for HD DVD/Blue Ray - too much DRM

on top of it. Movies look just fine on my DVD. Why should I risk upgrading to a format that might go obsolete, be infested with DRM and pay over twice the price for the movies? No thanks!

[stuartindigo]

And the winning format is......

Whichever format is used by the porn industry!!!

Stuart

[Earl Benser]

Not really....

... Many aspects of porn are of little concern to the porn makers
- plot, acting, directing, cinematography, editing, and any video
quality beyond that of NTSC TV. Porn likes to keep its costs low
and its profits high, so porn won't use anything better than the
standard DVD's. It's something of a wonder that porn even
switched from VHS to DVD. VHS worked so very well in basement
duplicating operations and for good DVD's, you need to press
them, not burn them.

Anyhow, the porn industry should make no difference at all in
the future of DVD's.

[markdoiron]

I Agree ...

i made a similar comment in a thread on another article. and it begs the follow-up question: how hard are the two sides (bd and hd) trying to convince the porn industry to chose ***their*** format? and what happens if the porn industry is satisfied with std def dvd's? my guess: if that happens, blu-ray and hd-dvd will be still-born for the home video market, and will be niche players for the computer market, having to compete against larger, faster, more versatible, non-drm-laden, and "getting cheaper all the time" usb hard drives.

mark d.

[skeptik]

correction

A TV capable of playing HD does NOT cost &gt;$1000. I bought a very nice one last month for $385.
A TV as large as your wall may cost thousands, but that has nothing to do with HD.
Whenever the bradcast change over finally happens, ALL TVs will be HD. At that point is would be silly not to have a HD disc option. But I doubt many consumers are going to take a $1000 gamble on which format is going to triumph, especially with the DRM limitations both formats will have.
I can't believe the industry is even considering going to market with two formats. They WILL fail and you can bet you butt they will blame the loss of profits on us, the consumers!